Any chance in PNG with 650h?

[WX Man]

Done a search on D&G forums and found some good info on PNG. It seems that 1000h is a minimum when it comes to jobs.

With 650h (100 ME), current IR etc., (on bog standard training A/C, largest being BE76 or PA23) what are the chances of getting a job there? Is it out of the question or would the 100 multi count for something?

Previous job was a tuggie for a gliding club. Oh, and I'm a pom with EU JAA and US FAA licences, not Oz or NZ licences.

... just would really like to know if I'm wasting my time looking for a job in that part of the world.

[Alistair]

Hey Wx man,

The search you did would pretty much have summed it up for you.
Take note of the security situation up there, i haven't been in PNG for about 5 years but sometimes the day to day stuff can be more dangerous than the flying.

It is not that you may not be capable of coping with PNG aviation with your level of experience, just that they need to set a level some where to stop people killing themselves when they first get up there. Ozexpat, Chuckles and the like would probably have covered most of the reasons for the introduction of an hours limit, it came about whilst they were learning the skills that have kept them alive for so long working up there.

Your JAA/US licences may be enough. PNG has its own licence system and you would need to do an air law exam to get it, if they recognise one of your current licences, once again Ozexpat would be able to help if he is around.

Some charter experience on some larger twins would certainly stand you in good stead and if you could top up your 1000 hrs like that it would certainly help. Although if you can do that you may not have a reason to go to PNG anymore. I went for the experience of flying up there as i had always wanted too, would not change the time i spent in PNG for anything and would thoroughly recomend it, so long as the decision to go is based on current information and with your eyes wide open to the dangers of living and working in PNG.

Sorry i can't be of more help, but at least you have a reply (of sorts) now!!

[OzExpat]

I'm not in the Licensing Section and am yet to fully catch up with the requirements under the new rules but, yes, I think that you'd only have to do an examination on our new Civil Aviation Rules. But all you'd have then is a basic VFR commercial licence and few options. There's only one operator that might employ you but there is a major problem brewing for them.

This problem centres on the lack of availability of Avgas for the all-piston fleet. Impossible to get Avgas in the Highlands now, without an advance arrangement with one of the local operators (if they are indeed willing to part with any fuel at all). It's all in drums, brought in my the local operators at HUGE expense.

I hear that Shell is about to withdraw from Lae. This is the worst possible news for any operator with piston-engined aircraft. The new oil refinery at Napa Napa, across the bay from Port Morbid, has only undertaken to supply Avtur and, last I heard, wasn't even considering supplying Avgas because the market is now too small to make it worthwhile.

What all of this means is that the only companies that are going to survive, in the long run, are those using turbine powered aeroplanes. And, for that, you need to have a pass in the BGT exam in the first instance. In any case, most of those companies are not looking for pilots with basic hours on pistons because, as has been already been said ad-nauseum on other threads, of the insurance requirements and dictates of the charter clients.

On top of all that, you also need to have a current certificate in DG Awareness.

All in all, I think you're better off looking elsewhere. I would also support the views of Alistair, on the dangers of life, let alone flying, in PNG. That situation will probably improve under the Enhanced Cooperation Program that will see a few hundred Oz Federal Cops working with the local Constabulary over the next 5 years. But, overall, I can't see life being a whole lot safer.

[Woomera]

"...to have a pass in the BGT exam in the first instance..."

Oz, BGT abolished in Australia years ago - regrettably.

Has PNG introduced a BGT course and exam?

The perennial question of piston engines and single engine aircraft.... I recall STOL, Patair, Ansett-MAL, TAA, Aerial Tours/Douglas, IAT, Territory Airlines et al all proclaiming the era of piston engines and SE aircraft was over. But still PNG aviation is built on single Cessnas and recip engines!

Perhaps, like the move from Lae to Nadzab, this time the Government will decree multi turbine equipment?

Woomera

[OzExpat]

I was actually wondering about the BGT requirement as I wrote that post W. Wasn't totally sure about it at the time, but figured it was better to mention a requirement that might no longer exist than ignore one that actually might exist. Like I said in the post, I'm not yet fully caught up on licensing requirements so will have to check tomorrow - unless someone comes up with the right answer in the meantime.

The days of piston-engined aircraft in PNG are probably quite severely numbered, I fear. Just to give you a bit of an idea of the current situation with Avgas, last time I was in Vanimo - just a month or so ago - a 200 litre drum of Avgas cost K1,000 from MAF. They're importing the fuel themselves and distributing it to their bases, so the cost has gone thru the roof.

There are also places where Avtur isn't available, but I think that is limited to the Highlands region. This has been the result of the refusal of fuel companies to send tankers over the very much degraded Highlands Highway, where there is risk of serious damage to, or even loss of, tanker trucks. And, of course, the local criminal element had been taking advantage of the poor road conditions to act as natural roadblocks, thereby helping them in their robberies.

I haven't been into the Highlands for a while, so don't have an up to date picture of the situation, so Avtur might again be available there. Regardless of this, aviation in PNG is nothing like it used to be and I can't see the situation improving any time soon.

[Alistair]

Hi Oz and Woomera,

They still had the requirement for BGT when i was last in PNG (1999) may have changed by now though.

Sorry to hear about the Avgas situation, another hassle for Pottsie, Mike and Geoff over at Nadzab. Might mean Geoff finally gets that 300 series twotter he always hankered after for NCA. We used to fly Bongo van loads of avgas into Wau and Pop back then as a backup for the usual truck/boat supplies. guess that is what they will be doing more of now. at those sought of prices (K1000) it might be more lucrative than betel nut!! (stashing the odd 200 litre drum onboard might be a bit more dificult though)

Woomera, at least the move out to Nadzab provided us NCA guys with a little sport in the morning and afternoon. A few of the F1 guys could have learnt a thing or two about overtaking on that road. Admittedly we had a pretty good incentive not to stop or get stuck behind anything out there.

[Chimbu chuckles]

Ya reacon Alistair...in my day, when we actually moved from Lae to Nadzab for operations but took some of the aircraft back to Lae in the afternoons for maintenance, the record from the Highlands Highway turn off (to the airport) to Marty Yarde's dad's house (opposite the Golf Club entrance) was 17 minutes!!!:ooh: I held it for a day or two at 17.5 and then Marty beat it..and I was a pax on said run:ooh: :uhoh: :}

Truly sad to see the way PNG aviation has gone. Truly lucky to have been a participant in the last of the good old days.

Can't wait for the Talair re-union next year:ok:

[Woomera]

Chuck, were you there when the PNGDF flew a C-47 with armed troops from Port Morbid to Lae and took over the airport in an attempt to stop the move to Nadzab? :}

[tinpis]

W seem to recall Mr I. Okuk being involved somewhere?

[Chimbu chuckles]

Yes I was there...Okuk was long dead by then. Old Sir Iambakey was certainly involved in the whole NZ v Lae debacle earlier in the long running arguments though...but he shuffled off his mortal coil in 86 and the final closure and C47 'dawn strike' was 88.

Twas bloody funny actually. The Defense Farce had arrived from POM at the stroke of dawn in said C47 and set up a defensive perimeter with machine guns etc etc. They were really not happy chappies about losing there HQ with all it's hangars etc and working from tents at NZ instead. .

Wally Bednar and Al Craigie arrived in the middle of the day in the DCA C90, hired a car and drove into Lae to confront said forces and tell them to stop being silly boys or some such:} They stomped out onto the airfield and were confronted by camo creme covered, fully armed soldiers who shoved a M16 in Al's face and told him to **** off...so they drove back out to NZ, climbed in C90 and proceded to **** off.:ok:

Seem to remember it took several days to convince them to pack up and fly back to Moresby.

At the time it was said Lae was to be turned into industrial parks and housing etc...but last I flew over it in 99 in a F28 it was still there all overgrown. There may have been a few good reasons to move there for PX...Lae was always a bit sporting in the wet season for F28s but Lae should have been allowed to continue, if only for GA...no way the Govt would have done that though as no passengers would have travelled to NZ to get on PX, they'd have got on Talair Dash 8 instead....no way was Dennis going to agree to Nz for the Dash 8, Bandits only while the rest of us in the bush operation stayed at Lae.

Many fond memories of Lae.

[tinpis]

Golly Okuk lasted til 86?
You can be sure chuck that the reason anything happens in pee en gee is because money is about to change hands.
Nadzab in my time was deserted but usable I recall there being a bit of WW2 wreckage still laying around.
The last time I was there was doing Kisengan (sp?) NZ coffee shuttles in the Porter .

[OzExpat]

Greetings from the country with the biggest navy in the world - 5 million destroyers... :}

Chuck...

They stomped out onto the airfield and were confronted by camo creme covered, fully armed soldiers who shoved a M16 in Al's face and told him to **** off
But not before relieving Captain Craigie of his camera and a few other personal possessions! :eek:

[Chimbu chuckles]

Ah Kisengan, Baindong, Kasenombe...was Bawan built in your day? There was a spot that drew a short breath on finals.:ooh:

And you're right....much talk at the time that Lae was to be carved up amongst the Pollies.

LOL Ozexpat.

[markben]

Gday Guys,

The BGT exam is still a requirement, a fellow aviator has just completed it!!! Quite difficult he tells me. The exams are all changing up here (crazy times) not even the CAA knows what is happening! This is to bring PNG into line with FAA (for some bizarre reason). Aussie rules must not have been working for the last 30 years. :mad: That was the last time my CAO's were ammended!

AVGAS is all but gonnnnnnnnnne (as Fatty would say) Nadzab now only has personal stocks Wee Wak same. Not sure about Madang, think last staff memo suggeted shell only, (didn't pay much attention, as my a/c drinks kero). The funniest thing was there was no Avtur at Hagen for sometime, you should have seen the locals trying to "top feed" a Dash from drum stocks, these guys had arms like popeye!

Fortuantely shell is back in business now so turnaround times have been restored to just slow, rather than painfully slow.

So to all those private guys planning your fly away to PNG, not only plan your LSALT's carefully but also fuel supplies at destinations.


Marker Beacon

[Chimbu chuckles]

I cancelled my plans for a big return to PNG trip in my Bonanza some time ago....for all sorts of reasons...fuel not being one of them at the time but it is now:ugh:

[OH410E]

Wonder how a Bonanza would go in the highlands Chuck.Not the silly strips of course but the likes of Chimbu?
Mackair had one yonks ago .

[Chimbu chuckles]

It'd go fine as long as you leaned the mixture before takeoff....when I think of all the groaning loads I pulled out of Chimbu in old BAF (61 C185) I think a moderately loaded A36 would be no worries. Menyamya etc would be fine too...not telling who, why and when but a 402 went into Kiantiba once...at least;) :E

[OzExpat]

By way of clarifying this issue, I finally had time to find out the real story. Yes, for PPL and CPL holders who wish to fly a turbine aeroplane, the exam is still required. This is apparently because it is not generally covered elsewhere in the training syllabus. For ATPL holders, it is only required if there was no coverage of the topic in the formal theory examinations.

Exemptions are available for pilots, regardless of licence type, if already endorsed on a turbine-powered aeroplane, or if holding a LAME licence that has a turbine engine endorsement.

We're going to discuss the whole issue in the coming weeks, to decide the future of BGT exams. If, as I expect, we elect to drop the requirement, I feel sure that there'll be formal advice issued in an AIC, in due course. I will, however, try to give some prior notice in this forum.

[markben]

Dear WX Man,

Don't worry about doing your exams up here at the moment The CAA in their infinite wisdom have issued a "half" set of new rules which nobody can follow without refering to the old rules. They also attempted to write exams for these "new" rules but once again have proved how capable they really are, so ALL exams are on hold till further notice. If you hold an Aussie licence they will issue you with a certificate of validation which will cover you for 90 "PNG" days.

As for BGT exams themselves history shows one fellow was flying a grand caravan in Aus but because it only had one burner he still needed to complete the BGT exam here. I spoke with another guy up here and he said he PASSED the multiple choice BGT exam, then was asked to return to the CAA for an aural examination on the same........ go figure!!!!! :mad:

Chuckles, as for Avgas I heard from MAF (the largest user of Avgas here) that the suppliers up here are not sure if they will continue with Avgas supplies or terminate, and IF they decide to terminate they will only provide 60 days notice. Strangely enough this is the time required to have it shipped from Melbourne. Can see the price of Avgas going skyward too, wish I had shares in it.

On a brighter note, the Marlin fishing is still excellent!!!!! :O


Marker Beacon
(still u/s) :{

[Chimbu chuckles]

Could be some cheap Turbo 206s coming on the market then...but I'll be waiting for those immaculate Helio Couriers from over the Border:ok:

[tinpis]

I saw many many funny planes in Sentani in the 70's some be worth a bit now if they was still there.

[troppo]

how bout this one...its my dream toy...

http://www.buckens.com/helio/New%20Pictures/CRW_0005.jpg

turbine helio courier (http://www.helio-courier.com/)


:ok:

[Woomera]

Shades of VH/P2-BOX!! :}

OzExpat, is BOX still at Jacksons?

Woomera

[Chimbu chuckles]

Nah BOX is not In PNG...I was the last PNG pilot to fly it...then checked out it's new owner and off he went back to his farm in Tasmania...I had heard he'd crashed it but that was unconfirmed.

I think I last flew P2-BOX in about 92 or 93.

And as for that Turbine Helio...PHOAAARRRR where do I sell my soul!!!!!

I used to be able to get BOX up and down in about 2 plane lengths with a little headwind:}

[OzExpat]

This is the only photo I have of P2-BOX, taken around 1984 I think.
http://www.fototime.com/78936EFDFECE60C/standard.jpg
No prize for guessing where this photo was taken... :D