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ATPMBA
25th Nov 2004, 12:31
Has anyone seen what airport screeners are doing now in the USA?

In response to the to Russian airline bombing where female passengers had explosives attached to their bodies airport screener are conducting pat down searches.

I have seen clips of the searches, and they are intimate. They include touching the breast, buttocks and genital region. Now they say when they go PERV they use the back of the hand, however, I saw a screener use the edge of her hand and place it right down the middle of the breasts and circle around the breasts.

Are they doing anything like this in the UK?

cheachez
25th Nov 2004, 12:44
Why don't they just ban passengers from flying?:}

flash8
25th Nov 2004, 13:06
At least the Russkis got one thing right. All physical screeners are female.... they wouldnt dare put a guy in that position... Russian men wouldn't stand for it... sadly.... we will.

ATPMBA
25th Nov 2004, 13:09
We teach them about inappropriate touching, but when they go to Disney World they will witness first hand groping.

Ashcroft, our attorney general used to to have a sheet placed over a statue of Lady Justice when he held a news conference because she was showing too much cleavage.

I'm for safety, my horseback riding instructor lost one of her best friends in Pan Am Flt 103 and my ex boss lost his 23 year old daughter in the WTC, but where do you draw the line?

eal401
25th Nov 2004, 13:22
Ashcroft, our attorney general used to to have a sheet placed over a statue of Lady Justice when he held a news conference because she was showing too much cleavage.
That is just laughable and makes him look stupid.
I'm for safety, my horseback riding instructor lost one of her best friends in Pan Am Flt 103 and my ex boss lost his 23 year old daughter in the WTC
That is anything but laughable. I agree that these searches are needed, however consideration is needed with regards to "appropriate" touching.

speedbird_heavy
25th Nov 2004, 13:33
I saw a screener use the edge of her hand and place it right down the middle of the breasts and circle around the breasts.

Are they doing anything like this in the UK?


Yes. Every airport I have been to, I have seen female passengers searched this way (by a female agent). Its part of a "pat down" search and has been for a long time.

PilotsPal
25th Nov 2004, 13:43
Leaving Glasgow a couple of weeks ago, I was subjected to an examination of such intimacy that it certainly warranted complaint but as I was travelling standby and needed to get to the gate I didn't have the time to take the matter further. My companion could hardly believe what he was watching. Her hands covered the whole of my breasts with a degree of pressure that was entirely unwarranted. I was wearing a fairly lightweight shirt and found the experience most unpleasant. On looking back as I put my jacket on, I saw the woman advancing on the next female passenger to pass through the scanner and start giving her the same treatment.

If there is a next time, I will make my views known very forcibly.

Few Cloudy
25th Nov 2004, 14:00
PPal,

Two things occur (no not those...) -

One - how come this was done in a place where men could watch?

Two - you still can complain - through channels is more effective than a direct complaint.

FC

Airbubba
25th Nov 2004, 14:01
Yep, these searches are unfair to women, they are being treated no better than men.

Time for media frenzy and lawyers, all of the local reporters are rushing to the airport to find someone female and outraged. Needless to say, next time explosives get through and blow up airliners, the media will say why wasn't the search more thorough?

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/news/112304_NW_rdupatdowns.html

http://cbs5.com/news/local/2004/11/24/New_Airport_Screenings_Bother_Some_Passengers.html

http://www.timesargus.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041124/NEWS/411240323/1002/NEWS01

Of course, as has been pointed out, this type of search has been going on in the UK for a while:

http://www.fox23news.com/entertainment/story.aspx?content_id=D782FB31-B4C2-448D-8BB9-21A019806E9E

DA50driver
25th Nov 2004, 14:14
I fly corporate and I am only subjected to this when I have to travel commercially, so my take on this might be a little different.

As long as there are people that want to kill me I will put up with this.
Get used to it if you want to travel, if not find a different line of work.

By the way, I was a pax on Pan Am 101, just ahead of 103 on the day it was blown up. It cured me from wanting to fly for the airlines.

Shore Guy
25th Nov 2004, 14:27
and then.......

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/florida/news-article.aspx?storyid=28249

Wino
25th Nov 2004, 14:33
ATPMMBA

Searches like this were going on all over the UK and Europe well before 9/11

They are appropriate to the threat level.

If you don't like it, you can always drive.

Cheers
Wino

df1
25th Nov 2004, 14:55
I appreciate that this type of search can cause quite a degree of embarrassment to women - and let it be said men also.

I do think we have to rise above this somehow, though. You may have, concealed on your body, explosives or weapons with the intention of blowing an aircraft out of the sky. I know I haven't when I fly but I'm happy to be searched thoroughly so that the authorities can be assured. I also expect every other passenger/crewmember to be subject to an examination.

You may associate hands near your privates with sexual matters but if it stops just one evil-doer from killing a plane-load then so be it.

Yep, these searches are unfair to women, they are being treated no better than men.

Airbubba, this is not a case of fair or equal treatment this is a matter of security. Besides, should women be treated more fairly than men in these circumstances? Of course not!

Perhaps with the advent of new technology in this field we can dispense with this type of measure.

Rwy in Sight
25th Nov 2004, 14:56
What is annoying is the number and the nature of the measures taken as a result of the after-shock of a terrorist event.

The goverments in general take measures that seem too impressive but have little real impact. I think the idea of intimate subjectives is such a measure since the issue who to search is difficult to define...

I feel that the world has gone mad and there is no end in sight.


Rwy in Sight

1DC
25th Nov 2004, 15:00
Are American women more sensitive to being "touched" than other women?
I tried to help a woman on to a bus in texas once by touching her elbow, she went berserck and if another chap in the queue hadn't calmed her down and convinced her that i was trying to be helpful I believe she would have accused me of assault.

surely not
25th Nov 2004, 16:00
Perhaps we should all travel wearing only swimwear!!

Safety and security is something which everyone agrees is required, however I don't see how groping every person going through an AMD is acceptable. The machine is supposed to alert the operator to pax who have an item which 'might' be dodgy. All other pax should be allowed free access.

There are developments in AMD's which would render this blanket groping unecessary, but no doubt cost will prevent its usage, because as we all know, security is only really important providing the solution doesn't cost mega bucks.

9/11 happend because there wasn't ANY DOMESTIC security in the USA, yet now we have to endure excessive knee jerk reactions because of this.

Onan the Clumsy
25th Nov 2004, 17:29
That is just laughable and makes him look stupid It was a bigger story than that even. He paid several thousands of dollars for curtains to cover up a statue. I think it was the half naked female they always use to represent justice.


[df1] I think that's fifteen love to Airbubba :rolleyes:


a large black guy called bubba That's just such an...odd juxtaposition. :confused:


Mods: sorry for my earlier comments

zeeoo
25th Nov 2004, 17:38
I think the simplest solution would be to ban defitively female from airplanes.
Afterall :
1 - planes are a kind of penis subtitute and a male's affair, no woman allowed
2 - the women's place is at home preparing good cooking while husband gets drunk at the pub with his friends and friends.
3 - women can't discuss high intellectual level threads such as footlball, hunting, the secretary underwear.
4 - the women must plan the house's life, so care of the children while dad becomes a mysterious hero.
5 - enlighted countries such as Saudi arabia showed the good way by avoiding female to drive cars.
6 - airplanes should be exclusively reserved for executive travel and we all, males , know that women are unable to have an executive potition.
7 - females can do things very dangerous like self-sacrifice, that is a way to kamikaze bombing.


Thank you

Damn Sh1te ! i cut'n and pasted the wrong reply...

Jerricho
25th Nov 2004, 17:44
Is it just me, or has there been an abundance of male chauvinism round here today :E

(Fishtits started it!)

AntiCrash
25th Nov 2004, 18:44
For those that are curious here is the link to the TSA page with the do and dont's. It is interesting that most of the things on the approved list are taken away from you if you try to board with them. I suppose you could print out the list and carry it. But I suppose that they can pretty much do what they want.

The other day here at KFLL the TSA removed a 79 year old felon with a 22 calibre single shot pistol. It was secreted in a book with 7 bullets. Of course she said she did not know how she forgot if was in her carry on.

:ugh:

http://www.tsa.gov/public/interapp/editorial/editorial_1050.xml

radeng
25th Nov 2004, 20:37
Does this mean that by conseneting to a search without necessarily knowing the degree of intrusion, one is agreeing to what is at least an indecent assault?

If at some stage, the victim starts to disagree and demands police presence for a complaint, what happens then?

Blacksheep
26th Nov 2004, 08:21
Everything you stated is true SASKATOON9999 but I trust that you are aware of what the search would be like once it finally began? Much better to cooperate and get to stand up straight and keep your clothes on. ;)

What puzzles me is what they are looking for? Even a small device or weapon should be easily detected by a light touch. There's no need to grope.

As to same sex searching, apart from the Doctor asking me to cough, any male who gropes my privates had better be prepared for the involuntary, automatic knee jerk reflex.

Wino
26th Nov 2004, 14:56
No they are most likely looking for SEGMENTS of a bomb, not the whole bomb.

So Wires, on one person, primacord, on another, a main charge an other, etc....

Or the parts seperated around a person.

it doesn't take much area at all to do something like that.

And I got news for you. All the gropings I received in Manchester/stansted were VERY personal. My wee wee has been touched probably by more men than women unfortunately because all 16 days a month in security they frisked me (I have surgical steel in my right hand and will ring a metal detector set to kill)

So they run the wands over you first. Establish than only my hand beeps, but then looks for non ferrous items and the only way to do that is by touch. They touch you everywhere.

Its not a man woman thing. Furthermore, the timing of this post coincides with an editorial in the NewYork Times that appeared on the morning this was posted. I think this whole thread is a troll by a journalist.

Cheers
Wino

Onan the Clumsy
26th Nov 2004, 15:01
any male who gropes my privates had better be prepared for the involuntary, automatic knee jerk reflex. Good point. Females have much smoother fleece :}

tony draper
26th Nov 2004, 15:34
Someone should invent a machine that picks the punters up by their heels, turns em upside down and gives em a vigorous shake,anything norty secreted about their person would fall out, problem solved no human hands necessary.

:rolleyes:

Paterbrat
26th Nov 2004, 15:56
Hmm Drapes, then again some objects in norty places might not.

To the whingers, just think of the real gripe you would have if some fanatic did blow up the plane you were traveling on. Boy oh boy, as you tumbled down amidst the pieces you might have as much as a minute or two to really let go before your TUC ran out if you hadn't been in the blast zone that is!!!.:hmm:

Jezebelle
26th Nov 2004, 18:12
Someone should invent a machine that picks the punters up by their heels, turns em upside down and gives em a vigorous shake,anything norty secreted about their person would fall out, problem solved no human hands necessary.


ROFLMAO!!!! :)

surely not
26th Nov 2004, 19:13
Paterbrat, I am surprised at your attitude. There is no such thing as totally safe security, therefore a sense of perspective has to be kept when deciding on what measures are taken to search people.
There is equipment available now that would remove the necessity for a public touch up by security officials, but it costs a lot of money therefore passengers are subjected to an inefficient grope!
All this bollox that is currently being hyped up so that the Govts of the USA and UK can inflict the sort of controls once associated with countries behind the Iron Curtain is beginning to sound just a tad convenient. In the UK, the Govt. sees it might get a rough ride with the Blunkett plans for controlling the public and presto a plot to crash aircraft into Canary Wharf surfaces!!
The clarion call goes up 'If you have nothing to hide you don'y need to worry'. Well I have nothing to hide but I am getting seriously fed up with the increasingly invasive security measures I go through just because I have to fly to places to carry out work.
If the Govts. were serious they would invest in the newest security technology instead of wasting it on bombs and rockets for the war in Iraq.
I get more cynical every day...............................






Wow, writing this has been a cathartic experience :D

Buster Hyman
26th Nov 2004, 21:50
Hmmm..:eek:...What an opportunity! I might just open a bar near airport security & charge a fortune for the tables near the window. No need for Foxtel!:ok:

JudyTTexas
29th Nov 2004, 02:47
Last week on local news... talks about Full Body Scanners "again"....

Maybe find out if those pennies really did pass through.. ;)

Windy Militant
29th Nov 2004, 07:57
Maybe it's this that they're on about
Thruvision (http://www.thruvision.com/)
The shape of things to come Perhaps? :hmm:

Paterbrat
29th Nov 2004, 09:31
Surely Not, I agree with you wholeheartedly, was simply expressing the opinion that a whinger is a whinger whatever happens, they will be whinging as they tumblr down to eternity.

2R
29th Nov 2004, 17:50
Would you turn your head to the side and cough please?
I really thought they should warm their hands first.