Who would you fly with - BA, Virgin?

[scameron77]

Slightly off topic and really just a personal indulgence but wouldn't mind a bit of feedback as to who is the best carrier to fly to the US with. I'm just looking at booking my flight to LAX to start in early Jan next year and would appreciate it if anyone could give me an idea of who they think is best out of BA, Virgin and any of the American carriers for food, films, comfyness, all round customer service.

Apologies but it is kinda relevant to this forum, in a round a bout sort of a way :)

Stephen

[thebeast]

easy..... the cheapest

[mattd2k]

Stephen,

I don't what a/c BA use into LAX and I haven't yet had the pleasure of Virgin's A340's, but having made a couple of flights with both BA and Virgin between the UK and Florida over the past 12 months, I would say that for comfort I would go with BA everytime. The 777's they operate into Orlando are much more roomy and comfortable than Virgin's 747's.

However, I would say Virgin certainly have the upper hand in the in-flight entertainment department. Much bigger seat back screens and far more films and games to choose from to keep you amused. :D

OK, so we probably have a tie at the moment between the two. Now comes the decider, the FA's. Here there is only one choice in my opinion. ;)

Well, I don't know if this helps much, probably not, but as the beast has already said ... the cheapest is always a good option.

[englishal]

The 747-400 is more comfortable. Both have in-seat entertainment, and offer free booze on the flight (unlike the American carriers).

Just bought a ticket to LA in Feb, £286 inc. tax on BA LHR direct, so that decided it for me!

[G-DANM]

Having flown to Florida with BA, Virgin, American and My Travel I can certainly recommend American Airlines. 31 inches of leg room makes a serious difference and the 2-3-2 layout of the 777 means the plane feels more spacious as well. American have made a point of not cramming seats into Coach and I think it works for a cheaper ticket than Virgin and BA.(Entertainment and Food are top notch as well, including the customer service).

I don't recommend going with the cheaper carriers such as MYT or Brittania as they cram you in with crap food and dirty planes. The normal eight hour flight seemed like about ten when I went with MYT.

[GMIMA]

fly virgin defo - its a fun and friendly airline. flew to jfk earlier on this year.

GMIMA

[quifflegend]

flew with Virgin to orlando back in April. entertainment was really good, couldnt stop playing on the super nintendo system thats built into the control, was addicted to Mario Word for the whole flight, played a bit of street fighter too, lol. Service was great to, with the odd muffin and ice lolly brought round to nible on...fantastic. Flew BA years ago, and although they are good, i would go for Virgin. cost is the obvious downside, think i paid about £450 last minute. All depends whether you want to be cramped up on My travel with no computer to play and limited movies, or pay the extra for a more enjoyable flight.

[FormerFlyer]

DANM

I think you'll find you were either in J class with a 2-3-2 config on a 777 or you were on a 767 seeing how you say the legroom was only 31".

But AA now have "more room through coach" so you'll find the seat pitch goes up to (about) 34" in economy.

To answer the original question - if you want space at a not too hideous fare (in econ) then I'd go AA. If it's frills & great staff I'd go BA. If you can afford it then VS Premium Economy.

cheers ;)

FF

[maggioneato]

BA crew disappeared for many hours on the flight we were on to LA from Heathrow, if you wanted a drink you had to go and get it yourself from the galley, not a clue where they went. I have crossed the pond 14 times with various carriers, thought BA the worst by far, as soon as we were airborne on the return flight the lights were dimmed, the blinds drawn down, they were tying to settle us down to sleep, it was only 5 PM. Not impressed with other things either. Havn't flown long haul with them since, and wouldn't even if they were cheaper. Virgin gets my vote, no complaints at all.

[slim_slag]

They are all much the same service wise in the back, not very good! But they all appear to be equally safe and that's what matters.

If you think you can rack up 50,000 miles on a single alliance next year then join United Mileage Plus and fly United. That will give you the best upgrade chances on dirt cheap tickets, access to business class check in, lounges, and best frequent flier mileage accumulation on dirt cheap tickets. If, like >97% of the flying public you don't fly 50,000 miles a year, fly the cheapest.

[Globaliser]

FormerFlyer:
DANM

I think you'll find you were either in J class with a 2-3-2 config on a 777 or you were on a 767 seeing how you say the legroom was only 31".That's right - AA's 777s are configured 2-5-2. It's not much fun being in the middle of the 5.

BA's World Traveller Plus is a good equivalent to VS' Premium Economy. Don't know much about VS pricing, but BA's best valid WT+ fare is usually £200 per sector over the best valid economy fare - although there are times when you can't buy the best economy fare so the effective supplement for the flight is less than that. At fare sale times, the best WT+ fare often comes down to a supplement of £150 per sector.

[strake]

After 10 years flying with BA and holding a Gold card, I became so fed-up with being treated like SLF fodder, I decamped to Virgin.

What an amazing difference. I have flown 4 times on Upper Class and it has been excellent. I have a trip to Tokyo in two weeks accompanied by my wife (for free) which gives me Gold status AND I will have 120,000 miles on my account.

Nice poeple, great service and a feeling that you are valued

[pilotwolf]

Virgin EVERY time!

Rather walk/swim than fly BA transalantic again :(

PW

[timzsta]

I have flown BA over the pond a few times and a couple of other long hual trips. Never had anything to complain about. But maybe I just like the old fashioned things like the 45 mins BBC News 24 programme they show before the feature films (whilst offering you a nice cup of English tea). LAX-LHR was about 9hrs 45(fav winds). Had evening meal after take off, followed by drinks. Then lights down. Woken about 90mins before landing for breakfast leaving a healthy 7hrs for a kip inbetween.

[bealine]

For regular Ppruners, this topic comes round every so often and usually ends up as a "Slag British Airways off!" posting.

Whether you enjoy your flight or not is partly within the airline's control, and partly not!

1. Crew behaviour - (a) Due to the increase in "air-rage" incdents, the attempted cockpit storming of our LGW-NBO service and 09/11, both ground staff and air crew have to be alert to the actions of our travellers. Sometimes, this wariness may be viewed by the customer as "aloofness".

(b) All airlines have good crew members and bad. Sometimes, there are personality clashes between crew members and, although professionalism should not allow minor disagreements to interfere with cabin service, sometimes it does!


(c) There ain't no polite way to refuse an upgrade request (and at least 90% of our passengers ask for one). However one answers the "U" question, the customer is bound to feel a little rebuffed and this rejection can get the flight off to a bad start!


2. Passenger behaviour - Being strapped into a seat, only a few inches from a complete stranger, is an unnerving experience. When said stranger has some annoying habits, this minor source of irritation takes on major importance. If the last seats available happen to be the centre ones, you're in a negative frame of mind even before pushback!

At the end of the day, we get just as many compliments as we do brickbats! The "Bearded One's" airline does have the edge on us with IFE - but as personal DVD players are now available at less than £100, this will become of less importance in a year or two - but overall the two airlines are very similar.

Follow your instinct and let the fare decide!

[slim_slag]

I hate to say it Bealine, but At the end of the day, we get just as many compliments as we do brickbats! is not a good place to be for a company that is hugely reliant on a good customer service image.

Are we talking economy or premium seats? There are big differences between carriers when it comes to business/first class. However a business class seat on the worst carrier is usually a lot lot better than the best economy seat on the best carrier. So if you fly the miles, get into a frequent flier scheme where you get the op-upgrades and upgrade certificates valid on cheap tickets.

If it's economy class give the airline as little of your money as possible, you know they will be doing the same to you when it comes to providing service.

[bealine]

slim_slag - You're right.....however, Customer Service now takes second place behind safety and security. Since we had that prize tw4t storm the cockpit of our LGW-NBO service, we will not allow a repeat performance! If this makes customer service attitudes appear a trifle aloof, then so be it! The aircraft are all going out full anyway - even at the moment whilst we have a "slack" season before the Christmas rush - so we must be doing something right (and, before you say anything, our fares are about 20% higher than US carriers and, usually, about 5% higher than the "Bearded One's" excellent carrier!

[SLF3]

The only reason BA are getting away with premium fares out of Heathrow is because you have reduced capacity, control far to many slots and have anti competitive alliances on some of your best routes through OneWorld. The natural consequence of this is complacency and overcharging. The BA Club World product is no longer best in class for seats, IFE, food or service. Why? Because it faces very limited competition. The complacency your post implies says a lot about what is wrong with BA!

[Ozzy]

Well the Ozzy clan is flying to LHR from BOS tomorrow and we are going Club. I am looking forward to it, but I have heard nasty things about the pre flight meal in the Club at Logan. We are on the 20:55 and as I understand there is no meal served in Club on that flight (but there is in coach). Will be interesting!

Ozzy

[slim_slag]

I thought BA was full because they offloaded loads of seats on the cheap via the Daily Mail. Wait until BMI start flying to LAX, should give BA cause for concern.

[redfred]

BA are full because of their reputation, safety record, security, good name...BMI...dont make me laugh :O

[slim_slag]

redfred, is that more complacency from BA?? Always a bad idea to underestimate one's opposition. "reputation, safety record, security and good name" is a given when selecting a transatlantic airline, and no longer good enough to differentiate. IMO

[Memetic]

Based on recent past experince i'd go for Virgin. Better IFE and crew who go an extra two miles when they see you need help.

I have however flown BA Trans Atlantic less than I have Virgin so have fewer instances to base my views on however I have never enjoyed BA it quite as much as Virgin for some reason.

Don't take that as anti BA, this year they have been outstanding in customer service, in depth, on short haul in Europe.


Memetic

P.S. For check in, Continental have it sussed at Gatwick, the flights have been good too!

[B Sousa]

I fly Virgin because of convience from locations near me. BA is not there. I do still dream of that flight some time ago in BA Business. I actually felt like I owned the airline. Superb service and food.

[bealine]

I thought BA was full because they offloaded loads of seats on the cheap via the Daily Mail. Wait until BMI start flying to LAX, should give BA cause for concern.

You are now starting to annoy everyone on this forum. BA did not offload very many seats through the Daily Mail - these offers serve us well to generate an enormous enquiry response.

I get the impression you just want to slag off BA - after all, no serious business traveller would ever, ever consider BMI as a serious long-haul operator. Their financial situation is allegedly dodgy!

....And as for the allegations of complacency........just don't go there 'cos that's what people have said since the 1960's and there is still only one truly professional carrier out there!!!

[radeng]

I last flew BMI about 10 years ago. I was flying back from Paris on a Friday night in business. Obviously, the plane was packed full, and there's not a lot of time. The BMI crew were obviously running round like blue ar**d flies, handing out papers etc, but because of the large amounts of cabin baggage, they allowed people in the exit row to have brief cases between the seat and their legs.

Since then. I wil not touch BMI.

I find BA service superb, no matter what class I'm in. I did get offloaded earlier this week - taken ill on the taxi out, offloaded to hospital, and all the BA staff couldn't have been kinder.

[pilotwolf]

bealine... perhaps if these types of threads always seem to turn into BA bashing that might tell you about the continued level of service BA pax endure?

Also the other points you make apply to all airlines surely?

And why should I pay for my own portable DVD player and disks -what 3 or 4 at £10+ each for LHR - LAX, when Virgin provide them within the ticket price, plus the games consule?

PW

[Wannabe Flyboy]

Just to add my worth, I'm by no means a regular flyer (perhaps 6 or 7 flights a year) and I've never been longhaul.
However all my travel this year has been with BA in both classes of service and I could not fault any of BA's staff or service - even the deli box seems satisfactory on occasions!

[Crepello]

radeng, sounds like quite a breach - how did BMI handle your complaint?

A note in their defence - I flew IAD-MAN-ORD with them last year (economy class) and was generally impressed. The IFE and catering were almost up to VS's standard - certainly above that of many transAtlantic operators.

Can't comment on BA longhaul but in general, they seem unfairly maligned.

[slim_slag]

Bealine,

I haven't slagged BA off once in this thread, what was that you were saying about BMI? As for annoying people, I cannot help that sometimes, I say what I think.

You want me to tell you what I think about BA (I think I have put over 500k miles on them - less than many but more than most) I will give good and bad stories, and not in equal amounts. But in general that would be another thread....

To this thread, if you are flying in the back and BA are the cheapest to LAX and you don't care about loyalty programmes then fly them. Fair enough?

If I was flying up front, I would pay a premium for BA over UA, CO, AA, US. I would not pay a premium for BA over VS or BD, I\'d fly the cheapest.

Both these are assuming departures from London, obviously if departing from MAN then BD has a huge advantage, but that is because LHR sucks and nothing to do with the airlines per se.

[strake]

Bealine

I'm sorry to say this but I believe you are wrong.

For the last couple of years your honest and balanced opinions helped keep me flying with BA. I believed that if the majority were like you then there was hope for a return to the "good old days" of the mid to late nineties.

I think the problem is more with the company. Since 9/11, They appear to have put a message out to crew saying "security and safety first..accept no dissent, you are in charge". It seems, as you have noted, that message has pushed service down the list.

What BA appears to forget is that we were ALL affected by 9/11 and we are professional flyers too...I can't do my job unless I fly long-haul. As well as a premium passenger, I am also a human being. I do not like being treated in an off-hand manner or as a problem. Unfortunately, this is how I felt as a customer of BA on too many occasions.

One of the last straws? I wrote to BA to ask a question about a problem I had on a flight booking, they wrote back saying "....we are sorry you had a problem. Our department is really busy at the moment so we can't deal with your query as we would like to but please rest assured that you are important to us. Please find 500 miles added to your account as compensation". They missed the point. I don't want any BA Miles, I want to be treated like a customer who contributes £50K+ revenue a year...at least just listened and responded to.

The sad fact for BA dedicated and concerned staff like you, is that Virgin have handled these problems in a better way. Yes, security is important to them but they have also made a real effort to ensure customer service is not lost. The relative "products" can be compared until the cows come home but the biggest effect as far as I am concerned is that Virgin appears to care about me as a passenger. They write letters (not just impersonal e-mails) to tell me what's going on, they phone a few days after a flight to check everything was OK. In fact, from the driver who picks me up to the driver who drops me off and everything in between, they make me feel welcome.

The truth is that Virgin did not "seduce" me away. British Airways just seemed to lose interest in me.

[Nick Riviera]

Bealine

'There is still only one truly professional carrier out there.'

Wrong. There are many truly professional carriers out there. Do you not understand that this is precisely the attitude that makes people detest BA?

[Virgin Boi]

A small piece of advice to scameron77, the original poster.

If you do choose Virgin for your flights between LHR and LAX, which I hope you do, you will have the choice of the daily VS7 / VS8 as well as the daily VS23 / VS24.

Choose the earlier flight (VS7 / 8). This is operated by a 747-400, most of which have the excellent V Port entertainment system, and if applicable, the incredible Upper Class Suite (J class).

If you were to choose the later VS23 / 24, you will find yourself on an ageing A340-300, which does not have V Port, and does not have the Upper Class Suite.

Both flights will be full of Virgin Flair though!

Enjoy!

[radeng]

Crepello,

I wrote and got no reply. It was 1992 or 3.

These days, would I say anything? probably not, especially in the US, because you'll get labelled as a trouble maker and possibly thrown off. Maybe even prosecuted by the Total Stupidity Agency or whatever.

Whether the NTSB/FAA/CAA would take any notice of a written complaint after the event, I don't know. It would probably be best to bypass the airline completetly - possibly CHIRP might be the best way in the UK to maintain anonymity and prevent repercussions on future trips.

[Jimlad]

I fly BA across the pond when paying and Virgin when going with work. The differences IMHO are as follows:

Legroom - slighlty better on BA, the 340 seems to be a little less space for tall people.

IFE - Virgin is great, if it works!

CC = I've always found BA's very good, Virgins can be a bit rude, and I've even made written complaints in the past about them (and before anyone says it, I go out of my way to be nice to CC and say please/thanks, watch the brief and say thank you in person if I get good service).

Customer Service - BA isn't as good at responding to problems, Virgin handle things very well and make you feel like the problems been solved.

Rewards - The BA Exec Club is a joke, I've flown with BA 10 times this year including twice in WT+ and twice in J and have no chance of making Silver. At least Virgin give you a chance.

Upgrades - Having said that, I've been upgraded twice without asking for one by the gate and at check in by BA, and never by Virgin.

All in all, I'd go for BA, but if you can afford it go WT+, its a superb experience.

[surely not]

Virgin every time for me. I think their crew are more relaxed and friendly, plus the IFE is better than other airlines. I have travelled all 3 of their classes and think they are all very good.

BA are ok but a tad stuffy for my liking, and the IFE isn't up to the standard of VS.

I wouldn't recommend an American airline because I don't think their customer service is as good.

[bealine]

One of the last straws? I wrote to BA to ask a question about a problem I had on a flight booking, they wrote back saying "....we are sorry you had a problem. Our department is really busy at the moment so we can't deal with your query as we would like to but please rest assured that you are important to us. Please find 500 miles added to your account as compensation". They missed the point. I don't want any BA Miles, I want to be treated like a customer who contributes £50K+ revenue a year...at least just listened and responded to.

I am indeed sorry to hear that, strake, and without being patronising, I empathise, because I've just had exactly the same situation with Sainsburys. (a £10 voucher because my on-line shopping order was 45 mins late. However, it put us to a lot of inconvenience as it meant my daughter was late being picked up from school, late for her evening maths tuition and I was late for work).

Unfortunately, standard replies and standard "voucher" compensation is becoming the norm in British business and I fear this attitude will drive many British business under before too long!!!

That having been said, I was verbally and physically attacked only two days ago for daring to weigh an enormous cabin bag. Security issues are still there and these must take precedence over customer service for the safety, well-being and security of the majority!

[Globaliser]

Jimlad: Rewards - The BA Exec Club is a joke, I've flown with BA 10 times this year including twice in WT+ and twice in J and have no chance of making Silver. At least Virgin give you a chance.A suggestion: Have a look at joining the Qantas Frequent Flyer scheme and putting all your BA flying into that. QF offers a Silver (= OW Ruby) tier (sitting between bog standard entry level and BA Silver = OW Sapphire) which has some benefits, though not as many as QF Gold (= BA Silver). But at the moment you also earn status credits towards that on all BA flying, even in deep discount economy.

However, there is rumoured to be an announcement on Friday of this week about changes, so it may be worth your while also checking what's going to happen then. This deep discount economy pax is a little bit nervous about what might happen.

[AIRWAY]

Hello,

Quick question, instead of creating another topic, the new flights to SYD with virgin, will the A340-600 be used on that route?

Thank You

[christep]

Yes, according to the advertising in HK (which is the intermediate stop).

[AIRWAY]

Thanks,

Reason for asking is that im plannig my trip to Oz, and i would like to try for the first time the A340-600, when i went to their website i couldn't find any relevant information about the aircraft use for that route, mind you i have to admit im impressed with their prices for the dates i requested.

Thanks once again.

[Bob Upndown]

Airway,

The A340-600 will indeed by used for the VS LHR-SYD route, with a 90 minute turn in HKG both ways.

Cheers

[AIRWAY]

Thank you Bob,

Virgin to SYD it is then :} :O

[jerrystinger]

Strongly recommended NOT to fly BA to Australia, especially in economy as you will NOT be fed for about 8hrs after the main meal (unless you go into the galley where you are offered some smarties from the tuck box!) and when you do get breakfast it's pretty pathetic (actually, it's outrageous!) for such a long flight!

At the moment I choose Singapore and JAL to SYD (drinks and food on tap!), but am hoping VS will provide a decent service on the LHR-HKG-SYD route!

[BahrainLad]

The whole idea of BA operating cushy routes out of LHR with no competition is a (Branson-perpetuated) myth.

Take Sydney. The Bearded One screams about a BA/Qantas 'duopoly'. Well, fair enough, if all you care about is getting off at SIN or BKK and back onto the same aircraft.

Anyone else can see that on LHR-SYD, BA competes with CX, SQ, TG, EK, GF, JL, soon to be QR and many others. They all compete on a value/service proposition.

Across the Atlantic, the competition is fierce.

Even the Gulf, a goldmine for BA, has extensive competition from local carriers.

I think the only BA route without competition is Bermuda, and in King's word's, there's hardly enough for one....

[slim_slag]

I think the only BA route without competition is Bermuda, and in King's word's, there's hardly enough for one....

Just off the top of my head BA have no non-stop competition trans Atlantic between LON and PHX, DEN, BWI, SEA.

Looks like BA are offloading cheap seats on AOL....

[Bramley]

To put in my two pennies in response to the original question... I've flown economy business across the pond with BA and Virgin, and economy with AA, enough times to not harp on about an individual experience and assume it's always the same.

In business, for me (but maybe not everyone) I found the BA staff more aloof, but still professional, than VAA; but the cabin and overall standard of food etc. was closer to what I wanted. I haven't tried the new suites.

Down the back, the IFE is all much of a muchness (Virgin poor if you get one of the older systems). But AA has those 3 extra inches, and it you're 6' tall, it's a big dfference. For that reason alone, I'd recommend AA. Beware getting stuck in the middle of the five abreast centre block, though.

[PAXboy]

You will find, in another thread, that AA have discovered that the extra space did not fill the seats and that they have started to fill the space again.

I am not suer if this is to be across the whole fleet domestic and international.