Room 101

[VoicesFromTheCreche]

you know the idea, "the worst thing in the world" ends up in Room 101 - you own personal hell.

well..

thinking about the current state of military aviation, what would go in your room 101? For starters, here's our choices:

1. Merlin stores support
2. Composite Tail Rotor Hubs
3. A certain small factory just outside Yeovil
4. The Political Correctness brigade

Can anyone do better?

VftC
:ok:

[Training Risky]

1. Equal Opportunities awareness training.
2. New Labour hypocrites who send their children to fee-paying schools.
3. New Labour in general.
4. Anything to do with the JAA
5. £400+ fee for Class 1 medicals

[joe2812]

The Eurofighter project

[moggiee]

Is that room EH101?

[Training Risky]

.... or squeaky 101 sqn squealing in rm 101?.... earning a VC while flying a VC to fight the VC in VT.

Excuse me now, the nurse is calling...

[BEagle]

Private Finance Initiatives

A certain Group Captain

Anyone who "Hears what you say"

Management Initiatives

Hoon

Blair

.....and the mad vegetarians on bicycles who impose such stupidly low speed limits in Oxfordshire!

[VoicesFromTheCreche]

the phrase "Plan for success, manage failure"

...would be good if the success:failure ratio was biased in favour of success...

[moggiee]

by BEagle: .....and the mad vegetarians on bicycles who impose such stupidly low speed limits in Oxfordshire!
and the A420 used to be such a nice road. 50mph - honestly!

[airborne_artist]

Senior orficers who spend more time in HQ covering their @rse and licking other ****s/having it licked, than out in the field finding out what the troops are doing.

[KPax]

1. Aircrew Retention Bonus
2. Brevet's for Non - Aircrew (FC)
3. The phrase 'WE NOW KNOW WHERE WE ARE GOING' that we hear at every brief on the future of the RAF
4. MOD Procurement procedures

[sweep complete]

I'm guessing the Canadians will probably throw the Cormorant in now their tail rotors are starting to crack.

[PileUp Officer]

1) Right-wing, conservative, fascist military b*stards who hate/have a go at/don’t understand anyone or anything that’s slightly different from the norm. (Most of the military)
2) Americans for not ‘wanting to vote against their Commander-in-Chief during a war’ – if he’s doing a rubbish job then get someone better. Tenuous link- but hey!

[Lionel Lion]

The f***ing stupid new car parking system at Brize with its crappy coloured passes leaving the downroute aircrew parking miles from ops and filling the carpark with hirecars. Which w***er will get promoted from that f***king stupid idea. Oh and not forgetting about not publicising the resurfacing of said carparks in time/properly leaving deployed aircrew cars to be removed by a contractor and a bill of £80 passed. And as for the idea of colured carpasses! Don't worry there's only 550 aircrew/groundcrew between 3 sqns to get into 130 spaces now. F***ing commissioned moverknob.

Glad I got that off my chest. Thanks for the thread idea :D

[SteveStephens]

A country where parents can get locked up for their children playing truant, but a school can authorise a termination without telling the parents!

Bullsh** buzzwords...seamlessly, overarching, underpinning!

A Service who spends more money on policy than they do on their troops! Pound for Pound, Person for Person etc

DHE

DHE

Oh did I mention DHE?

[akula]

Commanders(at many levels) who are MINDFULL of subordinate's reservations concerning a given course of action when said course of action is UNAVOIDABLE(latest military parlance for totally avoidable if planned for in the correct manner)...:yuk: :yuk:



ALWAYS assume NEVER check

[buoy15]

I was thinking that Honesty, Integrity and Trust might be good candidates, but on reflection, Bliar, Straw, Buffoon and Campbell have already beaten me to it!!

Love Many, Trust a Few, Always paddle your own canoe!:E

[Evanelpus]

Anyone 'who thinks outside of the box'

Paper hand towels in loos. What are they all about, I've never managed to get a whole one out of the dispenser.

Shoe laces

Bleeding heart liberals

...the list could go on

[Father Jack Hackett]

The problem with "thinking outside the box" is that when too many people do it, there aren't enough people left thinking inside it!

Call me a bluff old traditionalist ("you're a bluff old traditionalist"), but if people were a little less preoccupied with what happens outside the box and looked after the basics, we wouldn't have many of the punk decisions made that result in the screwed up "blue sky" initiatives of Airships/Politicians/bureaucrats.......

[Spotting Bad Guys]

Draws breath....rant on....


'U Need 2 Know' (Actually, just throw in any DCC propaganda)

'Performance Indicators' (Particularly the 'traffic light system' where we spend more time figuring out how well/how badly we are doing than we do actually completing the task)

Tier 1 Deployed Accomodation i.e. 18' x 24' tents, non-aircon, flaps open at both ends, single skinned, designed in the 50's, still in bl@@dy use in the 00's......let's just go and buy the US Deployable kit...please?

Anything to do with IRT/IDT/CCS/Emerg IRT where the Regiment seem to believe that poking a bayonet into a pile of sand trying to find mines is part of our primary function and not a load of old b****cks/empire building/trying to turn the rest of the RAF into gunners.


If we are supposed to be lean and ready to go anywhere, any time...lets cut the extraneous cr@p and get back to doing the important things!

Rant off


SBG:mad:

[spankymonkey]

Voices from the creche - Jesus, you people are touchy! if you find yourselves feeling unhappy or disillusioned go surfing or move to D/E site

BEagle - you live in Oxfordshire AND you're unhappy? If we could set up some kind of exchange PM me

[Duncan Bucket]

Spanks

If D/E site is so great, why the rush to get to Oxfordshire?

[StopStart]

D/E site? I'm assuming we're meant to know what that is?

:=

[greenhaven]

Spanky,

judging by the time of the night (morning) you posted your comments, D/E Site must be really bad!! Those late night sim slots must be a killer...

Get some sleep, man!
:hmm:

[Evanelpus]

I've just thought of another one.....

Mothers who drive one child less than a mile to school in a people carrier, that really grips my $h*t.

[BEagle]

No idea what D/E site is, sorry.

But British West Oxfordshire is a very fine place - except for the nanny-state speed limits springing up everywhere thanks to the sandal-wearing bicycle-brained buffons of Oxfordshire County Council's highways department. Try the Henley to Oxford road which recently sprouted spurious speed limits and paint marks designed to dissuade overtaking as well as daft 'Speedwatch' roadside notices..... Ask anyone at Benson.

Poop Poop! And to hell with cyclists! To Room 101 with the lot of them!!

4 star unleaded - the smell of freedom!

[SteveStephens]

Organic Food! (always used to be that way when I was a child!)

American experts (whenever we have something to discuss out rolls an American expert)!

Media hype

DHE

Rank creep (used to have flt Lts doing the work in Gps/Cmds and now seems to be sqn ldrs)

Computers with every sort of software but the one you need.

CHoTs

[moggiee]

evanelpus

I drive my daughter 1.25 miles to school in a people carrier - but I then go straight on the remaining 6 miles or so to work.

Why a people carrier? Well, a ) we already had it when we moved to this area and selling it would have lost too much cash and b ) with it running on LPG it costs me less per mle than any big diesel car would.

[Evanelpus]

Moggie

The mothers I refer to also park on corners and double yellows to drop off the solitary child then drive back home. I should know, I live next to two of them!!

I'm sure you are an excellent driver but nearly all of the mothers round here who have a people carrier couldn't drive a nail into a piece of wood.

It's just my bug bear, not everyones.

Happy driving!

[BEagle]

You actually admit to being an Urban Espaceman, moggiee..??

Brave man for coming out!

Diesel? Diesel?? Chap - it is OK for farm machinery and tractors, but it is simply not an officer's fuel. Bottled fart fuel is OK if you must - because Greedy Gordon doesn't tax it as it's some sort of huggy-fluffy green initiative.

[VoicesFromTheCreche]

Spanky.

Have you been on the Duty Free vino tinto you brought back from "the Desert?". Or maybe a bottle of Vin Rouge, gratefully donated by one of your compatriots from their recent sojourn with the garlic-eating surrender-monkeys? - I guess (no, make that hope ) you're not on the flypro this morning after replying at such a late hour.

We're not touchy, spanky, just a light hearted attempt at a humourous posting - I thought we were being quite kind to be honest, we both know what we really could have put on our list!

Cheers!! (or Sante, or whatever they say in portugal...):ok:

[airborne_artist]

Beags

Try the Henley to Oxford road which recently sprouted spurious speed limits and paint marks designed to dissuade overtaking as well as daft 'Speedwatch' roadside notices..... Ask anyone at Benson.

Could be a sore point at Benson as a lad from the station, his wife and one kid were killed in an RTA on Gangsdown Hill (the long hill below Nuffield/Huntercombe) just over a year ago (report (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/3179204.stm)), as was a biker in another similar accident, almost on the same spot a few weeks later.

The Wallingford-Reading road also has a bad record - something like 6 deaths in five years, although the Benson-Oxford road (the Dorchester bypass) where another load of white paint has been applied doesn't seem to have had such a bad record.

For once I agree that they had to do something, although I'm dubious about the execution.

[moggiee]

BEagle - I certainly do not drive any Froggie built plastic toy! Mine is a good old, large petrol engined, autogearbox equipped 7 seater USA built hunk of metal.

As for diesel - the diesel version of mine is European mainland only dog.

Please note: car was bought before the Eyeraq war. It does not imply any support for America, it's leaders, it's policies or it's fast food manufacturers.

[BigGrecian]

1) Pay as you Dine
2) Defence White Papers
3) Media coverage of conflicts such as Telic
4) Pay as you Dine

[BEagle]

And as the average American now weighs 10 lb more than they did 10 years ago, no doubt it's got plenty of room!

Running on bottle fart fuel means that it wouldn't be allowed in the Channel Tunnel, doesn't it?

airborne_airtist, yes, the road on the Nettlebed side does have a sharpish bend at Gangsdown Hill, but bear in mind that's where the old road ran before the aerodrome was built. The run down Crowmarsh hill to the relatively new roundabout needs care, but isn't dangerous. The old lethal B4009/A4074 junction has now been replaced by a roundabout - but the unreasonable plethora of seemingly arbitrary speed limits between the A4130/A4174 roundabout at Crowmarsh Gifford and Sandford on Thames are just plain daft! To Room 101 with the lot of them!

[airborne_artist]

Beags

the road on the Nettlebed side does have a sharpish bend at Gangsdown Hill

It's not the bend (also lethal, guy I know was killed by a White Van man there) but the long straight(ish) section as you come down/up to the Crown pub. Was 3.5 lanes wide, with inevitable results.

Perhaps better if we put all the idiot drivers into Rm 101, and leave the roads safer for those who know the limits of their car and their driving skills!

[moggiee]

Indeed, the liquified fart tank prevents use of the tunnel - but as www.speedferries.com are nearly as quick and a good deal cheaper then I don't care to much. At least you can get a cup of tea on the ferries.

32p/l gives me a price equivalent of 45mpg - can't be bad.

[BEagle]

Ah yes - the excellent SeaCats. Used them on the Dover-Oostende route and for £15 extra you got priority loading and unloading, a free meal and a guaranteed table in 1st class. But the idiots at Hoverspeed closed the route and tried to compete on the Dover-Calais run instead. So instead of a decent break of about 2 hours, it's now a queue for the Tunnel, sit in the car for 30 minutes, then an hour across northern France just to get back to the Jabbeke highway - and why drive past the tunnel just to get the 'Cat? To Room 101 with Hoverspeed, I say!

Unless, of course, you're driving a yank tank running on bottled fart fuel!

[MostlyHarmless]

Brevet's for Non - Aircrew (FC)

You *are* kidding, right?!

[Man-on-the-fence]

But British West Oxfordshire is a very fine place - except for the nanny-state speed limits springing up everywhere thanks to the sandal-wearing bicycle-brained buffons of Oxfordshire County Council's highways department. Try the Henley to Oxford road which recently sprouted spurious speed limits and paint marks designed to dissuade overtaking as well as daft 'Speedwatch' roadside notices..... Ask anyone at Benson.

Beags I am currently sitting within the confines of that department (fixing computers and generally surfing Proon) and I totally agree with every word you have said, idiots the lot of em.

My list
1. Liberals
2. The chunnel
3. Health and safety bullsh1t
4. Hoon and Bliar
5. Focus groups

etc etc etc

[Tonkenna]

Capability Holidays.
Drivers who hog the middle lane and/or leave their fog lights on all the time.
Divorce Lawyers.
The current government.
Football


Tonks:)

[ppf]

Wales.

ppf :ok:

[moggiee]

ppf - are Dolphins and Porpoises OK?:D

[fatobs]

Culdrose................

need I say more.

[BEagle]

Not sure, moggiee - but I'm sure that Tonkenna could advise you about penguins and Upland geese. Quite a few of the latter to be seen near the Base Aerea Gringo ATC tower in the Islas Malvinas, eh Tonks.....:E

And anyone who thinks that there are sound military reasons for keeping the QRA force on down there - they too can go to Room 101!!

[Miserable Old Git]

My Ex wife

Divorce solicitors

Mobile, hidden, sneaky speed cameras

Rugby – I’m sorry but throwing yourself around in the mud and putting your head between another man’s legs, despite popular opinion, is simply not for officers.

The chap who decided to close Chivenor and keep Valley open - Worst decision ever.

Beags,

A good reason to keep southern QRA – It used to keep me away from my ex wife for 6 weeks every year – Tip Top times

[Wee Jock]

I'd chuck in:

'Investors in People'

estate agents

traffic calming

most of the A1

plastic cutlery (should be plastic not-cutlery)

John Prescott

[Krystal n chips]

If there's any room left
Recruitment "consultants"--low level vermin one and all !

Highways Agency tossers who cannot be bothered to switch off the overhead signs or update them as to traffic conditions

Middle lane morons and those who think cruise control is the best thing since sliced bread !

Customer Service--oxymoron--agents !

Daily Mail, Sun, Mirror, Star "readers".

A certain ex girlfriend---weights optional to ensure she never surfaces to inflict herself on humanity again.

Footballers !

Any politician you care to name--not just the usual suspects ! My MP has suddenly surfaced after 4 years of obscurity--wonder why ?

[Yarpy]

1. Tony Blair
2. New Labour
3. George Bush
4. Political Correctness
5. CCTV
6. Government databases
7. All forms of political doublespeak.

Time we had either a revolution or (better) a military coup.

[Maple 01]

1. Options for Change – Conservatives gutting the mil whilst claiming to support it
2. Frontline first - as above
3. Nicholas Soames - Fat arrogant t*at
4. The Peace Dividend - more jobs less money
5. The 'Air Defence' F-3 Tornado - Better off arming Chipmunks

[Daf Hucker]

Room 101 in the AWC at Waddo is the 51 Sqn crew room!

[ppf]

moggiee yeah they are fine just got a thing about Wales!

ppf :E

[flipster]

In no particular order:

1. 'professional' footballers
2. the media
3. politicians
4. the not insignificant percentage of our 'leaders' who seek only the serve themselves

ps Old Git - There's absolutely nothing wrong with playing rugby - I've played it for years and it hasn't done me any harm - except for a frozen shoulder, bad knees, knuckles and neck, as well as various scars and broken teeth!

Still, playing the game was my decision and I take full responsibility for that - I just wish our namby-pamby, politically-correct, nanny-state lordships would take some of the responsibilty for their constant c0ck-ups!

[althenick]

1/ Scottish Parliment:mad:
2/ Tommy Sheridan:mad: :mad:
3/ Faslane Peace Camp:E
4/ The Tw@ that Forced me to take a Project Planner's position in The MoD and subsiquently damn near destroyed my career as an Engineer:yuk:

... god I could go on but i'd only bore you :(

...Oh and ALL the Sea Harriers closely followed by WEBF - Mind you he'd probably jump in after them. - Just kidding mate!:D

[Pureteenlard]

MIDAS - The Motorway Incident Detection And Signalling system
This jolly piece of kit (for which I am responsible in Cheshire) is the automatic system that sets the overhead signs that "Highways Agency tossers who cannot be bothered to switch off"
Just look out for the loops in the road and the poor bastard in the day-glo jacket, hunched over to keep the rain out, who is fiddling in the roadside cabinet trying to get the damn thing to work properly. It will be me . . .

And on the subject of Motorway Signals a lot of them were installed in the early 70's and they're still operating reliably . . . ish thirty years later.

[Melchett01]

Here's my vote for room 101

My desk officer
The entire admin branch
Civil servants
That tosser of a WO at HQ STC who told me I couldn't go have a Bergen to go to Iraq and said I could either have 60kg worth of sausage bags or to take a suitcase. F****ing chisselling wan*er prbably doesn't even have a passport let along go on deployment (you may have guessed this certain person annoyed me).
The entire supply branch
My desk officer
Fat WRAFs who can't even waddle their way to level 3 on the AFT.
PC nonces
Bliar and Buff
And birds with hairy arm pits.
Oh yes and Cherie Bliar for being a sanctimonious tosser.

[BEagle]

....who probably has hairy armpits in any case?

[ZH875]

Time we had either a revolution or (better) a military coup.
Why do you think we keep having defence cuts, and other peoples wars in other peoples countries - Not enough troops left for a coup of any size. Maybe Bliar and Prescott aren't that stupid after all. Better put both back in 101.

[Gainesy]

Time we had either a revolution or (better) a military coup.

Where do I sign?:suspect: :E

[pr00ne]

Yarpy and Gainsey,

What! You seriously want the military to run the whole country? They can't make a decent job of organising, equipping and motivating less than 180,000 people, let alone 60 million.

BTW,

Remind me again, what is the punishment for mutiny?

[Melchett01]

Remind me again, what is the punishment for mutiny?

Isn't it Courts Martial followed by immediate cessation of choccy rations for all involved?

But you could always try extreme provocation as a defence - any reasonably impartial Judge who likes fox hunting and hates the left will agree with you, let you off and recommend you for a peerage.

Tally-ho, up the revolution!:ok:

[Anton Meyer]

I propose the following:

1. Arrogant and conceited aircrew - there are still some of them, albeit not on PPRUNE of course.
2. ISS - the ECC
3. Mobile phones in confined spaces
4. Deep Trench Latrines
5. Iraqi insurgents
6. American Private Security Details in Iraq
7. Mortar, rocket and rifle rounds landing in the perimeter
8. Fun-sized CBA plates
9. Mosquito's
10. UHT Milk

That will do for now.;)

[VoicesFromTheCreche]

The road planners of Cornwall.

Oh and the slow witted drivers on such said roads that dare'nt go above 35 miles an hour - which seems to be the unofficial cornish speed limit.

Cant believe that truro is perhaps the only city in the land that does not have a bypass / motorway in, through, over or under it. Infact there are no motorways in this EU funded armpit of europe.

:* :* :*

[Training Risky]

What! You seriously want the military to run the whole country? They can't make a decent job of organising, equipping and motivating less than 180,000 people, let alone 60 million

That comment can't be applied to the majority of the armed forces who are at the rank of Flt Lt/Lt RN/Capt Army and below!
We are the ones who actually do the work and don't care about the knighthood or appointment to the board of BWoS.

Or do you prefer the shambles in power at the moment!

[Roland Pulfrew]

PROONE

Your comments are harsh to say the least. :* Many politicians acknowledge that if some of the other ministries (health, transport, social security, etc, etc) were as well run as "the armed forces" (please do not insert MOD or DPA here) then there would be a lot less waste, better organization and more efficiency in those ministries.

[pr00ne]

Training Risky,

I was a Flt Lt and that comment most certainly IS aimed at such folk, one thing any *star upward has in his cupboard is the fact that at one time he/she was a Flt Lt!

Roland Pulfrew,

My comment was harsh because I see nothing funny or witty in the idea of a military coup!
As for the effeciency of the military, come on, get real! If you like living in a military dictatorship then fine, otherwise it is totaly irrelavent to any other form of existence.

I have seen the "military machine" at work from the inside, from the outside as a contractor and also most recently from legal contractual involvement, I know a complete horlix when I see one.

[inditrees]

Well here is my list for the moment, but stand by cos its likely to be added to.

(1) My RCMO

(2) Lawyers (bast***s)

(3) the Ex wife

(4) Aircrew coverall Mk 16 sage

(5) N.I

[Training Risky]

Well PR00NE, you must have been SUCH a great asset and useful Flt Lt and pilot that you jacked it all in to become a lee.... (sorry, commercial lawyer)

Thanks for your service, don't let the door hit your as* on the way out!

If only we had the efficiency of the legal profession - we could sue each other in a continuing circle of blame:yuk:

[DK338]

And my ten pennies worth:

1. Ex officers who insist on using their rank as a title (Maj/Sqn Ldr Bloggs - T0$$ers)

2. Fat lardy bloaters who trough/swill their way through their military careers while adroitly avoiding anything operational.

3. Female ATC controllers who bimbo their way around the RAF as FJ aircrew groupies.

4. Flight Ops, bleedin' waste of time that lot are.

5. The fuedal messing system that still exists in todays BritMil.

6. Bimbo females who drip all day about the fitness test and how hard it is for them....:mad:

7. The secondary duty system in the RAF and how some seem to spend their entire day writing Constitutions/TORs etc for bars various without actually doing anything remotely primarily productive.

8. The RAF spin merchants. The kit is crap, will always be crap and everybody knows it so stop trying to convince us it isn't!

9. The RAF News. Bin it now, please. A truly awful rag of the utmost uselessness.

10. The entire ATC branch, a group of civvies the lot of them.

11. And one for luck, 90% of the RAF. A bunch of self serving civilians in uniform most of them. :E

[airborne_artist]

DK338

Second that on fitness, but make it:

Anyone who drips all day about the fitness test and how hard it is for them - and/or says "I'm fit enough to sit here and wiggle my stick/mouse/other small device"

You are in a fighting force, remember!

[Roland Pulfrew]

proone

Get real! :mad: As I said leaving MOD and DPA aside, then the armed forces are well run. Just look at what this (relatively) small professional set of services have achieved. If only the other government departments were set the same "savings targets" (ie do more with less) that the armed forces are, we wouldn't be paying as much in tax! Your comments are, IMHO, naive. If we weren't well run, well trained and gained significant experience in organizational capabilities then there wouldn't be such an open market in other sectors for ex-military personnel, dare I say even in the law market!! Yes lots of *d officers go to industry, but then so do lots of other personnel. If industry recognises this talent then why shouldn't OGDs? Yes there have been problems, temperate boots in the desert etc etc, but this is true of many large and small businesses. Civil industry is no better. I know I have just spent some time working with several. The only thing they are better at is paying lawyers to get them out of tight legal corners and usurping their responsibilities - is that where you fit in?

[pr00ne]

Training Risky,

Yep, I consider myself to have been a pretty useful asset, fairly accomplished Flt Lt, and I was considered a useful F-4 front seater even if I was only ever a Sqn shag.

I did 2 tours cr FJ, how many did you do?

As to jacking it in, well, I got a bit fed up of living in an organisation that had Medieval class distinctions, wouldn’t let me grow my hair long (it was the mid 70’s after all!) didn’t like the fact I wanted to have a separate social life from the OM and had absolutely no interest in secondary duties. So I went, and not quietly!

BTW,

I’m a Barrister, not a “commercial lawyer” look it up in a dictionary……………..

You are bitter and twisted, been chopped?


Roland,

Yes, the services are well run, as a fighting force, however, I was responding in the context of a military coup to run the country, a rather different scenario I am sure you agree.

As to “such an open market in other sectors for ex-military personnel” Hhhmmm……………………afraid I have never swallowed that, my experience, albeit I speak AS ex-military personnel, is entirely the opposite.
“Yes lots of *d officers go to industry” I am afraid far too many go to the defence industry, and look at the state THATS’s in!

As to where I fit in, afraid you’re a bit off track there old chap.

[bird99]

1. CAS
2. CMRS
3. CAS
4. I'll tell you after the redundancy package is announced.

[Green Meat]

DK338

I'm sensing a common thread here, been passed over for a FJ mate at some point by aforementioned 'bimbos'? ;)

[Training Risky]

I very well may have been chopped, but that does not make me bitter and twisted. Neither does my post to you make me appear so. I learned long ago to come to terms with my situation.

I just have a general mistrust of anyone who throws their toys into the corner of the mess, jacking in a career because the nasty PMC wants him to sit on the Ents committee and won't let him grow his hair long.... boo hoo!:rolleyes:

A barrister (and I got the term 'commercial law' from your profile) who rakes in a sh*tload of cash, sniping at his previous employer, does not inspire confidence in me or (I imagine) the rest of the armed forces.

Now to get this thread back on track, how about stepping through the door into Room 101. There is a nice man in here with a box of rats for you.......

[BEagle]

"Hey, man - I mean, like, what a bummer. The fascists won't let me grow my hair..... An' their rules like suck, man"

I have this mental picture of 'Neil' from 'The Young Ones' in flying kit....


:p

[DK338]

Green Meat,

Nice try matey but I'm not aircrew, Just don't like RAF air traffickers thats all. They're mainly a bunch of snivelling wannabe NATS controllers lacking in officer/SNCO qualities. There are exceptions obviously but not enough to matter.:E

[jindabyne]

Oh dear, proony - lots of cred just flown out the window

[jindabyne]

C'mon proony - defend yourself!

[pr00ne]

jindabyne,

Against what?

I objected to a rather fatous claim that a military coup would be a good idea and rather diverted the thread with my reasons for resigning my commision a LONG time ago.

I still think the military would make a right horlix of running the country.


More?

[jindabyne]

"Yep, I consider myself to have been a pretty useful asset, fairly accomplished Flt Lt, and I was considered a useful F-4 front seater even if I was only ever a Sqn shag.

I did 2 tours cr FJ, how many did you do?

As to jacking it in, well, I got a bit fed up of living in an organisation that had Medieval class distinctions, wouldn’t let me grow my hair long (it was the mid 70’s after all!) didn’t like the fact I wanted to have a separate social life from the OM and had absolutely no interest in secondary duties. So I went, and not quietly!"


As I said m'lud, cred gone. Close the door behind you old chap, quietly please

[Training Risky]

Look, I didn't mean to hammer away at PR00NE's credibility and give him a generally good slagging-off.... even though that's how I may have come across:O I do have respect for his 2 CR FJ tours though!

What I took exception to was his assertion that the working majority of HM Forces could do no better than the shower of sh*t in power at the moment, because we are all incompetent serfs and couldn't organise a refit in an aircraft factory, etc, etc...

We all know that there is no chance of a military coup in the UK as we are all watched too closely by other government agencies - but that doesn't mean we can't explore the theory.

So to put the track back on thread, I suggest we search for other fitting candidates to meet O'Brien in the Ministry of Love.:}

[Maple 01]

I don't think Training Risky and I belong to the same armed forces.

I'd be deeply concerned if any 'regular' considered seriously a military coup this side of a beer call and I don't think that 'government agencies' are monitoring our every move in case we start one - hell, PSF never know where I am or what I’m doing, what chance to MI5 stand? (Waits for the Black helicopters to appear)

If a military dictatorship ran the country, as pr00ne says, it would all go for rat *hit within a week. I’d be off to join the resistance with most of the RAF

Democracy is the worst form of government – apart from all the others
As the bald bloke with the big cigar once said

[Lee Jung]

Room 101, easy - imcompetence, waste, laziness and self-serving institutions:
DLO - why?
DPA - bollox, is there any major project they havent rolled over and played bi*ch on?
New Labour - For creating a country in which I am paying for a dole-ie who is better off on benefits than taking a minimum wage job.
Buff-Hoon - For mislaying his spine sometime in 1998.
The Chiefs - for 'playing the game' with the spine-less tw*t.
ANY 1* plus member who shows his duplicity by leaving uniform one day, they joining a blood-sucking manufacturer of bull*hit the next.
RAF stations that buy officers £800 pound pairs of skis 'to develop them'.
Civil Service organisations that organize 'team-building' events to The Eden Project or just to go overnight to a hotel.

Rant over, but it feels good!

[Yarpy]

What! You seriously want the military to run the whole country?

Actually my post was, in the spirit of this thread, entirely frivolous. However, having read 'An Honourable Deception' by Clare Short M.P. I understand that Tony Blair has appropriated power for himself in a manner that is like a coup d'état' in all but name.

I quote the following lines from her book:

'Unaccountable young officials would propose ideas to the Prime Minister and departments would be instructed to implement them' P. 71.

'The centralisation of power continues to grow remorselessly with No.10 trying to control the selection of candidates to the Scottish Parliament and Welsh Assembly as well as for the London Mayor and the European Parliament'. P.73.

'All promotion now depends on supporting the leader unquestionably' P. 74.

'Blair came to enjoy the drama and glory that goes with military action' P.91.

'There is a feel of a group of boys who have taken over and find it exciting to exercise power over others through their own little gang' P.102.

'Tony Blair's unwillingness to stand up firmly to the US' P.118.

I looked 'coup d'état' up in the dictionary and came up with the following definition:

'coup d'état' 'A sudden appropriation of leadership or power; a take-over: a boardroom coup.'

Not far off what has already happened it would seem.

I recently met Clare Short at a book signing. Her mission seemed to be to explain what had actually happened to our Parliament. She took questions for 45 minutes. The mood amongst the (mostly) middle aged audience was frankly one of anger that deomcracy had been subverted.

Of course we don't want either revolution or military coup in Britain. We need a full turnout at the next election. The most useful result might be a hung parliament as this would force our directly elected representatives to use the established democratic processes that the British people own.

Room 101? We are already in it.

[Tonkenna]

Blair came to enjoy the drama and glory that goes with military action' P.91.

Just not willing to pay for it though I guess :uhoh:

[moggiee]

Great quote from Diane Abbot on "This Week" last night:

"Geoff Hoon? What makes you think that he makes any of the decisions about the Military?". Or words to that effect.

[Matoman]

DK338 - I assume from your rather vulgar hatred of the RAF Air Traffic Control specialisation that you failed the JATCC - or perhaps you didn't even get that far! So I suggest you go back to school, work a bit harder and then you might eventually achieve something in your life.

[OiOiOi Hoot Hoot]

Few things spring to mind on your post Matoman:

1. Air Traffikers are hated throughout the RAF so I wouldnt get het up by one comment.

2. Failing JATCC or not being selected does not constitute a reason to have tried harder at school. For one an education does not automatically give you an abundance of common sense, social skills or the ability to talk about anything other than your last "avoiding action turn"

3. Having completed JATCC, it did not make me feel like I had achieved something in life or for that matter have a life.

The day air traffikers stop talking shop and realise that they are nothing special is the day that hell freezes over.

Before you start a rant Matoman, I have completed JATCC and validated at unit, so I do believe I can comment about the amount of ignorant self-centered to$$ers in the branch / trade

Merry Xmas

[DK338]

Matomanoman or what ever you call yerself,

I rest my case!

You are indicative of the self opinionated smugness that prevails within the ATC world and it's precisely because of people like you that I have a thorough dislike of you. If you honestly believe that working harder at school might improve ones chances of passing an aptitude test then you really have no idea. Is that the argument you put forward to all your FOAs, "Sorry thicko, no controlling for you because you aren't bright enough!" I'd be the first to invite you round the back of the tower for some constructive advice. I suggest to you boyo that you crawl away back under the soggy little stone that you and the majority of you ilk congregate under and learn some humility. Tw@t!

My experiences of some members of the ATC branch over the last few months would make your eyes water. On a recent det for example some commissoned controllers rolled in so drunk they shouldn't have controlled, the DSATCO failed to pitch up twice, it appeared for the same reasons. The next DSATCO lacked the moral courage to put a stop to some serious breaches of airmanship, want me to go on? So no not exactly my favourite people.


OiOiOi Hoot Hoot.

Good post chap, at least there are some Air Traffickers out there with some cred who can see the wood from the trees.

[Matoman]

DK338

A outstanding bite! I must throw out a little more bait / insults to keep me and others amused. Keep up the good work.

Guard the flight

[OiOiOi Hoot Hoot]

Come on Matoman you can do better than that. I know approach room banter is to do with the qualities of people RIS, RAS and type of climb out restriction but come on, to actually pretend it was for a bite :D :D :D

So Matoman, give it your best shot...

PS that post of yours in answer to DK was the best bit of avoiding action you have done in years :ok: :ok: :ok:

[Matoman]

DK338

You really will have to do much better than that and anyway you can’t rest your case, because I‘ve decided to reply - hopefully to elicit the exchange of a bit more abuse! Besides, I am not in the habit of lying under soggy little stones, or bloody great paving slabs in my case, I much prefer throwing them back in the direction they came from!

Firstly, self-opinionated is really only one of the many characteristics I would freely acknowledge; a selection of others are: smug, rude, outspoken, insufferable, arrogant, thick-skinned, together with a general intolerance of the lower orders – the list is almost endless, but sadly for you, humility doesn’t seem to feature anywhere. As for you and some others in sections of the RAF having a thorough dislike of air traffickers .... please! ...... it goes with the territory and flows off my back without even touching the surface! In the immortal words of the supporters of one of my favourite teams “No-one likes us, we don’t care”.

Secondly, your early recourse to proposing physical violence and the use of the term boyo rather gives the game away and sadly betrays your disadvantaged upbringing, probably on some sink council estate in the depths of darkest South Wales. Perhaps you were the spawned by the frantic coupling of a 14 year-old single mother and a drug-addled feckless illiterate yob up against the back of the local chip van – the various possibilities are almost endless. Anyway, when I jumped on the scales down at the gym this week, I appear to have entered the heavyweight division, the result of far too much pie-eating over the years. Consequently, a bout of unseemly fisticuffs with a lightweight such as yourself would not be allowed under the Queensberry Rules. Remember, the pen is mightier than the sword.

DK338, my advice is for you to take a strong sedative and lie down for a while in a darkened room, preferably in a dank night flying shed alongside an ATC tower somewhere, which will hopefully contain some moldy old documents and maps to act as a bed. All that latent hostility towards one small part of the RAF indicates some fundamental, deep-seated neurosis, unhealthy in one so young and immature, that needs to be urgently treated. To quote the psychiatrist surveying a manic Basil Fawlty in an episode of Fawlty Towers ‘There’s enough material here for an entire conference”.

Your anonymity makes it a little difficult to determine your position within the RAF. Perhaps you’re a scribbler, or maybe a stacker or even possibly even one of those fine upstanding movers, who bring such joy to the lives of so many? My pet theory for your latent hostility is that you’ve recently suffered some unfortunate rejection at the hands of an air trafficker. Perhaps your obviously feeble sexual advances were quickly spurned by one of the many stunning young ladies who inhabit our control towers - or perhaps she was a he, after all, such predilection is legal these days, isn’t it? Don’t be shy, you can come out of the closet, nobody minds anymore!

I think probably that the most likely explanations for your anger are that you’re either a member of the much loved flt ops specialization, with an unhealthy chip on both shoulders having failing the aptitude test, or a cpl plod who’s developed an unnatural obsession with the theft of a packet of paperclips from the ATC admin office – who knows?

I really do doubt whether your experiences of the past few months would actually makes my eyes water. I learned long, long ago that thankfully all those in my specialisation also share many, if not all, of my defining characteristics. In addition, we are all tea-total, hard-working, utterly attractive individuals with film star good looks, MA’s from Oxbridge with engaging personalities to match, completely dedicated to Charity work in what little free time we’re allowed – well at least I am anyway.

You mentioned credibility, well sadly once again you display the immaturity, sublime ignorance and misplaced arrogance, typical of so many of the poorly educated youth of today – the sink comprehensive education system and Shirley Williams have much to answer for. Credibility isn’t something bestowed upon you or anyone after a little four month out of area detachment during your first tour! In reality, in takes many, many years to establish even a smattering of credibility and when you’re on your second or third tour, and maybe have reached the dizzy heights of JNCO, you might just have acquired a little yourself. As for me, well I’m old, really, really old, fat, grumpy and extremely ugly to boot, but with 30+ years and a dozen or more tours, home and abroad, I suspect I may have rather more credibility than most, so pull up a sandbag and listen in and who knows, if you can stay awake longer than me, you might actually learn something for once in your life. Finally, I actually can see the wood for the trees, because I suspect that, over the years, I probably actually planted a few of the woods myself.

Please, please keep the banter coming DK338, I’m starting to really warm to the task and my fingers are poised over the keyboard awaiting a witty response, so look sharp about it thicko!!!

[bigley]

That is the longest bit of baiting I've seen for ages!!! Nice one:O

[flipster]

Bravo, top post M - looking forward to DK's reply!

However, "stunning looking ATC controllers" - on which planet is that?

And as for Welsh valleys' chippe vans - obviously, you have never been there! If you had, you would know they are all 'lavabread and rarebit' vans. Having sex at the back of those was always exciting, if a little smelly!

At least, one knew they would never move as their wheels had been replaced with a pile of bricks!

[jockspice]

My 0.02 for Room 101

1. Constantly repeating news channels - "We will continue to bring you the latest on the death of Mr Doobery Firkin - he is still dead"
2. Middle lane motorway drivers (in already but feel so strong about it so it can go in twice!)
3. Fair weather supporters of the armed forces
4. More commitments but no increase in support or funding
5. People who have "revolutionary ideas on how we can do our business in the future" when they don't have a clue on how we do it now
6. Any bloody reality tv show, especially where opposites are put together on holiday to "see what will happen"
7. People who, when confronted about their views, claim they were only fishing for a bite. And if they were fishing, they are twice the tw@!

There are more to follow I am sure

[DK338]

Matoman,

Your reply indicates to me a deep seated sense of inadequacy in yourself. Maybe you're the one from the working class sink estate desperate to shed his working class roots. To give you credit though, I actually suspect you're a product of the post war lower middle class who feels that he has risen above the little people but in actuality is a nobody. Come back to me once you get an entry in Debretts like me and then we'll continue the discussion on background - peasant!

Forget basing cred on number of tours, I am confident that my lengthy service in the RAF will overshadow anything you may feel you've achieved. I suggest to you that instead of hiding away on MOBs or racking up time in area radar in safe benign environments, get out and get some time under your belt in a military environment on real time ops, something air traffickers are not apart of and don't do much of to boot!

Anyway I have no intention of competing with your verbose xenophobic/rankist/pompous post as clearly you have enough chips to feed the nations entire complement of sink estates.

I'm rather enjoying this!

DK

[Matoman]

DK338,

I must confess that, when I first saw that you had eventually summoned up the mental powers to respond to my last post, I think I felt the vague stirrings of sexual arousal. At least I suspect that’s what it was as, owing to my enormous girth, I haven’t seen Mr Floppy for some considerable time and these days he appears to affect no interest in actual physical activity, unless heavily fortified by one of those popular social stimulants that are advertised so freely on the Internet.

Unfortunately, it’s taken me a little while to respond as I have been travelling into the capital, in preparation for another strenuous week in the office, and whilst in town I reside in my club where 20th century technology is somewhat lacking. Nevertheless, your rather humourless response seemed a trifle angry, the arguments you propose rather poorly structured and one or two of the suggestions a bit physically taxing for a gentleman at my stage in life. Anyway, this evening I was dozing quietly in a comfy old Chesterfield, behind a copy of The Sunday Times considering how best to respond, when I noticed Fatty Soames waddling across the room in my general direction. This was somewhat surprising as, having been my Fag at Eton as well as my social inferior, Soames normally gives me a wide berth - I probably bring back too many memories of him being held upside down in the lavatory, whilst I eagerly flushed the chain. Nevertheless, I allowed him to join me because I felt that, as the Shadow Defence spokesman, he might have something worthwhile to contribute to my forthcoming speech on the poor educational standards and lack of humour prevalent in so many of today’s young servicemen and women.

I showed him your last post and he agreed with me that it was deeply regrettable that these days we are forced to employ ill-bred, semi-literate youths of vague Welsh descent in the armed forces. I made the point that, whilst in the past I have found jobs for one or two of these disadvantaged people as sheep worriers on my country estate, it was in retrospect a mistake to place temptation so easily in their path – although their low sperm count usually prevented any unforeseen accidents. After a number of stiff G&T’s, we did eventually agree that when the next Tory government finally takes office, you and a number of your inbred relations from the Valleys would probably benefit from being re-employed as Fags for the more senior and less physically active members of the RAF.

I know that at first this might seem a bit of a comedown, but I firmly believe that with sufficient training, together with a few generous applications of the birch, you might eventually be suitable material to Fag for me. This new arrangement will be a difficult adjustment for me as well, but in time I imagine that I will eventually become accustomed to your unusual speech patterns, strange odours and physical deformities and besides, it’s not your fault that you’re the unfortunate victim of a bungled forceps delivery. At the weekends I frequently hunt with the Cottesmore and generally decimate wildlife around my estate, but in the current anti-hunt climate, you’ll have to be put to work laying a trail for the hounds to follow. The hounds have, understandably, been trained to chase and attack the lower orders, so you’ll need to be a fairly swift runner, because you’re likely to be torn limb from limb if cornered.

Anyway, as my future Fag you can now cut along to the nearest lavatories and sit on one of the bog seats for a while to practice warming it up for me in future. Look sharp about it boyo or you’ll set a bad example to the other trainee Fags!!

Matoman



PS:

You've rather shot yourself in the foot in your last post, demonstrating yet again your pathetic lack of up-to-date knowledge, as you clearly have no idea of the number of operational theatres where RAF air traffic controllers are currently deployed - I suggest you might first want to make some discrete enquiries before replying.

PPS:

I'm just beginning to get in my stride - keep the posts coming!

[jockspice]

Fab
Another potentially fine thread topic which has been taken over by a public slagging match.
Can't you chaps take your five-paced-handbag-scrap elsewhere?:hmm: :zzz:

[VoicesFromTheCreche]

wow...DK338 / Matoman - what have we started?!?!

the creche hasn't laughed so much in ages!!

:D

[spankymonkey]

"the creche hasn't laughed so much in ages!!"


At last, something I can believe. (top thread though)

Spanky

[Now a 'J' Bloke!!]

Hi Gang;

So nice of D(ic)K 338 to remind us that most of the mob (including me) are mere council house kids wanting to be better.....

I dream of the silver spoon in my gob!!!

PS...for room 101 I suggest the following;

1. Middle Class Tw*ts
2. Crappy PAR talkdown controllers...
3. Crappy QFIs slagging ATC peeps trying to do their job
4. The latest round of cuts......sorry...options!!!

Regards to Most...
SFS:cool:

[DK338]

Now a 'J' Bloke!!

Mate, I'm not the one who has a problem with council estates, I was merely responding to the snobbery of Matoman. If my post offended you I apologise. DK

Matoman,

Ah Bunter, got to you have I? Excellent!

The Walter Mitty La La land life that you lead is all very amusing , but really I ask you. Please, be a good chap and kindly refrain from pretending to hail from the higher orders, it's pretty obvious that you're a little person with delusions of grandeur and therefore must be particularly galling to have spent 30 years in the Service and still be a junior officer, what's it like? Please do tell. I bet you hail from a horrid little suberb like Pinner or Hounslow or is it a new town per chance, Bracknell or Milton Keynes maye?:E

Anyway Mintoman, must dash, got a parlour maid to roger.


DK:p

PS: I am only too aware of the dets that the ATC mafia are manning thank you. I still have yet to see one of them in the field, unlike adminers, plods and flight ops to name the 3 trades that you appear to belittle. When did you last operate from a field strip supporting the Army? Never I wager.

[6nandneutral]

For Room 101:
1 GDT/ODT/CCS
2 Parades and Ceremonials
3 Fitness Tests
4 Dinghy Drills
5 Inspections
6 Ground Cats
7 Route Checks/Drop Checks
8 MCT
9 CRM
10 Annual Medicals
11 Tents
12 Station Duties
13 AR5 (If they bring it back)
14 ACRs
15 Iraq
16 Afghanistan
17 Sierra Leone
18 Falklands
19 Ivory Coast
20 Dakar
21 Goose Bay
:ok:

[MATZ]

DK338 - you obviously have no idea of what the Air Traffic Controllers on Tactical Communications Wing do then.

It was one of the first modern "Tactical" units established (pre-Falklands war) - well before half of the RAF went "Tactical" just because they wore green once-a-month.

As for working with the Army/getting out on ops etc - I don't recall seeing you in Oman 2 months before Saif Sareea II started or 3 weeks after if finished, or in Afghanistan 45 days before the RAF Regt pitched up to establish the APOD (without any tents or ammo - but that is another story), or in Sierra Leone on a number of Ops, or running the airhead for the troop deployment in to Prestina, or some of the first people of the line in both Gulf Wars.... I really can't be bothered to continue the list.

Or all of the Air Traffic Controllers that operate as airspace managers within the Army command formations (Bde/Div/Corps), or the 2 Air Trafficers that are BALOs, or those in JFACC.

So as a branch I think you will find there are a lot of people who are operationally focused. Yes there are some I would not send outside of the camp gate without an escort - but do not tar us all with the same brush.

Anyway,

As for the original question of this thread my suggestion for Rm 101 would be:

1. Staff Officers with no operational experience running operations.
2. A supply system that does not supply - I have been waiting 7 weeks for a new pair of shoes.
3. DK338 - for changing what could have been a humorous thread in to a bitch and moan that he obviously can't do face to face at his unit....


Merry Christmas one and all....

MATZ

[Lionel Lion]

Also for room 101

People who say Merry Christmas in November

happy Eid

:ok:

[greenhaven]

another one for 101:

Culdrose Flying Clothing Store - you think they'd bought the stuff in there from their own bank accounts, such is their reluctance to give you absa-bl@@dy-lutely anything at all without needing permission in triplicate from Cdr Air, the CO, your mum and the cleaner. All i wanted was another roll-neck vest which got 'lost' on board in the wash. Even prepared to buy one. No, came the reply, i needed to report the theft to the Police and come back with a crime reference number, or at the very least a letter from the CO explaining the circumstances in which it got lost. Then i was told that as an officer i should "be more responsible for my kit"!

:mad: came my reply...

Rant over. Needed to get that off my chest. Cheers.

[DK338]

MATZ,

How do you know, eh? I certainly don't recal seeing may air traffickers funnily enough.

Anyway, my comments are aimed at the majority not the dedicated few, I suggest you re-read my origional post to appreciate that I am the first to understand that not all are bad, just not enough to matter. My experiences of ATC personnel employed in BALO jobs was not favourable. They all whined and whinged about being in an army environment and that it was too military for them When I did a spell on a Bde, I loved it and would have willingly transferred to a green uniform if it wasn't for the fact I was an old knacker.

So to add to my list

12. Humourless Air Traffickers with Waffer thin skin.
13. Fat lardy pie eating, tabbing air traffickers too bloaty to make it up the stairs to the VCR without the aid of a stair lift.
14. Stupid and lazy junior officer controllers with no officer qualities hiding away to see out their time to IPP - sack 'em I say!
15. TACATC for thinking their 'Special'. Bunch of ponces:p
16. ATC JFACC staff for not understanding the differences between dissimilar. (It's a fast jet innit?)
17. Battlespace management gimps for planning ingress/egress routes to a target area without first being aware of fuel burn/range/endurance.:E

TTFN

[fagin's goat]

Hoon!


and Tony for the Iraq fiasco

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

And there I was thinking that TCW stood for Two C**ts and a Wireless!

[Surditas]

What was the thread about again? Oh yes, I remember...

Room 101. Let's see. If I went down the corridor and opened the door to Room 101 it might contain (in no real order):

1) Lazy television journalists posing as military experts and pontificating on operations.
2) Trying to get anything from the Clothing Store
3) Working with the Americans

[sweep complete]

- 'trendy' George W Bush haters... most of the fools know sod all about politics or America

- tree hugging, yogurt knitting liberals who take more offence at Allied troops storming a building than they do at fanatics chopping innocent peoples heads off on video.

- George Galloway (see above) - p*** off and live in Iraq, or better still join you pal Saddam in prison.

- 'Yes' men

- Tony Blair and New Labour


:E

[glum]

Going to the toilets in a military establishment, only to find a note on the door saying:

"Only to be used by Officers, Warrent Officers and civilians"

So everyone from Flight Sgt down comes below the civvy cleaner then huh?

[FEWNCOP]

Should it not be, the worst things in the world get put into Block 101

(I'm sure most of you know where I'm coming from!!!!)

[GTNav]

Hey I love the ATC exchanges.

My limited experience of them (20 years) is mixed.

They were generally a lazy bunch who were the tail always trying to wag the dog.

Never found them useful in NI, Bosnia, Iraq etc, or for that matter at Odiham! Add to that the flyco pains.

They were great at Shawbury, young girls up for a laugh who had already realised their male ATC course mates were not their social choice. Great to see AAC Sgts getting in there whilst on the QHI course and the Navy were great sports too.

So for my room 101:

Flight deck controllers.

Car drivers who think they can drive fast because noone else deserves the road.

Those who cannot accept the majority vote in politics.

MQ habitants who think they are the special case.

The RAF still having number 2s, Navy blues and other military office attire; scrap them and everyone who needs a 34 inch or bigger waist CS95 (when is CS04 in?) gets a medical discharge.

Yes I hate fatties in uniform, get off your butts and stop blaming your metabolism, genes or hormones.

GT

[OiOiOi Hoot Hoot]

Sweep Complete,

- 'trendy' George W Bush haters... most of the fools know sod all about politics or America


Might I suggest the books "Rogue State" by William Blum or "The Best Democracy Money can buy" by Greg Palast. Both interesting reads and availavble on Amazon, then decide if you want to retract that comment

If you want my copies ill post them once they have finished doing the rounds

:ok: :ok: :ok:

[BEagle]

Prejudiced jockstrapaholic racing snakes - they too can go to Room 101!

Hyperventilating shrink-wrapped tw@ts who don't pay road tax using their damn velocipedes on crowded roads and getting in the way of people who drive fast cars - off to Room 101 with 'em!

And everyone who has yet to realise that 'fun run' is, by definition, an oxymoron.

[sweep complete]

OiOiOi Hoot Hoot

.... next you'll be reccommending the trash that Michael Moore spouts forth. Just accept that more Americans voted for Bush than for Kerry, and so according to the principles of DEMOCRACY that makes him the president of the USA.

And don't even start with all the nonsense about American religious nutters voting him in - try ordinary Americans who cling to some semblence of honest family values despite the best efforts of the tree hugging liberals.

:E

[buoy15]

6nandneutral

You missed out No 22 mate = YOU!!

Military jet noise - the sound of freedom!:D

[OiOiOi Hoot Hoot]

Surely a DEMOCRACY is the right to publish facts, opinions and to have the right to vote in elections...

Obviously you are as biased and blinkered in your opinions as Michael Moore is. Would be interesting to know if you actually watched Farenheit 9/11.

How democratic was the 2000 Election? Honest family values and liberalism eh? The whole system of government should have honesty and integrity before preaching about "honest family values", More a case of "do as I say, not as I do"

[sweep complete]

- Not biassed or blinkered (and I have seen Farenheit 9/11 and read his books). I happen to think it is mostly b******s!
And no one stops him printing these 'facts and opinions'.

- Show me a government anywhere in the world that could truely be described as having honesty and integrity.

- My point remains that it has become the 'in thing' to dislike George W Bush, and I still maintain that MOST people who claim such a dislike know sod all about America or politics.

- p.s. it is 2004, and more people in America wanted Bush as their President than wanted Kerry (see GTNavs earlier entry to Room 101....Those who cannot accept the majority vote in politics

[Training Risky]

GTNav...The RAF still having number 2s, Navy blues and other military office attire; scrap them and everyone who needs a 34 inch or bigger waist CS95 (when is CS04 in?) gets a medical discharge.

Err, so what would you have blunties wear? Gro-bags or shirt&tie? If you suggest that they all wear CS95, they would look too much like soldiers!

[DK338]

And your point, Training Risky is.....................................?

[Training Risky]

My point is this, GTNav has called for the scrapping of number 2's without suggesting a replacement.

If he meant (but did not type it) that they should all wear CS95, how would you distinguish an airman from a soldier at a distance..... and maybe more importantly, the public would presume at the next fire-shirk that only the Army was manning the pumps and HQ's.

On second thoughts, what trivia am I getting involved with now?:confused: :yuk:

[Trumpet_trousers]

that they should all wear CS95, how would you distinguish an airman from a soldier at a distance...

....Aah, but wasn't that why we had a thread not that long ago concerning some nice new 'gucci' name badges, so that they could tell us apart?

...No, please don't go there.......:{

[GTNav]

If you read my first post, the comment about number 2s was followed by a mention of CS95, sorry if my paragraph was not made completely clear.
Ref manning the pumps, the thread was going on about how combat the mil was especially ATC and the big slagging match we all enjoyed there.
Last time I saw anyone "manning the pumps" it was the great team from TSW and they wore combats, dug trenches and generally did alot more for the name of the RAF then most you meet in blues;Navy MAOTS did a similiar good job of flying the Pennant as they got stuck in in DPM. I guess the idea was that it seems a waste of money to provide blues and DPM to office workers, why not just have one set of clothing that everyone can work in be it an office or a trench and maybe then everyone could pick up what they need at stores.
We still provide No 1s for all those bollo@#$ngs we get and for being seen in public and if we continue providing them maybe they should be worn more then once a year.
Finally, where has that nice chap from ATC gone who spends his days in London Clubs rubbing shoulders with Lords and Peers?

[DK338]

I bet he's been locked away in a wooden crate wearing his rubber face mask and skin tight @rseless pants awaiting his next call to the colours................!:E

[Matoman]

DK338

I haven't gone away, I just became bored with responding to your innane comments that lacked either originality or a sense of humour, but at least it's now clear you know more about S&M fashion than me.

I also have much, much better things to do with my time................

Matoman

[DK338]

Matomintogimp

Really?........A smattering of a nibble methinks.

DK338