Afap

[Ang737]

Hi All

What are the pros and cons of joining the AFAP ?

Ang ;)

[Capt L]

As I understand it the membership fees are calculated on your salary. Does anyone know how it works for casual pilots?

[Ang737]

Yeah they work it as 1% of your annual gross salary + 9.5% for GST (?) + $27.35 joining fee...

I was wondering how this looks when going for subseguent jobs in either GA or airlines...

[speedjet]

Pro : I currently am a member of AFAP and have an outstanding claim. While all of my legal representation is paid for by AFAP, my previous employer is blowing thousands of dollars to solicitors.

I think that is reason enough to join, let alone if I was ever involved in an accident/incident, dismissed etc.

Also Loss of Licence Insurance is also a bonus

[ITCZ]

Cons:

It costs a small amount of money.

Pros:

The union fees are an allowable tax deduction.

The union rules state that they cannot disclose names of members. You can join, have full protection, and no one in the industry will know.

If you ever have an incident, get injured at work, are underpaid (and who isn't in GA?), are unfairly dismissed, are victimized, are bullied, are overlooked for promotion, are sued.... you have some of the best legals in the country and it won't cost you a dollar extra.

If you take on the Loss Of License coverage available through the Mutual Benefit Fund, then you will receive a replacement salary for the first 12 months and if you dont have your medical back within 12 months, you will get a payout big enough to pay off a modest house and go back to uni to start a new career.

If you are 100% sure that none of these nasty things will ever happen to you, then I suppose you won't need to pay union fees. Enjoy your career flying purple pigs in the fourth dimension!

Do a search on "AFAP" for the many posts discussion the pros and cons of union membership over the last five or six years on Pprune.

[11percent]

The hard working people at the AFAP have given much asssitance to many pilots over the years. They are only as strong as there membership base, so get involved. We need to stand united to improve our pay and conditions and joining the AFAP, going to the meetings and standing side by side with your fellow pilot (rather than stabing each other in the back to get jobs and advancements as pilots generally do) is the way to go.

Think of the 1% contribution as insurance while you start out working for the dodgy operators and as a contibution to aid future pilots once you are working for good operators.

Not all claims from operators can be recovered(esp. if they go tits up), Not all grievances can be worked out to a mutual happy ending, but having guidance from people with technical and historical understanding by your side when push comes to shove, is worth every cent.

If you never need them, count yourself lucky!!!

[WoodenSpoon]

Say I joined the AFAP while I was working for my present employer with whom I'd feel comfortable telling that I'd be joining-up, then in time to come I joined another operator, but was perhaps 'guarded' on answering the 'are you a member of the AFAP' question and answered in the negative due to not knowing his/her stance on this membership.

How are the dues paid? Can I pay them myself, rather than have an employer deduct them (therefore him knowing about it) from my pay?

It isn't that it is a big secret, it is just that one mightn't know a prospective employers stance upon union membership, and of course it helps to maintain a certain sense of decorum and disclosure of such a membership might prejudicial or not be conducive (spl) to actually getting a job higher-up in the GA food chain.

Thoughts or answers? Anyone from the AFAP care to comment?

Thanks in advance.:ok:

[Capt L]

But as a casual how can I work out my Annual Salary?

Especially in GA where things change even from hour to hour!

[11percent]

You can pay the fees direct to the AFAP. The only people that will know your a member are the AFAP and anyone you choose to tell. It can be paid yearly or quarterly direct from your credit card.

If you are a casula and seeking fulltime employment, clause 2.c.2 of the AFAP rules call for a minimum subscription rate of $60! if you gain fulltime employment, let them know and do the right thing.

Hope this helps. Feel free to PM me if you have a particular question you don't want posted.

11%

[ITCZ]

WoodenSpoon asks:

Say I joined the AFAP while I was working for my present employer with whom I'd feel comfortable telling that I'd be joining-up, then in time to come I joined another operator, but was perhaps 'guarded' on answering the 'are you a member of the AFAP' question and answered in the negative due to not knowing his/her stance on this membership.


What you have just asked, is an ethical question, and if you are mature enough to ask employers to let you command aeroplanes with live people in the back, it is a question that you really ought to be able to answer for yourself.

Is it better to lie, avoid conflict, and gain a short term personal advantage, at a cost to your integrity, OR is it better to be straight up, ask 'is that a problem?' and maybe proceed and retain your dignity and integrity?

So,

Tactically, it would be prudent to not blab every aspect of your personal affairs if you think some aspect should prove prejudicial in the future.

Ethically, if you think the union is a good thing, and worth your money, put the question back on to the ignoramus that asks it! Back yourself, as former Wallaby skipper John Eales would say!

But look at it another way.... have any of the fearful out there considered that maybe the contacts and friendships they will make with other professional pilots at bigger organisations, thru a professional association, will do more to advance their career than keeping secrets lest the nasty anti-union employers find out the TRUTH?!?!?!? Dun-da-dun-dun!

As I have said elsewhere, being a member of a union is LEGAL in australia, and aviation is a profession for GROWNUPS.

If you can't handle what two or three ignoramuses might think of you, then ask yourself, are you in the right job?

Will you also be wavering when someone directs you to take off overloaded or without enough time to meet last light, bend alternate requirements, etc?

[notmyC150v2]

The Workplace Relations Act 1996 actually forbids the question being asked. The Freedom of Association rules provide that everyone is permitted to join the industrial organisation of their choice and there are huge fines for people and corporations who try to force anyone to join, not to join or to resign from a union.

If you think you have been discriminated against (refused work or sacked) because of union membership you can either take it to the union or/alternatively make a complaint to the Office of the Employment Advocate. They have a large compliance unit which is responsible for prosecuting people who breach the Freedom of Association provisions.

You can therefore answer the question with a N/A and remain ethically comfortable and legally protected.

[hoss]

and if your still concerned at my KD interview/sim all the Pilots were AFAP members. The Pilots in the interview/sim for my current Airline(EA) are also AFAP members.

I dont know the exact figures but i would guess that 90% of Regional Pilots are financial members of the AFAP:) .

[Boomerang]

I was asked if I was with any union during the Skywest interview. When I mentioned I was with the AFAP the reply was that most of the guys at Skywest were with the TWU (or similar). Doesn't seem to be an issue really, when you get into airlines.