windy conditions

[bluebird121]

:uhoh: i will be on a plane flying from glasgow to stansted on saturday and am a bit concerned that it will be very windy on both take off and landing.. do they ever cancel flights because of high winds or is it not a problem for the airlines or the pilots..:ok:

[square leg]

Normally an airline will decide what the allowed maximum wind speed is, for its operations and publish this in its OM-A (general ops manual).

Then each A/C has its set of operating limitations (amongst others, WIND limitations i.e. Head/Tail/Crosswind limits). These are published in the OM-B (the aircraft operating manual with specifics for that type of A/C).

So generally if the wind is too strong and outside the operating "envelope" of the operation at hand, the flight will be delayed till the conditions are favourable or possibly cancelled.

The pilots are trained to the "limits" and above those limits they would be compromising the legal limits. In certain cases the pilots can accept small limit exceedances, but normally this is not done without a VERY good reason and being fully aware of what you're doing. There are certain limits that should never be exceeded, but which might have to be in an emergency situation.

[c-bert]

It should also be pointed out that for them to cancel a flight it would have to be blowing very hard indeed.

[JEP]

In the early days of aviation a danish newspaper wrote:

"Despite the strong head wind - the pilot managed to get the aeroplane in the air".

[tescoapp]

to give you an idea how much wind is alot.

cross wind limits which is the wind strength blowing across the runway normally is about 30knts some types more some less.

head wind ie on your nose isn't even listed sometimes.

tail wind normally not more than 10knts (which is only an issue at some airports which have lumpy bits on the climb out in one direction).

So with a 80mph wind on your nose you can go and anything up to about 30degs off the runway you can go. It won't be pleasant for the first 3000ft but you can still go.

Landing with max cross wind don't be suprised to see the runway out of one of the side windows until quite close or a firm landing.

tescoapp

[ALLDAYDELI]

reminds me of that picture of the B757-200 of BA rotating from ABZ in gusty weather, its on AIRLINERS.NET - cracking picture!

[TopBunk]

BB121

The latest forecasts suggest that it in fact will be almost calm until 6pm ( the latest time for which forecasts are available).

Having said that I concur with what others have said - the winds would have to be extreme before flights are cancelled - in my 15 years of commercial flying I ave never known a flight cancelled because the wind was too strong and outside limits. Cencelled or delayed for fog yes, but not winds.

[BOAC]

We kept flying through the two 'hurricanes' of last century!

The only time I have seen flights cancelled was when the remnants of Hurricane something passed through Keflavik and the wind speed exceeded the limit for the airbridge so the flights could not be boarded!

Unlikely in UK, BB. Enjoy!

[square leg]

Hi bluebird121,

So how was your flight, or to be more specific, the T/O's and LDG's?

Cheers vir eers,

SL

[bluebird121]

:ok: hi Square Leg..the take off from glasgow and subsequent landing at stansted were no problem at all . thanks to you and everyonel for replying to my querie.the captain was also very helpful , not just telling us the height , which is the norm but also saying to watch the roads because of the icy conditions.the return journey was a wee bit different in as much as the first officer never spoke until we were half way home and the descent into glasgow was a bit wobbly but it always seems to be like that.oh well back up in the air again on monday to gran canaria. am i a glutton for punishment;) :ok:

[chiglet]

bluebird,
Glad you have landed ok But I have t6 tell you that "due to the wind" Ihave seen an aeroplane fly backwards :ok:
It was a "Twin Pioneer" [stall 30{ish} knots], surface wind 35 knots.... Brilliant
watp,iktch

[Evening Star]

chiglet

Saw something similar over Newcastle once. Single engine light aircraft heading north on a day of very strong winds from the north and literally making no headway. Pilot was clearly not amused and put on what sounded like full power, but to no avail other than to draw attention to the problem and start attracting what was quite a large audience on the ground. After a few minutes of getting nowhere the pilot turned away and headed south. Imagine that aviator had a story to tell that evening...

With regard to crosswind, while I accept there are limits, from the pax perspective landing close to the limits can be a bit disconcerting <--- this is ES talking who enjoys flying ... those of a nervous disposition may chose to be scared. Can think of two memorable incidents at NCL, one involving a Gill ATR weathercocking at touchdown (for a moment it felt like I could see the full runway before somebody up front justified every hard earned crust, plus another in Feb on a KLM F100 where we wangled the wings quite impressively shortly after crossing the perimeter fence. Have no doubt both were quite safe, within limits and all that, but there is the oooooooooeeerrrr feeling when these things happen.:oh:

[bluebird121]

:) hi chiglet..i had to laugh when you said you had seen a plane flying backwards. then i thought it would not have been very funny for the pilot . although the descent at gran canaria almost blows you backwards.;) :ok:

[TURIN]

Have actually landed going backwards!:O

OK it was in a hang-glider and I should never taken off in the first place.:O :\

[bluebird121]

:cool: hi Turin.. maybe that was not the most sensible thing you have done but at least you were ok.that is the main thing:ok:

[wub]

Standard windy day landing at Edinburgh

http://www.pbase.com/glenns/image/36741305.jpg

[bluebird121]

:ooh: wub. that is some photograph of a very dodgy landing..i am so glad i was not on that plane..i wonder what the passengers made of it.:ok:

[chiglet]

I remember in 1962.......being launched in a T21 Sedburgh glider
At the "top of the launch" we were "hoovering", sorry Hovering, that was due to the cable..........holding us in position:confused: on "release" we drifted backwards, until we stuffed the nose down :ok:
Then there was.....no never mind, I'll be here all chuffin' night.
watp,iktch

[CosmosSchwartz]

bluebird121 - Not a dodgy landing at all, but some very quick photography!

Standard cross-wind landing is to drop the wing into wind and keep straight with the rudder, landing on the into wind wheel first.

Never really manage it myself but this pilot got it spot on! (Unless the wind was from the other side that is;) )

Believe me, the landing would be a lot more uncomfortable in a strong cross-wind if if didn't look like that:ok:

[Teddy Robinson]

seem to remember a report prolly early 80's about a little regional air display which was effectively blown out .. except for a couple of charachters in Stampes operating as "The Barnstormers" .. who got airborne and raced each other across the airfield .. backwards ... ah those were the days !

[bluebird121]

:cool: thanks very much for the explanation of the "dodgy landing" CosmosScwartz. as a passenger i find i am learning a lot through this forum and it does help when i am flying to know all these things as it makes for a more relaxed flight especially to windy gran canaria.:ok:

[wub]

Bluebird,

I concur with CShwartz, I have taken many pics of Dash 8s, amongst others, landing on one wheel. I chose the one above because it was probably the most extreme.

http://www.pbase.com/glenns/image/36778164.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/glenns/image/36778213.jpg

in this one the aircraft is on one set of main gear and nosewheel with the other main still airborne!
http://www.pbase.com/glenns/image/36778271.jpg

Incidentally, I used to fly gliders and have flown backwards in a Prefect on more than one occasion

[bluebird121]

:cool: well wub.. what can i say.. these photographs are amazing. i just never realised that planes could land like that. i always assumed that they landed nose wheel first then the other ones. a bit naive of me but like i sure am learning fast..thanks:ok:

[Ranger 1]

Nice photo's of typical crosswind landings, in dry conditions.:ok:
In my experience nothing beats a Shed for making landings in crosswinds, certainly for entertainment value anyway :E

[chiglet]

Landed at Manch many years ago. B747-400 wet runway, sleet and snow, just about on the xwind limits....Pilot slams it down, [carrier landing :ok: ] all the pax applaud, including the ex. Me, I just said "hey, that was an interesting landing, wasn't it?" In the Terminal, the queue for the "Ladies" was incredible.
watp,iktch

[1DC]

Many moons ago when you could fly a Shorts 330 from Glasgow to Humberside via Teeside, we waited at GLA for a couple of hours due to high winds and then took off. It was still very windy and although it was dark I am sure the aircraft wasn't travelling much more than a running pace when we lifted off.We then made the fastest ever journey from GLA to Teeside that the pilot had ever experienced in a Shorts.

[slim_slag]

What's the rudder doing in the first pic, not 100% certain, but looks like it's coordinated flight :uhoh:

[bluebird121]

:ooh: chiglet can i just say that i would have been at the front of the queue for the "ladies"..:ok:

[LondonJ]

well wub.. what can i say.. these photographs are amazing. i just never realised that planes could land like that. i always assumed that they landed nose wheel first then the other ones. a bit naive of me but like i sure am learning fast..thanks

The nosewheel is far weaker than the main pair so just as you are about to touch down you flare the aircraft (i.e. pull up with low speed so you will still descend but with an upward pitch) and you'll (hopefully) stick the main wheels down first.

[batty]

Personaly prefer the crab landing technique, especialy with low slung engines the wing down method can put the down wing engine V close to the tarmac! Mind in the winter you get a crickneck looking over your shoulder at the runway everyday.

Crab means both main gear touch at the same instance even on a x-wind landing. Hope I dont put the nose down first...a recipe for disaster!:ok:

And for Turin....Ive done the Hanglider trick too, not fun! That was how I got into this lark in the first place, no time these days :(

[180 Too Fower]

Slim_Slag,

Looks like a bit of right rudder but more of an optical illusion I think. ;)

[Milan N]

Can you send cross wind limits for the Airbus 319,320... and Boeing 373...
Wiht best regards.:cool:

[AIRWAY]

How about this for windy conditions (http://www.geocities.com/luispadrao/airlp_A321_TAP_borrego.html)

:ooh:

[batty]

I take it the 373 was the B737?

The limits depend on the runway condition, and if you are takeing off or landing.

On the B737-800NG we use,

In Dry Good conditions with a runway coeficient of 0.41 or better we have a Max limit of 35kts for both Takeoff and Landing. The limits decrease as the runway conditions deteriorate down to 8kts for Takeoff and 9kts for Landing when the runway condition is Medium/Poor and the coeficient is 0.26.

If the runway is classed as poor with a coeficent of less than 0.26 then Takeoff and Landing is prohibited.

The limits vary all the way down the scale.

Hope this helps......Over to the the Airbus guys.......

[Preppy]

Milan N

A319/320 - Max demonstrated x/wind for take off is 29 kts gusting up to 38 kts.
For landing, max x/wind is 33 kts gusting up to 38 kts.

A321 is roughly the same! :)

[Oshkosh George]

Now you're going to tell us he landed off that approach?!?!?!

[stilton]

On my fleet (756) our airline only publishes a manufacturers max
demonstrated crosswind of 30kts, not placing an actual limit.

Some of us would go over this 30kts in line flying as it is not a limit but of course you are sticking your neck out.

Anyone else work for someone that does not publish xwind limits
and what are your policys in their absence?

While discussing crosswinds anyone know why, when you go to page two of the take-off page in the fmc and enter wind speed and direction to calculate HW/TW, it deletes the take off speeds?

[Milan N]

Thank you all for your reply.
To:Batty
But i have one question.
runway coeficient of 0.41 Is it measured by surface friction tester or transformed by scale after tester?
With best regards.
:D

[Billings]

Hi guys,

You can view the video of the approach and subsequent go around that the A321, in a slideshow further up the page, made.

Here's the link :
A321 approach and go around, courtsey of flightlevel350.com (http://www.flightlevel350.com/search.php?action=search&type=detailrate&start=0&cat=0&where=0&date=0&sort=0&order=desc&match=partial&keyword=%)

It's about the 6th one down. Couldn't link to it directly, but there are some fantastic videos on that page. In fact, that whole site is a fantastic resource! :ok:

Cheers!

Paul.

PS...The video description says "Scary landing". It is, in fact, a go around

[Milan N]

Good link!!!:ok:

[batty]

From what I understand the measurments are taken my a Mju meter.

[Milan N]

Could you send me list of cross vind limit for the diffetent type of the plane?here ([email protected])

[bluebird121]

:ok: Billings..i have just been on the flight level 350.com web site and the videoing is superb. gives one a totally different perspective of flying..definitely worth having a look at..:cool: