View Full Version : Personal credit rateing Catch 22

23rd Nov 2004, 22:24
As a rule, If I want something, then I save up for it. I have had one bank loan, and one motorcycle and one hifi system on HP in all my life. Other than that, the only loan I have is the mortgage. I have never once missed a payment or owed a penny beyond the date I was due to pay it back.

A while back, I went into a department store to find they had a offer on that if you had one of their store cards, you got 10% off.

I didn't want the card, but not wanting to turn down free money, applied for one. I was refused owing to my bad credit rating.:sad: :ooh: :eek:.

Seems that if you do not have credit, then you can't get it:confused: .

Anyone else hit this problem, or found a way round it?

Devlin Carnet
24th Nov 2004, 08:23
Dont sweat it! they did you a favour mate :ok:

24th Nov 2004, 08:42
I have been told to my face that more debt = better credit rating! By a bank!

My missus has this problem. She is a non-UK citizen, but works with a decent wage. The bank will not give her a proper current account as she has a poor credit rating. This is AFTER she was passed for a 90,000 mortgage!! (Which she wasn't allowed in the end due to her current residency status.)

So, she just has a basic bank account and can only use a limited number of cash machines.

I still believe she should try and apply for a credit card, even if she never uses it.

24th Nov 2004, 08:49
Ah the old black art of credit ratings. I believe it's a totting up points process. The balancing act works on whether or not you can walk the line between earning lots of lovely interest for the lender & not defaulting on loans. Thus people like Synthetic who pay their way are frowned upon whereas those in hock up to their necks get offered more.

Funny old world:(

Mr Chips
24th Nov 2004, 09:09
Synthetic you are on to a winner! Go to big stores, choose what you want to buy, and apply for a store card. If they refuse you, they will usually give you 10% off those purchases to make up for the refusal. You get almost all your Christmas shopping 10% cheaper!!! Milk it for all its worth!

24th Nov 2004, 09:13
Used to be a common problem in the forces for people going overseas on exchange tours. Solution?

Arrange a loan with no minimum period. Go in the day after and pay it off. Result - instant good credit rating.

24th Nov 2004, 09:21
Whilst lack of of credit reference won't enhance your credit score, I don't believe it will negatively affect it. What's important when referring to debt and credit scores is the repayment history, not so much the amount of debt. Although this becomes more important for different kinds of products.

A storecard application is probably the most automated app you can make. a single spelling error in the address can result in the address being returned as unlisted and the app is binned. It won't be reviewed by a mortal unless you complain. If your profile is stable and you are on the voters roll not having credit agreements shouldn't stop you getting approved for a storecard. I would guess that having a current account with a bank for a reasonable period of time, say 5 years, would give you as much kudos as a couple of low value credit agreements.

The mortgage example quoted by eal shows this at work. A mortgage is a secured product so the risk is lower for the lender. Also people tend to carry on paying the mortgage ahead of unsecured creditors when times get tough, lower risk again. If you think about it a mortgage app will be backed up with loads of supporting info like payslips and bank statements which all adds up to a much clearer picture for a lender than a few basic details given over the phone from a shop.

Thinking about it, if a lender approves 90 people for a storecard with a 1000 limit they are as exposed as eals mortgage lender with no security and no evidence to back up what they have been told. So they decline thousands of these applications because they don't fit the automated process. I know which lender I'd rather be though.

24th Nov 2004, 09:26
A member of my family had a similar situation to this - Don't suppose the department store starts with D and ends in hams perchance?

There are only a few companies in the UK that hold details of credit ratings. One of them is Esperion, but there are others. In that particular case it turned out that the credit rating checking company concerned (I don't remember which one) had had their data converted to electronic form by an outsourcing company in Sri Lanka who had allowed various typographical errors to creep in. The upshot of this was that my family members name had been incorrectly spelt on one of the transposed documents - this mistake led to the refusal on the grounds of a "bad credit rating".

In short - find out which company did the credit rating check and find out why you have been refused. You are perfectly within your rights to do this (under the data protection act) and you might be surprised at the outcome.

24th Nov 2004, 10:05
No, you're not.

Under the DPA, you are entitled to a copy of the data that they hold. The credit rating agency, eg. Experian, do not grant credit or otherwise - this is done by the lender and the process and the scoring are not available to you. Otherwise, it would become common knowledge and lead to fraudulent applications that would automatically meet thier criteria. You are entitled to know which credit rating agency the lender has used in determining the refusal. The is no 'black list' held at the agency, each potential lender obtains the data and makes their own decision.

BTW, requests for access are also recorded and several applications in a short period of time will flag a warning for most lenders

Once you have a copy of the data from the agency, you are entitled to have it corrected if it is wrong. We had problems because a previous occupant of our house, who co-incidently had the same surname, had adverse data listed and our address was flagged

24th Nov 2004, 10:19
Yes, you are right - Down to my bad explanation of the problem.

You are not entitled to know why you are refused per se - however if there is data which is incorrect which leads to a refusal then you are, as you say entitled to have it corrected.

In the case of my family member the data was incorrect - which led to the refusal and the company concerned were happy to say as much.

24th Nov 2004, 10:26
The two credit reference agencies are Experian and Equifax. You should do a check of the data they hold on you from time to time to make sure that it is correct - ID theft is increasingly common and this is one way you can make sure there's nothing on your record that shouldn't be there.

24th Nov 2004, 10:39
The oddest things do count. Read an article about it once. They assessed some bloke who was a navy pensioner, born abroad, who lived in accommodation tied to his wife's job. Lousy credit rating.....






........ sorry Duke of Edinburgh...........

24th Nov 2004, 10:57
Yeh, I got knocked back for a UK store credit card recently because I wasn't on the Electoral Register (got huge UK credit card limits and a UK mortgage though). I told the assistant pushing the card for her commission this, and she said I would still get the 10% off. So I get knocked back, and she says she cannot give me the 10% off now. Sometimes I cannot believe how thick I am.

itchy kitchin
24th Nov 2004, 12:16
It's a known fact that if you pay on time every time- you are not a moneymaker for the credit companies. Start defaulting, miss payments and see those offers come rolling in!

24th Nov 2004, 12:44
There could be one problem with applying for lots of store cards, then getting refused, but then getting a 10% discount.

Every time you apply for credit, a "flag" is put on your credit record. If you apply too many times, and keep getting turned down, it will seriously affect your chance of getting credit/mortgage etc in the future.

I learnt this the hard way, when I was trying for a mortgage a few years ago. I wasn't on the electoral register, so I kept getting turned down. When I finally managed to get one, I made enquiries about my credit record, and every single attempt at a mortgage was on there.


24th Nov 2004, 13:02
In fact, you can on-line and for the payment of 8 get an Equifax disclosure of your credit history. Its quite detailed and in my personal opinion, open to misuse by anyone who knows you and who has half a brain

Oh yes, and just a tale that 7 years ago when I sold my last house, I sold it to a couple who had never owed anything, always paid cash and for whom the mortgage was the first loan. They had a devil of a job getting the dosh which was a fairly low amount. Crazy world in which we live

24th Nov 2004, 14:00
Or pay 2 and get the information they hold on you in the post:


Under The Data Protection Act and Consumer Credit Act. :ok:s

Save over 75%...?! :8

Boss Raptor
24th Nov 2004, 15:07
Had this very conversation when my bank's 'account manager/financial advisor' phoned me to ask me what I was going to do with the 6 figure sum in my bank account and could they help - told him to dont take a jump and what I do with it is my business - as I still cannot get a credit card as have no credit rating as have no debt and dont wish to get any (in fact last year they advised me to take out a personal loan I didnt need, pay it off, and get a get a credit history, said fine as long as u pay the interest), been with the bank 12 years...

They have gone off to look at the situation of a credit card for me...t!ssers ;)

24th Nov 2004, 15:13
Funny thing this credit stuff. During my first couple of months in Blighty I was knocked back for a mobile phone (no credit rating in England), refused interest free credit thingie with Argos for a stereo (again, no credit rating).............yet managed to get financed on spankers Peugeot 106 GTI!?!

24th Nov 2004, 15:34
A mate who went to live in Dallas for 18 months was advised in the UK to get an Amex card before moving to the US. Apparently a credit history from the Amex Corp in the UK has the ability to smooth the process of getting such a history in the US

he only stayed for a year though before seeing the error of his ways and coming back to the centre of the universe

24th Nov 2004, 16:07

Securing a mortgage is relatively easy,even with a bad credit history as a house doesn't do a runner. the problem is that most lenders require 3 years traceable history in the uk before lending. Best to start with the bank Your salary is paid into, they always make sure they get their money first

24th Nov 2004, 21:23
Thanks for all the replies folks.

It was indeed the store beginning with D.

Know what you are saying about the best possible outcome, but I wanted the 10%, and the card comes in useful for making my model planes. That's the only use it will get.

Is it likely that the problem is with the address rather than me? While I was out in the Sandpit, the :mad: I let my house to turned out to be distinctly dodgey.

24th Nov 2004, 23:37
Had a similar problem when I moved to the US - no credit crad from the bank, but the bank's mortgage company quite happily mortgaged me $100,000 ... debit card included VISA, but wasn't actually a credit facility - but I could use it like one and no-one could tell apart from me. 6 months of mortgage payments and the CC applications flooded in....
I think Associates specialise in providing CCs to "problem" clients....