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Val d'Isere
7th Nov 2004, 17:03
Paula Radcliffe's just won the New York City Marathon!

Well done, Paula! :ok:

(Thought it was worth a mention!) :O

Mr Chips
7th Nov 2004, 17:06
...and got paid a fortune for it.....

Nice that she didn't need to give up just because she was out of medal contention.....

Sorry - ever since Athens, I have no time for this Prima Donna

2 sheds
7th Nov 2004, 17:20
..or any other of the prime donne of professional games playing who are busy lining their own pockets in the name of "sport".

Go Smoke
7th Nov 2004, 17:40
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. No idea whatsoever. Nada. Zip. Zed. Not a flipping clue.

What a callous, souless lack of understanding you show. You comments seem toxic and full of tabloid mentality.

The performance by Paula in NY was one of the gutsiest races I have ever seen and was deeply moving.
I was a competative athlete for many years (middle distance only but..) and understand the dedication and sheer hard work that goes into getting to where she is.

Paula gave EVERYTHING she had in Athens - so much so that she damaged herself in the process - she pushed further than perhaps anybody else would/could have.

Which makes it even more amazing to behold what she has managed to do today.

It is NOT about money by the way however bear in mind that it is her job - I have a job too at which I earn money and I presume that you have too. Do you work for free?

The amount of time an athlete has to put in and the punishing regimes they have to endure to get to the top is almost unimaginable and thoroughly deserving of any prize money they may win.

I could go on and on but somehow I think this is a waste of energy.

Your complete lack of understanding and insight is both brutal, unpleasant and toxic. Shame on you

Jerricho
7th Nov 2004, 17:59
Sorry Onan. I've retracted my post. I pulled out at the last minute.

(Postus Interruptus?)

Hilico
7th Nov 2004, 18:11
A lack of understanding can't be 'both' brutal, unpleasant and toxic. Perm from any of 'both brutal and unpleasant', 'both unpleasant and toxic' or 'both brutal and toxic'.

2 sheds, I don't give a fig for all the hoopla either.

Go Smoke
7th Nov 2004, 18:36
I just typed a lengthy reply to your question only for my connection to drop out.
I can't muster the energy to try again.
I do feel very strongly about the subject and did respond accordingly.

It can not be answered in a couple of throw away sentences and is deeply wrapped up in the mental, physical and tactical nuances that it takes to be an outstanding athlete.

The focus one has to have on one physical state and mental strength is consuming.
It is a work of epic proportions to even be good but to become potentially the greatest female distance runner ever is (believe me here) probably beyond your imagination.

At the end of the day Paula Radcliffe is a human being. Athens is probably the biggest stage it is possible to imagine. The hope of a nation rested on her shoulders.
Her body blew up and would not, could not respond. As an athlete this is frightening enough in itself without all the added pressure.
Her heart broke on that road in Greece and I cried with her because I believe I had at least an inkling of what it meant.
The preparation, the pressure.
She should have pulled out before the race started but I guess she thought she could run it off - it turned out she couldn't and as a runner I could tell even from a couple of miles into the race that she wasn't comfortable. It didn't get better but she bravely fought on.
She damaged herself very badly that day both Physically and more importantly perhaps mentally.

The race she ran today was all the more amazing because of this history. She truely was magnificent today and although her body is not fully recovered she had the mental strength to pull her through (astounding)
Slowest marathon of her life and still she had the desire and will to win.

I agree about overpaid prima donnas like Beckham et al but don't chuck this amazing athlete into the same pot as them.

It is so different - she earns her money with every step she takes.

Onan the Clumsy
7th Nov 2004, 19:13
Sorry Onan. I've retracted my post. :confused: :confused: Jerricho I'm confused now :confused: :confused:

:p

Jerricho
7th Nov 2004, 19:35
I initially removed my post from above because I realised I really didn't care. However, seeing this changed my mind:

the greatest female distance runner ever is (believe me here) probably beyond you imagination.

Newsflash - I don't want to be the greatest female distance runner ever. Beyond my imagination........ha.

Being the best ever would mean knowing your limitations leading up to something like this as well as during it. Pushing yourself to achieve your goals physically and mentally is all well and good. You mention "She should have pulled out before the race started but I guess she thought she could run it off". Sorry for my cynicism, but it reminded me of Gail Devers, the US 100 metres hurdler, who entered her race with a known injury, and the resultant "fall" she took at the first hurdle looked very suspect indeed.

Actually no, I was right the first time, I really don't care.
:rolleyes:

Go Smoke
7th Nov 2004, 20:06
*thud*
If you don't care then don't keep chipping in with your useless, I'll informed, wide of the mark comments.
Give me strength.

IB4138
7th Nov 2004, 21:25
She still reminds me of one of those nodding dogs, on the rear shelf of some cars!

Dead_Heading
7th Nov 2004, 21:46
<Spelling Fanatic mode >

It's "ill informed", not "I'll informed".

</Spelling Fanatic mode>

Go Smoke
7th Nov 2004, 21:53
Ha Ha, that's quite true - she does have an ungainly style.

Dead_Head

Thanks for the tips. You are quite correct. Sloopy typing and grammar on my part ill try and avoid it.
To keep it on topic any thoughts on Paula Radcliffe

Jerricho
7th Nov 2004, 22:34
*thud*

Wow, you sure showed me.

So I take it you disagree with my comment "Being the best ever would mean knowing your limitations"?

Davaar
7th Nov 2004, 22:37
Well:
____________________________
To keep it on topic any thoughts on Paula Radcliffe
____________________________

Who is Paula Radcliffe?

Frankfurt_Cowboy
7th Nov 2004, 22:50
Medal free brit joggist.

phnuff
7th Nov 2004, 23:37
Paula did fantastically well and I salute her . I have been involved in competative sport a a reasonable level (but a million miles lower than her) and I can assure anyone that what we saw today was more a triumph of mental rather than than physical strength. Yes, she was paid for it, but she still had to do it and all the money in the world can't beat the demons that must have been in her head.

Paula Radcliffe. - You are one in a million.

Cameronian
7th Nov 2004, 23:47
While we're on the subject, let's hear it for Jane Tomlinson!

Mr Chips
7th Nov 2004, 23:52
Go Smoke I am afraid you will need slightly better reasoning than you have so far displayed.

Paula Radcliffe pulled out of the Olympic marathon when she was passed by athird runner and therefore out of the medals - she was only a few miles from the finish. In the media frenzy, it almost got forgotten that other British runners did finish the race, including an amateur from Leeds.

Paula Radcliffe ran the NY marathon for money - lots of it. Others run the same distance raising money for charities.

Paula Radcliffe is not our greatest ever female long distance runner.

I couldn't give a rats patootie about these Prima Donnas of sport, but I do have a right to an opinion.

Oh yeah, and didn't some british girl win TWO GOLDS at Athens? Just asking

phnuff
8th Nov 2004, 08:38
Paula Radcliffe ran the NY marathon for money - lots of it. Others run the same distance raising money for charities

Sure and dont you think that if those thousands who do it for charity had the ability, that they would also do it for money - not that I wish to take anything away from them because they are the salt of the earth and all power to them.

In Paula's case, its her job.

Oh and yes, I bet nobody will forget the ther girl who won two golds . . .

Tanni Grey Thompson

Go Smoke
8th Nov 2004, 09:43
Go Smoke I am afraid you will need slightly better reasoning than you have so far displayed.

No I don't, all that's needed is you read my posts again (slower if necessary) Read what I'm actually saying not what you think I'm saying.

Paula Radcliffe pulled out of the Olympic marathon when she was passed by athird runner and therefore out of the medals - she was only a few miles from the finish. In the media frenzy, it almost got forgotten that other British runners did finish the race, including an amateur from Leeds.

All you are doing is stating fact here?! Not quite sure what point you are trying to make.
PR did not ask for all the media hype and attention in fact, she shunned it and only granted one interview before the games to the BBC. All this was placed on her shoulders by others. Go and blame reporters and directors for lack of attention on other runners. Those elements are not under her control and if comments about prima donna's are based on thinking like that then we may as well stop here because some people are never going to 'get it'

As far as pulling out goes then we have discussed that already. PR's body had blown up well before she stopped running and the only thing that was keeping her going was her amazing will power and almost unbelievable grit and determination.
I'll say this again - She gave everything thing she had to give, she could not have tried harder.
What more would you expect from a human being?

Paula Radcliffe ran the NY marathon for money - lots of it. Others run the same distance raising money for charities.

There seems to be a very basic premise here that you just don't understand.
This is her job, her career - just like you or me she has a mortgage and bills to pay and this is how she earns her money.
I'm not quite sure what you would expect of a professional athlete.
It's not possible for them to have a regular job and then break world records on running tracks for laughs and a slap on the back.
She gets paid for doing a job just like everyone else the difference being she probably deserves her pay check more than
most.

Paula Radcliffe is not our greatest ever female long distance runner.

*sigh*
Go back and read my post a little slower this time and concentrate.
I did not say that PR is our greatest ever female long distance runner.
What I said was this: The focus one has to have on ones physical state and mental strength is all consuming.
It is a work of epic proportions to even be good but to become potentially the greatest female distance runner ever is (believe me here) probably beyond your imagination.
PR is trying to become the greatest she can be.
Personally, I think the discussion is academic as barring serious injury or other catastrophe than she will become the greatest.


I couldn't give a rats patootie about these Prima Donnas of sport, but I do have a right to an opinion.

Sure you do - we all do.
However, some opinions are based knowledge and others are based on tabloid journalism and bar talk.
Still both opinions but I would argue that one is worthless in an informed discussion.

Oh yeah, and didn't some british girl win TWO GOLDS at Athens? Just asking

Tanni Grey Thompson and Kelly Holmes both did and they are, as are many others, both outstanding athletes.
However, again I'm not quite sure what point you are trying to make here?
This is a discussion abour PR.

All the best.





jerricho

So I take it you disagree with my comment "Being the best ever would mean knowing your limitations"?

*slaps forehad*

So I take it you do care about this then?

This is such a basic that just looking at the keyboard thinking about explaining this to you is sapping my will to live.

I would partly agree with a statement like that yes however, it is not applicable in this context.
We are talking here about a human being being who is potentially the best.
She is certainly the best female marathon runner in the world today.
I do not think she is the best ever (yet)

Please try and concentrate here

But she is still learning (she is nearly at the top) and do not forget that we are not perfect machines we are human and frail and we have bad days and things go wrong and we do not always get things right but that does not invalidate who we are and what we have acheived and what we have the potential to acheive.

Biggles Flies Undone
8th Nov 2004, 09:57
I'm with Mr Chips on this. If the Olympics had been a normal road race with 10th place paying $10,000 do you really think she would have pulled up when she dropped to 4th so close to the finish?

I felt sorry for Paula and she certainly didn't need the trial by media - but she is a professional athlete and runs predominently for gain not glory. Personally, I don't think anybody who has accepted prize money should be allowed to compete in the Olympics.

eal401
8th Nov 2004, 10:03
So Paula is bad because she does something for a living to earn money? Hmmmm, two-faced hypocrisy lives. Or maybe it's just the green-eyed monster at someone who has more money for a "perceived" easy job.

Mr Chips, please tell us of your marathon exploits. When you can acheive similar feats I'll listen to you. Until then, shut up. Ditto to all other critics.

I am no particular fan of Paula, but she can do something I do not have the mental or physical stamina to even try. As a result, I am not arrogant or self-righteous enough to criticise her.

Unlike others.

SilsoeSid
8th Nov 2004, 10:07
I can see it now;

BBC Sports Personality of The Year.
PR
I think I'll start a new thread.

Go Smoke
8th Nov 2004, 10:11
I'm sorry, I just cannot agree with you on this. The fundemental premise being that this is all about money and nothing else.
This simply is not true.
Perhaps we need to remind ourselves of the extremely hard work that has to be put in to get to the top in athletics. Oh, and that would be a 7 day week 365 days a year too.

PR wanted that olympic gold medal more than any kind of prize money that could have been offered of that I can guarantee you.

She probably fought harder in that race than if she had been running for her wages (that's what they are by the way)

I think that if that had been the London Marathon for instance that she would of pulled out and if she had run would have stopped a lot earlier.

I don't think anybody who has accepted prize money should be allowed to compete in the Olympics.

This is an altogether different discussion which raises some intersting points that I would be more than happy to discuss but it does belong in another thread.
It would be a very different looking olypics though wouldn't it!

Mr Chips
8th Nov 2004, 10:37
Go Smoke once again I see that you are right and we are all wrong, and we don't know what we are talking about and only you can have the insight. Rubbish.

I stand by my (and incidentally many others') opinion about teh Olympic marathon. She pulled out because she was out of medal contention. Don't try and tll me that it was coincidence that her body "blew up" just as she slipped into 4th place.
It's not possible for them to have a regular job and then break world records on running tracks for laughs and a slap on the back.
So no amateur runner has ever set or broken a world record? Are you sure?

Ok, perhaps my comments about being paid for marathons have been badly put. Of course people get paid for a job, I guess my real problem is with the sheer scale of the fees paid to the "elite" in races like the London marathon, diverting the attention from the "fun runners". I still have a problem with the amount of money prima donna athletes and sportsmen get paid, but I suppose "thats life" My comment about money for the NY marathon is because I don't believe she ran it to "exorcise" demons, it is my opinion that she ran it for the money. Slightly less heroic

Eal401 I may not like or agree with what Go Smoke has said, nor even the way he has said it, but at least he doesn't have to sink as low as your comments
shut the f*** up
self-righteous little w****r to criticise her.

Why does it matter whether I can run a marathon? I've never declared war on another country, does that mean I can't comment on the Iraq thread?

eal401
8th Nov 2004, 10:41
sink as low as your comments
Aah, poor little diddums. I'll amend to post to protect you poor little head.

So, could you run a marathon and finish ahead of thousands of people? Come back when you can.

Mr Chips
8th Nov 2004, 10:54
Eal401
So, can you write a post without being offensive, and answer points that have been put to you? Come back when you can

eal401
8th Nov 2004, 11:13
Yes, I can. But I'm generally not slagging off someone who can do much better than me at something.

Have a nice day.

teeteringhead
8th Nov 2004, 11:23
It is so different - she earns her money with every step she takes. Yeeesssss

about 16/22/$28 for each step she took in the NY Marathon.....

Biggles Flies Undone
8th Nov 2004, 11:28
I really dont know why some people have to view all this through rose tinted specs! Im told that Paula is a genuinely nice person but (like all top athletes) totally focussed on what is best for her.

I ran the London Marathon back in the 80s just to prove a point, but I was much happier and more competitive over 10 miles. More relevantly, I was shacked up with a girl who was first reserve for the Olympic Marathon so I know just how much dedication is required to get to that level. Two tough training sessions a day and a full time job not a problem Paula has to contend with.

The Olympics should be all about amateur sport. Theres no appearance or prize money, just the joy and pride of competing so why allow the professionals in? Easy they guarantee more people will tune in to watch and the games will generate more money. Personally, I think that is a real shame.

eal401 is there any way you can make your point without personal attacks? To me your approach smacks of someone short on facts and unable to debate logically.

Cameronian
8th Nov 2004, 11:29
I posted this in the Paula Radcliffe thread as it seemed appropriate and that thread needed something charming and positive, but there was no response - too busy slagging each other off I'm afraid. So here it is again.

Let's hear it for Jane Tomlinson!! What a girl - The new "Iron Lady"!

27mm
8th Nov 2004, 11:35
Right on, brother; this Lady sets an awesome example for all of us

eal401
8th Nov 2004, 12:00
unable to debate logically.
But it's OK to call PR a prima donna?

Double standards rule, eh?

yintsinmerite
8th Nov 2004, 12:37
I guess my real problem is with the sheer scale of the fees paid to the "elite" in races like the London marathon, diverting the attention from the "fun runners"

Bring on the rose tinted spectacles please !!

Its supply and demand just like everything else. There are very few people in the world who can do a marathon in the time PR (or any of the other top runners do). That is why people want to watch therefor television etc. will pay the money to cover it. Do you for one moment think that there would be the commercial interest to watch the fun runners with out the likes of PR? No, of course not. The glamour that the top runners give marathons, raise public interest and directly contribute to the reasons people are able to raise millions for charities.

OneWorld22
8th Nov 2004, 12:47
I'm just sick of Paula Radcliffe to be honest. But of course that's just my opinion.

Steve Cram makes me a bit ill as well when he's commentating, he seems to be close to having an orgasm when Paula runs..."Come on Paula, that's it Paula!"

The Olympic Marathon is the ultimate long distance race, it's not London in the Spring or New York/Chicago etc where the weather is always benign and the course is flat.

Athens was a classic Olympic martahon, hot and with many hills etc. Face it, she just wasn't good enough when it came to the supreme test.

phnuff
8th Nov 2004, 13:16
she just wasn't good enough when it came to the supreme test.

For sure, she wasn't good enough in Athens - who could argue that one. But she was yesterday

Now, I don't know the nationalities of people on this board, but pulling down our successes is a very British disease. As a nation we appear to have a problem with success in any form, be it sporting/music or business.

"Stiff upper lip chaps. Dont try to win, its much more acceptable to just take part and come second"

Onan the Clumsy
8th Nov 2004, 14:04
I have no idea who she is and couldn't give a toss anyway. If it's her job and she trains so hard, but might not win, then she has a job with no base and plenty of comission. Of course she has to make the sale first to get any dough.

Jerricho
8th Nov 2004, 16:43
Go Smoke, congratulations.

You have just been awarded the "easiest person in the world to wind up" award for 2004. Did it take you long to train for? :E :E

(Don't post angry now ;) )

OneWorld22
8th Nov 2004, 16:45
Methinks somebody has a little crush on the fair maiden with the rubber neck! :}

Watch out, Steve cram will get very jealous. :\

Cameronian
8th Nov 2004, 17:21
Well, it looks like we're on our own with this one 27mm!

Mr Chips
8th Nov 2004, 17:38
Sorry - I had to wait until i found out who she is!!!

:ok: :ok: :ok:

Go Smoke
8th Nov 2004, 18:40
ROFLMAO....I see you just got out of school for the day.

You'd know if I was wound up or angry - It's a useful lesson in life when the scales drop from your eyes and you realise that not everybody's responses can be measured against your own.
When you stop becoming the centre of your own world this may dawn on you.

Wishing you all the very best.

Jerricho
8th Nov 2004, 20:21
When you stop becoming the centre of your own world

Nah. I just want to be the centre of your world. :rolleyes: Go on, give us a hug.

Go Smoke
8th Nov 2004, 21:11
Oh, okay then. Keep your hands above the waistline though.

Onan the Clumsy
13th Nov 2004, 15:20
Another bump to the top

Cornish Jack
13th Nov 2004, 21:13
Cameronian and 27mm
Having a 'senior moment' in identifying Jane Tomlinson. Is she the lady who, while suffering the advanced stages of cancer entered and COMPLETED a TRIATHLON??
If so, I can only offer total admiration for a performance which puts the so-called professional athletes in the shade. There is a certain irony, methinks, in the fact that her endeavours have raised more than 1,000,000 ...... FOR CHARITY!!
It may have been an editorial oversight, but Monday's Indie had the report of the Radcliffe 'comeback' and this lady's heroic efforts on the same page. The juxtaposition, if intentional, missed the opportunity to put these things in proper perspective by giving the first two thirds of the page to Radcliffe and the lower third to this truly gallant lady. Ah well! the Brit journos doing their usual immaculate job. Plus ca change!!:yuk:

Just noticed that, although I posted at 2115, the last entry timing remains resolutely ay 1520 - thus keeping it away from the top of the list...???? Nah... couldn't be ..... could it??? Just because I'm paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get me:hmm: