Will MY-TRAVEL go Bust ? (Merged)

[thereceiver2004]

With all the articles in the press over the weekend ref MYT... are they likely to go bust..??

Answers on a post card please...:ooh:

[Dengue_Dude]

The shares I have don't even make reasonable toilet paper.

Strange so many directors left with six figure settlements for NOT doing the job they were paid for.

This is our own 'food for oil' scandal.

Predictably it's the innocents that will suffer.

I bet they are still churning out the 'Do more with Less edicts too'.

Glad I'm not there, it's a terrible 'overhead' to work with when you're just trying to DO your job.

Edited for spelin agyn

[CODECO Monkey]

Careful thereceiver2004,

"MT" is the 2-letter code for Thomas Cook Airlines, who I suspect don't particularly want to be associated with MYT , otherwise known as MyTravel...

CM

p.s. As to an answer to your question, it's amazed me how MYT have carried on as they have for as long as they have...

[ott]

MyTravel under threat to lose trading licence

Terry Macalister
Monday November 15, 2004
The Guardian

MyTravel, Britain's biggest tour operator, will admit for the first time today that it will lose its trading licence from the Civil Aviation Authority unless bondholders give consent to an £800m restructuring.
The danger of the regulator pulling the plug on flights and holidays will be contained in a circular sent to rebels such as fund manager Fidelity, which has opposed the rescue plan.

MyTravel has been in turmoil for almost two years since it warned of a £50m black hole in the accounts which eventually led to the exit of the founder and chairman, David Crossland and chief executive Tim Byrne.

MyTravel made a £365m loss in 2003, but last October announced a debt-for-equity plan it argues will put the company on a sound footing.

Bondholders have complained, however, that they have not been properly consulted on the terms of the deal, which would leave them with only 8% of the restructured business. A further 4% would be left with shareholders, while 88% would go to the creditor banks led by Royal Bank of Scotland.

MyTravel declined to comment last night on the publication date of the circular or any of its contents.

"The board believes - and has made clear since March - it is necessary to restructure the balance sheet," was all a spokeswoman for MyTravel was willing to say.

But well-placed sources confirmed the circular was ready to be distributed this morning and would warn about the threat from the CAA, which is poised to undertake an annual review of MyTravel.

The company, which offers holidays under a series of different names, hopes to head off any early intervention from the regulator by telling bondholders it will go to court if it does not have their irrevocable support by Wednesday. If necessary, MyTravel would make an application to the high court on November 18 and ask for a "scheme of arrangement" to be put in place.

Under this, the court would convene a meeting for shareholders and creditors where it would call them to vote on what amounts to an even more punitive ownership structure. This would leave bondholders with only 2% of the company, formerly known as Airtours.

Shares in MyTravel rose by more than 7% to 4p last Friday amid expectation that the bondholders would agree the offer - rather than seeing their potential holding diluted further.

Paradoxically the latest crisis comes as MyTravel has recovered some of its financial strength. This is partly because costs have been cut drastically through redundancies and the sale of certain business.

City analysts had been pencilling in operating losses of £100m for the 12 months to the end of September 2004.

But chief executive Peter McHugh said earlier in September he believed it would hit breakeven, helped by booming demand in Scandinavia for holidays in the sun after a wet domestic summer.

There was also an improvement in the British side of the business which has started to make profits after a tough start to the year.

[Fuel Crossfeed]

Been done to death this one, everyone in the airline business knows that MYT are in trouble and are doing their best to get out of the sh*t.
I'm sure we all know people working for them, so lets stop the rumour-mongering and hope they pull through it. Good luck MYT!!

[AVIACO]

Another victim of their own success, and far too rapid an expansion.

They were far better when they were the small Airtours of the 1980's, and exclusively used chartered BAC1-11's from Dan-Air Services to operate their holiday flights.

I remember well that they were the only tour operator of the era not to serve meals on their Dan-Air flights - only coffee and biscuits.

Anyway, now saddled with all that debt, a fleet of aircraft, cruiseships, hotels, islands and not a cent in the bank!

Bring back the days of Pendle Tours Inc.

(For that matter, bring back Dan Air too).


My heart goes out to EVERYONE at MYT. Let's hope that a miracle occurs and the company re-emerges to fight another day, but in a leaner, more manageable form. Good luck guys.

[spy]

If the bond holders hold out the answer is maybe but I don't think either the bond holders or share holders can or will block the banks and MYT at this stage. If they do then it's all over. I think MYT are playing hard ball with the bond holders to force the issue asap. A high risk stratergy perhaps!

I think we will still be here this time next year.

[WindSheer]

I agree with Fuel Crossfeed.

I work for one of MYT's biggest rivals, but none the less it would be horrible to see them go under.
Apart from our passions for aviation, we are all in this industry for one main thing £££££££££££££££££££ ! ! ! ! Most of the people I have met from MYT seem good guys!

They seem to be just about hanging in there at the moment, long may it continue!:ok:

[Ballymoss]

Simple answer............NO

Sure the bondholders will play merry hell but, faced with 8% or 2% of very little, 8 would seem better! Holding out would seem futile, is anyone that bitter to force MYT under?? I doubt it!

D_D, hope you've mellowed, you were as big a loss to MYT as that rot-box trijet when it finally gets shifted.

Rgds
The Moss

[dadaposh]

you reap what you sow.

I treat my staff like cr4p, i've messed up and wasted 800 million of other peoples money, and all the poor people who trusted me tough, you've lost also...
still our management structure is so solid and we are number 1 that they must let us off and we'll continue as if nothing ever happened.

nuff said?

[spy]

Dadaposh

Grow up! It is not about letting MYT off! The question is simply have they re-built a business that will make money? Can the banks recover some or all of their investment? Ansewer YES! Therefore the company will survive but not for any emotional reasons. They will have had to prove the company is again viable.

[loveJet]

Ballymoss

oh please! Bitter? Bitterness doesnt put a company out of business. Its stupid management does, and also the harsh realities of the market place. How old are ya?

Its PURELY economical. If MYT have allowed themselves to get into this state I really do NOT believe in propping them up when there are other fitter companies out there.

Hope they go bust I really do, the market needs a sweep and clean and at the moment we dont need a company bleeding at the seems.

Jet

[monkey lover]

lovejet......

Thats a bit harsh !

[spy]

Lovejet

Really hope you fail your LPC/OPC, lose your medical and your house is taken from you by the banks! Your wife or husband runs off with the postman/woeman and the neighbours dog bites you in the arse!

All of the above sounds really childish and mean spireted don't you think? Sounds a bit like your post! Nice to know there are still warm kind folks like you still out there makes me feel all warm inside. Shame you don't live up to your name!

;)

[GOLF-INDIA BRAVO]

Lovejet

May the sun shine down on you NOT

[763 jock]

loveJet, your profile says it all. "Future Airline Boss", bet you'll have quality people from all over the industry just falling over themselves to work for such a caring employer. :\

[codpiece face]

Well i suppose at least lovejet is being honest, probally not thinking of the far wider implications such as lower wages/no pay rises for everyone else, no training new folk as there will be a glut of rated and experienced people around and a door opening to many more two bit gash start ups that are far worse.

[763 jock]

LJ makes the assumption that only MYT Airways would be affected. Stacks of MYT summer charter capacity is farmed out to third party carriers (2 million seats last year rings a bell). Monarch, Air Europa, Spanair etc would all feel some heat if MYT PLC failed. The other MYT products like Tradewinds, Cresta and Bridge offer scheduled flights to the long haul destinations. Not sure how many seats are bought on BA etc by these sub divisions, but bet it is not to be sneezed at! The fall out would be felt by loads of subcontractors, from the handling agents to cleaners, caterers, spares suppliers, Hallmark cars and so on. No doubt he still "hopes they go bust". :mad:

[qwertyuiop]

763,

Would it really affect 3rd party flying? I thought it would only ground the MYT fleet if the CAA pulled the plug. Surely the other airlines would increase their flying.

[spy]

The bond applies to the tour operator, no tour operator no airline!

[U/S President]

qwertyuiop: I thought it would only ground the MYT fleet.
Au contraire. When the press talks about the CAA “pulling the plug” on MyTravel, they are talking about the CAA revoking the group’s various ATOL tour operating licences.

Of course, if the CAA decided that the group was so shaky that they were pulling the ATOLs, I assume they’d also pull MyTravel Airways Ltd’s Air Operators Certificate. And I guess the Danish CAA would follow suit and pull MyTravel Airways A/S’s AOC.

[Ballymoss]

loveJet

Bitterness has put many a company out of business! The list is long. Run along and develop some routes as your profile would have us believe. And before you ask how old I am, clean up your grama!........:mad:

Rgds
The Moss

[driftdown]

Lovejet

Your post was a bit vitriolic. If you are referring to the collective we as in the taxpayer propping up My Travel there is no doubt that aint going to happen.

As they say - if you owe the bank a million thats your problem, if you owe the banks 500 mill then thats their problem. If the banks have advanced a ton of money to support the group then they have assisted in developing this situation To get some return they will need to stump up some more.

Regardless of this, there are a bunch of hard working people still trying to deliver the goods to the travelling public. They have families to support, mortgages to pay etc etc. It got to be damn hard to approach each day with some form of optimism whilst wondering whether there will be a job in a month or so's time. Your posting about hoping my travel goes bust would be just what they want to read - NOT.


For the sake of all the staff I hope things get better.

Well that's my tuppny ha'pny worth anyway.

[loveJet]

Spy

Your response is quite shocking. I'm talking about a company using thier poor position to put other fitter companies at risk by taking on lump sums of cash to get them out of the proverbial s@$*. You made it very personal...I dont quite think you understood my point, which wasn't an attack on employees of the company.

Codpiece face

Thanks for at least recognising my point. Being that the company has messed airports around - including the one i work for. Mytravel have not treated their staff or customers well and the people who stand up for such a company should question whether they are doing it on a personal level or a business level.

My own company.

Its a dream, but it will be a company that certainly chooses it employees well, spreads an atmosphere of love TO its staff first, then its customers. We will not be taking on people that believe in propping up poorly run company's that put the rest of us at risk. And finanly if its not viable it won't happen. Thats the nature of business.

Jet

[Big Tudor]

loveJet,

Being that the company has messed airports around
The airline lands at an airport, the airline takes off from an airport. The airline pays landing, navigation, parking fees, etc to the airport. How exactly does that constitute messing them around. Sorry of we inconvenience you by actually using your facilities for the purpose they were designed.

Wishing that a specific airline/ tour op will go bust is at best childish, at worst contemptable, particularly from someone (apparently) connected with aviation. There are plenty of other companies who are milking the cash cow dry (railway subsidies of 3.84 billion pounds last year). MyTravel is working with the banks and financial institutions to try and work through the problems the Group have faced over the last 2-3 years. If it does work out then approx 20,000 people worldwide will retain their jobs, salaries and careers. Or perhaps we should just follow your opinions and chuck them all onto the unemployed list! :mad:

And please appraise us with your thoughts on how MyTravel could possibly worry these 'fitter' companies you refer to? If they are so 'fit' then MYT's restructure will have little or no impact on them. Of course, it would ultimately benefit some of MYT's competitors to see them removed from the equation.

[loveJet]

little or no impact on them?! man YOURE the one thats childish. If they owe money somehting went wrong. I hoped they would pull through a LONG TIME AGO. But it's been dragging on, and any employees who are still there would be wise to cut and run...seeing as thats what the management have been doing.

Thats the whole point of competition... that unfit companies go bust. (in laymans terms)

Btw (thats by the way) airports have to spend a great deal of time and money on promoting routes, and when Mytravel suddently aborts the route; the travel agents, passengers, and airports are inconvenienced. Now if this happened once or twice we could put it down to the market, but airports around the UK have been fed up with mytravels behaviour. And the consumer will be too very soon.

Jet

[Big Tudor]

No, sorry, still don't get it. MYT owe money (lots of it) to the banks and the financial institutions that lent it to them. Nobody else. Please explain how that affects the 'fitter' companies you refer to?
airports have to spend a great deal of time and money on promoting routes, and when Mytravel suddently aborts the route; the travel agents, passengers, and airports are inconvenienced.
And pray tell which airports have spent all this money on promoting MYT's routes? The only route advertising that I have seen has been on MYTLite from BHX, advertsing bought and paid for by MYTLite.

And BTW (yes I know what it means), who was being childish? Simple questions and answers. :mad:

[763 jock]

LJ, perhaps customers don't want to fly from said airports and that's why MYT have pulled out. It's a free market and if there is a profit to be made someone else will fill the void.

[sfbbus]

lovejet, the last thing anybody needs is more pilots on the market. A pilot shortage is the only way we can all start to earn better salaries etc. MYT is going to break even this year, which is one hell of a turnaround, and is expected to be in profit next year. The pain we have been through is coming to other holiday companies in the future, mainly in the way of new accounting practices. I don't think MYT is the only company to have been doing strange, but legal, things with the books.

[loveJet]

yeah thanx B763 Jock i said that if it happens once or twice its down to the market... but the many times it has happened just won't do. You only need ask your local travel agent how they feel about MYT.

Big T: It will affect fitter companies, because it's no longer a level playing field. Small profit and big prift is one thing but when there are holiday compabies making profits (First Choice) then the ones that arn't should go the course.

Anyway where did that £50m go? No-one seems to know. Is that a good company? umm...let me think...

Jet

sorry that last post wasnt very well written ... rushing into a meeting...

Jet

[PPRuNe Pop]

This is twice I have had to do this today.

Cut out the vitriol! Good honest debate is what we want not who is better than the guy next door stuff! If you cannot make a sentence without being gross stay off the thread.

Hope that is taken in.

This, for some, is a very serious issue. Don't mess with it.

PPP

[ott]

MyTravel Group plc

Bondholder Voting Agreements

MyTravel Group plc announces that as at 5.00 pm on 17 November it has received Voting Agreements from bondholders in respect of 0.23 per cent of the bonds.

As previously announced, while the Board would prefer to implement the restructuring of MyTravel on a consensual basis, it has prepared a contingency plan in case agreement is not reached. The company has begun the process of implementing the restructuring using a scheme of arrangement under section 425 of the Companies Act 1985, which does not require the approval of the bondholders. It has applied to the court for directions to convene the meetings of shareholders and creditors required to approve the scheme, and the hearing of this application is scheduled for 18 November.

MyTravel Group Chairman Michael Beckett says: "I am disappointed that so far the bondholders have not supported our consensual restructuring proposal, which I believe is more than fair to them. However I am encouraged that we have now received the support of the substantial majority of our lenders and facility providers. Restructuring the balance sheet is in the best interests of all our stakeholders. It will provide a sound basis for the business going forward and allow us to concentrate on offering our millions of customers good value, quality holidays."

[30W]

shares, for what they're worth are down 23% this morning, so something is happening..........good luck guys!!

[beardy]

Restructuring the balance sheet is in the best interests of all our stakeholders

I see, not especially in the interest of the shareholders, who probably thought that they were buying a share in the company. I may be wrong but, I understand that this restructuring takes the form of moving numbers from the negative column into the positive column and then paying everybody a little bit to agree. Robbing Peter to pay Paul springs to mind, but Peter is objecting.

My best wishes to all those who work for MYT. I believe that you will pull through, but in the future be aware of the mentality of your management.

[dadaposh]

as I said previously, a right shower.

A colleague has just said they are sending all senior cabin crew on a teambuilding weekend in the lakes? obviously money not that tight???

[spy]

Beardy

The plonkers who got us in this mess are no longer with us, they walked off with the family silver! Some of them are working for other Airlines and Tour Operators so we are not the only ones who need to be warned!

[Mr Angry from Purley]

Dadaposh
Cant imagine the old thousand £ sending CC to the Lakes is going to make a difference to the big picture. Given the current situ sounds like a good offer to me to keep morale up. I would also bet that the airline is a profit centre for MYT

[dadaposh]

Mr angry..... are you serious? this is a company on their knees with debts which would make bill gates lose an hours sleep.

The point being that the company is laden with chiefs, and they now want to spend more money (which they haven't got) probably being spent on something they don't need (more feathers), thought up by a guy with a degree who doesn't know one end of a plane from the other, which has taken him well over a year to compile, from an idea he got from another large company in the black, in a completely different business to the one he's in.
If you think that a shed load of cabin crew not knowing if they will have a job around xmas, having just seen a load of their colleagues/friends put on the scrap heap will think they are having a morale boost then I suggest you think again.

This is a company that not only wants a sizeable piece of the pie, but wants the lot, and to cook it their way, but employs a head chef who doesn't know how to make pastry.

So the odd thousand might make a hell of a difference, penny wise pound foolish as they say.

[qwertyuiop]

Sending a group of senior CC on a tree huging, "love you all" weekend is total bollocks. If this story is true, then I worry for MYT.

I have long wondered where people who come up with ideas like this come from. I strongly suggest they are sacked, the money saved, and put into the resurection of the company. If you asked the work force whether they wanted a stupid weekend building lego trains etc, or a proper job I'm sure I know the workers would a; choose the later and b; the slackers would waste the time and money.

Jesus, where do these idiots come from?

[Big Bus Boy]

I've been looking around and can't work out what is going on at MYT now. The bond holders said no to the swap deal correct?
Where does that leave things now, I hope there is a plan "B"?
I spoke to one pilot last week and they seemed quite happy, if a little busy, saying they had managed to get rid off the "dead wood pilots" which seemed a little harsh to me, as someone who left a while ago.
I hope that things are on the up, and would like some more info if anyone has any,

Cheers

BBB

[facsimile]

Comment from a financial website

Bondholders of my travel led by Fidelity, Society Generale, Leeman Brothers & New Star yesterday asked the High Court to block the tour operators proposals to execute a £1.3 billion arrangement which would bypass its bondholders - this one will run and run.

[Freeway]

When is everyone going to wake up and smell the roses.
I agree with all the sentiments previously aired regarding the management/board , the 6 figure pay offs and the alleged criminal financial irregularities. That was then this is now.

This is a company who's debts are £1300 million pounds. This is a company who's bondholders DO NOT want anything to do with any debt for equity swap.

In any other line of business the receivers would have been called in months if not years ago.

This is an airline with a staggeringly large debt and by continuing to trade is only prolonging the agony for everyone invoved.
Enough is enough. In business, it is a fact that unfortunately some companies do not survive, for whatever reason.

If I were in MYT now I would be saying to every single one of you..... get out now and take what you can because when ... and I mean when, not IF they go under, you will be the last guys that will be on the list to be paid. THAT IS A FACT.

I also feel very strongly that the CAA are being as toothless as ever. It is their responsibility to monitor the financial viability of any company and they are the ones that approve the AOC's. Quite plainly this is a dead company and by not pulling the plug now the CAA are leaving themselves wide open to all sorts of questions regarding their authority and regulation of a fiercely competitive industry.

My deepest sympathies go out to all of you who work at MYT. You have been forced into an awful situation by incompetent and greedy management. Good luck too you all for the future.

[terrier21]

I know Mytravel have been in the myer for a while now but with so many different intrests Flights/Hotels/ships etc. Why cant they just sell some of their (ahem) assets (Hotels/ships) and try and claw back some of the money they owe.

How many airlines have gone bust and come back stronger (maybe more than once but when they have got the right mix of ingrediants) like Flybe formally Jersey and British european. Or am I missing something? (probably)

T21

[echomikeecho]

Freeway
Utter garbage and may be a tad insensitive? However, time will tell whether you are right or not. So you say it is FACT that MYT are going bust, so just when is this going to happen? Next week, by Christmas, by the start of the summer season? Please let me know so I can email you when it does happen to say, "sorry I was wrong, you were right, oh! Yeh! And do you know anyone who's recruiting because I need a job?"

[Mr @ Spotty M]

terrier21.
You might find that they can not sell the ships and assets because they do not have any. The point is they own very little of what they operate.
This why the CAA could or as some say "should" have pulled the bond a long time back.

[spy]

Freeway

The CAA will not pull the bond as long as the banks support the company. If they did they would find themselves getting sued by the banks, remember the CAA is also a private company that has a mandate from the Government to regulate the industry. I can’t ever recall a bond being pulled by the CAA while a company has the full support of its banks. As for the company going bust we have been listening to guys like you for two years and the company is still here! I suspect it will be here for some time to come.

Cruise ships and hotels have already been sold! I feel sorry for the Bond Holders as I think they will get shafted along with the share holders, at best they will get another one or two percent. I had a look through the companies act and if the company has the required 75% of creditors on side, which it claims it has, namely the Banks, the courts are unlikely to block the deal. The threat of the CAA bond being pulled I suspect is based on the Banks walking away if the debt for equity swap does not happen and I think on balance there is very little chance of it not happening.

Consider this, the Banks are already into MYT for £800 million or more, if the company folds they stand to cough up another 200 to 400 million to cover the CAA bond! What do you think the chances are of the banks walking away from a company that has turned its operation around? If MYT goes they get next to nothing, if it continues on a sound footing and the share price rises over the next 2 to 3 years they stand to recover most of their money. The share price only needs to rise to around 15 or 20p and the banks make back their investment! If MYT continue then one of its competitors will not be here two or three years from now! Not sure which one as they all have there own problems and the low cost airlines are hitting everyone in the short sector tour market! MYT have one more hurdle and then they will be in a very strong position compared to the others!

All of the above said, it could still go wrong but I think the odds are very much in favour of MYT getting past this.

[dada]

encuraging words - i hope for all their steaks your rite spy.
as for all those doom and gloom merchants wishing the company to go bust, spare a thought for all those whoze living relies on they're myt paypacket. it must have been bad enough for them to endure this over the past cupple of years, let alone the company going under. there for the grasse of god go eye. for real.

[Big Tudor]

dada

It is indeed very hard for people emplyed by MYT to read in every media medium that their company is about to go under. It is even harder when your despatcher tells you on departure from the UK that the company will be bust by the time you get back! This scenario has happened on more than one occassion over the last 2 years. Nothing like a bit of professional emapthy. :mad:
I find it hard to feel sorry for the bond holders. They were under the impression the were investing their money in a fail safe high interest account and would be looking forward to a fat pay cheque. Since it now turns out the are not gonna get their big payout they are trying to hold the company to ransom, and threatening a court with accessory to commit fraud is not going to help their cause, IMHO. I can't help but feel similarities with the Lloyds 'Names' a few years ago.

Free means for nothing, and nothing comes for free.

[spy]

Another thought I wonder how many of the Bond Holders are the original bond holders and how many bought them cheap when they became junk bonds?

[Freeway]

Echomikeecho- I am sorry that you feel that my input is "garbage ". I assure you that I stand by what I wrote and many others agree with my sentiments.

I am equally sorry that you feel that I am being insensitive towards the guys and girls at MYT. All that I wanted to do was give them a heads up, and encompass my and many others, points of view.

I am not going to turn around and tell you specifically when the company will fold. I do not know when in the near future this will happen, I am not Mystic Meg. It, however, does not take Mystic Meg to tell you that things at MYT are on there way out.

I stand by my posting and alll that I have said in it. I believe it is a true and frank synopsis of what is on going in the unfortunate world of MYT.

Spy - how good it is to receive sensible discussion on this forum. I agree with what you are saying regarding the shafting of the bondholders, however, experience tells me that they are the last people you want to be pi55ing off. I really don't believe the company will get a favorable ruling in the courts.
Time will tell.

After all that,
I still wish all at MYT the best for the future.

[codpiece face]

I think it would make really interesting reading on this post if we knew the companies that the posters worked for. People in glass houses and all that.

[spy]

Freeway

Most of us have been through company failures several times before! I have to say I have never seen a campany or it's staff go through this sort of torture.

I do believe MYT will prevail and continue in one form or another. Make no mistake after two years we are all fully aware how close we have come and that we are not out of the woods yet! For me the worst part has been the press and some of the postings here on PPRUNE. It is sad that on a forum for Professional Pilots there is not more unity and support. You expect it from the blood sucking news paper types! But do you really think MYT staff need to be told about their situation? We know only to well!

I understand you have a valid point of view and you could be right at the end of the day but the only fact at the moment is that no one knows how this will play out! My guess is MYT will be saved by the size of it's debt, if they lose the court case then they will negotiate with the Bond Holders! My view is they always intended to go down the court route regarding the Bond Holders as they probably knew they would never agree to a debt for equity swap unless they got a large slice of the company.

[chipsbrand]

I reckon that spy's analysis is pretty good. MyTravel really ran out of their own money a couple of years or so ago. Since then what they have been doing is retrench to a core level of profitable activities. Obviously the banks think there is a profitable core there. The company has actually continued to do quite well in Canada but it faces a relentlessly competitive market in Europe. It may or may not succeed in its efforts to survive. I do not have access to any maanagement data in the company but what I can tell you is that the revocation of operating licences by the CAA is regarded by them as very much the last resort. Prior to that any company regarded as high risk goes into intensive care. My Travel has been in this condition for some while. It is an onerous process that requires almost constant dialogue with the CAA. Keeping cash flow at or above forecast is the most important single thing. There may well have to be more brand or asset sales in order to achieve this. If the cash flow does drop below the forecast that will be known soon. After all January and February are still the peak months for the taking of deposits. If the company achieves its forecasts for that period it is likely to be safe at least until the end of next summer. If it can't achieve its forecasts then it enters a new period of danger. In the meantime let us hope that the management really is in control of the cash.

The last thing the company needs at this time is any drop in consumer confidence in the product. If consumer support drops away then forecasts of doom will become self-fulfilling. What travel agents know is that if the company does fail it will prove very easy for its competitors to provide alternative capacity at very short notice. I would be astonished if TUI, Thomas Cook and First Choice do not have contingency plans all ready to roll.

If the banks have any security in the aircraft fleet they will be able to place the Airbus types very easily in the market.

[echomikeecho]

Freeway
Thanks for your measured reply. We obviously agree to disagree on both the tone of your comments and the fate of MYT. I still object most strongly to the certainty in your post that MYT is going under, however, accept it is a possibility (but I don't think will happen now) and if it does, then you would have been right. However, I'll gladly take your appology when it turns out that you were wrong and I would then also advise you to take a bit more care and thought in posting on threads that are obviously quite sensitive to many of the readers.

[HH6702]

Hopefully it will never happen and MYT will get through this but with all the press reports it doesn't look good (Mail on sunday again)

I know that the other major operators have plans in place just incase it does happen.

[colegate]

The next event is tomorrow when the judge gives his ruling on the bondholders case.

[sky9]

Guys,

I am in awe of your loyalty, however MYTravel only pay your salaries while you work for them, you are not attached to them in any other way so don't feel thay you owe them anything. If you can find a better job go and get it. If not, don't hang on until the end then shed a tear like the staff of Courtline in the 70's.
As you have already seen a steady stream of halfwits have come into the company, made a financial mess then gone away with a couple of million in their pockets. Take a lesson from them. "Loyalty" is the last refuge of a desperate management trying to keep its vital employees.
Look after yourself and your families, and the best of luck to you all whatever you decide to do.

[Thomas_Cook_757-300]

Oh please, if everyone working for a company in financial troubles left, half the country would be out of work!

[30W]

Well, as of this morning the High Court has turned down MYT's plans to force through the debt/equity deal.

MYT are to put a revised plan to the court later this afternoon for review. Desperate measures for desperate times.......

If the court rejects this next proposal, I can't see how they can possibly survive, so I hope for the sake of their employees they have some success.

Sadly, public confidence and those of travel agents goes down and down and that will not help their cause. My local travel agent already refuses to accept MYT bookings because he doesn't want to be left sorting out the mess for his customers IF it does all collapse.

[Whoops]

A High Court judge has blocked holiday firm MyTravel's rescue plan, raising fears the company could collapse.
The company had put forward a deal to restructure £800m ($1.47bn) of its debt through an equity swap that will leave bondholders with an 8% stake.

MyTravel's bondholders had rejected the deal and MyTravel had hoped to get court backing for its rescue plan.

MyTravel, whose brands include Airtours and Going Places, is due to present a revised plan to the court at 2pm.


Failed ambitions

MyTravel has offered the bondholders an 8% stake in the restructured company, with shareholders getting 4% and the rest - 88% - for its lenders.

The company, which raked up huge debts after an unsuccessful expansion drive, had earlier warned the bondholders that it may halve their stake to 4% if forced to seek permission for the scheme from the courts.

Its bondholders, including Fidelity, Societe Generale, Lehman Brothers, and New Star Asset Management, have argued that MyTravel does not have the legal right to take such action.

In addition to its failed expansion efforts, MyTravel was also hit by accountancy errors, and suffered heavily from the post-September 11 downturn in travel.

The slump left the firm with high costs and many unsold holidays, and despite efforts to cut expenses by shedding thousands of jobs and selling businesses its debt mountain has grown.

[763 jock]

24 November 2004



MyTravel Group plc



MyTravel Group plc welcomes today's decision by the High Court that the company
is able to restructure through a scheme of arrangement without the approval of
the convertible bondholders, who have no economic interest in the company.



While the judge has ruled on a technical point that the scheme cannot go ahead
as it is currently formulated, the company will submit an alternative approach
to the Court this afternoon. The court has vindicated the company's decision to
pursue the scheme of arrangement.



The company expects it will shortly be able to proceed with implementation of
the scheme, which is designed to ensure the completion of its restructuring by
the end of the year.





Ends

[codpiece face]

BBCare saying that it is going back to the court at 1400.

[mondriver]

Eh?

So which is true?

Don't the previous two post basically contradict each other...?!!

[codpiece face]

We will see at 1400 which is when it goes back to court, by the way the shares are trading up if you can read anything into that.

[763 jock]

Fron the BBC.
MyTravel rescue deal to go ahead

A High Court judge has ruled that holiday firm MyTravel can restructure without bondholders' approval.
The company had put forward a deal to restructure £800m ($1.47bn) of its debt through an equity swap that will leave bondholders with an 8% stake.

MyTravel's bondholders had rejected the deal and the court said that it blocked the deal on a technicality.

MyTravel, whose brands include Airtours and Going Places, is due to present a revised plan to the court at 2pm.


The shareholder meeting will be held in December and the restructuring will be in place by the end of the year, the company said.

[mondriver]

763 Jock

I'm puzzled now...you say BBC report it has gone ahead, yet the Reuters Business site states that the judge threw it out of court, but will reconsider an alternative plan at 2pm....


:ugh:

[763 jock]

From the horses mouth...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4037471.stm

[Curious Pax]

It seems straight forward to me - looks as if the judge was forced to block Mytravel's request, but informed them that it was just on a technicality. Fortunately the technicality is easily remedied which is why they are going back to court so quickly for another go. No doubt all will become clear at some point after 2pm, but from the behaviour of the shares it would appear that the stock market sees it that way too.

[Munkeh]

This just in...........

Last Updated: Wednesday, 24 November, 2004, 13:46 GMT



MyTravel to rework rescue package

MyTravel can relax a bit if it cuts its debt burden
Holiday firm MyTravel is preparing its second visit to the High Court in a single day to try to get its rescue plan approved.
On Wednesday morning, a judge threw out its initial proposal on a technicality.

But he agreed with the firm that it does not have to give bondholders - who oppose the plan to restructure £800m ($1.47bn) of its debt - a vote.

The firm, whose brands include Airtours and Going Places, is due to present a revised plan to the court at 1400.

It wants to restructure £800m of its debt through an equity swap, which will leave the bondholders with an 8% stake.

A shareholder meeting will be held in December and the restructuring will be in place by the end of the year, the company said.

"The court has vindicated the company's decision to pursue the scheme of arrangement," the company said.

Failed ambitions

MyTravel has offered the bondholders an 8% stake in the restructured company, with shareholders getting 4% and the rest - 88% - for its lenders.

The company, which raked up huge debts after an unsuccessful expansion drive, had earlier warned the bondholders that it may halve their stake to 4% if forced to seek permission for the scheme from the courts.

Its bondholders, including Fidelity, Societe Generale, Lehman Brothers, and New Star Asset Management, have argued that MyTravel does not have the legal right to take such action.

In addition to its failed expansion efforts, MyTravel was also hit by accountancy errors, and suffered heavily from the post-September 11 downturn in travel.

The slump left the firm with high costs and many unsold holidays, and despite efforts to cut expenses by shedding thousands of jobs and selling businesses its debt mountain has grown.

[brabazon]

So that's it then. MyTravel lives on, so was it such a big deal after all? I doubt they would have gone to the High Court unless they thought they'd win. So shall we close the debate and come back in 6 months time and see how they're doing? (withdraws under the onslaught of further posts)

[RoyHudd]

And now the result please..........

[facsimile]

More from Reuters. Doesn't seem to make things any clearer

UPDATE 2-UK's MyTravel claims court win, bondholders demur
Wed 24 November, 2004 14:28

(Adds bondholder quote)

By Gerard Wynn

LONDON, Nov 24 (Reuters) - UK travel firm MyTravel MT.L has claimed a victory, subsequently denied by its bondholders, after London's High Court ruled on a dispute over who gets what in an 800 million pounds ($1.49 billion) debt-for-equity swap.

The court said on Wednesday that bondholders of indebted MyTravel would get nothing from a liquidation of the firm, but did not decide on whether to exclude bondholders from voting on MyTravel's proposed restructuring, which they oppose, saying it would consider new evidence from the company that afternoon.

...

The High Court said bondholders would get nothing from a liquidation -- which is usually enough to call a scheme of arrangement -- but also blocked the scheme from going ahead on a technical point, saying it would consider fresh evidence from MyTravel on whether it can hold a scheme of arrangement.

The confusion led to a dispute over victory.

"MyTravel Group PLC welcomes today's decision by the High Court that the company is able to restructure through a scheme of arrangement without the approval of the convertible bondholders, who have no economic interest in the company," MyTravel said in a statement.

But a source close to bondholders told Reuters they would appeal against the decision on their role in a liquidation, and also denied MyTravel had scored a victory.

"The court said their proposed scheme of arrangement was unlawful. How is that a victory for the company?"

[colossus]

"MyTravel was expected to proceed with an £800m ($1.5bn) debt-for-equity swap after a UK court ruled on Wednesday that bondholders would not have an economic interest in the tour operator formerly known as Airtours if it were to go into liquidation.

In his ruling judge Justice Mann said the company can restructure its debt without the approval of bondholders. But Mr Mann rejected the proposed scheme of arrangement on a technicality and gave MyTravel the opportunity to present a new scheme later on Wednesday."

FT On line

Clearly indicating that they will be able to proceed with a resubmitted plan, as per Curious Pax's posting

[763 jock]

Court allows MyTravel to exclude bondholders
Wed 24 November, 2004 15:38
RELATED REPORTS
MT.L Profile Report
Business description, 3yr and interim financials, key stats/ratios & analysis.
| 12 pages | £10 | Details


LONDON, Nov 24 (Reuters) - The London High Court said on Wednesday that MyTravel MT.L could exclude holders of 216 million pounds of bonds from its restructuring, reversing an decision earlier in the day after new evidence from the company.

UK leisure firm MyTravel, formerly Airtours, has been battling with its bondholders over how much of its equity each of its creditors get in a 800 million pounds ($1.49 billion) debt-for-equity swap.

The decision clears the company to proceed with its debt swap, which the bondholders had opposed.

[FD Standby]

Webmaster,

Please can we change the erroneuos title of this thread!!

(PS. Get in there you beauty! Another step closer to proving a lot of people wrong!!!)

[giovane]

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA !!!!!!!!!!!


Webmaster as above, please change the TOPIC TITLE.
Thanks.

MyTravel rescue package approved

MyTravel can relax a bit if it cuts its debt burden
Holiday firm MyTravel has won High Court approval for a rescue plan which bondholders had tried to block.
The London High Court said on Wednesday MyTravel could exclude bondholders from its plans to restructure £800m ($1.47bn) of its debt.

Bondholders oppose the firm\'s plan for an equity swap, which would leave them with an 8% stake.

Mytravel returns to court on 20 December to have the restructuring scheme finalised.


THE BBC

[waco]

Yes it is good news......but this part of the "big picture" was unlikely to be the real problem.

The big question is " will the companies now be asset stripped and sold off so the financial houses can start to get some money back" If that is the case....will anything be left at the end ?

Look forward to seeing who the banks put in charge.......

Perhaps the end of the begining insted of the begining of the end ?

[sfbbus]

waco, they haven't got any assets. The banks are hoping for a turnaround, which the company is doing, and when the share price rises they make a killing. My travel has gone from making a loss to breaking even this year, with a projected profit next year. When it makes a profit,the share price goes up. The banks see a potential for making the money on the shares.

[Big Tudor]

I would second that Brabazon, but I would like to ask one question first. The judge ruled that the plan could not proceed due to a technicality. If the bond holders had not taken this issue to the High Court and the plan had been implemented with the technicality in place, would the entire restructure have been nul and void?

[TJ747]

im slowly beginning to see the picture...lol. the banks will make a killing when the share prce rises... i spose it only has to go up from say 4p to 8p and i take it they have doubled their money if this is how it works.

so now i wonder... where is mytravel getting its working capital from and now the company will be owned by the banks etc.... as they will have full control.... does this mean that once they have got their money plus a bit more....they will sell or walk away loaded.

do these people also get a slice of profits or are they relying on gaining their money from the rise of shares.

hope someone can help

cheers

tj747

[sfbbus]

A comment from lovejet would be nice now that the court has ruled in favour of MYT and we are here to stay. I hear that some of our competitors had business plans which relied on MYT going bust. The boot may be on the other foot in future.

[Paterbrat]

Does the money MYT has recently been able to get back from the travel agents and which it had accidentaly overpaid them, help the picture any?

[eggc]

Go for it MYT...

I am that confident in the future i ahve just bought 23,750 shares in MT @ 4p each....£1000 investment....

Fingers crossed...

[dotcom driver]

Good news....... best of luck to all

[PA38]

Remembering the dramatic crashes of holiday firms over the years.
Do you think joe public who works very hard to save for his holiday, is going to trust Mytravel and it's sister companies?
All this press exposure about the state of the company will make the public loose confidence, and WILL bring about their downfall.
They have to do something dramatic yesterday to convince Mr Public that the future is rosey.
How many people on the street understand bonds and issue rights?
All they know is the firm they are going to trust £1000+ of their hard earned is rocky, so guess what first choice here they come......

[Munkeh]

So this press exposure WILL bring about MyTravel's downfall then will it PA38? Good job we've got you to warn us! Do you not think everyone involved with MYT have become very used to watching the affect of these press reports over the past few years? The reality is that it hasn't made nearly as much difference as you might expect, possibly because people don't know who MyTravel are and therefore don't associate them with their holiday brands and possibly because when it comes to the crunch people just vote with their wallets. The vasy majority of MYTs passengers are Sun readers who not only don't understand bonds and issue rights but more importantly don't care about them either. Besides after this all dies down a bit I don't think many people would be surprised if the somewhat tainted MyTravel name was dropped, possibly even to be replaced with "Airtours". After all it's only the name MyTravel that's got a bad press. Thanks for the warning though!

[TJ747]

i would have to disagree with the last post.... to be honest... joe public wont even remember what has been happening in a few weeks time.

you would be suprised at the amount of people who dont know who they are flying with or what tour operator they are booked through... its quite frightening to be honest.

im not saying joe public are stupid or anything but when u walk into you local going places which is near enough in every town.... the public put their trust in the staff that book that holiday, alotof agents are selling the hotel and location etc of the holiday... not because its with airtours or first choice etc.... many people wont know what operator the agent has booked it through.

with the press over the next few days although it will allways have some negative comments... they have achieved a very serious and ambitious goal... they are turning the company around and if anything... will put confidence back into the public to say... yes, we have had problems, who hasnt... but we are getting back on track and doing what we do best... offering good quality, value for money holidays.

personally... i was sh*****g myself today when they were in court as i dont think i could manage another airline going down on me... been there, got the t-shirt... i wouldnt wish it on anyone. however... they have done it and proved alot of people wrong.

good luck to all and i think we now have a good future... still alot of work to be done but were on the right footsteps.

many thx

tj747

[PropellerPaul]

Yeh but no but Yeh but no but yeh but no but yeh but no.. My Travel WILL survive this.. Vicky Pollard ses so! In my experience (14 years in aviation) I think they will survive. They will downsize further but they will survive.. The management of 'My Travel' will 'outline' a further restructuring plan along with the courts in december & they will survive. Why don't they revert back to the 'Airtours' brand, it seemed far more successful? :ok:

[CaptainFillosan]

I don't think Joe Public will NOT give two twopeny damns. They will believe that the court has acted in THEIR favour I suspect.

No point in getting maudlin the ball is rolling in the right direction.

MYT have no longer got a problem in my view - but the bond holders have. They thought they were going to make a killing. They probably will, but they will have to wait a lot longer than they anticipated. Some a@se's may be on the way to the door right now I fancy. !

eggc - smart move if I may so! ;)

[Mouser]

Simple question for anyone, a mate who travels with My Travel to Barbados in Feb is due to pay the balance on his holiday shortly, should he proceed with this or look elsewere.

[cabot]

Im travelling with My Travel LGW to barbados on the 1st of jan and are just wondering if i would have been better spending the 3 grand on beer !...........better get insurance.

[ebenezer]

Mouser - tell your mate to pay it with his credit card.

:cool:

[763 jock]

Mouser and cabot. MYT is a fully bonded ATOL operator so you don't need to insure your holiday and flights (unlike when you book with the loco's!!). If it went belly up, you would get a full refund or be flown home by another carrier. You only need to insure your health/luggage/personal belongings as you would with any other tour operator. Enjoy Barbados :cool:

From the BBC:
I've booked a holiday with MyTravel. Should I be worried?

Like most large holiday operators, MyTravel's packages are covered by a cast-iron bond: as long as you have booked and paid, you will either get all your money back, or your holiday in every last particular.

If MyTravel were to go belly-up while you were on holiday, the worst that could happen is that you might have a few forms to fill in.

There are a few caveats for its budget airline, MyTravel Lite, however.

Its flights are covered by no bond, and so there is no guarantee of compensation or an alternative service if you're stranded.

But if you booked the flights with a credit card, or through a reputable tour operator, then even here you will be due for some sort of redress.

[spy]

In answer to the question you will be safer booking with MYT than any of the other tour operators right now as MYT will be on a firm financial footing very shortly! That may not be true of all the other tour operators. Some are about to face some pain of their own now that MYT are here to stay!Once this deal goes through MYT will be the strongest tour group in the UK and possibly Europe! Before I hear screams of not true just wait and see.

Not that I think anyone is going bust and even if they did all the tour operators are fully bonded so your money would be safe and you would be brought home at no cost to yourself, that’s the advantage of booking through a tour operator. So for those of you booking with MYT you can do so with confidence. You can also do the same with any of our competitors for that matter even if they run into problems over the next year or so. Very pleased for MYT and I hope all our competitors survive and prosper!

To all the clever buggers who have told us how MYT were doomed and destined for the scrap heap and all those self appointed experts out there, not to mention the press! Many thanks for all your support, consideration and compassion, NOT!

Be certain when it is your employer going through the mill, I won't be as thoughtless as some of you have been over the last two years! Some of you have appeared to take great pleasure in others misfortune! :mad:

[FD Standby]

Well said everyone!!!!

To the likes of PA 38, we have heard it ALL before. It seems that for the last two years, you and your like have been, and always are wrong!

Give it up!

[beardy]

If I understand the dynamics of the still-proposed 'restructuring' of the accounts then, of the £1000 worth of shares that I could own now, post restructuring I will own £40 worth (or less) since 96+% of the shares will have been handed over to former creditors to pay off the loans that they gave to, what was at the time, a poorly run company (and, as is now obvious, a poor credit risk.) Moreover some of my earnings from these shares will be handed to the CEO to pay his £2,000,000 bonus for executing this deft move. I understand that a judge will probably rule that this manoeuvre is legal. Hmmm

If I had owned those shares I think that I would feel as though the bank had just robbed me in order to recoup their losses brought about by their financial misjudgements. Mind you if I had had shares in those banks I wouldn't have lost my money. Perhaps I should invest in those banks, but hang on, was that the only financial misjudgement they made or will make?

This is getting too difficult. I need a holiday. Now who should I book with The Sherrif of Nottingham or Robin Hood? Oh I remember now, The Sherrif was a real person and Robin Hood was a legend.

[Vref+10.....to 44]

Spy:

Now who is forecasting doom and gloom for other IT Airlines.

Most of which (mine included) predict healthy profits this year.

Of course they are gonna make contingency plans, I would expect MYT to do the same if the boot was on the other foot.

Far as I know though, none have rushed out and bought 20 new airplanes for November the 25th.

Yes, we are all in it together, and we all suffer the same.

Not many points to be scored by anyone on here.

Vref.

[unwiseowl]

A share worth 4p now will still be worth about 4p after the D4E because the company will have more value.

[waco]

sfbbus

Are these not assets ?.....

Profitable North American operations (Canada & USA)
Very profitable Scandanavian operation
Tradewinds
Cresta
Manos
Panorama
Direct

Not to mention runway slots,hangars some of the aircraft leases

Would this not produce a tidy return ?

just a thought......

[beardy]

unwiseowl,

Thank you for that. I do need lessons in how these things work. Could you answer a few questions for me?

Why does the company have more value? There are more shares for the same size of company albeit one with a smaller debt. The company appears to have changed the way it achieves it's goals that is true, but if so why don't the lenders achieve a better return on their loans by accruing interest on them (if the new methods are so good.) Banks are not yet tour operators, will they sell their newly gained shares to recoup the cash or will they sell some of the assets that they will have just gained or are they about to become tour operators? Do they see a profit in this or are they out to minimise losses? If I were a shareholder, with the banks about to join me as such, bearing in mind that my share of the company will have been reduced to 4% of what it was, what should I do?

BTW, are the management shareholders? if so will their share have been reduced by the same proportion that mine would have been?

[sfbbus]

Waco, yes they are, but I was talking about the a/c and ships etc which the company used to own.When things started to go wrong MYT quickly disposed of those assets such as a/c to leasing companies, and then leased them back. This meant at the time that the company was less attractive for pure asset stripping, which was probably a factor in the banks keeping it going, thank god. After the restructuring MYT will probably be the most secure, and leanest of all the tour operators. The new accounting practices which have been implemented, and were part of the initial problem, will also have to be used by other companies, so they have some pain to go through. Hopefully we will all survive, and all have a secure future. Not a scenario that Lovejet wants to see, but I'm sure the rest of us do.

[svw8700]

So, we have still not heard from 'lovejet' and the other doomsters. The silence is golden!

[Tamer]

So what happens to the 75's ? MyTravel said they would be for dispersal and they would be an all Airbus fleet, apart from keeping a couple.

Will they still be redundancies on the scale suggested before ie 120 pilots. I hope now that these positions will be secure.

[Torque2]

The 757's are still going but to a later timescale. The redundancies and transfers have all been processed. No change.

[sfbbus]

The last figure I heard for redundancies was around 40, but with quite a few taking voluntary redundancy, and a large number of F/Os in various holding pools, managers are now admitting that they will probably end up recruiting for next year. Crazy to let so many good guys go.

[unwiseowl]

The company will be worth more because it will be debt free and therefore viable. I'd say the shares are worth buying at todays 5.5p, but not totally without risk. I say not without risk because the fat lady, alough she's left her dressing room, hasn't sung yet.
The fly in the ointment is the bondholders: They are very, very angry and might just bring the company down, "cutting off their noses to spite their faces". There is some logic in an institution like fidelity behaving in this way, because this D4E is setting a terrible precident for how bondholders are treated. Anyway good luck MyTravel, IMHO survival is best for all in the airline industry.

[Alberts Growbag]

Post voluntarily removed.

[bigbusdriver06]

Alberts Growbag, how's your CRM?

[Alberts Growbag]

Post voluntarily removed.

[pinhammond]

If I believe what I have read in today's newspapers MYT is by no means out of the wood. To start with the court case has so far resolved nothing. The scheme of arrangement was shown to be defective and has to be resubmitted. The new hearing is set for Dec20. Second, the bondholders have threatened to appeal. They may or may not win that but it certainly creates uncertainty. Third MYT as a group seems have more debts than the rest of the UK holiday industry put together. It has no future unless those debts can be eliminated. Just turning them into bank owned equity does not eliminate debt. It just creates more flexibility for the banks to recover some of their money. MYT is in a corportae zimmerframe. The only people who can determine whether it gets back to some level of fitness are not the banks; the future of the company now rests with its customers. If they buy holidays for next year it may survive. If they do not it is stone dead. Ask any travel agent what he/she would recommend just now. The answers is probably just what the customer wants - a hassle free holiday. In what way is MYT in a position to provide that?

Would you buy a holiday from a zimmer frame attendant?

[Thomas_Cook_757-300]

Alberts Growbag

You really don't have a clue do you?

MYT never where bankrupt and won't go there either for a start!

Tony Blair has nothing to do with MyTravel's turnaround as a company and if you bothered to read facts and figures you would see the demand for the package holiday is back on the increase!

These employees aren't just faceless people either. I have a cousin working as CC for MYT and sister as part of the overseas team. They will not be losing their jobs and will continue to work for MyTravel Group for a long time to come. Your wishing all these people out of a job! I wish the same to you if that’s your game!

Why you write "I don't see why I owe you guy's any different treatment" is beyond me - Who asked you to! Your not a politician and your no one special so why would they want any ‘treatment’ of you?

Why you seem to think you can stop a/c flying is laughable! What are you? Some kind of god or do your words insinuate something more sinister? That question is certainly playing on my mind!

You need to spend your time on something that is somewhat more constructive rather than slagging of companies and acting as if the world owes you something because guess what... it doesn't!

pinhammond

After years of studying media, I can safely tell you and appropriately inform you that you shouldn't believe everything you read or see in the press!

Regards
Thomas_Cook_757-300

[spy]

Growbag

We have just risen from the ashes and will become a very strong force in the market once more I believe! It was not so long ago First Choice was close to going under and I suspect others will come close over the next few years. Unlike you I hope they all survive and evolve. MYT has won a second chance by transforming it's business, it will continue evolve or fail, as will any other tour operators who do not adapt to the changing market place. You speak of our customers as the bottom end of the market; they are just hard working people who are looking for a good cheap holiday for their families. They are the back bone of the mass Tour Industry customer base who have paid your mortgage for the last twenty five years, you might want to show them a little more respect!

Do you think you have the market on having worked for failed airlines? Your right of course MYT should have gone to the wall! I am glad that the former directors did not get to ruin the lives of twenty thousand employees. I am very sorry that some of the directors responsible for this mess have found employment with other operators; I really hope none of them are working for your employer!

MYT is still here for several reasons; it owed enough money that the Banks could not allow it to fold. The Banks now stand a good chance of recovering their money. You could be right about the Tony Blair link, having AA as our accountants may well have helped our case as well as the size of the debt! But the main reason it is here is due the the hard work of it's staff and new board.

As for being a parasite! Grow up the company was fighting for survival like many others and the Banks were trying to avoid losing their shareholders and investors money. The sentiment you find a fiction may be lacking on your flight deck but MYT has always been a great place to work because of the people. So I for one make no apology for being a little sentimental about this company.

Out of interest do you think blocking aircraft out of spite is the act of a professional aviator? You sound like a very bitter little man; you have my sympathy for whatever has made you such a twisted individual! The flight deck is no place for that sort of attitude perhaps you should consider your suitability for the job if you can't leave your bitterness on the ground! Your attitude does neither you nor your employer any credit :ok:

[763 jock]

Albert, when something crappy happens to you, does it make you feel better to see someone else suffer the same bad luck? I felt for all the people at Laker, Air Europe, Dans, Eastern etc as their careers fell apart. It happened to me in 1991, and like them, I found another job, but I would never be as cold hearted as you. Aviation is a very small place, you might meet yourself coming the other way soon!

[Thomas_Cook_757-300]

Hi,

I fully agree with spy! You need to grow up and as with spy, I very much doubt your worth on a flight deck! I sincerely hope that I never present myself onboard a flight of yours!

MyTravel don't happen to serve the bottom end of the market as a matter of fact! They meet the needs of all and some holidays don't come cheap! As with all Tour Ops many holidays come very cheap and I believe that Thomson serve this so called end of the market well as I am inundated with emails advertising their holidays for £99! MYT serve all markets and operate excellent holidays in all areas! Our holiday to Santorini next May with MYT hasn't come cheap and I am certainly not of the bottom end nor or any of the other customers who use MYT!

You must believe you are some kind of superstar who is better than everyone else. Keep telling yourself that if that is your reason to get up in the morning and keep yourself going! I guess you haven't noticed that each person in this world is equal to the next. Your no better then somebody living in the darkest council estate in the world nor any worse then a football star! Deal with it!

Regards
Thomas_Cook_757-300

[Torque2]

It appears that "The Truth" is often in the eye of the observer and not necessarily those experiencing reality. I'm sure that your belief that you are"really nice to fly with" fits that concept.
MYT guys and girls are amonst the most decent people you could work with, have gone the extra mile and a bit in the cause.
I would suggest that having been around before it all began its time you bitterly retired.:D

[waco]

........just a thought all........

Is'nt there a court case pending with the EU concerning their alledged blocking of MYT's take over of FCA all those years ago.

Could be worth a massive sum of money to MYT........

[Dogs_ears_up]

Please see below some questions I have about MT's situation. I have a basic understanding of matters financial, and therefore may be missing something obvious. If anyone can answer the questions, many thanks.

This is not an attack on MT, or staff - there is no hidden agenda: It is simply a request for information.

If I understand correctly, there is a chance that major Bondholders will appeal the decision, and might even take a view that a "suicide" option is acceptable, as a deterrent to the repeat of MT's actions by other companies in the future. Is this a realistic possibility?

I have heard that some MT Directors stand to benefit personally from the restructuring: I do not know enough about finance to be able to tell whether or not this is just business as usual, or is exceptional. Can anyone comment?

If I understand correctly, once the restructuring is complete, the Banks will recoup their losses once the share price has risen sufficiently. Is anyone able to advise as to a theoretical share price required for this to happen (although we may not yet know what the final total number of shares in circulation will be).

[sfbbus]

waco, you are correct. That court case is still pending. Tha fact that the MYT takeover was blocked was just another of the factors that led to the MYT losses. I just wonder who this growbag works for. From my green fingered friends I believe that to make a growbag more fertile, you have to fill lit with bull**** ! Although I would question this guys fertility. That's probably the root cause of his problems.

[spy]

Growbag, nice guys dont have to tell everyone else how nice they are! I am sure you feel you are just telling the truth and if you really feel your post was reasonable fair enough, says it all!:yuk:

[CosmosSchwartz]

Dogs_ears_up - We all know who you mean, but before someone has a go at you for it (it has been known to happen on occasion on this site!) I believe MT is actually the designator for Thomas Cook. I think MYT is VZ:ok:

Growbag, growup.

[lurkio]

As we are talking financial matters here, the MyTravel shares are listed under MT. .
Hope that clears that one up.

[Thomas_Cook_757-300]

As we are talking financial matters here, the MyTravel shares are listed under MT. .

Its MT.L! :D

Regards
Thomas_CooK_757-300

[Paterbrat]

Feeding your desire to be flamed I know, however Alberts Growbag your statement that you were around before CRM is very self evident. As for your statement: 'If I'm in a position to block an MYT aircraft into burning more fuel, staying in the hold one more time, or generally making sure this parasitic organisation goes under then I'll do my best to see it happens." simply reveal exactly what really is inside Aberts Growbag. A real heap of sh*t.
Your CRM it would seem is matched only by your professional?? approach to aviating, your attitude and your otherwise generally unsavoury nature! It seems unfortunate that so many other ladies and gentlemen have to share the same airspace with your undoubted abilities to make a nuisance of yourself.
Whilst others put forward logic for the demise of MYT you only offered bile and ill wishes. A sad reflection on your seemingly poisonous nature.
Most of the people in aviation I have known in over 40 years in the business wish only the best for others in the profession when trouble arises, there are always the exception, a minority thank God, you it seems, join those dregs.
:yuk:

[LGS6753]

Dogs -

I can answer one of your questions.

Yes, the management team will benefit personally from a successful restructuring (source: Daily Telegraph).

This is common practice in the upper echelons of the business world, and is designed to keep a management team together rather than departing for pastures new and thereby jeopardising the deal.

LGS

[Munkeh]

TC_757-300,

Sorry to be picky but lurkio is right - the stock exchange symbol for MyTravel is MT. (with the dot)

Where it's shown as MT.L with a ".L" attached, I believe this denotes it as belonging to the London Stock Exchange (as opposed to .NY for example)

[spy]

PPRunPop

Many thanks!

[CosmosSchwartz]

Sorry, never occurred to me it might be stock market designators being mentioned. Why can't we just have the one and stick to it?!
ICAO, IATA, FTSE, DOW, ****!:D

[spy]

Pinhammond

I am sorry due to the rantings of Grow Bag I missed your last post. You make some interesting points and in truth MYT is not out of the woods but it is now on a level playing field with all the other tour operators. It stands as much chance of being here in the long term now as any of it’s competitors.

I am given to understand the technical sticking point is one of wording and procedure and is very unlikely to affect the outcome unless the lawyers mess it up.

You say that MYT will still have debt! Not true other than £140 million of leasing debt. The Banks will in effect be the majority shareholder. In due course they will sell their stake on the stock market or to another interested party and recover their lose. MYT's debt in effect is written off.

The trading figures for this year and next strongly indicates the company will return to profit in the next year or so. The Bond Holders will no doubt appeal and have grounds due to the technical issue, however; my information is this is a done deal with 99% of the Banks already signed up!

You also said the MYT debt is more than the debt of all the other tour operatos put together. Not true, it is scary to see how much debt some of the others have. Do some digging for yourself especially on the German stock market.

In conclusion MYT are a major force in the global tour market making operating profits in Canada and Scandinavia this year and on target to break even in the UK. They are just about to throw the Zimmer frame away in exchange for a set of running shoes.

[yeoman]

Granted, the manner in which AG made his posts was inane but isn't there a grain of truth in his thoughts on dragging prices and therefore other IT operators down?

Nobody would want to see anyone out of work but again, the "brothers in arms" bit is a little transparent in some of these posts. Why not be honest and say that, amongst many other reasons, I wouldn't want MYT to dump a load of crew on the market because it would give my managers the perfect excuse to screw me. "Take it or we'll take on someone who will". Could you honestly see a redundant pilot turning down a job on principle because the company offering that job has just used his/her unfortunate position as a stick to beat the workforce? Bit uncomfortable that.

Meanwhile, good luck MYT, whilst we don't need all the IT capacity we have in the UK, we need the instability even less. The ITs need to, and would seem to be doing something about, tackling the impact of the LoCos. TC 757-3, I'm not sure they capacity is increasing as such, more that the seat only market has been discovered by them wot makes decisions!

And I couldn't possibly subsidise my mates bar bill to the extent that would be required if MYT went pop!

Oh and by all means check the Dax. Fling enough smelly about and some will stick. Just what we need really. Yet another post full of doom and gloom.:( :(

[spy]

Yeoman

A grain is about all there was! The prices were being dragged down by the Low Costs more than MYT. Though granted a year or so back they did dump loads of holidays on the market that helped no one except the customers of course. The only subsidising anyone did was the Banks who are only interested in getting their investment back and certainly would not have kept it all running if they did not think they had a fair chance of doing so. The core business was there, it just needed managing by a board with some skills and half a brain, which we now seem to have.

As for mud etc, we have put up with some terrible rumours over the last two years, some true, some exaggerated and some just plain fiction. Many operators have heavy debts at the moment and to claim MYT's debt was more than the others put together was plain not true.

As for brotherly love as you put it, strangely many others and I never like to see folks out of work or under threat of same. Most of us take no pleasure in seeing other airlines in trouble; some on these forums like AG appear to revel in it. The fact is this industry is in a mess and yes we need to see a reduction in capacity. In an ideal world everyone would cut back but in the real world each companies board wants to increase market share at the expense of the competition, that is the real problem.

[yeoman]

Fair one Spy. It's called greed. The people who ram the capacity are in it for a few years tops and market share = bonus. At the end of the day, they waltz off with a big one, win or lose. The likes of you and me? Put it this way, I've got a mortgage to pay and a good year ain't going to kill it off!

Salut!:ok:

[spy]

Anything is possible but the long hauk program appears to be expanding not contracting. Also the leases on the 767's and n particular the A330's have some time to run, so on balance I would say it is a rumour.

[dadaposh]

Heard there is a problem with b767 fleet? found on hangar checks. All 3 can't be correct can it?

[smudgethecat]

the 767,s are going after the hadj, mon are having at least one if the rumours are true

[spy]

Not sure about the 767 according to the last info I had they were here until 2006! No one has mentioned them going next year as far as I know.

[Mr @ Spotty M]

dadaposh
I hear that you are indeed correct, all 3 grounded.
smudgethecat.
I don't know about all 3, l did hear that one might be staying, but one should be flying for Monarch by the summer.

[fiftyfour]

Today's Daily Mail. Comment on the financial page editorial.

Quote:

'The Jo Moore prize for corporate transparency goes to My Travel.
While the financial experts were digging over the entrails of the Pre-Budget Report, the troubled holiday firm revealed that it would be holding the exraordinary general meeting to approve its debt-for -equity swap on Christmas Eve. By tradition, that is the preferred date for firms seeking to dodge scrutiny.'

[Paterbrat]

The memsahib already spotted that one, her shares being somewhat depressed. My explanation that if one was too busy to attend then the Yuletide news at the meeting was not going to spoil the following day was not met with any enthusiasm.
One lives in hope of better news in the coming year of course.

[cabot]

anyone tell me on a lighter thread about my upcoming flight with myt from gatwick to barbados.what is the inflight entertainment on the myt a332 and are they fitted with separate seat back screens!

[smudgethecat]

i wouldnt worry to much about the ife config mate, chances are it will be it in its normal state ie, u/s "awaiting receipt of spares"

[Lo Cost]

Bondholders get appeal hearing date
08 Dec 2004
MyTravel’s bondholders’ leave to appeal against the ruling which judged they had ‘no economic interest’ in the company will be heard on Monday 13 December.


If leave to appeal is granted, the appeal itself will also be held on that day.

On Nov24, the judge ruled that the bondholders had no economic interest in MyTravel, effectively allowing the tour operator to proceed with its restructuring plan without the bondholders consent.

Since that judgment, MyTravel has announced that the EGM, when shareholders and creditors will vote on the restructuring, will be moved from Dec20 to Dec24. The tour operator has previously said that unless a restructuring is implemented by the year-end, the CAA is likely to revoke its license.

MyTravel has also announced within the past week that it is appealing against an FSA fine imposed ‘for contravention of the listing rules.’ The alleged incidents took place between July and October 2003.

[Big Wings]

Cabot. The LGW - BGI has been farmed out to Excel for the winter at least by MYT, so a 767 for your carriage awaits!

[GrahamK]

G-OMYT is now in full MyTravel colours.

[Dengue_Dude]

It ought to be an airbus.

It ought to be G-ONFI and named in honour of all the past 'executives'.

They've acted out a new slant on Julius Caeser's famous phrase on arrival on Albion's shores.

I came, I plundered, I left

Sound a little bitter? Yep that would be about right - I made the mistake of believing 'them' a few years back and put my money where my mouth was and invested in our future, like so many others who work there.

Have you spent your money yet xxx?

three letter man's name removed - otherwise some smart lawyer might go for more of my money

[waco]

same old same old

[Mr @ Spotty M]

I understand My-Travel lost at the Court of Appeal today.
This was from the bond holders, which means that they can object to the poor offer given to them.
I wonder what will happen now, a revised offer from My-Travel?

[dadaposh]

Yearly results published 15/12/04

Will the banks accept a revised offer? and how much?

[Big Tudor]

Operating profit of £8 million, versus operating loss of £360 million last year.
Pre tax loss of £190 million versus £910 million last year.

Whilst I don't think it is yet time to be cracking the champers, it is certainly heading in the right direction. It is certainly a long time since the words 'Profit' and 'MyTravel' were used in the same sentance.

Regarding the bond holders, all the judge said basically was they can go back to the original judge to argue their case again. He didn't say anything about their economic claims.

[cabot]

Anyone care to give some updated information regarding the latest with My Travel?..........Will i be flying MYT 330 or 767 Excel on Jan 1st out of Gatwick-Barbados........or will i be going to collect refund at travel agent as they go down the tubes?

[Thomas_Cook_757-300]

Hi,

I can asure you that your holiday is safe! Don't worry and don't cancel it! MyTravel are now probably safer then Thomson or Thomas Cook.

Regards
Thomas_Cook_757-300

[TJ747]

CABOT

Hi there,

On the 01 Jan the BGI flts which i believe are cruise flights aswell will be operated by Air Atlanta 747 and Britannia 767. If you have a MYT flt number then you will now be going on the 747, the Britannia flt has been arranged for some time now as we have 2 flts going down to BGI within and hour of each other.

There is a lot of subs comming up at the moment, generally the BGI/MBJ flights, various airlines include AIR LUXOR A330, EURO ATLANTIC L1011, YES AIRLINES L1011, AIR ATLANTA 747 are being used over the next few weeks.

I think all the subs might have something to with the 767's going to the hadj and i believe they may also be sending 1 or 2 A330, hence the number of subs.

I f you need any more info mate, then pls pvt msg me and i will do all possibe to help.... i working the 01Jan too.

Many Thx

TJ747