problem with pprune email

[Carrier]

I am unable to send emails . I can receive them Every attempt to send receives a message that my ISP is blocked because it is part of the 419 Nigeria scam. I am operating from an internet cafe and other peole here can send email through yahoo, etc. This indicates that the problem is not the internet cafe's ISP but it is pprune email that is blocked. Please advise what is happening to enable emails to be sent through pprune email
Thanks, Carrier

[Naples Air Center, Inc.]

Carrier,

If you are using an Internet Cafe, then it is the Cafe's service that has the SMTP Server Blocked.

You need to speak to the Internet Cafe about it. If it is a POP3 Server that you are using, have the Internet Cafe give you their SMTP Server Address, and you can use their Server for outgoing Email.

Take Care,

Richard

[Carrier]

I am back six hours later and still the same problem. Earlier while I was here one of the Internet cafe's staff sent me an email using yahoo mail. I received it. When I tried to send a reply to her I received the same message. It seems everyone else can send emails from the Internet cafe. Only those using pprune email are blocked. This to me indicates that the problem must be at PPRune's server or ISP! How can it be here when everyone except pprune users can send email from here???

Pprune administrators - help and advice please! Thanks.

[Naples Air Center, Inc.]

Carrier,

I am sure your problem is with the Internet Cafe. They have the outgoing blocked.

Take Care,

Richard

[Danny]

Two things:

1) PPRuNE email has nothing to do with the PPRuNe server. It is run by everyone.net and is a service provided by them as do thousands of other free email providers.

2) As mentioned above, the problem is the internet cafe and/or their service provider who are blocking the facility.

Sorry, but can do no more to help except hope that someone will provide further advice on here.

[Carrier]

Richard & Danny, Thanks for the replies. We have established that the problem is definitely not related to the Internet cafe or even to the Internet cafe’s ISP.

Early this morning I went back to the Internet cafe and tried again. Again I could receive emails but was unable to send them. Each time I tried to send an email I would get the response below. Note that this page apparently comes back from Everyone.net!



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Your email was NOT sent. The following problem(s) occurred: · Your ISP is blacklisted for providing internet access to "419" scam artists.



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Copyright © Everyone.net(TM) and The Professional Pilots RUmour NEtwork. All Rights Reserved. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

I saved the page onto the computer I was using, along with the opening page from the link given. I also copied this thread with Richard’s first and second replies and showed all to the staff at the Internet cafe. They then called their ISP and explained the problem. I also spoke to someone there. His suggestion was to first establish if the problem was located at the Internet cafe by trying to send emails at another Internet cafe. This would have been impossible four months ago as we only had one Internet cafe. Now there are three. I walked along to Internet cafe 2 and tried to send my emails. I received the same response. I asked them which ISP they use and found it is a different ISP from the one used by Internet cafe 1. This problem is not at a particular Internet cafe or at a particular ISP here. I am located in Africa, and for the record am nowhere near Nigeria.

I wondered about a virus. My anti-virus and the different anti-virus program at Internet cafe 1 are both current. In any case I do not see how a virus could affect just the sending of PPRuNe Email. Everyone else at both Internet cafes has no problem sending emails by anything other than PPRuNe Email. I normally take my emails to the Internet cafe on a floppy disk and bring the received emails back on the same floppy. I wondered if that was part of the problem. Note that yesterday one of the staff sat at another computer and sent me a test email, using Yahoo. When she advised it had been sent I logged on to PPRuNe Email and received it. I then clicked on reply, typed a couple of words, and tried to send it back to her. I got the same result, this time without a floppy being involved.

Danny has confirmed that PPRuNe email does not go through the PPRuNe server. Thanks Danny, and my apology for suspecting it. The only common item left is Everyone.net. It seems that they are blocking emails from numerous ISPs in Africa. This seems to be confirmed by the fact that the “NOT sent” page comes back with their name at the bottom. Perhaps some ISPs are used by people who distribute scam emails. However, there are many Ppruners in Africa, like me, who are not part of any scam. I fail to see why we should be cut off for someone else’s sins. It seems Everyone.net is using a Nazi “shoot the whole village in reprisal” response to email scams!

Danny, as I am unable to send Everyone.net an email, which is the whole issue, I will be grateful if you would contact them and ask them to ensure that all Ppuners in Africa, whichever ISP they use, are able to send emails through PPRuNe email.

[drauk]

There is no big mystery here - the message you get back from everyone.net explains precisely why they will not accept messages sent from the particular place you're trying to send them. The problem IS the particular ISP you're using - it's just that all those you've tried have been blacklisted in a similar way.

It's got nothing to do with Nigeria particularly - it's just that if a particular ISP allows spam to be sent then it is very hard to know which person using that ISP is to blame, so the whole ISP gets blacklisted. If you fail to see why they do this I suggest you set up and manage your own SMTP server and let people use it for free.

The easy solution to the problem was already offered in this thread - use your Internet cafe's outgoing mail server. Then, if you wish, you can petition everyone.net to remove the blacklisting, though I doubt they will.

[Carrier]

Drauk, I guess you did not fully understand the problem or its implications before posting the above.

This problem is not peculiar to me. It affects ALL users of pprune email and other email services on everyone.net. If you, Danny, Rob or any other users of pprune email come here you will all find that you are unable to send emails! How far does this problem extend? I do not know. I suspected last week that it is far ranging. This was confirmed on Friday. I had a flight to an African capital city far from where I currently live. I stayed overnight at a typical hotel that is used by aircrew. It is part of a major international chain. As well as being used by aircrew it also has the city offices of a major international airline. Like all hotels of this level it offers Internet access to its guests. I signed on using one of their computers and had the same problem. I was not able to send emails using pprune email. It seems that pprune email is blocked over wide swathes of Africa! It is probably also blocked on numerous ISPs in other continents.

The main reason for using a service such as pprune email is so that very mobile people such as pilots can easily receive and send emails no matter where they might be. If this is compromised then the service becomes useless. It is nonsense to suggest that every time I and ALL OTHER USERS OF PPRUNE EMAIL are away from home and use a new Internet cafe or an international hotel’s Internet access we should have to check on what ISP they use, whether it is blocked by pprune email and everyone.net, what SMPT Server Address they use, etc! I should point out that I appreciate Richard’s response. He had very little information to go on and his advice is valid for someone who always logs on at the same place and who wants to continue using the pprune email service. Once I advised that TWO ISPs had been blocked, both you, Drauk, and Danny should have realised that the problem is not peculiar to one user or to one part of the globe!

The answer for me is to use a service that can be relied upon wherever I might be. I signed up to Yahoo mail on Monday and so far it is working everywhere I have tried it, in particular in the places where pprune email is blocked. I expect other users of pprune email and everyone.net will come to the same conclusion when they experience this problem. Danny, if you and everyone.net do not do some damage control I expect that you will gradually lose users to other services until yours eventually dwindles out of sight. Are you still committed to pprune email and seeking to expand it or have you decided to let it wither?

Most users faced with the problem I have described would probably just seek another email service and say nothing. I have taken the trouble to alert you to the problem, giving you the opportunity to take some prompt remedial action, although I am not sure this has been appreciated. Part of my motivation for doing so is because it would be convenient for me to continue using pprune email. I would continue using it if the problem is promptly remedied and the service is guaranteed to be available worldwide for the foreseeable future. The other reason is because I appreciate what you, Danny, and your team have done with PPRuNe and I want to continue supporting it and seeing it succeed, together with its ancillary services such as pprune email. Obviously PPRuNe itself will continue regardless of this problem. It is only the pprune email service that is affected, together with any other email services on everyone.net.

Danny, if you seriously want pprune email service to continue and thrive then you and everyone.net have to commit to ensuring that the service will be available to ALL users wherever they might be in the world for the reasonable future. It is your choice!

Cheers, Carrier

[drauk]

Precisely which part of the problem do you think I don't understand?

Your intentions are noble in trying to make the service accessible to everyone but PPRuNe can do nothing about this - it is everyone.net that you need to talk to. I have no control over their server. In everyonet.net's scheme of things we're tiny and insignificant.

Where do you think the money would come from in order that we could offer a guarantee that it would be available worldwide for the forseeable future?

You seem happy with yahoo, which is great. If you're not, let me know and you can have a free email account with us directly, which *should* be available worldwide (no guarantees though).

[Naples Air Center, Inc.]

Carrier,

The problem with free email like everyone.net is that spammers get a hold of email accounts and use them to send out their spam. As ISPs start taking a more active roll in blocking Spammers, more and more IP Addresses will end up blocked. Those blocked IP Addresses will be Mail Server IPs.

Until spam is under control and spammers are behind bars, only expect it to get worse.

Take Care,

Richard

[Carrier]

After my previous posts I filed the following letter of complaint with the Better Business Bureau of Santa Clara Valley:

Dear Sirs, Re: Everyone.net, Inc.

I would like to register a complaint regarding Everyone.net withdrawing our email sending capability without any notice and for no reason to do with us or our actions. For someone who has a mobile lifestyle, such as a pilot, it is not much use having an email address with an email service if one is unable to reply to or send new emails through that email service in large parts of the world and particularly in the whole of the country in which one is currently based! The main reason for using a supposedly world-wide email service such as PPRuNe email, which is provided through Everyone.net, is so that a user can send and receive emails wherever they might physically be in the world.

Please find enclosed copies of my letter of complaint to Everyone.net and of their response. This is unacceptable. The contents of my letter to Everyone.net should be self explanatory. My wife and I have been using the PPRuNe email service for some years. During this time all our business and personal contacts have become used to using our email address at PPRuNe email. It would be a massive task to notify all these contacts and to persuade them to record and use another email address to contact us. Although we are on an emergency basis using Yahoo Mail to send emails we would like to continue with being able to send and receive emails through our PPRuNe email address just the same as we did in XXXXXXXX until late last year.

Other free email services such as Yahoo Mail and Microsoft’s Hotmail have not blacked out large parts of the world. Their users are able to send and receive emails wherever they might physically be in the world. If there is a spam problem from certain users then the answer is to block the problem email addresses, not to arbitrarily block all users of an ISP, innocent as well as guilty. This particularly applies where a whole country is served by only one ISP or a small number of ISPs. Yahoo Mail and Hotmail show that in spite of the spam problem it is possible to maintain worldwide full email service to their subscribers so Everyone.net should be able to do the same. Indeed, you will note that although Everyone.net has withdrawn our email sending capability for its free service through PPRuNe email it is quite able to restore sending capability if we are prepared to pay for its premium service! This indicates that there is another motive behind Everyone.net’s action.

It seems that Everyone.net is operating a Bait and Switch scam. Users are enticed to sign up with the free email service. After they have been using Everyone.net’s free email service for long enough to build up large lists of contacts and make switching to another email provider extremely difficult, Everyone.net then starts to pressure the users to change to their pay-for-service premium email service! This is not an acceptable way of doing business.

Everyone.net should immediately restore our email sending capability though our existing PPRuNe email service wherever we might be physically located in the world and particularly in XXXXXXXX. Everyone.net should also cease blocking the sending capabilities of all its subscribers, free as well as paid, in large parts of the world. Only known scam problem email addresses should be blocked. There is absolutely no excuse for blocking the sending capabilities of innocent users, particularly if it is part of a Bait and Switch tactic to pressure users into switching to the premium service. If Everyone.net will not cease its whole ISP blocking tactics then I feel the matter should be referred to Federal, State and Municipal authorities to have all of Everyone.net’s business licences and permits withdrawn to protect the public. We will appreciate your help with getting Everyone.net to restore our email sending capability, particularly in XXXXXXXX. Please confirm by email that you have received this and are taking action.

Yours truly


I received an airmail letter from Ms Lena Marie Palacios of the Better Business Bureau advising that they had contacted Everyone.net, Inc. and that the company had not replied. The BBB advised that my complaint had been recorded as UNANSWERED and that Everyone.net’s apparent unresponsiveness had been recorded in the company file and would be made part of the BBB’s report to the public. They advised that if the company should reply in future they would forward a copy to me. There has been no such response. Neither has our Pprune email sending capability been restored by Everyone.net, Inc.

Any company of integrity would give fair notice to its customers to minimise the impact on innocent users. If Everyone.net’s excuse for cutting off email sending capability (only to users of its free service!) was genuine they would have offered a decent notice period to all users so that innocent customers would have been able to make alternative arrangements. Everyone.net did not do so. Obviously the cutting off of service without notice is designed to cause the maximum inconvenience and pressure to force customers to change to Everyone.net’s premium fee-based service! Secondly, a company of integrity that has no problem dealing with spam to users of its fee-based premium email service would have no problem dealing with spam to users of its free email service. Thirdly, any company of integrity would have replied to the Better Business Bureau.

There is obviously a problem with the business ethics of Everyone.net, Inc. In particular Everyone.net’s refusal to respond to a Better Business Bureau is the silence of the guilty! Two actions are needed. First, I ask you all to join with me in filing complaints with the following two organisations:

Better Business Bureau of Santa Clara Valley, Ltd.
700 Empey Way #110
San Jose, CA 95128-4705 USA
Tel: + (408)278-7400 Fax: + (408) 278-7444
[email protected]

Attorney General’s Office
California Department of Justice
Attn: Public Inquiry Unit
P. O. Box 944255
Sacramento, CA 94244-2550 USA
Tel: + (916) 322-3360 Fax: + (916) 323-5341

Next, Pprune needs to change the provider of its email service. Pprune is ethically run and I am sure wants to continue to keep its good reputation. Unfortunately, one’s reputation is to some extent coloured by the company one keeps. The current provider of Pprune’s email service has business ethics of sleazebag standard! I am sure the operators of Pprune do not want to be associated with a Bait and Switch scam so I look forward to learning that Pprune has a new email service provider of decent ethical standards.

Cheers, Carrier

[stickyb]

drauk and naples, I think (if I may interject) that you are being a bit harsh on carrier and not fully understanding his problem. I don't thonk it is the cafe or its isp that are doing the blocking

Certainly the claim made in the advertising for pprune mail about them being globally accessible, permanent and versatile would not appear to be totally accurate.

As I understand it, Pprune email is web based, meaning that it won't be using smtp until it leaves the everyone.net servers, so blocking of smtp at internet cafe level does not come into it.

If the failure message is coming from everyone.net, then all they can be doing is checking the ip address of the internet cafe against a list they are holding, and thus deciding to black it.

So, either the list held by everyone.net is wrong - which could be the case given that yahoo works - or the isp that the cafe use has indeed given air timeto spammers, and everyone.net is totally correct in the statement.

It would be nice to be able to have a dialogue with everyone.net about their (rather crude) blocking methodology, but in the meantime you could access your mailbox through something like www.mail2web.com and see if that helps.

[drauk]

I understand his problem perfectly. The web cafe that he uses has been blocked from being able to send email by everyone.net. It's very simple.

My point is, it's nothing to do with PPRuNe. It's a free service, if you don't like it, don't use it. If we could offer any more help we would, but it's an issue with everyone.net, not PPRuNe.

[stickyb]

drauk, you said The easy solution to the problem was already offered in this thread - use your Internet cafe's outgoing mail server.
How do you do that with a web based email system like pprune mail?

[drauk]

stickyb, as well you know, with a purely webmail client you can't. You'd have to configure an email client. What's your point? If that solution isn't any good, which I can imagine it may well not be, use something else, like Yahoo.

[Harrier46]

My pprune email stopped working early yesterday. Nothing going out, nothing in. Checked this morning using test messages and still not working. Any ideas what is happening?

[drauk]

No idea - you'll need to speak to someone at everyone.net I'm afraid as they handle everything to do with the pprune mail accounts.

[Harrier46]

Two days now with only three inbound mails, outbound seems okay! Test messages and other important mails are not received and everyone.net offers no support, unless you can give account numbers and other technical details, which obviously I do not have. So time to cut my losses and move to another e-mail service.

[Carrier]

First, thanks for the supportive posts from stickyb, someone who understand the problem. Stickyb, I am sure you realise this problem affects all users of Pprune email if they travel to the affected areas in Africa and presumably elsewhere and try to use Pprune email.

Second, Drauk’s 19 July 2005 post: “The web cafe that he uses has been blocked.......” and his previous posts confirm that Drauk does not understand the problem. Drauk is functionally illiterate in that he is unable to understand the contents of my previous posts and would probably be unable to pass grade two English comprehension. His problem solving skills are probably severely limited in that the first requirement for solving a problem is to be able to identify the problem.

I very clearly, to anyone with a reasonable education, pointed out that the problem is spread over more than one ISP, more than one Internet cafe, includes the email services of international hotels used by aircrew (e.g. Holiday Inn and InterContinental), and that all of these are spaced hundred of miles apart in different cities and countries. I also pointed out that this problem affects ALL users of Pprune email and probably other users of Everyone.net email services in that when they visit these various facilities and try to use their Pprune email or other Everyone.net email they too will find that they are unable to send emails. Drauk is unable to comprehend these two points. He still thinks that the problem is confined to one Internet cafe. Danny, I do not know what your requirements are for an Administrator but I suggest that for a Computer and Internet Forum Administrator basic comprehension and problem solving skills should certainly be part of them!

The Administrators of Pprune have known since late last year that Pprune email does not operate on a worldwide basis. Despite this Pprune is still falsely advertising its free email service as being “Globally Accessible”, “Permanent” and “provides you with all the facilities you get elsewhere”. Elsewhere, such as Hotmail and Yahoo, email customers have the facility of being able to send emails from wherever they might be! I am sure the Administrators of Pprune entered into the email arrangement with Everyone.net in good faith. However, they have now been aware of the ethical and customer service problems for more than half a year and it is not acceptable for Pprune to just stick its head in the sand. It seems to be time for some blunt questions to find out where Pprune stands.

Danny, is it the policy of Pprune to engage in false and misleading advertising and to be an accessory to a bait-and-switch scam? If your answer is in the negative, then what remedial actions do you intend to take and by when?

[drauk]

[Sigh]

I've said the ISP has been blocked because that is what the message you got says: I can only go on the information you've given me. I said that the internet cafe has been blocked as a consequence of using that ISP. That's a fact that you yourself have given me - you can't send email from that internet cafe (not because of a problem there, evidently, but because of their choice of ISP). I'm not suggesting the problem is with that internet cafe exclusively; ultimately it's a consequence of everyone.net's policy as I've said before. I realise this happens from many locations. I've identified the problem and told you what it is: it's at everyone.net. I'm not sure how I can state this any more clearly.

You still seem to be forgetting that PPRuNe is a free service. If you don't like it, don't use it. Alternatively continue posting attacks on the character of a person that (a) personally provides YOU with FREE access to the PPRuNe forums and (b) offered YOU a FREE email account on a system that other people pay money for and you won't have to worry about choosing whether you use it or not.