ThomsonFly Approved Scheme

[sammy shamal]

ThomsonFly (formerly Britannia Airways) announces its Ab-Initio ATPL scheme with their training partners Flight training Europe.

www.flighttrainingeurope.com

Click the small flashing link at the top of the home page for details!

Should be goon news for anybody who is considering an Integrated course at the moment. It will also give those applying to CTC Mcalpine Ab Initio scheme another option of training location and most importantly their prospective employer!

Good Luck!

Thomsonfly.com Pilot Approved Training Scheme

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thomsonfly.com and Flight Training Europe are jointly launching our Pilot Approved Training Scheme and have places for cadets. Successful cadets will have a real opportunity to become a first class pilot.

What we are looking for are people who can demonstrate real commitment, and who have consistently produced high standards in their experience to date.

The ability to be flexible, consider others within their teams and understand the changing world of Aviation and Tour Operators is essential. We are looking for people who have what it takes to be commanders of the future, whilst never forgetting the most important asset – customers.

To be considered you’ll be between the age of 19-26 on 1st January 2005. You must have a minimum of 3 A’level passes or equivalent including two of the following subjects; Maths, Physics, Economics and Chemistry. A Graduate degree in Aeronautics or Engineering would be a distinct advantage.

You must have the right to reside and work within the UK plus a full valid passport with no restrictions. You must also have the ability to obtain a JAR class one medical.

Applications can only be considered if submitted via Flight Training Europe’s web page up untill the 21st November 2004 inclusive.

Candidates selected for the Pilot Approved Training Scheme will undergo training with Thomsonfly.com’s provider, Flight Training Europe (FTE) located at Jerez in Spain. The course delivered by FTE leads to the award of the JAR Frozen ATPL. The duration of the fully residential course is sixty two weeks.

The Pilot Approved Training Scheme is a self- funded scheme. Under this scheme, the individual will contract directly with FTE, who will provide advice on funding arrangements available to each individual.

Throughout the course cadets will be mentored by the airline’s designated Liaison Training Captain and training progress will be monitored by the airline. Upon successful completion and provided cadets have reached a suitable standard, they will be eligible for employment with Thomsonfly.com and for up to six months after graduation without any further selection being required. If there is a delay of more than six months between completion of training and commencement of employment, Thomsonfly.com may require some further selection to confirm continued suitability.

[StudentInDebt]

Ha Ha Ha Ha, Oh God how I laughed!!

The Pilot Approved Training Scheme is a self- funded scheme. Under this scheme, the individual will contract directly with FTE, who will provide advice on funding arrangements available to each individual.

Um, so that would be the same cost as doing it yourself then? Ah well there must be some hidden benefit to doing this?

training progress will be monitored by the airline

Oh thats nice, like a real Ab-Initio scheme, looks like they'll really look after you then

provided cadets have reached a suitable standard

Suitable standard? Surely if I pass the course I meet the standard?

they will be eligible for employment with Thomsonfly.com

Eligible? But I've just completed the Thomsonfly Ab-Initio ATPL Scheme. Surely I am more than eligible, smelly Tom, the poor boy who did the modular course, is eligble for employment with Thomsonfly on completing his course as is every other Tom, Dick and Harry.

up to six months after graduation without any further selection being required. If there is a delay of more than six months between completion of training and commencement of employment, Thomsonfly.com may require some further selection to confirm continued suitability.

6 months? I hope that anyone signed up to this is not committed to a job in Thomsonfly for any period of time if the committment to them is so loose.

I'm not familiar with the CTC McAlpine scheme but I was under the impression that the cadet effectively had nothing to pay. This BAe scheme is nothing more than the rehash of Oxfords' BA scheme where they promised prospective cadets that they would forward their names to BA for interview given course passes to a high standard.

Caveat Emptor

[scientifics]

StudentInDebt


What else do you expect people to do?

[StudentInDebt]

Not sure I understand your question scientifics.

What I wouldn't expect anyone to do is sign upto this course under the impression that at the end of it they are assured a job with Thomsonfly. Not least because 6 months or so ago Britannia/Thomsonfly were offering a full sponsorship with none other than BAe Jerez.

This is more marketing gimmick than solid career plan and I am simply pointing that point out. You're going to be spending a lot of cash, go in with your eyes open (many don't and can be seen here whinging about the lack of a job post course).

What do you expect them to do?

[sammy shamal]

ThomsonFly as with any airline (even ones who sponsor!), especially in the times we live in cannot possibly gurantee you a job before you have even started training.

What they can do is see a trend for an increasing requirement for pilots and try to do something about their requirement.

With ThomsonFly they are expanding their low-cost arm and (I believe) looking to increase their market share in the long-haul market whilst having a high retirement rate over the next few years. Therefore if things continue to go to plan they will need more pilots and those on the scheme will be their latest 737 or 757 drivers!

If for whatever reason there isn´t any jobs at the end of your training you would be free to go and find a job elsewhere. I also think that you would be in a good position in finding a new job as the airlines will know that you have already been through a tough selection process.

Anything can happen in this industry with reagrds to spare seats in the pointy bit and the only person who can decide what to do about it is yourself. But as StudentInDebt says keep your eyes wide open and make the best educated decision for yourself.

Sammy

[MAX]

A bit of a gimmick yes. The difference being if you dont apply and self fund you will have to go through all the application/recruitment processes as a complete rookie with 200hrs. Those on the 'scheme', who are successfull, will skip the DEP process and have a great job with great company.

If you are considering self funded integrated anyway.... you might as well give it a go. You really have nothing to lose, do you?

MAX:cool:

[Groundloop]

Jerez hasn't been owned by BAE for nearly a year now!

When Britannia sponsored their 6 cadets earlier this year they found the quality of the applicants to be so good they would have liked to have selected an additional 6. But funding was not available. They therefore offered to categorize the additional six as "Britannia approved". This meant two things:

If, when they graduated from Jerez, Britannia/Thomsonfly had vacancies they would be first in the queue.

Also, being tagged "Britannia approved" made it much easier for the six concerned to raise the finance for the course as they could show lenders that their job prospects at the end were better that the majority of self-funders.

So all that has happened this time is that the scheme has been made public and advertised. Okay it may seem a bit like a con but if you read all the info available it states very clearly what the situation is.

This is basically identical to the CTC scheme. With CTC the student is required to raise £60,000 and is liable for this loan. CTC do NOT guarantee a job at the end of the course. If no job is available the student still has to pay off the loan. Therefore the two schemes seem virtually identical and a lot of people seem to have accepted the CTC arrangement as a "good thing".

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

But CTC have a long history or getting something like 95% of their graduates into airline jobs. Whereas 18 months from now who knows what the needs of ThompsonFly will be? Maybe they will need you maybe not. Its not a con but it is very little dressed up to look like a lot.

WWW

[MAX]

TUI are planning massive expansion of the Tfly low cost, I really dont want to quote the figures. Therefore, I dont doubt the positions will be there. Soley, not a good enough reason to jump into integrated, but like I said, if you were considering it anyway.......

MAX:cool:

[BitMoreRightRudder]

I find it interesting that ThompsonFly and Brittania in their recent scheme both stipulate such narrow requirements in terms of A level subjects. The CTC scheme simply requires a few A levels at decent grades to allow you a crack at their process, and from what others have said, the Brittannia maths/physics stuff at their selection was much harder than CTC's 15 questions in 15 minutes. Flybe also seem to put their applicants through more of a mathematical grilling.

Why the differing emphasis?

As for the meat and bones of this scheme WWW has hit the nail on the head. It's more attractive than self sponsorship, to some people I'm sure, but it does look to be a rather poor unhealthy distant relation of the CTC scheme.

[Groundloop]

Why? Surely Britannia/ThompsonFly take on at least 6 FOs a year! They are not going to approve dozens of students. They are a very respected airline and will only "approve" a very small number. They will not want to get a bad name by "approving" lots of students with absolutely no intention of employing them at the end.

It is exactly the same as the CTC scheme. You are approved, fund yourself and, when you complete the course, if ThompsonFly has vacancies you get the job. How does this differ from CTC and easyJet? CTC will not take on any more students than easyJet and Thomas Cook expect to need 15 months or so down the line (unless you join the new fully self-funded, no promises whatsoever version). And in 18 months time who knows what easyJet's and Thomas Cook's employment situation will be!

From CTC's own website under FAQ:

"What happens if I pass the course but the airline’s plans for employment changes?

Our experience is that most cadets can expect to progress onto Advanced Training and into employment. However, in unexpected industry recessions, airlines may cease recruitment. In this event, you would remain in the pool of trained pilots awaiting employment and would be in a preferential position to achieve Airline placement when the situation improved. You would, of course, remain liable for the repayments of any loan arrangements you have made, but you may rest assured that we would be making every effort to place you in alternative employment."



I am not knocking the CTC scheme but I don't see any difference with the Jerez scheme.

CTC may place 95% of the graduates at the moment. How many students have actually graduated from the CTC ab-initio scheme? It's only been going for about 18 months.

And there is no use complaining about what entry qualifications are required. Every airline has their own ideas. If they place tougher entry requirements for one thing they will receive a lot less applications to wade through!

[BitMoreRightRudder]

Complaining Groundloop? Not at all just musing out loud!

I take your point but I would say the average wannebe would look more favourably on the CTC scheme simply because of the reputation CTC has of placing its graduates with an airline. Also more airlines in on the deal means more chance of a job even if easy/TC decide the price of potatoes is suddenly way too high or whatever.

I'm not looking to bash ThompsonFly (not thoroughly at least) as any form of sponsorship(:hmm: ) or signs of recruitment growth is good news for wannebes. To all those who apply for this, good luck:ok:

[sammy shamal]

If you are going to compare the CTC scheme to the ThomsonFly approved scheme, which I believe is a fair way to look at it!

CTC plus points.
1. As has been said before CTC will have more contacts within the Airline industry which is their main plus point.

However some of the advantages of the ThomsonFly scheme are;

1. Full course is carried out in Jerez with FTE including groundschool (CTC use distance learning on lap-tops via Bristol GS)
2. You won´t have the 7 year bonding to the airline of CTC´s choice (especially good news for those fortunate enough to raise most of the 60,000 STG themselves!)
3. You will be one of a select few rather than one of the hundreds that CTC have to find a placement for.

Really got to ask yourself if an integrated course is for you? Then if you would like to work for ThomsonFly? if the answer is yes then give it a go!

The rather sad news out of all this is that it looks likely that there will now be even fewer sponsorhip opportunites in the near future as Britannia were the last and only airline of recent years to offer a decent sponsorship! RIP

Sammy

[MAX]

Id say as this scheme is only offering a few places they have can afford to have a higher entry requirement? The company at the end of the day is looking for keen youngsters who are probably going to join the company for life. How many CTC placements can boast of joining a carrier they will see out a career with?

CTC is in the training business. They are not an airline. They also have their own selection criteria which fits in with their needs.

Historically Britannia/Tfly have been ONE of THE companies to work for with variety and terms and conditions etc.

You take your chances, just like you will with CTC.

Good luck.

MAX:cool:

Edited to add that 'yes' CTC have placements in Britannia but I dont think they are the ab initio sheme pilots. Also, I am in recruitment mode to boost my seniority. :E

[yeoman]

...........and of course they hold the say on who gets a job. There is no point in having a go at Student in Debt. He has a job. With BAL if I'm not mistaken.

[wubalaj]

Given the chioce between the CTC ab intio scheme and the Thomsonfly offer I would choose Jerez any day of the week.

1. At Jerez you will get a full time integrated course not a Modular course dressed up to look like an integrated course. As previously quoted all their GS is done with Bristol via lap-top distance learning.

2. At the end of it there will not be a six month wait to start Type as I believe is the case with the CTC graduates at the moment.

3. You will not be bonded on a reduced salary for 7 years during an up trend in the market when there may be more money to be made elsewhere after a few years quality experience with Thomsonfly.

Still think anyone considering self sponsorship should have a go. At worst you will be in a position get work if it all goes wrong but you will most likely walk straight into a great job with a respected airline.

[StudentInDebt]

I humbly apologise for not knowing that BAe had sold Jerez.

A few years ago I read an article in a flight training trade magazine about a new form of sponsorship for the post 9-11 world where FTOs would offer integrated/modular courses in conjunction with partner airlines. I understood that at the time of the article BMI were looking to get the ball rolling with OATS. The article mentioned that higher than usual entry criteria (in terms of educational qualifications) would be applied in order to aid the selection process.

I imagine that, since those considering an Integrated course at Jerez will be probably be climbing over each other to try to get a spot on this scheme, stringent educational qualifications have probably been set to reduce the number of applicants. Remember that Thomsonfly is now the brand name for the whole Britannia product so successful graduates could find themselves on either a mainline or lowcost fleet. There are currently moves afoot to make the terms and conditions equal across both fleets.

Although the CTC scheme has been in existence for a while this is the first time I've seen it promoted by an integrated provider (other than the previous less than kosher Oxford "BA scheme"). I think we maybe looking at the sponsorship of the future here; no outlay, and hence no risk, from the sponsoring airline and at the end of it they get a known, pre-selected candidate with a complete audit trail of training. For the candidate there is the prospect of employment being easier to come by on completion of the course although I imagine the pressure to do well would be very intense!

wubalaj - were do you get your information on wait times for type ratings, reductions in salary etc? Also interesting that you think people would want to leave after a few years as that does not seem to be the norm in Thomsonfly.

Yeoman - damn, what gave me away :D

[BitMoreRightRudder]

In response to wubalaj's points,

Indeed there was a delay expected for some CTC graduates destined for eJ to start Type but this has now changed again and they are expecting no delay. The reason for the change as far as I know is that the likes of Monarch are snifing around for a few courses to fill their requirement for next summer, and had their eye on the courses eJ had delayed. eJ responded by firming up the next few batches of graduates, though admittedly this constantly seems to change and will continue to do so.

The bonding is an issue that puts many people off, however the new 'Wings' format will produce both bonded graduates, and those who enter as DEP having had no airline pre-select them. Those who enter as DEP will pay back the bond themselves from the normal salary scale.

I must admit I'm a bit behind the times in terms of recent rebranding, I didn't realise that Thompsonfly was now the brand for Brittania and its low cost arm, as StudentInDebt pointed out. If this is the case, then what of the Brittania scheme that ran this year? That really did seem like an excellent scheme - £15,000 I believe for the sponsored cadets was the outlay. I hope that Brittania would continue that scheme as it is the closest thing to true sponsorship in recent years, and offered what I thought was a significantly better deal then Thompsonfly are offering now.

[CB1]

Does anyone have a link to the actual page all the info is on?

If someone could put it on or PM me I would be very gratreful. I dont think my computer has the sofeware to run a flash icon!!!

Thanks to anyone who can help

CB1

ps I only have 12 hours!!

[rk1006]

Does anyone know if this scheme is still open to applications? I cannot find it on the link given at the start of this post or on any other pages of thomsonfly!

[scientifics]

Anyone heard anything?

[PPWannaBe]

yep got an email with a load of questions attached, but I dont think i'll take it any further, i'm quite happy spending a lot less cash on the modular route and taking my time.

After all your not guaranteed a job, so my situation wouldn't change.

cheers

PP

[scientifics]

I clicked on the website and filled in the form and have not heard anything yet. Oh well.

[Re-Heat]

Thompsonfly is mising the following information as far as I can see:

Any information on the loan repayment terms, collateral required, credit checking, the loaning bank and crucially the currency of the loan (earning in Sterling but repaying in €uro is a huge currency risk.)

Information on the course start date, and the % of the course who will be taken by Britiannia - in addition to the course requirements that must be met in order to be hired by Britannia (in terms of exam %, first time or series passes etc)

Any further bonding requirements from Thompsonfly in terms of type rating, or any 'costs' associated with the mentoring of students while at Jerez.

Or does this information come with the e-mail that they send?

[the foz]

Has anyone heard anything else since completing the 2nd round of questions?

[PZL Pilot]

Does anyone know if its acceptable to ThomsonFly if you were to complete a modular programme in Jerez once selected for this scheme? I.E. prob got too many hours etc to make the integrated worthwhile.

[Groundloop]

PZL Pilot, highly unlikely they would allow modular as you would be out of synch with the other people selected. Airlines like to keep cadets (though anyone on this scheme will not really be a "cadet" in the traditional sense) together on the same course to build up an esprit de corps.

[PPRuNeUser0162]

The Foz, I received another "thanks but no thanks" e-mail to add to my mountain of rejections this morning.

Best of luck to everyone else who replied though :ok:

[ttoam]

Yeah me too,

Received the "thanks but no thanks..." email today. :(

The letter actually stated that they were "unable to process your application at this stage..." - a fancy way of saying it!!?

ttoam
:E

[EK4457]

Got an email through yesterday saying I'm though to Phase 3.

However,

Firstly, they want me to get to Luton by 0900 next Weds. This seems a little inconsistent since they are obvously looking for candidates who are team workers, leaders achievers etc etc.. these kind of people (most of us who are serious) aren't usually unemployed. The very people they are trying select for their 'scheme' will find it difficult to attend at the drop of a hat.

Secondly, the training is due to start in Jerez on 24th Jan. Now, I'm all for moving things on at a good pace, but this date is less than 8 weeks away. My employer requires six weeks notice! This leaves virtually no time to arrange funding.

Thirdly, they want £200 (two hundered pounds) before I even walk thought the assesment centre doors. The highest I have certainly seen for an assesment day.

looking at previous schemes that have run recently (flybe and britannia for example), they seemed a lot more 'applicant freindly' (did anyone else wait for 10 days for a reply to phase 2?). These schemes also asked for less money and actually made a contribution to training.

I just can't help but feel that this is asking a bit too much considering they don't contribute a penny towards your training and do not indicate how likely employment will be once qualified.

As it stands, I will not be attending as I can't get the time off. The sad thing is: I don't feel like I've missed out on an opportunity.

Any thoughts?

[joniveson]

I also got the thanks but no thanks email today. Quite strange really as I only filled in the bare minimum details on Flight Training's web page so not quite sure how they have judged this one. I am within the age limit (just), have less than 50 hours but don't have a class 1 medical.

Good luck to anyone who is going to the next stage.

[flying macaco]

Anybody actually going along to phase 3?!

Hope to see some of you there...

[rk1006]

I will be going on 10th Dec. Anyone elese going then?

[roberand]

going tomorrow (the 8th)! i think they have assessment days all this week and sran ome also last week

don't know how many in total though

[flying macaco]

I'm going along on Thursday (9th). Anyone else have that day? Interested in going for a drink to celebrate/mourn afterwards?

Would be interested in any feedback from anybody who's been along already??

Best of luck everyone!

FM

[rk1006]

Any feedback from those who have gone through Phase 3?

[the foz]

Has anyone got any heads-up on when we are likely to find out about stage 3 and by what method?

How did people find last weeks stage 3?

[flying macaco]

Got the letter today, thanks but no thanks...oh well, got to keep trying ;)

Did anyone get further than stage 3 out of interest?

Best of luck to those who did.

FM

[vikki84]

This sort of has something to do with this thread (I hope!)

I'm brand new to this game and have just been accepted on to the second phase of the CTC training scheme at a cost of £164.50. Now as a final year undergraduate I have also been applying for a few back up jobs all of which have had online aptitude tests etc before a test day, whereas CTC have just invited me to their testing day in Dorset. This seems a bit strange and a waste of a lot of peoples' time.

Has anyone attended this previously? How many people do they take on to phase two? How many spaces do they have to fill considering TC has just taken on 30 recruits a few days ago?

I have wanted to be an airline pilot all my life but have not had the funds to get a degree and fly. I don't want to fork out what will turn out to be ~£250 to get to the centre and then feel like I have been ripped off and end up with nothing (plus my parents are on my back).

So here’s the big question should I stay or should I go?
(and if you say go can you give me an idea on what the testing day entails please!)

Final question just out of interest in your opinion does it make any difference to your application if you are a women as I have heard varying views on this.

A lot of questions I know but any help would be great!
Cheers.

[flying macaco]

Hi

I think there's another thread called "the CTC wings scheme" currently on page 2 - probably a good source of info for you. I haven't been to CTC yet but I'm planning on applying in January. Think it's definitely worth a trip if you're set on being a pilot - there's not a lot else in terms of part-sponsorsed/bonded training, so go for it I would say.

Best of luck!

FM

[flying macaco]

Hi, did anyone actually get a place on this scheme?!

Just would be nice to know I didn't spend £200 on selection tests when there weren't really any places anyway. Maybe i'm just paranoid....

[the foz]

Well cannot quite answer your question yet but the signs are pointing in the right direction.

I attended the final stage on Monday along with 10 others, and the indications show that they require between 6-8 cadets so fingers crossed and all.

At least whatever the outcome though it's another bit of experience in the old bank!

[R T Jones]

good luck with the final stage! Look at it this way, theres a 70% chance your'll get chosen. Let us know what the outcomes are

[Empennage]

I have been accepted on to this scheme today.
Is there anybody else who will be going to Jerez on 20/01/05? Commiserations to those who weren't so lucky and congratulations to those who were. Although this scheme offers no financial assistance, nor guarantees employment (fat chance) I think it will be a useful 'foot in the door'.

If there is anyone else starting at FTE early next year, either on this course or another, do you think it would be worthwhile starting a separate topic? It might be useful to pool ideas on what to expect/take!

[rk1006]

I too have been accepted but am considering turning it down due to the lack of guaranteed job. Do people think I'm am crazy being given this opportunity and turning it down? I have a stable engineering graduate trainee job at the moment and am very worried about the financial side of things. Need peoples opinions!

[Viper2]

I would seriously consider keeping your present job if the guarantees are not very strong. You mind end up without your current job, a few hundred hours and unable to find a job as a pilot.

[chocky]

Hi there,
Ive literally just sent in my application to CTC for easyjet, as a final year student and a life long dream of becoming a pilot I'm looking for anyway to get into commercial flying. You guys seem quite pessimistic about the scheme, it seems like such a good way of getting into the business. You don't have to pay the bond until you get a job do you?

RK1006, are you saying that you've been offered a place training with CTC but are thinking of turning it down?

[sammy shamal]

If you have been offered this scheme and are unsure if you are going to take it. The main question you have to ask yourself is 'Do I want to be an airline pilot?'
It will be hard work getting hold of the money but if you can you have the opportunity to start training with an established school and more importantly get a job with a very well established airline that seems to have a good future ahead of itself.
It's a difficult decision to make, especially if you have a good graduate job. Just make sure you choose the right one, don't be looking up in 10 years time from behind your desk wishing it was you in the air.

Also with regards to them not offering you a firm job, it would be impossible for any airline inthe world to do that before you have completed your course. The fact that they are running this scheme is a good sign of their future requirements.

Best of luck with whatever you decide!

Sammy

[Re-Heat]

No sammy, I disagree with your first statement about that being the question to ask (to some degree at least). Not only is it not required to have been 100% committed to one career path or the other, there are serious questions being raised about the job prospects, which people are rightly asking prior to committing.

Also with regards to them not offering you a firm job, it would be impossible for any airline in the world to do that before you have completed your course. The fact that they are running this scheme is a good sign of their future requirements.
All the airline is running is some support, which frankly costs them very little. The job is not contigent on passing the course, but is just a potential job offer - dependent upon their crewing requirements. That is not very strong in my books, especially not where executives can afford to pay themselves the salaries they do...

[the foz]

Has anyone who has been accepted onto the Thomsonfly scheme received any information about finance yet?

I spoke to Jerez earlier this week and our details has been passed onto a spanish bank in London who are meant to be contacting us with regards to loans etc...

Just wondering as things don't seem to be moving very quickly and yet we need to be there two weeks today!!

This could get interesting....... :o)