Shar vs F-18

[giblets]

How does the SHAR tend to do against the F-18, and the new E/F version, tend to think it will win in WVR, but what about BVR?
Cheers
Edward

[stillin1]

The F18 in the air -air fit will eat it alive.:cool:

[Razor61]

Stillin,

Explain why 'it' will eat the Shar alive in an 'air-air fit'.
Also, in what situation?

Razor

[artyhug]

Persistance

Agility

Weapon Systems effectiveness

Would you like any more?

[Razor61]

Yes, carry on explaining.

[JessTheDog]

Airspeed, agility, engines, endurance, payload, avionics, radar/missile envelope(?)...also likely C2 datalink backup.

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

Sounds like we are getting rid of the SHAR just in time:E


all spelling mistakes are "df" alcoho induced

[stillin1]

Apart from the SHAR's ability to be airborne and going nowhere, I can't think of anything meaningful that the F18 does not beat the SHAR at. Use the web - catalogue the features essential and desirable in a fighter and compare the 2 aircraft. The score is overwhelmingly not in the SHAR's favour. To be frank - its such a non starter I can't be inclined to do the work for you:cool::p

[WE Branch Fanatic]

Who cares anyway?

[rivetjoint]

Well it goes to prove that in any future naval operations it seems it's better to have the US Navy turn up with their carrier of F/A-18s for fleet air defence than a sub-standard British "carrier" with SHARs on-board.

The F/A-18E/F must be good as they replaced the F-14 with it...oh we're back to politics again :)

[WE Branch Fanatic]

What if it's a UK only operation? Or a multinational one that doesn't involve the US? Or UK forces are operating a significant distance away from a USN carrier group?

[maxburner]

Better SHAR than nothing. Still, the RN must know what it's doing..........

[Navaleye]

The Shar is generally comparable to the F18a. The upgrades planned for it but cancelled would have made it comparable the later C model. Yes I know its slower, but its still a good air-to-air package.

Navaleye.
Currently putting on weight on the QE2

[Feck]

Generally comparable my buttocks.

[El Grifo]

Ok guys, make my day por favor.

The SHAR is - - - - - ?

:8 :bored: :8

[JessTheDog]

Ok guys, make my day por favor.

The SHAR is - - - - - ?

...also known as the Sea Harrier FA2, to be sold to the Indian Navy!

Better than nothing, as pointed out, with a decent BVR capability and a decent radar, as well as an (intended) data exchange capability, all of which will be missing from its "replacement" in the organic fixed-wing AD role - the GR 7/9! Thank you Buff Hoon - although, if the MoD will send TA reservists into theatre that can't even pass weapon handling tests, it will do anything in order to cut corners, regardless of the risk to life. Rant over.

The engines were crap though...

[stillin1]

Naveleye. I recon your looking up your ar#e not yer navel mate. "Generally comparable". I nearly dropped my pink gin.
You puddin:p

[El Grifo]

'preciate that Jess, now I understand the argument.

[Oggin Aviator]

A subjective question.

A good driver in a SHAR will always beat a bad or inexperienced driver in a Hornet, and vice versa. I have seen it many times. To blindly say one is better than the other is rubbish. On paper it may be, but in the air a lot depends on the pilot. Does a pilot with BVR capability really want to get into a turning fight? Probably not, in my experience (Esp of F3s :} ) Therefore the SHAR Blue Vixen and AMRAAM combination is very potent, only potentially limited by the airframe - in the hands of a good operator it can, did and still (for the time being) does do well against dissimiliar BVR players.

Oggin

[mbga9pgf]

Personally think that with data link and phased array radar, a brace of 18s would shred a brace of SHAR, whilst well and truly bvr. Big SHAR turbofan must show up a mile on advanced radar, whereas the 18 must be slightly better in this respect (not sure, just guesswork). Know SHAR radar is the money, but could it cut it against fully digital link equipped aircraft?

However, looking at the question from another angle, and I may be wrong on this account, but can the 18 recover and take off in near zero vis like the shar? Significant advantage to SHAR, especially as it was in the south atlantic during falklands. Or can 18 autoland?

[MobiusTrip]

A subjective question indeed - but I know which one I'd rather be sat in at the merge. BVR is a different kettle of fish if you only have an A model with Aim 7 and 'Legoland' radar.

MT

[fidae]

Navaleye

Please produce your substantive evidence that a SHAR is equal to a F-18 A.......I look forward to it and I imagine those countries that bought F-18 for their air forces and navy air arms when obviously they should have bought SHAR will be distraught.

On the last thread I read on this particular line of debate "Just how good is the SHAR" you stated the SHAR was equal to a F-18C. It seems you have, over time. retrogressed the "equal comparison" on the mark of F-18.Please produce substantive evidence that a SHAR is better than a F-18C.......I will look forward to that even more.

Just in case you had'nt noticed, this question was more targetted towards the F-18E..............

F

m---------
F-18 autoland, just might think it can hack it!!!!

[Navaleye]

Fidae, if memory serves me I corrected my typo regarding the "C" model on the other thread and I fully expected that my comments would bring light blue out in force to bash the Shar and its achievements. I don't have to justify its capabilities, its record stands for itself.

StillinOne, Its not my quote, but it came directly from the CO of 800 Sqn when interviewed after operating with the USN in the gulf maybe three years ago. If you want I can dig out his exact words. To paraphrase his comments, he said that the USN was very sceptical of of the Shar until it was pointed out that it carried a similar weapon load, with an arguably better radar than the F18A. The two have and still do operate well together. Yes its slower and with a lesser range as I previously mentioned. The C model is a generation ahead of course. I stand by my comments.

[rivetjoint]

But the F-18A is old hat.

[Navaleye]

Yes it is, there are still a few kicking around. I fully accept that the Shar does not compare to the E/F model, but as Oggin pointed out, any modern a/c in the right hands can pull a few surprises out of the hat.

[4Greens]

A Harrier can operate from a carrier (ie get back on) in visibility conditions that would prevent operations of F18s or whatever . You can only shoot someone down if you are up there.