FAA/JAA instructor time - is it worth it (merged)

[escobar]

Hi,

I was wondering what the script would be if i went out to america and became a faa instructor. The school have told me that i would have to get my faa cpl ir and instructor ratings, which would take around 200 hours, i would be getting all my instructor ratings, however apparently of the 200h i could log 190 odd as p1. I looked into a bit further and believe that the FAA allow 2 people to log p1 time so my question is, If i went out to america could i log my training time as p1 and then log my instructor time as p1 also? and would the JAA accept it as proper hours? Or would i only be able to log my instructor time as instructor time, or would my instructor time be useless, or finally would i have to log my 200h course as all dual time and then i could log my instructor time as p1 instructor?? Hope that makes sense, thanx
escobar

[BigGrecian]

When instructing your the Captain of the aircraft and therefore resposible for its safe operation, so I should imagine its P1. The JAA will recoginiSe these hours.

[B2N2]

Ok let's see if I can explain this:

Flight time is logged different between JAA and FAA.
For instance in JAA country you log "IFR" time which is on an IFR flight plan.
FAA you log actual imc so cloud time.

As far as dual received and dual given;

Under FAA, if you are rated in the airplane you can log PIC.

Meaning if you have your PPL and you do your IR you log it both PIC and dual received since the IR is a rating and not a license/certificate.
Under JAA, any time an instrcutor is on board it's dual received.
So in your case all the training you get while rated in the airplane PIC and dual under FAA.
When you go back to the UK just deduct all the dual you received from your PIC time and you should have CAA recognised time.

[Keygrip]

Escobar - it's a sort of parallel question, not directly relevant to your question, but I'm curious about this 200 hours to qualify.

What licences and ratings do you already hold - and what flight times.

PM the answers if you prefer not to post them on the board.

[escobar]

Hey,
thanks for the information, to be honest it doesn't really make things clearer in my head, but thanx for the effort :O
All i have at the moment is a jaa ppl and am currently involved in my atpl's, exams on monday :\ the course in itself seems to offer every faa rating from multi private to ir instructor and you just need an icao ppl to get onto to it, that and a bit of money. Seems like a good idea to get hours but are FAA instructor hours what airlines are looking for? even on multis????? Think i'll start a new thread about that

<<edit: No, you won't. It's the same unanswerable question that you asked in the previous topic. How do you expect anybody to answer it? Are you going to base your entire future aviation career on the advice of somebody (who you know nothing about) posting anonymously on a board like this? All three of your ideas have their individual good bits - and all three have bad bits. The idea of just buying your ratings in the USA pi***s me off greatly for numerous reasons - one, the guaranteed right to work in the USA and use those ratings (bet that's not promised in the same advert is it) and, two, the idea that you'll get the ratings just so that you can fill your log book with student training hours at the expense of the students that you teach. Airlines are not the only way to go forward in the aviation industry - and if that's the only way you want to go, then get in line. There are thousands of airline hopefulls - many of whom are much further down the food chain at the moment - and FAA instructors waiting desperately to teach on multis are also 100 to the dollar.>>

[escobar]

Hi,

here is my dilema, when i finsh my atpls do i just take a risk do my jaa cpl/ir and apply to every airline that is flying, OR do i do my JAA cpl and/or ir and get my JAA instructor rating and instruct in britain or america OR do i get all my FAA ratings and instruct in america, where i can get multi instructor time, then do my JAA cpl/ir OR do i get myself a job where i don't have to pay for the training :rolleyes:

[escobar]

i think i'd have to be bloody stupid to base my career on an annonomous forum, but info helps. Thought that this board was supposed to help and i've been reading it for a while and have seen some crazy things asked which get answered, didn't think my question was that bad. I would think that the majority of people going through all this training ultimately want to end up in the airlines and whilst there are many paths the common goal is the same. I know that there are loads of people ahead of me and more clued up than me, which is why i asked for opinions. The suggestion is that i should get "in line" well if i was to get my cpl/ir and then go stand in that line, then there would always be somebody ahead of me

[traumahawk71]

In regard to your question as to whether its worth doing an Instructor rating or applying for a job straight away there is no right or wrong answer. By getting an instructor rating it does allow you to build your P1 hours up without having to pay for the privallage (in fact you're paid for doing it:O). I personally found that it also improves your flying no end especially when you have to jump in to correct a students mistake.
The path i have followed was to complete my CPL and Instructor rating and then instructed for about 6 months. Then during the winter months I went on to complete my IR. (the advantage being i had another 300 hours of experience under my belt). I've just finished my 1st year of instructing and have now ammassed a total of over 800 instructional hours. Not bad for an investment of about £4000 for my instructor rating. Currently applying for airline jobs with the added bonus of having over 1100 TT as compared to those who have only completed their cpl course and have about 220 - 400 hours TT.
Finally it seems that airlines are especially keen to see that you are still flying once you have completed your CPL/IR etc and regard flying 50 hours or more a year as a good starting point.
Hope this help TH71:8

[Keygrip]

Well it helps with one of the ideas - but how many threads have you read on the board that say "Airlines don't want to see hundreds of hours of instructing time in 152's".

The question, as I say, is unanswerable - as each idea has its merits, each idea has its bad points - and the question has been "done to death" over the last three years at least (since the airlines stopped recruiting).

[BEagle]

In the UK, currently it really does seem to be 'who you know' which makes the diference. A word or two from someone whose opinion is trusted and can vouch for you as a referee can make the difference between you being asked for interview and your application being filed in the bin....

Someone recently sent me a CV as he hoped to obtain an instructional post in the UK. But virtually all his flying training had been in the US, including JAR-FCL CPL and FI(R). Sorry, but there's no way I'd be interested in someone with such little experience of flying in the UK...

Another guy applied, saying that he'd had his 'Restrictions removed'. I asked if that included the 'No Applied Instrument' restriction - the answer was no. I asked if he had an IMC Rating - the answer was no. Then when he was supposed to turn up for interview, he failed to show. Would he get another chance? Err, no.

[escobar]

Really, so you would suggest that doing my flight training outside of britain is a bad idea? Its just that the usa offers much better value for money. For my jaa ratings was thinking usa for my cpl and jerez for my ir, however if i did that i would actually have 0 hours in the uk.
Thanx for your replies as i believe, the airlines don't like instructor time and as i have learnt usa time is bad, let alone usa instructor time. However at the moment the only way intot he airlines, unless u know someone, is with a 1000h TT of which they are really looking at 500 p1 in multi and above. Coupled with the fact that i think i may have just messed up my atpl exams, it doesn't look good :{