Jetstar plan to fly from RAAF base

[Wirraway]

news.com.au

Jetstar plan to fly from RAAF base
By Paul Starick
October 26, 2004

A PLAN by budget airline Jetstar to start flights next year from Adelaide's RAAF Edinburgh base is being considered by Defence Minister Robert Hill.

The northern suburbs air force base would be used as Jetstar's Adelaide hub for flights to the eastern seaboard and, eventually, services to Western Australia and the Northern Territory.

In a letter to Senator Hill, Jetstar said RAAF Edinburgh had the potential to become Adelaide's major secondary airport gateway.

The Qantas low-cost carrier argued extra flights into Adelaide would deliver significant tourism, trade and other economic benefits to South Australia.

Senator Hill is understood to have asked Transport Minister John Anderson to develop a national policy for the use of defence force bases by commercial airlines.

Jetstar, which was launched in May and operates from 14 east-coast destinations, has already announced plans to expand services to Adelaide next year.

Jetstar corporate relations manager Simon Westaway yesterday said talks with Adelaide Airport were progressing well but he confirmed the airline was "investigating options".

"We investigate options in all markets where we operate from," he said.

The airline wrote to Senator Hill in August, noting its plans to expand into Adelaide and detailing the successful use of Avalon airport, west of Melbourne. It said it wanted to examine the potential for a similar operation at RAAF Edinburgh.

Jetstar argued a precedent for operating at a military airfield had been set already with the use for commercial flights of RAAF base Williamstown, near Newcastle in NSW, which is home to F/A-18 Hornet fighters. The Defence Department leases a section of the Williamtown base as a commercial airport, which is serviced by Qantas, Virgin Blue and Jetstar.

It is understood the Defence Department flatly rejected Jetstar's request to consider operating from RAAF Edinburgh but Senator Hill has determined the airline's argument should be considered.

Senator Hill is understood to believe that consideration of Jetstar's request should include the potential economic benefits to SA and not focus solely on potential disruption to military aircraft.

RAAF Edinburgh – about 25km north of Adelaide and 4km west of Elizabeth – is home to the RAAF's Maritime Patrol Group, which operates P-3C Orion surveillance and anti-submarine aircraft.

In the letter to Senator Hill, Jetstar acknowledged the issue of an appropriate domestic terminal development at the base would need to be addressed. Jetstar is expected to start flights from Adelaide next year, probably after May.

It is likely Jetstar's routes from Adelaide would include the Gold Coast, Melbourne and Hobart.

Adelaide Airport would be the front-runner to secure the airline. But Jetstar has already shown a willingness to operate from alternatives to major city airports by setting up Avalon, 55km south-west of Melbourne.

Jetstar also operates flights from Melbourne Airport, 25km north of the city.

A spokesman for Adelaide Airport Limited, which also operates Parafield Airport, said only: "We are in commercial negotiations."

In his letter to Mr Anderson, Senator Hill is understood to have said there was no national policy on the use of military airfields by commercial and other operators. This is despite military and commercial operators already sharing airfields in Darwin and Townsville.

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[planemad2]

It is hardly new, as mentioned briefly, all Airline traffic into Townsville has been using Garbutt RAAF Base exclusively for decades. ;)

[Howard Hughes]

What about Darwin?

Is that not an RAAF base too?

Cheers, HH.

:ok:

[Uncommon Sense]

Not more 'Dirt Road' Air Force Bases! Where is Dick? Time to pick up the red-phone to Commissioner Howard! If only I could get the blindfold off - wait: maybe I can sue somebody?

[Or will they require a Radar Controller on Duty? ...... not likely - Class G all the way ..yeeeeehaaah!]

[planemad2]

HH,

It does mention both Darwin and Townsville in the article, but I am not as familiar with Darwin to comment.

Townsville, well let's just say I hope it has improved.

I still remember one night about 30 odd years ago, the tower had the Ansett DC9 cleared to land, and the TAA DC9 cleared to land fom the other direction on the same runway.

Luckily one of them chickened out. (TAA from memory).

Another night they gave the DC9 clearance to land with a reduced thresh hold of 250 feet, because they had a Neptune on the end of the runway.

When the DC9 Captain said he didn't think that was good enough to land over another Aircraft, he was told if he didn't like it he could always go somewhere else, it was THEIR Airport.

[Howard Hughes]

I once landed a Chieftan over a Hercules.

Plane had gear problems on the way back from East Timor. Did a wheels up on runway 29 at Darwin.

Having said that, there was a displaced threshold in operation, the 73's et al were landing on 11 and departing on 29.

The memories.....

Cheers, HH.


:ok:

[Arm out the window]

Joint user bases - nothing new there; Townsville, Darwin, Willy as previously noted have been doing it for ever quite successfully; also Canberra. Wagga not so long ago too, and what about Oakey. Avalon was also routinely used by Point Cook military aircraft when 1FTS was operating.
The only real bones of contention would be changes in access to Edinburgh in today's more suspicious climate, and access rights for competitors once approval was granted for one operator to go there.
Planemad2, have you flown into Townsville since 30 years ago? Hordes of military and civil aircraft operate there generally with good flexibility for all and not a lot of dramas.
I think the commercial wrangles will be the real issue; if Williamtown can do it, as a home for the fighter force, then security must be manageable, although we're talking higher capacity operations.
Times change, houses encroach on airfields, and population densities affect the need for access. Compromises all round.

[Aussie]

So much to military airfields staying military.
I understand sharing some, but soon the commercial operators willl take over every airfield the RAAF operates.
Working out of RAAF richmond, the last thing i want to see is Civies walking all over the place.

Go the government!!!

Wonder if theyll approve it.

[Keg]

c'mon Aussie (pun intended! :} ), given that you work at RAAF Richmond, I'm sure you'd be used to the civvies. QF defence services, the clothing store, the O's Mess, SGT's Mess, Airman's Mess. Don't need to go anywhere and half those that USED to be RAAF are now the civvies!! :E

That said, whilst you may see a few more civvie aircraft, I don't think you'd see them as I reckon they'd do the same they have at TVL, WLM and DN and have us civvies on the other side of the airfield.

[The Voice]

Isn't ED used as the rookie school for intending RAAFies?

The thing that may make the govt. the most twitchy is what is abutting the field. The DSTO, where all the secret squirrel bits and pieces that can be used for all sorts of nasty things shares a common fence line.

[L J R]

and don't forget the QF 747 / 767 doing ccts at Amberley on a regular basis - well they did in the 80s, & 90s.

[Keg]

Voice, lots of talk at RAAF Wagga of moving 1RTU to Wagga in a few years. They've been discussing it for the last three years though so not sure how or when it is supposed to happen but the long term future for 1RTU is supposed to be WAG.

[Icarus2001]

Senator Hill is understood to have asked Transport Minister John Anderson to develop a national policy for the use of defence force bases by commercial airlines. and the best of luck to you Mr Hill. Expecting a coherent, cohesive National policy from Mr Anderson is a big ask.:eek:

Would Learmonth also fall in to this category of joint use?

[Aussie]

Keg...
yes your so right. 1RTU is moving to Wagga, however when it will happen is another thing.
Its been moving for yrs now.
I think next attempt deadline is 2006.

Yeah half the base is Civvies. All the messes, Serco, what a great job Serco do too....
Toll Tenix has just taken over hte Logistics warehouse ect.
Yeah the only thing is, Williamtown and TVL and Darwin have room for the Civvies...where would you put them at Ric?
South end of the Runway? Surley not enough room. Western apron, RWY 18/36 used for Caribou grass runway ops, and the firing range...
Dont see where.

Good luck!

[Going Boeing]

Richmond will close in a few years time with most of the units going to an enlarged RAAF Amberley.

Jet*'s application to use RAAF Edinburgh was simply designed to negotiate a cheaper deal to operate into YPAD. If there was no alternative, the owners of Adelaide airport would simply charge top dollar.

[Taildragger67]

Aussie,

At RIC, if it were only a few ops a day (eg. max. of 2-3 a/c on the ground at once), couldn't they use the Air Movts apron & maybe pay for enlarging the Air Movts terminal?? Nice & close to the road so putting a driveway in wouldn't be too much hassle.

I'm sure Ronnie would love the extra income, but not sure what the locals would have to say about the 'loss of amenity due to increased aircraft noise' & all that mumble...

[regitaekilthgiwt]

Icarus2001, thought Learmonth already was a joint user airport...

[turnleftnow]

Increased aircraft noise at YSRI due to the occasional B717?? U obviously haven't been out there when the B707's are doing circuits or the FA18's shoot an ILS! As a former local I would say the community would love the flights, It takes way too long to get to YSSY in peak hour.

[DutchRoll]

GB,

Since they started saying Richmond will close and everything will move to Amberley, I've joined the RAAF, served 16 years, left the RAAF, joined an airline, and served another 5 years!

Taildragger,

Richmond Airmovements is literally right next door to the USAF detachment, where C17s, etc stage on their way to Alice carrying stuff destined for Pine Gap, etc. I really don't fancy the chances of them appreciating various unknown civilians wandering around that area. It is also inside a restricted access area (ie, in addition to the restricted access of the base itself), patrolled by RAAF guard dogs (yes, right near that area I had one of them say hello to me once straining at the end of his lead - fortunately I had my ID & spoke very nicely to the handler), etc, etc.

Richmond has all sorts of access problems & other hurdles which I don't think Jet* appreciates.

[Taildragger67]

Slightly off-topic...

Thanks Dutch Roll,

As I read your post, it reminded me of an AirTC camp at Riccy YEARS ago when a C-5 and a C-141B (one of the first 'B' conversions) were both on the flight line.

The USAF boys were kind enough to let me and my fellow ants climb all over the things. Great fun. I suspect the current crop wouldn't get the same chance. I had thought Hercs were big, but walking out under the raised nose of a Galaxy... !!!

[DutchRoll]

I suppose to get back on the topic - there are various issues which would make it difficult for Jetstar to set up at an existing military airfield which doesn't already have joint user facilities, including Edinburgh. As previously mentioned, the proximity of the DSTO in particular might make the Government baulk. At least the land is there, so in theory I guess they could build a terminal somewhere over the other side, but that's a big capital investment.

Airfields such as Darwin and Townsville don't have major operational military units based there anymore and already have big civil terminals located away from the military facilities, so it's not such an issue. Newcastle/Williamtown gets by because it doesn't have the civil traffic density to worry it too much, but I wonder how higher density RPT and F-18 formations scorching into the circuit on min fuel would mix.

[Milt]

Who gets the landing charges at joint user airfields?

And do the military pay fees at civil airfields.?

Pro rata perhaps.

Was once checking out Cranfield ILS with a Vulcan and deigned to touch and go on the odd approach. Eagle eyed ATC using binoculars counted the touches and billed Boscombe Down for fees. Was asked to confirm the number so that funds could go from one bucket to another!!

[No Further Requirements]

G'day all. As an ex-RAAF ATC at both Edinburgh and Darwin, this topic is quite interesting!

planemad2: I'd say it has improved. You will find that AsA and the RAAF use the same standards and use the same manuals on how to business. However, I'm sure there has been other similar incidents happen at non-RAAF facilities. We all live and learn.

Howard Hughes:Remember it well - I was fishing for Barra in the harbour and was going to ring the Tower and ask them what was happening with this Hurc buzzing around (it was scaring the fish - or we just couldn't fish!). The displaced threshold and associted clearance planes were calculated by the Darwin Airport safety officers (not RAAF employees) - they then told ATC, and subsequently the operators - what they had left to play with. I believe it was somewhere in the order of 7000ft of useable bitumen.

Milt : I believe, in Darwin, that the Airport operator gets the landing fees, and AirServices gets an RFF fee as they provide the fire coverage. ATC is free. (inside the Darwin TMA).

DutchRoll: There are still lots of Army choppers in TVL with the 5th Aviation Regiment being based there. Darwin has 161 Recce SQN with a hanful of Kiowas and a couple of Twotters.

I reckon, if Jet* are serious about using YPED, they would be better off looking at using the western side of the airfield and putting in a new apron (if funds allow). This would be like Willy - completely separate from the military facilities and only the runway being shared. I would be a security nightmare trying to get civvy pax near the 92WG apron, although the Airmovements Section Apron is closer to the perimeter and maybe an alternative with a new entry/exit point provided.

Cheers all,

NFR.

[Howard Hughes]

No further requirements,

Also remember this exchange the same day the same day on approach frequency, a C-5 Galaxy also returning from Dili calls up Darwin approach.

C-5: "Err Darwin approach, Galaxy - - - Heavy we have a gear problem, request priority handling".

Darwin Approach: "Galaxy - - - heavy, Stand By, you are NUMBER 2 in the emergency sequence!!"

C-5: "Oh shoot, well then I guess we're off to Tindal".

A fun day was had by all, can still remember about 300 of us up at victor run up bay, all standing on baggage carts, tugs, etc... watching the action unfold!!

Ahhh, more memories...I miss those days.

Cheers, HH.

:ok: