PDA

View Full Version : Tour de France to change (re Armstrong)


con-pilot
29th Oct 2004, 16:05
France changes the rules for the Tour de France.

Iím surprised that no one has started a thread on this yet. I know that no one from France would have brought this up.

I have heard this story first on the local news here in Oklahoma, then on CNN, ABC, NBC, FOX and MSNBC. So I can safely assume it is true.

Basically the story is that France has changes the rules for the tour de France to shorten the time trials and lower the heights of the mountain trials. These segments are Lance Armstrongís best areas.

So I guess after watching an American win 6 times in a row the French have figured they canít beat him on bicycles so they well just change the rules to favor the French riders.

If this doesnít work (and Armstrong has not committed to racing next time) one can only assume that the French will change the rules again. Such as the French riders will only go down hill and Armstrong (and other non-French riders) can only go up hill.

If you canít beat him just keep changing the rules until you can.

I will now beat a hasty retreat to cover.

Proceed As Cleared
29th Oct 2004, 16:10
that France has changes the rules for the tour de France to shorten the time trials and lower the heights of the mountain trials.
Could the real reason for this change be, that they wanna give the cyclists the opportunity to be able to cope with the Tour without resorting to doping...? :ooh:

con-pilot
29th Oct 2004, 16:15
Now, why am I not surprised that the first response from Europe was to bring up the old and totally unproven charges of dope use by Armstrong.

Youíll have to do better than that.
:hmm:

tony draper
29th Oct 2004, 16:19
Why don't they just hire that Mad Irish Priest to pounce on Armstrong as he comes round a corner.
:rolleyes:

Proceed As Cleared
29th Oct 2004, 16:21
Did I say that Armstrong was doping? :confused:

Grandpa
29th Oct 2004, 16:21
Never trust the French con-pilot............
Every year Tour de France is changing.
Now, if you tell me Lance is not able to adapt to this year run I will be very sorry.........for him and for us, because we think here he is the best champion on this competition.

con-pilot
29th Oct 2004, 16:47
Actually Grandpa if I remember right Armstromg said last year that if he did win for the 6th time he would probably retire.

It would be nice for him to do so, going out on top. I wonder how long it will take for someone to beat his record of 6 wins.

Of course it could just take 7 years if someone was as good as him.:)

ontrackfor
29th Oct 2004, 16:56
It would be nice for him to do so, going out on top. I wonder how long it will take for someone to beat his record of 6 wins.

pity how they started testing for IBH(sp), eh.

con-pilot
29th Oct 2004, 17:02
Boy, some people never miss a chance do they.

Wino
29th Oct 2004, 17:51
Armstrong left the Postal Service bicycle team and has joined the Discovery Channel Bicycle team, and to the best of my knowledge he has committed to race again this year. I think that is the confusion on whether or not he is retiring.

Doesn't suprise me at all that they changed the rules. While not the first time in sports that the rules have been changed to handicap a particularly gifted athlete, this one was entirely predictable.

You did hear that a suprise inspection of Lance's room found him with several banned substances and they were going to strip him of his standings. Those substances? SOAP, SHAMPOO, DEODORANT, and TOOTHPASTE.

(that one was making the rounds of the sports radio stations after his last win)

Cheers
Wino

Proceed As Cleared
29th Oct 2004, 17:54
to handicap a particularly gifted athlete
Do you suggest, that Armstrong might struggle on shorter time trials and over lower mountains, Wino?

:confused:

Techman
29th Oct 2004, 18:03
Boy, some people never miss a chance do they.

Neither did you.

ontrackfor
29th Oct 2004, 18:07
There could be a million reasons why they altered the race-course. In yacht races, the markers change all the time. It is drawing a very tenuous hole in the proverbial cheese to assume the motivation was to cut Armstrong down to size.

On the other hand, where was Mr Armstrong during the cleanest Olympics ever (Athens)?

You did hear that a suprise inspection of Lance's room found him with several banned substances and they were going to strip him of his standings. Those substances? SOAP, SHAMPOO, DEODORANT, and TOOTHPASTE.

a suprise inspection will give you but a snapshot of a persons situation.

zeeoo
29th Oct 2004, 19:00
hi gentlemen

i dont like bicyble sports because it s dirty sport, so, lancee or not, i dont mind any cyclist US or french.

but what i can tell is that the rules change everytime, and i dont think thats to penalize lance, but to make the suspense and the surprise, so the aaudience, so the money...

BTW i can state firmly the french people admires lance

so, taking this kind os info to point AGAIN french people as US haters just make me sick as i am not one.

it is the kind of arguments poor minded french have against US "loook the invade us with their cocacolaaa"

cheers to all valuable us people and over other countries
be clever, the world will be better

My names Turkish
29th Oct 2004, 19:48
You dont' win 6 tour de Frances by having weak areas. Armstrong would still have one no matter how the course was laid out. I did a lot of bike racing when I was younger, and I came to the conclusion that they are all taking dope.

zeeoo
29th Oct 2004, 20:39
you re JUST - RIGHT - even amateurs at their very small level learn "tip"... i hate this kind of sport , cheats, alas for the sport itself

West Coast
30th Oct 2004, 05:07
And when he wins it again the French will try something else to reduce his competitiveness.

zeeoo
30th Oct 2004, 06:02
no no no..

ypu didnt understand lance WAS the attraction... stop thinking it s a matter of US haters,di you see the tour ? i didnt see people throwing stones at him...
he has an insolent competitivity and people would like to see their "locals" in, what s wrong.

remind even in soccer they eretalking about the size of the goal cage in order to have more goals so , more attraction, more money..

you talk about changing the ruls... look at international trades, THERE some change the rules if a company gets too competitive, you know what i mean (concorde, remember?)

cheers

Val d'Isere
30th Oct 2004, 06:56
In yacht races, the markers change all the time.
I'd like to see them try to change the size of the hills, though! :rolleyes: :}

BombayDuck
30th Oct 2004, 07:13
They did the same to Michael Schumacher & Ferrari. Fat lot of good they did..... by increasing the number of points and the points places, they only allowed MS&F to come back from a bad start in 2002-03 season to win. They wouldntve if it was the old points system!

And btw, removing the offside rule for field hockey eliminated the advantage stick work had; which was right where teams from the Indian subcontinent enjoyed it... now you can smack the ball to any lackey standing near the goal and they can tip them in. Add to that they made the change to Astro-turf which was made abroad and charged a nice high price to sell it outside - resulting in us having to pay through the nose to get wee patches of it. most field hockey in india is still played in the fields...

High Wing Drifter
30th Oct 2004, 09:21
Could the real reason for this change be, that they wanna give the cyclists the opportunity to be able to cope with the Tour without resorting to doping...?
Yes. Spot on! No doubt in my mind. In addition, to reduce the advantage of the one event wonder athletes...like Armstrong and others. Another problem is top-class sprinters being unable to finish!

visibility3miles
30th Oct 2004, 16:16
I thought they changed the course route every year, just to bring it to different parts of France.

If they shorten the time trials and make the mountain stages easier (where Lance tends to pick up a lot of time), I'm sure he'll just try that much harder in the other stages. Also, please remember that it is a team sport, and his team is completely committed to making sure Lance wins.

zeeoo
30th Oct 2004, 16:29
you re right the path changes every year, and goes also to forheign countries..

i m a car races fan and was assessor 2 years at "24 h of le mans", and after the domination of some famous official teams, they decided to change the rules, not to penalize porshe , mercedes or audi or mazda or toyota, but to bring back the real spirit of the race and make a place for amateur teams.

imagine lance's team has monster budgets and means and become the certain winner erevy year, you may understand, the sport looses some interest... ok you may say : other team just should improve them selves, i agree. but their means are nor comparable to F1.... and a lot of amateurs still racing..

Loki
30th Oct 2004, 16:44
Armstrong is a brilliant cyclist, nobody can take that away from him. I`ve read both "his" books "It`s not about the bike" and "Every second counts" (which I can heartily recommend).

I`m sure there is something of the "Tall poppy" syndrome about the way certain elements of the (particularly French) press treat him.

If he was on performance enhancing drugs (strangely invisible ones) they would surely have had an unfortunate effect by now. Having read what he and presumably other similar athletes have to put up with regarding random drug testing (at all hours of the day and night I am amazed that he has stayed in the sport/profession.

The last tour was a triumph and a tribute to the team dynamics of USPS. Armstrong himself explains the difference to the way other teams operate in his book.

Having said all that, I`m sure if I met him, I wouldn`t like him one bit...ditto Senna, ditto any other self obsessed and focussed sports champion. I can`t imagine what Sheryl Crow sees in him.

BTW Zeeoo, I didn`t see anyone throw stones at Armstrong, but Ulrichs supporters were reported to have spat on the great man. I believe I saw an interview in which he said that such actions only spurred him on.

zeeoo
30th Oct 2004, 16:56
""BTW Zeeoo, I didn`t see anyone throw stones at Armstrong, but Ulrichs supporters were reported to have spat on the great man. I believe I saw an interview in which he said that such actions only spurred him on.""

yes loki,these facts also came tomy ears and it s shame, but they have been used AGAIN to point to french people... i m tired of that

dont tell me that in soccer, hooligans dont throw or spit on others.. you ll find this kind of stupid behaviour in a lot of sports..alas..

but dont say France spat on lance... thats unfair and untrue

visibility3miles
30th Oct 2004, 17:05
I like the ad where Lance asks "What am I on? I'm on my bike six hours a day."

I also like his efforts to promote cancer awareness and treatment.

However, you know he can't last forever in this sport. It's too grueling.

Zeeoo, I think most cycling fans in the US are well aware that the French cheer Lance on.

Loki
30th Oct 2004, 20:03
Zeeoo:

Sorry, can`t find anywhere where I implied that French people were spitting on Lance Armstrong. I said that it was Ullrich`s supporters......chances are that (not that it`s important) they would have been German.

The only issue I have with the French on the subject is the appalling way a section of the media attacks Armstrong for having the audacity to be so good at what they feel is a peculiarly French sporting event.

zeeoo
30th Oct 2004, 23:23
loki, i know they didnt do that, unfortunately a simple minded US gent just throwed it in my face (i didnt ask)...

better have friends than enemies

tobzalp
31st Oct 2004, 10:14
Armstrong left the Postal Service bicycle team and has joined the Discovery Channel Bicycle team

Lance did not leave, postal took their sponsorship away.

In the AlpDe Huez TT this year I had a chuckle when the helicopter shot from above picked up a 30 foot high Lance EPO scrawled across the road.

Lance has always been a great athlete from his beginnings in Triathlon many years ago to where he is now. If he was European, there would be no problem. The problem is the French getting their baguettes all in a knot over him owning it up on their course. The guy rides all over the course getting things just right in the months before the tour whilst the rest are out for pay days.

He gets shit put on him for not being as good as Merckx as he has not won the 'other' races ie Paris Roubaix and the Giro as many times. I somehow don't think he cares. The man is the greatest rider to ever jump on a bike in the multi day tour discipline and you Euros just have to get over it.

Loki
31st Oct 2004, 14:35
To get back to the thread:

If the stages of the tour have been changed, it is to be welcomed if this results in what was almost an impossible physical task becoming more achievable for the mere mortal. If it results in less athletes being tempted to use performance enhancing drugs and if the honest athletes are no longer held in suspicion when they are successful, so much the better.

It may be that the changes may challenge the ascendancy of such figures as Lance Armstrong, but I wouldn`t bet on it. He and those like him are resourceful and adaptable people.....they did not get to their current status without guile and determination.

Back to Armstrong:

Tobzalp:

You seem to think that we "Euros" as you put it have a problem with Lance Armstrong winning Le Tour. Not so. The problem is more to do with the iconic status of the event. It is not just a bike race, but an unfolding drama. The tactics within the Peloton are a mystery to most of us (Byzantine in their complexity) , the combination of rivalry and chivalry on a stage bizarre in any other sport.

Armstrongs ruthless approach has ruffled a few feathers. He seems to regard Le Grand Boucle as not just another bike race, but as the bike race to win. He rides a limited season, calculated and geared to appearing at the prologue in race winning form. The fact that he does not win so many of the other big races is testament to this. I believe this single minded attitude has upset some of the traditionalists. It happens in other sports, the Australian press complaining about England tactics in the recent Rugby World Cup is a classic example. It is quite simply culture shock.

The other problem area is the quality of his competitors. They may all be of brilliant calibre, but how do the likes of Ullrich, Hamilton et al compare? Armstrong is head and shoulders above the best of them (though I have a special regard for Tyler Hamilton after his dazzling 2003 Tour....riding most of it with a broken collarbone and still managing one awesome stage win with a monster solo breakaway).

Interestingly, in my November edition of Cycling Plus, there is a news article about the ongoing feud between Armstrong and Simeoni. Apparently the Italians are accusing the great man of being a "sporting
fraud" and of bullying Simeoni during stage 18 of the Tour this year. It is certain that Armstrong left the Peloton and moved up to the breakaway group, formated with Simeoni and had a few words, after which the latter slipped back into the Peloton and stayed there for the duration. As I said, the ways in which cyclists race each other, particularly in this event are a mystery to most of us. And yet, in the same issue there is another article in which the Tour of Courage (a charity event held in Calgary) is featured. A photograph of a beaming Armstrong cycling alongside Hincapie (another great) and Phil Liggett, doyen of British cycling is accompanied by an article in which Liggett reports: "Armstrong was superb, talking to everyone (before he dropped them) and by the end of an extraordinary two days, he had brought the money raised for the foundation up to almost £3m."

ontrackfor
31st Oct 2004, 15:11
I'd like to see them try to change the size of the hills, though!
Easy-peasey, they just alter the latitude. Lower values for little hills and higher values for bigger hills.

eg: 100' hills not uncommon at 50 South. Problem is they move at 20 knots.

Diabolus
6th Nov 2004, 15:46
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/cycling/3988469.stm

High Wing Drifter
6th Nov 2004, 17:00
He gets shit put on him for not being as good as Merckx as he has not won the 'other' races ie Paris Roubaix and the Giro as many times. I somehow don't think he cares. The man is the greatest rider to ever jump on a bike in the multi day tour discipline and you Euros just have to get over it.
I in no way wish to detract from Lance's acheivements. However, I would like to elevate those of Mercx, Lemond, Hinault, et al. These people raced all year. They won classics, and tours. I think that is a staggering achievement compared to the latter breed TdF specialists like Indurain and Lance.

I think that Lance was probably just average (as was Ja Ja Jalebert) with a plucky and lucky world championship win during Indurain's era. I find the complete re-jeuvination that cyclists seem to go through when confronted with extended lay-offs due to illness and injury fascinating. Jalabert and Lance both returned as the world's best.

Personally, Lance deserves a place amongst the tour greats but I don't regard him as one of the best road cyclists simply because there is much more to it than just the TdF.