BA to LAS (why not?)

[jabird]

Vegas is the most searched for destination in the world, aswell as being one of the most popular US destinations (approaching 40m visitors this year - more than the number of international visitors to all of the UK). Containing 14 of the 20 largest hotels in the world, with the Wynn opening next year, it is showing no signs of slowing down.

So, why has it not featured on the radar for BA? Granted, there hasn't traditionally been much premium custom, but the convention business continues to grow, and there must presumably be some premium gamblers out there who don't want to wait until the Blackpool mega resorts open?

Virgin seem to be able to get away with charging a premium for their direct services - £500+ compared to around £300 for flights via other US hubs. The BMI service from MAN (the only US city served from MAN not also served by BA from LON) has already been extended to operate year round, and I believe VS are now going 5 weekly.

So have BA missed a trick, or do they have good reasons for not going there - after all, they are partnered with AWA, who have a good presence there.

[Jet II]

This has been brought up several times within BA and the response from the beancounters is that there is not enough premium traffic to justify it.

Remember BA longhaul are now configured to 4 classes so filling up the front is essential if it is to be profitable - there just arn't enough economy seats on the aircraft to make aprofit from just filling those.

[pwalhx]

Lets start a new trend then, all you poor underserved Southerners catch the shuttle to Manchester and fly direct to LAS from there. BMI have a great transatlantic service.

(Of course that assumes you don't want to fly on VS:O

[redfred]

not a cargo route either

[Goodness Gracious Me]

not a cargo route either Not so sure about that - I brought 11 tonnes of freight back from LAS on my last trip there!

[jabird]

Goodness Gracious Me,

All in quarters from the slot machines:O ?

Seriously though, BA fly to MCO, which can't have much non-self-loading freight either, nor is it much of a business destination AFAIK. LAS has lots of weekenders coming from California, with a great deal of effort going in to target conventions mid-week, some of which must have a reasonable proportion of UK visitors.

LAS is also much more of an adult, rather than a family destination, so surely the average spend per person trip (and therefore propensity to pay more for a premium seat) is much higher than MCO? Maybe there aren't that many Europeans who will pay good money to see replicas of Venice or Paris, when we can get to the real thing for peanuts, but the newer resorts are aiming for a much broader appeal. Or do they need something even more kitch (I believe a London Las Vegas has been talked about) to attract more British punters?

[BahrainLad]

I think BA have a number of 777s (5?) without the First cabin, only Club, WT+ and WT. Surely these would be more suitable for a "bucket 'n spade" route.

(Although why it's referred to as such is madness; surely there are enough high-rollers in the UK to warrant a LAS service in a premium capacity? Or maybe loaded London-ites prefer a slightly more....refined....destination? ;) )

[Re-Heat]

Ba are flying to the maximum number of destinations allowed under Bermuda II, so any increase by flying to Las Vegas would have to be justified by being more profitable than dropping another route. Being business rather than a pleasure airline (slate the strategy as appropriate...), and with little non-entertainment industry (compared to other destinations flown to), it possibly won't happen until Bermuda II is renegotiated. In 2030 when we all run out of other capacity on any decent routes and United is emerging from Chapter 11 for the 19th time in the last 8 years. Maybe. Am I a cynic?

Just to add - it certainly isn't a hub for any of its partners, but neither has anyone else got a hub there - have they?

MCO would - I would put money on - still attract far more money - even from simply tourism - than Las Vegas BECAUSE of the families who travel. Lots more businesses in Florida than Nevada.

Goodness Gracious Me - are you a purchaser for a silicone implant specialist perchance?

[WHBM]

Not so sure about that - I brought 11 tonnes of freight back from LAS on my last trip there!
Whatever did the forwarders find ?

Cacti for garden centres ??!!

it certainly isn't a hub for any of its partners, but neither has anyone else got a hub there - have they?

Sure. Southwest and America West have substantial hubs at Las Vegas. Which shows the sort of traffic there - not really BA's market.

[Shamrogue]

There are a number of 777's in the BA fleet which do not offer 4 class operations and are used on MCO.

LAS has a number of industries based there which have connections with the UK - Lockheed Martin, Raytheon, Microsoft (Reno) Otis Elevators, GE, Honeywell, Ingersoll Rand etc etc.

So there is a level of business traffic and these are only the obvious ones. I'm sure some of the gang at BMI or VS might be able to hint at the upfront loads. Also, being a gambling capital there are 2 types of gamblers, 1 of which enjoys to have all the luxuries, will stay in the Penthouse at Bellagio etc. So, while they are leisure passengers they will pay premium prices.
VS and BMI wouldn't upgrade the routes unless they felt it was worthwhile especially with 747's and A340's.

Shamrogue

[redfred]

was just repeating what BA's response was in a letter that there are more profitable routes and the revenue from cargo is not that great to start up routes there aswell as it not being a high yield route fares wise

[Algy]

US DOT today approved BA codeshare to Las Vegas with America West via New York and/or Dallas and/or Boston. Supposed to start 12 December I believe.

[jabird]

I thought BA already had an arrangement with AWA? They have signs outside the terminal directing you to their own dedicated check in, which presumably is for AWA connections to their own flights onwards to London. What makes this news so different?

[Anne.Nonymous]

The bmi service has started well and the cargo is particularly beneficial.

LAS is only two hours by road from LAX (which is nothing in US terms) and freight is being trucked in quite happily.

Delighted BA can take the view that the traffic is - not really BA's market.. :confused:

Anne :O

[WHBM]

LAS is only two hours by road from LAX (which is nothing in US terms)
Unlikely. Los Angeles to Las Vegas is some 300 road miles and if you have done the road journey, which I suspect you haven't, you will know that in 2 hours you are lucky to get over Cajon Pass out of the LA basin. (up which the trucks bringing your freight will be slugging up to 4,000 feet at 30 mph). Oh, and it was snowing in the pass last week !

[Skylion]

Simple fact is that BA have no new long haul aircraft on order,- ever. All recent fleet investment has been on the programme of replacing 737/757s with Airbuses on their marginal European routes. They there therefore unable to operate to any additional long haul destinations or raise frequencies without withdrawing others. The only solution appears to be to move remaining 767s from short haul to long haul and take back the 767s leased to Qantas, but the economics of 767s on most of their routes arent great.
The shame is that this leaves the way for their competitors, UK and foreign, to erode their long haul market share and route structure. Already their own route coverage in the Far East is half what it was ten years ago ( although the Far Eastern economies are back growing strongly) and other areas look threatened if they want to expand in India or USA. Competitors must be licking their lips.

[MarkD]

The BA consolidation of South American routes with IB should free up a few (not many) aircraft. It's ironic that Air Canada's strategy is to expand long haul ASAP as Westjet et al can't hurt them as badly there.

[Skylion]

As I said, BA cant add services to anywhere without withdrawing somewhere else. " Consolidating" S American routes with IB = BA withdrawing. All they would get out of IB operation is a few points of commission for seats sold under the BA codeshare flight designator. In effect they would be out of the S American game and IB would take virtually all the revenue if passengers continued to buy BA tickets,- which they would probably pretty soon realise was a pointless fiction anyway as there would be no elements of the BA product on board.

[MarkD]

But it allows BA to operate to more profitable markets where oneworld partners are not strong. (and take all the rev)