Aer Lingus resignations

[hobie]

Willie Walsh along with the chief operations officer Seamus Kearney and chief financial officer Brian Dunne will leave the airline in May 2005 according to rumours today

Now I wonder what they will be doing in the future?

[Maxiumus]

From RTE news:

Three Aer Lingus executives resign

16 November 2004 15:08
RTÉ has learned that the three top executives at Aer Lingus, including chief executive Willie Walsh, have resigned from the airline.

Mr Walsh along with the chief operations officer Seamus Kearney and chief financial officer Brian Dunne will leave the airline in May.

It is understood that the Department of Transport has been notified of their decision.



Earlier, this year the three men sought permission from the Government to pursue a management buyout of the airline.

However, they subsequently announced that they were abandoning that plan.

It is unclear as yet what the three executives will do after leaving Aer Lingus.

[cliste]

Its all very intriguing !! will it be a Ryanair look alike except across the Atlantic,

or The Transatlantic Costings done by Aer Arran! will the 3 boys join up and merge their successful management skills with Aer Arann and expand its network across the Atlantic.

Its wait and see ??

Willie Walsh is a very talented Chief Executive he has been stymied by Governemnt and Unions so whats the point when he can start again and make a bigger success of a new venture without extra hassel.

Regards,

Cliste

[Farrell]

My money is on a new low cost carrier......

.....airlines like TAM in Brazil are modelling what Fungus wanted to be and they seem to be doing quite well!!

[akerosid]

This is very bad news; it must be a reaction to the incapability, lack of interest and lack of vision on the part of the govt to EI's future and growth.

EI has shown the road ahead to many airlines, so it's a shock to see them leave. What now? Who will WANT to take over, in the knowledge that the govt will obstruct, obfuscate and frustrate their plans. It's a very bad day for EI. And what of floatation; that must surely be off the agenda now for some time; the continual delaying of a decision on this, leading to the delay in the fleet planning for long haul may well have been the key reason. I sincerely hope WW and his team will say in no uncertain terms what led them to make this decision. :mad: :mad:

[CCR]

Well done to Willie Walsh and his management team. Its a 2 fingers to the Irish Government for procrastination on aviation issues!!!
It will be a big job to fill his shoes at EI. Best of luck to Aer Lingus and also to Willie Walsh on any new aviation venture that he will be involved in!

[Ben Evans]

Hasn't the current management 'team' presided over the most destructive a fractious period in Lingus history. They failed to catch the low cost boat, failed to grasp the opportunity of Sept 11th and have now bungled the whole move out of the public sector (rumoured).

The Irish tax payer deserves top whack from the sale of Lingus. The machinations of management would have seen them derive very handsome gratuities from a privatisation. This would be contrary to the tax payers interest.

They (three) are now free to demand and earn the remuneration that the free market deems them worth. Good luck to them, i dooo sooo hope they are able to find something well above average earnings.

As for Lingus trying to do a small amount of stand alone long haul and a small amount of low cost shorthaul. Well, you'd never write that business plan if you started with a blank sheet of paper.

[Tom the Tenor]

All the good work achieved by the staff and company over the last few years may easily slide away over the coming months with the bootboy unions jumping in to make themselves look important.

Not to mention the gutlessness of that self styled socialist Aherne and the other politico gougers of north County Dublin sitting on their arses and twiddling their thumbs busy doing nothing. You would easily know they were all colleagues of ex-TD Ray Burke.

In a way it is okay for Dublin as there is plenty of competition to chose from if EI starts getting lardy again and increasing fares. Not so good for places more dependant like Cork.

[MarkD]

Is this a surprise? We all knew WW wanted an MBO that would make him and his upper management colleagues rich while screwing the 146 pilots etc.

He gambled the govt would go along, they didn't, he's leaving and will no doubt get a very good settlement when most of us would get nothing if we resigned.

The government in seeking a successor must answer the following:

Is the future of EI in govt or private hands?
Is the future direction of EI to be a fullservice interlining carrier or not?

The government should state these in the public record, appoint people who will stick to the plan and thus the govt will carry the can if it fails.

Of course, this won't happen, the govt will fudge it as always.

[winglets]

The MGT team is leaving, allegedly, next MAY. This is not "take your job and shuv it" This is SIX MONTHS NOTICE to bully the government into accepting the "management buyout proposal" or else be faced with Willies gang in "opposition", or the threat thereof..
Why this theory? By attacking, attacking and attacking again they have achieved many of their goals with staff, but not all. They will try everything to win. This is exactly what I would expect from WW and his crew.
That said, it might work for them. Time will tell.

[Aloue]

Let's see if I got this right.

1. Bad gambling.

2. Good staff (but why?) and company (but more why?).

3. Bad unions.

4. Bad socialist (oh yea?) leader of nation.

5. Bad government.

6. Bad short haul : long haul division

7. Bad for Cork (but, I must ask, would that necessarily be "bad"?)

8. Bad grasping of opportunities.

9. But wonderful for our hero the young WW, who, having done so much for everybody and made not a single mistake has - for some silly reason - been ... well ... kinda outmanoeuvred by "the most cunning, the most devious of them all".

10. With apologies to the supporters club.

[FlyingV]

The last heroic captain of industry to rescue a semi-state company from itself by taking it private was Sir Anthony O'Reilly. We used to have one of the most advanced telecoms networks in the world. Now it's hard to get a basic broadband service.

I can't believe how naive some of the people posting here are if they think an MBO would have been to the benefit of their beloved airline/insustry/hobby!

WW and his team have done an excellent job. That doesn't give them a right to do what they like.

The totally simplistic view that private is always better than public gets on my nerves sometimes.

Remember that it is a state owned Aer Lingus that is one of the most successful airlines flying today.

Declaration of interest: I'm a semi-state employee (non-aviation)

[Idunno]

Mixed feelings about this myself.

He was ruthless in carrying out some of the more obvious moves that had to be made to bring the company back to profitability. There was no rocket science involved (to quote O'Leary) but somehow Willy fooled a lot of people into thinking that only HE could have done it. I'm often amazed at the naiivete of some of my fellow airline professionals!

Having been given carte blanche by the events of 9-11 to carry out the basic surgery required, he soon ran out of ideas when some vision was required. This has always been a trait of Semi-State Aer Lingus management (of which Willy is a product).

Success could have generated tremendous goodwill among the Staff, but Willy has always suffered from poor people skills and didn't know how to tap into it, or when to drop the ice cold facade he turns to the world to protect his fragile ego. Just ask any of the people in upper management - if you know them well enough they'll confide that he's an extremely disliked man even at their level.

Rather than motivation by encouragement or reward - both marks of good leadership - Willy style is one of antagonism and division.
He will not be missed on a personal level.

On the other hand, his myth is such that his departure will indeed colour the opinions of the money men who might have backed his management team and invested in Aer Lingus. Its now up to the government to stop dragging their heels and come up with the money...or a plan to get it.
I'm not hopeful.

There is one more aspect to this which I'm not happy with.
He has 'resigned' but remains in place until May?
This may indeed be another turn of the screw to force a decision by the government on fleet expansion monies.
But if they have accepted his resignation, and it really IS final, I think its untenable that he remains in his job for 6 months.
The rumours are already doing the rounds that he is getting involved in another project which will compete with Aer Lingus.
At the very least we can expect to see him join a competitor.
Meanwhile he has his hands in the till and in the machinery of ALT.

This is a clear conflict of interest!

He already got away with that once (the failed MBO suggestion) and now he's at it again?

I think he should GO NOW.

As General De Gaulle once said 'The graveyards are full of indespensible men'.

[neutrino]

Bertie WILL NOT put one cent into Aer Lingus before the next election.
People are lying on trolleys in hospital corridors, afraid to go piss because the punter on the chair next to them will take just their pillow, if they're lucky; he'd be slaughtered in the media in the short term, and the polls in the longer term; invest money in a "hugely profitable airline"(in the public's perception) for fleet expansion when the voters have family suffering for medical assistance in a thriving economy? Nope, expect waffle, stall, and the usual manááána from the primary shareholder. Willie and the lads will set up a low cost long haul non union outfit, Aer Lingus will regress slowly to its previous torpor, roll over and sink at the next downturn.

[akerosid]

Bertie doesn't HAVE to put one cent into Aer Lingus; the airline's message to management was plain: either get outside investment or put money in. They knew the govt wouldn't put money in and it should be clear to most by now that the MBO proposal was just a stalking horse, a means to prod the govt into a decision.

Once it became clear that this decision and the cabinet cttee's deliberations were being put on the long finger, the request came to invest in the company. All along, this has been consistent: Aer Lingus can't just be left swinging in the wind, which is exactly what the govt wants to do. Unfortunately, EI wants some much more difficult (for Ahern) than money: a decision.

As for his tenure; six months is normal at this level and as for going into a competing airline, that's not necessarily so. There's lots of airlines outside Europe too!

Listen, all the government needs to do is make a decision: set out what it wants to do with Aer Lingus. In this day and age, a large state owned organisation can't just be left like this. It's not in anyone's interest for this paralysis to continue and the CEO's message all along has been: either invest yourselves or let someone else invest. Bertie seems to have said no to both (or in Bertie speak, not made a decision), so in frustration, the executive team have no other choice but to leave.

I personally hope this situation can be rescued, not least because if they do leave, who would actually want to take the job on, in the knowledge that they will be obstructed by political issues beyond their control. And, furthermore, what do you think investors' reactions will be? I think this has damaged the airline's attractiveness to investors considerably. Still no decision, still the stopover, still GETTING IN THE WAY.

[glennox]

I have mixed feelings about this one also. I am a former employee of the company who was let go after 9/11. I was shocked to learn of these resignations. Some people have mentioned Aer Arann as a possible landing spot for the 3 gents leaving EI, I can't see that happening.

MOL was on a popular Irish radio programme yesterday evening singing WW’s praises and condemning the Irish Government inability to make a decision on a 2nd terminal at Dublin Airport. MOL is due to speak at an Irish Tourism Seminar being held today and the only reason he is attending, according to what he said on air last night, is to call them all a bunch of wasters who dither and never get anything done. I think he is right in this regard.

WW was utterly frustrated with Bertie, who recently declared himself a socialist. Bertie is so scared of upsetting the public service unions in Ireland. All one has to do is analyse the recent cabinet reshuffle, Charlie McCreevy to Brussels and Seamus Brennan (former minister for transport who wanted a competing 2nd terminal at Dublin) demoted to Social Welfare.

As for the MBO, that was never actually proposed. WW and his 2 colleagues asked the governments permission to come up with a MBO and submit it to the Government for approval, they were told NO! Can’t blame them for leaving.

My money is on the 3 gentlemen already having plans in place for another airline commencing operations in Summer 2005. That wouldn’t surprise me at all. Anyway best of luck to EI and to Mr.Walsh, Mr Kearney and Mr.Dunne.

[hobie]

Aer Lingus needs 1000 million dollars in Capital Investment ...... the Euro interest rate is 2% and I'm sure the Irish Government could get a deal around this level ...... all the Banks seem to be doing it

so whats the problem in Bertie investing 1000 million at an annual cost of 20 million? , if he's scared of letting EI go private then get them the one Billion Euro's they need :ok:

[Idunno]

As for the MBO, that was never actually proposed. WW and his 2 colleagues asked the governments permission to come up with a MBO and submit it to the Government for approval, they were told NO!

If thats true, why was it that Walsh NEVER corrected any media headline (there were many) which declared his intention to go for an MBO?

At best you might say he was trying to push the governments decision, but intentionally left the MBO idea hanging, just in case he got the support for it he needed.

A case of running it up the flag pole and see who salutes!

Mary O'Rourke was highly enthusiastic for it...and Seamus Brennan said he wouldn't rule it out (even though you claim Willy never ruled it IN).

[CAT MAN]

Have you all forgotten.


Willie is a crisis manager, he has no role in his new creation.

[The_Bean_Counter]

Bertie criticised the 3 amigoes heavily in the Dail today.

They should walk now and let him rot in the chaos which will come about as a result.

[akerosid]

Bertie, you :mad: useless, dithering, :mad: :mad: :mad: , obfuscating, obstructing :mad: prat.

It's Bertie's doing; there's absolutely no point in criticising EI's management. Their role was to turn around and grow the airline and this they did as best they could. Sure, there were industrial relations problems (and I'm surprised that the whole 146 pilot debacle is still alive), but it's because tough decisions were made BY AER LINGUS that it's in the position it is today.

Has anyone noticed, incidentally, that announcement by the govt official (and now Bertie) that a decision would be made by Christmas ONLY CAME ABOUT AFTER THE RESIGNATIONS? Up to then, it was the old "in a matter of weeks' and "in the fullness of time". Is it any wonder the trio were exasperated?

And what if our new socialist leader decides he wants to invest govt money in EI; how is Mary Harney (whose new Health dept is expected to get big increases) react to this? It's bad economics. It is really difficult to find a good side to this and worse still, Goldman Sachs predicted something like this happening; surely Bertie could have seen it coming, but no, Bertie was too busy tugging the forelock to his union bosses, sorry Social Partners.

I have completely lost faith in Bertie; let him join the UN or some body where being the "hail fellow well met" will work. He has a lot of qualities in bringing people together (as evidenced by the EU Constitution talks last June), but this kind of business, where quick decisions are made, are clearly not his forte. GO!

[Tom the Tenor]

Harney was on the 1 O'Clock radio news. There is no way she as Minister for Health will allow public money to be spent on aeroplanes when the money could be used for more hospital beds, A & E etc. Pat Rabbitte is saying Bertie is well into the process of trying to cut deals with independant TDs for when the FF/PD alliance eventually collapses.

What a farce today - the Taoiseach, Bertie Aherne tearing stripes in his gutty boy accent out of Walsh in the Dail and just before that the Tanaiste or deputy prime minister, Mary Harney singing Walsh's praises up to the hilt in radio and TV interviews.

Crikey, is there any doubt now that aviation stinks so much in Ireland? The Shannon stopover lobby are rubbing their hands with glee today along with the smug union types in EI and in the former Aer Rianta and as for lots of new services to North America you can kiss goodbye to all that for a long, long time.

[Idunno]

Yes I just heard Berties comments. Seems like the bridges have been burned now. If Willy was expecting Bumbling Bertie to beg him to stay and handing him another carte blanche...he miscalculated.

Bertie actually made a few good points in his speech though. Walsh made a major faux pas in angling for the MBO...he left himself open to all the accusations of profiteering that are now raining down on him.

His position has now become seriously untenable...I predict he resigns in the next few hours.

And I also predict this is all going to rock this government to the core...I can see the PDs bailing out after a major row.

[Bearcat]

AL i dont think wont go down the tubes as predicted nor will it return to the bad old days of champagne and medals, but what a mess......Willy went for the ultimate brinkmanship with Bertie left fuming to be put on the spot. This could bring down the Irish goverment as Berties partners the PD's want private investment to fund the required fleet upgrade. I have never seen Bertie so personal before and with Willys plans of staying on to see what ever happens now shelved from what Berie has said.....the lock on his door has probably been changed.....this is nasty times for WW who has been accused of being a one trick pony in that he and the hench men were only good at stripping but were they good at working with the plan.?...unfortunetly they never fully saw it through...... WW played hardball with the Berty teflon and its got very nasty.....WW probably did the best thing ever by doing what he did as there now is an end result closer for the long term prospects of AL. I genuinely believe WW loves AL and its potential upswing but he sure rattled the govt. If AL dont replace their long haul fleet they are knackered. I am sure WW and the boys had a deal done of immense proportions with Airbus/Boeing but couldnt finance it as they were stopped from bringing in outside sources which probably left them look like a bunch of boofons....hence their sheer frustration...
I am sure Mick O'Leary is writing/ sketching his as we speak to go into the national press congratulating the biggest didderer for screwing it up again.....Bertie by having his thumb in his bum in relation to the aviaition sector has I think really blown it. He has shown that he is a union sop, believes he needs their vote to the loss of progress in AL. Please Mick if your reading this put an a full page add in slating Bertie.

[DW11]

I predict he resigns in the next few hours.

Eh, didn't he resign yesterday, or was that all a really slick joke that went over my head.

[akerosid]

Bertie may have been fuming at being forced to make a decision, the one thing he hates to do, but what choice did Willie have. I have long reached the conclusion (and I think many others have) is that the only way this govt will make a decision on aviation issues is if they are driven to it and that's what the MBO proposal was all about.

Did anyone notice, for example, that before the announcement, there was no indication as to when a decision might be made on the future of EI - it was originally supposed to be Sept/Oct and now, only because the govt was pushed into making a decision, we hear it should be made by Christmas. That's the kind of thing I'm talking about. The sharp application of pitchfork to buttocks is the only way Bertie or the govt will move.

I have to say I'm heartened by Harney's approach. I didn't hear her (although I'll be listening to the 6.30 news), but I think this is an issue where the PDs need to give FF a good clout around the chops with a wet fish. If the govt falls, so be it. We can't have Ahern constantly getting in the way.

[hobie]

"Ireland will probably turn to the markets to secure funding for Aer Lingus, the country's transport minister said on Wednesday, promising a fast decision after three senior executives resigned from the state airline."

http://news.airwise.com/stories/2004/11/1100683988.html

[Idunno]

Eh, didn't he resign yesterday, or was that all a really slick joke that went over my head.

Sorry...what I obviously meant was - LEAVE!

I've been hearing various other snippets about this fiasco.

Apparently his contract expires this month and he was (no doubt) looking for a serious hike in his remuneration. Who could blame him with the latest rumours circulating about the generous kiss offs that some breifly employed Aer Rianta directors received recently (I know we all hate links, but you MUST read THIS (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2091-1357925,00.html) to see what I mean).

Anyhow, perhaps he was being given the cold shoulder on the dosh. Yet another incentive to go.

I'm aware also that this 6 months notice thing is part of his contract, so he can't just walk as I expected...but I think there'll be mounting pressure for him to go as this sinks in and festers. He's now a lame duck CEO - the unions will laugh at him for the remainder of his term, and everything he does or says from this on will just serve to widen the cracks between the PDs and FF.

As a colleague said to me today...Willy has been used to bullying and intimidating his employees now for several years, putting on his best MOL impression.
While it may have worked on the staff, he made a critical misjudgement in trying to do it with the politicians.

Look on the bright side...it probably means MOLs second terminal plans are f***ed for ever more if Bertie keeps this up.

[Shamjet]

Walsh true to form has thrown his toys out of the pram in a sulk.

As has been said above he was a crisis manager, pure and simple.
A bullie, who trimmed the company down to the bone at cost mainly to staff. He did a great job in this regard.. but with soaring profits and image he could not / would not compromise with staff on any issue to bring the company over the next hurdle.
The LRC do not appreciate bullies for the sake of being bullies. nor do they appreciate their rulings being continually ignored and questioned.
That all irellevent now...
What an fantastic prospect for an amibitious new chief executive team.
Perfect for any CEO who understands the importance of staff co-operation to take the company further.
Irony is a more understanding comunicative CEO will probabley achieve all the same concessions from the work-force by just appearing friendlier and focused on the same objective.
Walsh is gone , thank you and goodnight.
His pitt-bull Kearney is absolutely no loss at all.

Crisis management the only real option. Irish rail, an post ....

The ambitious airline boards of the world must be thanking their lucky stars they did not swoop for the three boyos , now that its clear they really would have made a drama out of a strong prospect.

The future....
Hangs in the balance.. i'd have to agree, Bertie now must make the careful decision he's paid for and holds office for....

We'll wait and see..

Best of luck to all who have sacrificed so much for the shamrock and didn't get out while they had the chance.

SJ

[Tom the Tenor]

One thing is for sure, the events of the last three days have triggered the beginning of the end of the current Fianna Fail/Progressive Democrat government. The PDs will not walk away straight away as the ministerial penions/TD pensions are not yet secure but once they are they will go before the next election, no doubt about that now.

No doubt also that Willy Walsh is a lame duck CEO and will have no credibility in the eyes of the Aer Lingus unions or the Fianna Fail gang of north County Dublin. Aer Lingus are going to have big problems ahead. A number of people have been offered the chairmanship of the company but they have all turned it down! It will not be easy to entice a good CEO from private industry so the appointment may come from within. If so, costs may easily get out of control again? Also, the life span of EI CEOs is not exactly long either.

Interesting times ahead all around!

[Idunno]

A number of people have been offered the chairmanship of the company but they have all turned it down!

Tom, wait a second!

You are talking about the Chairmanship of a company that is one of the few state airlines in Europe to be profitable, and quite spectacularly so.

You are talking about a job that carries a lot of appeal in that anyone in upper airline management has numerous goodies handed to them as part of the package - like free first class travel worldwide, for life, on any airline - not to mention a large salary, large golden handshake, and large pension.

You are talking about a post that is not that demanding, as all it requires is someone to 'lead the board' and leave the day to day running to the CEO.

Its actually a PART TIME JOB.

A nice little earner.

Yet, as you say...nobody wants it!?

WHY?

There is only one logical reason for that in my view...and that reason is none other than WALSH and his 'team'.

I strongly suspect that any leading light who has been quietly offerred the post just picks up the phone and asks around in his circle of high flying 'Chairmen of the Boards'.

My guess is that his friends remind him that the real power will be Willy, and that he may spend his time as an impotent figurehead in a company constantly at war with itself and dominated by an egotistical martinette and left dangling by a bungling government.

Not a pleasant prospect for anyone who really doesn't need the job, or the hassle.

You suggest a potential Chairman makes his negative decision based on Union problems?
Nonsense! The Unions at Aer Lingus are toothless now, all but broken by Walsh...SIPTU is disappearing up its own jacksie and IMPACT are far from being a militant marxist group.
More like 'men in suits'.

As you point out...the lifespan of Aer Lingus Chairmen...AND CEOs is not that long. Look into WHY that is, and you see a history of in house dirty tricks, management shennanigans and hints of corruption in high places!

You look at Aer Lingus' troubles and you see UNIONS. Thats your choice.
I look at Aer Lingus' troubles and I see a history of bad management...including Walsh. :uhoh:

Any bets that as soon as Walsh is out of the picture there'll be no difficulty in getting a Chairman and CEO?

[Tom the Tenor]

Sure, when Walsh leaves it may be easier to appoint a new chairman and a new CEO and I hope they are up to the job but I wonder.

There is no doubt that Aer Lingus has had weak and bad management in the past, the Aer Lingus of all chiefs and no indians, the Aer Lingus of high fares and the Aer Lingus of the sheepskin coat brigade - the IR£130 cheapest fares of ORK-LHR in the early 1980s with so many restrictions. How blessed we were! Today you can get a day return ORK-LHR for about 50 to 60 Euro including taxes!

How long will that last now? The clock may have been put back by years?

The Shannon stopover is the greatest aviation dirty trick there is at present in Irish aviation and Walsh's going has in it's own little way only helped to reinforce that position. Maybe not permanently but certainly for a fair while yet?

[CaptJ]

There is no doubt that the Shannon stopover has been one of the most successful protectionist measures in aviation, ever.

For Shannon that is. For everyone else in Ireland it has been a disaster.

As for Union Bashing. Bash away. The unions have aquiesed to massive job losses, to what avail? Aer Lingus is now exposed to the vagaries of the market because a cabal of senior managers didn't get their way.
Bertie may be wrong, but WW & Co were only self interested.:mad:

[MarkD]

My problem with SNN is not the stopover, it's that there is no attempt to create feed into SNN. Incentives for shorthaul airlines to do LDY, BFS/BHD, even CWL/SWS for west bound traffic connections should be in place, but everything is funnelled to DUB and hits a bottleneck because you can't have DUB service without SNN service. Since SNN is essentially depending on local feed this lessens the incentive to serve it separately, except by US Airways this year.

Also it's a pity that Skynet did not try SNN-AMS direct with a KLM codeshare and get SNN away from EI's LHR monopoly.

I would like to see EI or others try A319/A319LR/757 service to SNN and A330/767/777 service to DUB, which as I understand it is perfectly legal but am open to correction. Long range A319 services have been part of Air Canada's growth strategy and should be considered by WW's successor.

[akerosid]

I agree with your first point wholeheartedly, CaptJ, but not with your second.

Unfortunately, what Ahern seems to be missing is that EI is not in a vacuum; it is very much in the market. One of the luckiest factors in EI's recovery was that O'Leary had his long running spat with Aer Rianta. Can you imagine how much more difficult it would have been for EI if FR had expanded in DUB as much as it had done elsewhere? Very much moreso, if not impossible.

Now, with FR getting pally with the new DUB Airport Authority, how long will it be before it does expand significantly in DUB. As far as EI has gone, it's still well behind FR in the cost cutting stakes. I really hope it doesn't go down to FR's level of cost cutting, but like WW or not, the fact is that cuts had to be made. I don't like the fact that you can't interline on EI flights anymore (within Europe anyway), but there's a significant cost attached to that. I DO like the fact that EI has expanded significantly.

My fear is that if EI takes its eye off the ball in the costs battle, EI could suffer significantly at the hands of FR. This is a very real battle and I really don't think Ahern wanted to understand it.

Unfortunately, he has blocked every other avenue of growth; there can be no new growth on t/a routes (although the EU has more to do with that), there is no outside investment and until that happens, no decision on a new fleet. Is it any wonder that WW and co. felt they had done as much as they could.

[MarkD]

akerosid

Think blaming the EU for the T/A mess is missing the target. If the Govt wanted the stopover gone it would be gone.

[akerosid]

You are correct in that if they did want it gone, it would be long gone - and should be, BUT unfortunately, the govt cannot conclude negotiations with the US on this matter while EU/US negotiations are ongoing. I asked a TD to table this question explicitly a few weeks back. Regulation 847/04 deals with this issue and the govt would have to seek and obtain permission from the EU. Unfortunately, the EU has not given this consent, so basically we're stymied until a deal is done. :* :mad: :\

However, I have also suggested that since the EU will also be opening negotiations with Canada, we should pre-empt this by reviewing our bilateral with Canada, which is extremely restrictive and counter productive. Of course, no response and no interest.

This is why I believe that if any action is to take place, it has to be done with the aid of a pitchfork. The only way the govt will move on any aviation issue is if it is forced to do so, not that it wants to. :E :E

[Idunno]

Wunnerful Willy has sat back and watched competitor airlines move in on routes we should be doing.

For instance:

South Africa - Toolin Travel - (a travel agent 'fer chrissake!!) - launched on the route and is on its second succesful year. Willy faffed around last Winter, hinting he was planning a service, then pulling back and blaming THE STAFF for its demise. What utter crapology!

Dubai: Its a route that is just CRYING OUT for a service, yet we are still pissing about while Emirates gets more serious about doing it with every day that passes.

Orlando: YES I KNOW we are starting the route this Winter, but WHY weren't we in there all Summer? We've been wasting an aircraft on Baltimore instead of going where the folks wanna go...Florida.

The 'Charter Operation' angle is being used to get around the bilateral for Orlando. Why can't that be done with other routes?

I remember Willy telling us back in 2001 that we have too many eggs in one basket by concentrating ALL our long haul interests in the US, and that he would be looking East for future long haul growth.

WHERE IS IT???

The EU/US bilateral is not the beginning and end of this.
Willys lack of real vision is the problem.

He'd rather fight with the staff over the price of a ham sandwich than go out and attack the market.

[MarkD]

Farting around with BWI because:

1 - It has "Washington" after its name but without the paranoia that surrounds flying into IAD and DCA.

2 - I seem to remember an Oirish mayor of Baltimore when Mary Mac went visiting.

[Idunno]

Mark if you think those are good reasons for an airline to fritter away its resources, its as well you aren't running ALT.

Does Mick O'Leary fly into Montpellier because there's a French-Irish 'monsieur le maire'?
Like hell...he goes where the business is.

My neighbours and their kids all wanna go to DISNEYLAND for their holidays...not Washington DC.

The mass market is interested in Florida, or South Africa!...the market into Baltimore is a niche one only.

And another thing...where was this figure of '1bn euros required investment for fleet replacement/expansion' derived from?

If Aer Lingus needs new aircraft why can't they be leased instead of bought? Why do we need to OWN 1bn euros in aircraft when there are plenty of cheap aircraft on the lease market?

A conspiracy theorist could suggest that Willy wants to boost the net assetts of the company at the States expense, so that when its value has jumped by 1bn above where it stands now - he stood to make an even bigger grab of taxpayers cash if it was sold, floated, whatever.
I understand that in a typical company flotation, the top management share is normally around 3%...that would be 30 Million euros for the Three Amigos.
A nice round number, easily spilt 3 ways.

The more likely explanation is that the 1bn figure was just a huge random number meant to scare the bejaysus out of Bertie and get him to offload the problem toute suite by allowing the MBO.
In that case Willy would 'inherit' an asett worth around 600 Million euros (an even NICER number) and a free hand to do what the hell he wanted with it.
Assett stripping anyone?

Either way, its a win-win for Willy.
The boy who likes to WIN.

[MarkD]

Idunno

presume you missed the sarcasm in my post... must use more emoticons...

My point about Washington was that no doubt there's a bit of "we have to serve Washington" State airline type stuff still in ALT. The Irish connection made it more feasible to use BWI as well as the bilateral issue which would have excluded IAD anyway.

[Idunno]

OK...my IRONY detector was a bit slow there. My faith in you is restored!;)

Seriously though...why this 1 Billion Euro figure?
We don't even own our current A330 fleet!
They are all leased.

[Tom the Tenor]

The 1 Billion Euro figure is there to make us all feel dizzy!

Think EI might be missing out again shortly. Some speculation elsewhere that AA might be making their minds up by next week about 757 services to Dublin and Shannon. Boston has been mentioned for one. Sure, it is obvious really what with the expansion CO is doing with launching more 757 services to Europe from Newark and if it happens that CO take on board some of the ATA 757-300s it will release even more CO 757-200s for even more new destinations across the Atlantic.

My one hope had been that EI under Walsh's leadership would in time have a go at a North Atlantic service from Cork. Whom ever will take charge now as EI CEO next May I do not see any prospect of anything like a Cork-USA flight for a long time. Do not get me wrong I am not obscessed about US routes from Cork, I just look on it as being a potential new market that needs trying.