S.o.s

[Tanveer]

Hi guys hows it going with everybody? This is my first post at these forums, and so far i liked the atmosphere and help provided here. I a 19 year old male from Vancouver and like most of you here interested in Aviation. Recently i have started looking for schools to train at in the US and i was wondering, would i be better off doing FAA or JAA training ? Plus i had some questions about my degree situation.

My goals are somewhat like this:

Education:
Get a degree, get all my licensing and maybe get an MBA.

Job:
Fly for an international airliner (duh)

I am originaly from India, and am expecting to recieve my Canadian Citizenship anytime within the next 8 months.

I have planed such that the school i attend to can hire me as an instructor giving me anywhere between 1200 to 1500 hrs TT. MY plan also includes me going to India to work with airlines there, gain experience and then applying for Cathay, Singapore, Emirates or something like that.

Keeping all this in mind what would you guys reccomend i do, FAA or JAA or BOTH ? (anyother option welcome)
And Lastly about my degee confusion, should i do an aviatin degree or something else and should i get my degree first or after my training or while i train through dist. education.

Thanks
tj

[Rosbif]

Hi Tanveer,

I don't know very much, but I will give you my opinion on a few things.
Having missed a few boats in what can be a very volatile and cyclical industry, I can at least alert you to a few of the very expensive traps that are out there.
1) If you intend training in the states, make sure that the ENTIRE program is planned out, and that you have lined up ALL of the visas and work, BEFORE you part with one single, solitary dollar. Talk and promises are very cheap, particularly in the loosely regulated USA where you will always be at a disadvantage in a dispute. (You are not American and have NO rights under their legal system) Think about the disadvantage an American would have in court in India ! -same for you !
I repeat, DO NOT get your visas one at a time, and check with the consulate that EVERYTHING is in order. (J-1 authorisation "pending" is not worth anything and should be a red flag.)

Realistically, you don't stand a snowball's chance in hell at getting a commuter right seat unless you MARRY a green card. This is because your visas will run out around the same time as you would want to get started at the commuters - and at the moment there are around 6000 Americans, unemployed with ATP's and Type ratings on jets.

2) Use your best advantages to your best advantage. You are clearly an Indian citizen. Non-Indians are not allowed to work in India (except as contractors under special circumstances), so there is much less competition for those first turboprop (or jet) jobs. Court an Indian carrier before you even start training. Start a relationship with them TODAY.

3) Make sure that you get the licences that are most widely recognised. JAR is best, then ICAO, then FAA. Obviously you will need an Indian one, so find out if you can take the written tests around the same time as you take the JAR. That way you will only have to study once.

4) Take your budget and double it ! Just surviving as a flying student can be expensive. If you run out of money before you are ready to fly for the commuters, you will waste a lot of time, and your visas will run out before you finish training. The meter is running ! (at least in the US)

5) Find free money. You might find that there are Canadian options that are cheaper, easier to finance, and that allow you to stick around in Canada where it will always be easier to win a dispute with a school. (especially when OSAP loans etc. are involved.)

6) Get educated and qualified in something else. The most determined and hardworking pilots out there will all tell you that being able to do something else will help you through the rough times. (Trades like electrician are good 'insurance'.

7) Keep you sense of humour. You will need it.

Good luck.

[Tanveer]

Hey man thanks for the reply, that was very through and help full. I have looked into Canadian options. Pro-IFR down @ Boundary Bay, CFI then Float Endorsement anf then apply apply apply. Also considered the forces. So i can get my training and business degree here and then apply for the forces, by then i would be a canadian citizen as well.

Later
tj

[Rosbif]

You're welcome.
It's good to see that you are looking at the Canadian options. The trap is that a lot of entry level jobs are in Europe. Try to get the JAR situation sorted out unless you are sure that India is going to work for you.
Cheers ,
Rosbif,

ps. You'll probably find lots of Canuks out West (I'm not) who can help you find a really good school and plan it all out.

Make sure you plan it all, and that the people you are dealing with can be trusted.

Comments anyone? Let's get this guy on the right track !

[Heli-Ice]

In my opinion, you should be looking at options for you in Canada since you are about to get your Canadian citizenship.

Why cross the creek to get the water?

The jobs are up there and I think you will not be having trouble finding one after finishing training. The option to go over the border to the US and get your CFI and heaps of flight hours is a good one but then again you will not be known to the industry in Canada, or anywhere else, since you didn't train there.

The JAA license however opens Europe for you and its a good thing. About studying something besides the JAA ground training, even if it is distance learning, I don't recommend that because for a regular student like me, tha JAA stuff is a lot to take in in the time given and doesn't leave you with time for anything else while on the course. Then again you might be able do this with just one hand, what do I know?? :O Some people have.

Plan your way to ATPL level well and stick to it, then you will reach your goals. I've got 2 questions that you should ask yourself: 1) where do you want go? 2) how do you get there?

I agree with Rosbif, get educated in another field, an MBA in almost any field is a great thing and surely helps you when applying for flying jobs, especially with the Asian airlines. Many companies like their pilots to be well educated in other fields than aviation.

Good luck and keep your chin up.

Heli-Ice.

[Tanveer]

Hey Heli thanks for that reply. It surely makes me think. I was wondering about the whole JAA deal would i only be required to have a JAA ATPL to be able to work there or would i need something more than that ?

Thanks
tj

[Rosbif]

I may be wrong, but I think there is somewhere "out East "that does the JAR exams. Anybody know?

[Heli-Ice]

Your'e welcome Tanveer.

I recommend getting a ME IR and an MCC course if you go the JAA route. I think most of the airlines in Europe require you to have the MCC when you apply.

If you are seriously thinking Europe then you should check out airlines that have relations with flight training organizations. I think it is called apprenticeship or something in that way.

Here you can get a little insight on what is available to you over there: http://www.cae.com/aviationtraining/

And this: http://www.ccat.org.uk/news.htm There are more, do a little search on the web and you'll find something good.

Read this document and find out for yourself what you have to do to get the desired Europian licenses and ratings: http://www.jaa.nl/section1/jars/451854.pdf

It costs a little but you have many years ahead to earn the money.

I bet your'e going to have fun during your flight training.

Heli-Ice

[perceval]

study carefully your options where you don't need work permits , ie india and canada (by the by the forces is worth a try if you are so inclined -an f18 sounds good) .Europe for example is not that open to non-EU passport holder , especially at entry level .
Canadian licence is a pretty good one for any other prospects in Asia , Africa , ME ...
If money is no big issue , get a JAR licence (in the UK or similar) then convert to get the Canadian and FAA (fastish) and see .
good luck anyway .