Devil Worshipper joins Navy

[Styron]

The devil and the deep blue sea
By Elizabeth Day
(Filed: 24/10/2004)

Link to Telegraph story CLICK HERE (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/10/24/nsatan24.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/10/24/ixhome.html)

http://www.dtek.chalmers.se/~d3wall/pics/ming2.GIF
Naval Technician Chris Crammer 'Just One of the Lads'.

A devil-worshipping non-commissioned officer in the Royal Navy has become the first registered Satanist in the British Armed Forces.

Chris Cranmer, a naval technician serving on the Type 22 frigate Cumberland, has been officially recognised as a Satanist by the ship's captain. That allows him to perform Satanic rituals aboard and permits him to have a funeral carried out by the Church of Satan should he be killed in action.


Anton LeVey: founded the Church of Satan, was also known as the 'Black Pope'
Ldg Hand Cranmer is now lobbying the Ministry of Defence to make Satanism a registered religion in the Armed Forces so that Satanists can join up without "fear of marginalisation and the necessity to put up with Christian dogma".

Mr Cranmer, who has been aboard the Cumberland's tour of duty in the Indian Ocean and the Persian Gulf since April, said that being registered as a Satanist gave him "the freedom of religion I wanted despite its controversial nature".

Satanists are encouraged to perform rituals in worship of the Devil, to fulfil their sexual desires and to change situations or events in accordance with their will. Ritual trappings can include a black robe, an altar, the symbol of Baphomet (Satan), candles, a bell, a sword, a gong and a model phallus.

Mr Cranmer, 24, is single and from Edinburgh. He has been in the Navy for four years and was promoted leading hand - the naval equivalent of corporal - in July last year. He told The Telegraph that he realised he was a Satanist nine years ago when he "stumbled across The Satanic Bible. I then read more and came to realise I'd always been a Satanist, just simply never knew."

He added that he had been "warmly congratulated" by his friends and family for becoming the Armed Forces' first Satanist but did not feel that the war in Iraq was "the Devil's work".

"From a military perspective, I believe in vengeance. I don't consider Satan to be an intelligently external force in my life; instead I consider it an empowering internal force. If I were asked if I were evil, I would say yes - by virtue of the common definition. However, if you asked my family and friends you would hear a resounding 'no'. I get a massive amount from my career, while sacrificing little."

Mr Cranmer added: "Freedom to practise my religion irrespective of location was one of the most important factors. I didn't want to feel I couldn't get out my Satanic Bible and relax in bed. I didn't want to bite my tongue any more when dealing with idiots.

"First, I can read what I want and express Satanic opinions without fear of prejudice. Second, I no longer have to attend religious ceremonial duties and am excused from all of them.

"Third, I will have a space provided for Satanic ritual practice - I'm not a habitual visitor to the [ritual] chamber, but to know that I have the facilities to use if need be is indeed a comfort. Fourth, I will not be subject to a denominational burial should I be killed in action. The Church of Satan will be contacted to provide a service, and if this is impossible, a non-denominational service will be performed."

The Church of Satan was founded in San Francisco in 1966 by its high priest, Anton Szandor LaVey, author of The Stanic Bible. Adherents live by the Nine Satanic Statements, which include "Satan represents vengeance, instead of turning the other cheek", "Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they lead to physical, mental or emotional gratification", and "Satan represents indulgence, instead of abstinence".

To register as a Satanist, Mr Cranmer was required to make an initial submission to his divisional officer, who assessed any security implications. According to Rule Satannia, the official magazine of the Church of Satan to be launched on November 1, Mr Cranmer was then required to give a 30-minute presentation in June to the chaplain and senior officers on board, explaining the tenets of Satanism. The commanding officer, Capt Russell Best, granted his request a month later.

Unlike members of the Army and Air Force, recruits to the Navy do not have to swear an oath of allegiance to the Queen as head of the Armed Forces.

The arrival of the Navy's first Satanist shocked veterans. Admiral Sir Sandy Woodward, the former Commander of the South Atlantic Task Groups in the Falklands War and a Flag Aide-de-Camp to the Queen in 1989, said that Satanism would be "terribly undesirable" on a ship.

"My immediate reaction is 'Good God, what the hell's going on?' " he said. "When I was serving, you were either Church of England or Roman Catholic, but I never heard of any Satanists. This sounds pretty daft to me."

A spokesman for the Royal Navy insisted that Mr Cranmer's unconventional beliefs would not cause problems on board ship. "We are an equal opportunities employer and we don't stop anybody from having their own religious values," he said.

He added: "Chris Cranmer approached his captain and made a request to be registered as a Satanist. This involved a formal stand-up approach, made in front of an audience, saying that he wanted to register as a Satanist and to practise his religious beliefs.

"The Royal Navy allows this kind of approach because it is clearly in line with current regulations. We are not aware of any other individuals who want to be registered as Satanists.

"Our policy is that, wherever practical, reasonable requests for time and facilities that do not impact on operational effectiveness or the welfare of other personnel, are met. The captain said that this decision was entirely up to the individual and that he is a good lad, a good worker on board. Nobody is suggesting there is anything at all dark about this."

Beware young virgins in the RAF.:p

[BEagle]

Not funny at all.

I'm far from being a god-botherer, but the vile activities associated with this non-religion are wholly out of place in a civilised society. Or even the navy.

I cannot imagine why this was condoned, but if they idiot who did so knew the full facts about this very dangerous cult following, he would hopefully have thought rather more carefully and refused any such nonsense.

[JessTheDog]

Isn't that a photo of Ming the Merciless, arch-enemy of Flash Gordon, rather than the chief Beelzebub-botherer from California?

[ZH875]

Beware young virgins in the RAF.

Are there any.

[Styron]

Don't worry the RAF have just recruited
http://www.bookpalace.com/acatalog/FlashGordonKurtzman88.jpg
Apparently he pulls up in his Aston Martin with a nice blonde on his arm and saves the day. Flash Bastard.

[BEagle]

"....he is a good lad, a good worker......"

That's what was thought about someone at an RAF base until Plod came calling one day during a paedophile investigation.

[Gainesy]

Sounds more like Jack doing a wind up. :)

[althenick]

Sounds like a visit to the chain locker is required :E

I don't think he'll last long once the word gets round. What's tolerated by their lordships isn't always tolerated by a ships company.:ok:

[Krystal n chips]

Hardly a precedent here---I once met a very horny little devil during a brief visit to sunny Culdrose---although I suppose she was more of a ministering angel at the time :ok: :D

[JessTheDog]

http://www.allscifi.com/aridor/index.asp?Autonumber=442

[qwertyuiop]

BEagle,

Tell me a religion that has not caused some concern. Catholics dont like condoms or abortion. Muslims dont like pork chops, bacon sarniees or homosexuals. C of E cant make up their minds up. Hindus don't like any military at all. American evangelicals dont like anybody but god fairing americans.

Give the bloke a chance, he probably has the safest religion of all.

[Navaleye]

20 years ago, the lad in question would have been invited in to a quiet corner by a FCPO and the consequences of continuing his course of action explained to him. Things HAVE changed.

[SirPercyWare-Armitag]

Reminds me of the Not the Nine O'Clock News sketch mocking telly documentaries.....entitled "The Devil...Is he all bad?"

But anyway
Assume this Jolly Jack Tar will be working Christmas Day then?

[BEagle]

qwertyuiop, do some research on 'SRA'. Then see how you feel.

And I don't mean Surveillance Radar Approaches.....

[qwertyuiop]

BEagle

Starting the search now.

Will I find anything worse than the abuse of children by catholic priests, the ferocious killings by muslims, the blind eye turned by C of E? I will have a look!

BEagle

Nothing found on SRA. Church of Satan found and I cant believe you are concerned about these jokers. Its like watching Father Ted and being concered about Catholics.

[AllTrimDoubt]

Am I not correct in thinking that the Captain is responsible for ensuring his Ship's Company follow a set of rules (Articles of War?...my memory fails me as to exact title) but I remember that the 1st Article states that he is responsible for ensuring regular worship onboard etc

I'm sure this didn't mean DEVIL worship! We really have gone too pc now

[BEagle]

Religion can have its lighter side....

When I joined Cranwell as a Flt Cdt, amongst the 150 or so on our entry were a few ex-apprentices, victims of the TSR2 'Supertech' era. We all had to declare our religion; most were CofE, RC or CSFC.

The ex-apps thought they'd be clever and become agnostics. When told that this would involve many searching interviews, they relented and decided that they'd think again. A few days later the RC padre was astonished to learn that they'd all decided to be RCs. Just as he was getting ready to pack for a congratulatory trip to the Vatican, he decided to do a bit more delving...

The reason? Well, the CofE had a parade at 1030 with an inspection, then marched to the church where the service started at 1100; after ogling the Ass Cmdt's daughter's ar$e for an hour, they marched back to the JMPG and were lucky to be free by 1230. The CSFC gathered in the JM entrance at 1000, then marched themselves to the CSFC church and were finished by 1100... Whereas the RCs just turned up at their church at 0930 for a bit of 'Benedictine in decanter per Julie Christie' and were usually legging it whilst we poor saps were still marching... Hence the astonishing religious conversion - they weren't silly!


The there was the black mate patrolling belfast who was asked whether he was Catholic or Protestant by some old biddie. "Lady, we've got more problems than that to worry about", he was reputed to have said. Another squaddie was asked the same question and replied that he was Jewish. "Would that be a Catholic Jew or a Protestant Jew" was the reply.

But there's nothing even faintly amusing about the sickening acts of depravity conducted by self-styled devil worshippers. I wonder just how slippery the decks of HMS Cumberland are in the middle of the night near the lee guard rail?

[Training Risky]

Well if the MoD does like to "...recruit from all sections of society...", then this chap should suffer no harassment. I mean, we have all types of heathens in the mob these days, definitely not on!!!!!! Take an enforced break from this thread!

For how long?:}

[BEagle]

Racially abusive as well as inaccurate, Training Risky.

A heathen is "One who adheres to the religion of a people or nation that does not acknowledge the God of Judaism, Christianity, or Islam."

[WE Branch Fanatic]

Most (if not all) faiths * have similarities. Therefore they might be said to consider so truth. They also involve concepts such as right or wrong, compassion and concern for others, and faith in there being more to life than the physical side..............

* Including those that don't include belief in God in a Christian/Jewish/Islamic context........

Satanism rejects all the above, involves no sense of morality or compassion, and places emphasis on not following rules and deliberately being different - sometimes intenionally setting out to do harm.

Would you be happy to be this person's mess mate?
Would you trust him with a weapon?
Would you trust him with your life?

I suspect that it it fear of litigation (European human rights laws etc) that is to blame...

[Big Cat Handler]

A heathen is "One who adheres to the religion of a people or nation that does not acknowledge the God of Judaism, Christianity, or Islam."
To go into more detail, a heathen is "a person who does not belong to a widely held religion (especially Christianity, Judaism or Islam) as regarded by those who do. So, assuming Training Risky to be a Christian, Muslims are heathens!

Thank you Oxford Dictionary.

If this chap's practices don't harm anyone else on board, why should they be stopped? The problem will be the attitude of the rest of the crew but, whether it's right or wrong, that no longer seems to be the overriding factor in such decisions.

Interesting to hear about his "ritual chamber" though. Will the Padres have to conduct services in the same room, or is there enough space on Type 22s for every religion to have their own room?

[Training Risky]

Well I will put my hand up and admit I didn't check the dictionary first. I was labouring under the illusion that a heathen was regarded by the CofE to be anyone outside of that particular faith..... it's been a long time since I went to church so I'm not completely up to speed with the terminology.

My point was this: We bend over backwards to make the mob open to all races, sexes and disabilities, no one group is allowed to be excluded.... why should one person be excluded because of his (odd) beliefs.

We shall reap what we sow....

[PTT]

As an atheist who only ever goes to churches for weddings etc I am often quite amazed by some of the words used during the services. All the "praise Him" and "thanks be to Him" and the "with His blessing" just seems a little silly and, quite frankly, obsequious to me - when I go to these ceremonies I tend to keep my mouth shut for all that stuff.
I couldn't care less whether the thing being praised is God, Jaweh, Vishnu, Allah, Satan, Zeus, Gaia, Huitzilopochtli, Ra or some form of holy gerbil - so long as the person doing the worshipping neither expects me to join their ceremonies or belief system nor allows their beliefs to infringe my (or others') secular rights, yet still manages to do their job in a professional manner, then they can crack on.

[Scud-U-Like]

The Captain's and RN's dispassionate and banal responses are exactly what was required and have ensured a mountain hasn't been made out of this mole hill.

If this sailor genuinely believes in his 'religion', at least he isn't being a hypocrite, like so many people, who claim to follow the Judeo-Christian/Muslim religions, whilst cheerfully committing every 'sin' in the book.

[tarbaby]

There was also the question of the plod who was working the streets of Belfast when he got a gun in his back - " What religion?" Very fast he said "Jewish!" Reply "Al Humdulilah!!"

[WE Branch Fanatic]

If you believe in nothing.............or have no moral code to begin with (unlike every other faith I know of - and non religous belief systems and philosophies like Humanism)......

[ORAC]

Just seen the CNN headline reporting the story. "Devil Warship".. :rolleyes:

[allan907]

Suspect that this plonker is working his 'ticket'. Seen it all before!

So, that'll be top of the redundancy list then.

[althenick]

Folks,

I've just been on the website. See some of the stuff below and make you own minds up. As for myself I reckon some of it's utter drivel on the other hand some of it I can agree With. Time I started going back to church :uhoh:

The Nine Satanic Statements
1. Satan represents indulgence instead of abstinence!
2. Satan represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams!
3. Satan represents undefiled wisdom instead of hypocritical self-deceit!
4. Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it instead of love wasted on ingrates!
5. Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek!
6. Satan represents responsibility to the responsible instead of concern for psychic vampires!
7. Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his “divine spiritual and intellectual development,” has become the most vicious animal of all!
8. Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification!
9. Satan has been the best friend the Church has ever had, as He has kept it in business all these years!


The Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth
1. Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.
2. Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.
3. When in another’s lair, show him respect or else do not go there.
4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy.
5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.
6. Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and he cries out to be relieved.
7. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.
8. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.
9. Do not harm little children.
10. Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.
11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.

The Nine Satanic Sins
1. Stupidity—The top of the list for Satanic Sins. The Cardinal Sin of Satanism. It’s too bad that stupidity isn’t painful. Ignorance is one thing, but our society thrives increasingly on stupidity. It depends on people going along with whatever they are told. The media promotes a cultivated stupidity as a posture that is not only acceptable but laudable. Satanists must learn to see through the tricks and cannot afford to be stupid.
2. Pretentiousness—Empty posturing can be most irritating and isn’t applying the cardinal rules of Lesser Magic. On equal footing with stupidity for what keeps the money in circulation these days. Everyone’s made to feel like a big shot, whether they can come up with the goods or not.
3. Solipsism—Can be very dangerous for Satanists. Projecting your reactions, responses and sensibilities onto someone who is probably far less attuned than you are. It is the mistake of expecting people to give you the same consideration, courtesy and respect that you naturally give them. They won’t. Instead, Satanists must strive to apply the dictum of “Do unto others as they do unto you.” It’s work for most of us and requires constant vigilance lest you slip into a comfortable illusion of everyone being like you. As has been said, certain utopias would be ideal in a nation of philosophers, but unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately, from a Machiavellian standpoint) we are far from that point.
4. Self-deceit—It’s in the “Nine Satanic Statements” but deserves to be repeated here. Another cardinal sin. We must not pay homage to any of the sacred cows presented to us, including the roles we are expected to play ourselves. The only time self-deceit should be entered into is when it’s fun, and with awareness. But then, it’s not self-deceit!
5. Herd Conformity—That’s obvious from a Satanic stance. It’s all right to conform to a person’s wishes, if it ultimately benefits you. But only fools follow along with the herd, letting an impersonal entity dictate to you. The key is to choose a master wisely instead of being enslaved by the whims of the many.
6. Lack of Perspective—Again, this one can lead to a lot of pain for a Satanist. You must never lose sight of who and what you are, and what a threat you can be, by your very existence. We are making history right now, every day. Always keep the wider historical and social picture in mind. That is an important key to both Lesser and Greater Magic. See the patterns and fit things together as you want the pieces to fall into place. Do not be swayed by herd constraints—know that you are working on another level entirely from the rest of the world.
7. Forgetfulness of Past Orthodoxies—Be aware that this is one of the keys to brainwashing people into accepting something new and different, when in reality it’s something that was once widely accepted but is now presented in a new package. We are expected to rave about the genius of the creator and forget the original. This makes for a disposable society.
8. Counterproductive Pride—That first word is important. Pride is great up to the point you begin to throw out the baby with the bathwater. The rule of Satanism is: if it works for you, great. When it stops working for you, when you’ve painted yourself into a corner and the only way out is to say, I’m sorry, I made a mistake, I wish we could compromise somehow, then do it.
9. Lack of Aesthetics—This is the physical application of the Balance Factor. Aesthetics is important in Lesser Magic and should be cultivated. It is obvious that no one can collect any money off classical standards of beauty and form most of the time so they are discouraged in a consumer society, but an eye for beauty, for balance, is an essential Satanic tool and must be applied for greatest magical effectiveness. It’s not what’s supposed to be pleasing—it’s what is. Aesthetics is a personal thing, reflective of one’s own nature, but there are universally pleasing and harmonious configurations that should not be denied.

[Engineer]

althenick

That list looks like the prerequiste qualitities for entrance into one of the special forces SAS or SBS :D

[PileUp Officer]

I can’t believe most of the people on this website and in military in general. There is an important difference between being overly politically correct and being stupidly restrictive but most military members seem to take it to the opposite extreme; how can some people (ie. most people on this thread) be so intolerant and excessively conservative?
This individual clearly has the right to choose to practice any religion he wants, I do not believe in Christianity or any religion but I don’t dictate how people who do should live. Personally I think most religions are little more than brainwashing to keep ‘the masses’ in line but I don’t insult religious people with this view unless they try to force their own views on me.
To be completely frank people who claim to be Christians whilst involved in military action in Iraq and Afghanistan (to name a few) are blatant hypocrites.

Your own way of doing things isn’t necessarily always the best way, try to keep an open mind and don’t ridicule other people just because you don’t believe or understand what they do.

PO

[joe2812]

Hasn't he broken rule 1? Giving his opinions on Satan to the world? As were all the other Satanists today, telling us what they think of this, that and t'other.

Secondly, why is he allowed to express his opinions on religion, the military and the world, but we aren't? Freedom of speech an all that works both way doesn't it?

Oh, and what is this mating signal? Do i need to know it??

[bad livin']

I could well be wrong, but I suspect that what we might have here is an "easy" on a magnificent scale. If that's so, outstanding...:ok:

If not, well, I've met people in the mob with some fairly hardcore personal hobbies and they've not always incurred any nasty treatment. 2 deck and below tend to dish it out when someone's being a real pain and causing grief in their peer group - would be interesting to be closer to this situation to see what develops, if anything at all.

[Sunfish]

Next question is dietary preferences?

Many years ago on an exercise a whole lot of us suddenly converted to Judaism after seeing what kosher mess food was like compared to the slop we were eating.

[althenick]

yow Sunfish that was a bit extreme! didn't it hurt:confused:

As for Matey Boy - I wonder if he'll be excused saluting the quarter deck when boarding Battle wagon?

[Seak1ng]

Any story which can spawn a headline like "Devil Warship" is fine by me!

:ok:

[jwcook]

Re the dietary requirements!!, IIRC its stewed Albatross, I can't see any problems there......:-).

[Rallygirl]

What a coinicidence that this story makes headline news just before Halloween!!!
I think it's wrong and certainly wouldn't want to be on th same ship as this Satanist!
However, each to their own.

[OKOC]

I think this geezer's got Dyksleksia and meant to write "stalinist" under "religious beliefs".

[Trumpet_trousers]

I think this geezer's got Dyksleksia

...If that were the case, surely he would have sold his soul to Santa?:D

[delta96]

As an 18 year old I considered myself to be a Christian. On joining at Dartmouth we were told that if we wanted to get anywhere in the service then we'd better be seen at church on sundays. This really, but really got up my nose, to be told how I should express my faith. Funny how such a higher number of general list cadets turned out for it than we SL(P)'s. I never went, except once when on a course with the crabs, to see if the padre was as funny in the pulpit as he was the mess.

[Scud-U-Like]

Good for you, delta96. It's about time the services dropped their institutional hocus-pocus and left everyone to their own beliefs. The first step would be to remove all the quasi-mandatory religious stuff from QRs. For example, if I wish to declare myself an atheist (which I am), QRs require my CO to send me for an interview with the padre (presumably in a final attempt to save my pitiful soul from eternal damnation). It'll be interesting to see what happens when I do get around to it.

[Lee Jung]

Bring on religious tolerance I say, it doesn't hurt to have all the bases covered when the sunburn is in bound!

If he is dislexic (sic!), then trying to shag a toga during the ceremonies must loose some of the impact!

Livin' the dream...

[terryJones]

I wonder, perchance are his 'Last Three' 666?

[D-IFF_ident]

NOW can a be a Jedi?

[walter kennedy]

He'd be quite at home in Abu Ghraib - perhaps he should transfer to the American armed forces who seem to share the same moral values.

[Maple 01]

Walter,
I don't remember the Yanks shooting 50 unarmed coppers in the back of the head one-by-one. Perhaps you could save your scorn for those who deserve it

[PileUp Officer]

But the Yanks have bombed and shot countless (well, actually about 10, 000) unarmed civilians and kids and started this whole mess for oil and rebuilding contracts.
They still claim to be Christians. Sick

[Maple 01]

Yes, it's all about oil, just like Kosovo:rolleyes:

Have a look an 'the no death clock'

[PileUp Officer]

OK, so maybe not in Kosovo but clearly in Afghanistan and Iraq it is.
The WMDs argument speaks for itself- ie none found (and i suppose the allies' WMDs are Weapons of Peace and Love?) and the human rights argument is just laughable- look at Iran, Central America and The Taliban as a few examples.

[Maple 01]

This isn't the right forum, but read UNSCR 687 and come back to me or drop by your Tac Int cell. No WMD? Check the BBC news

[Krystal n chips]

I am probably in a minority of one on this site in being a daily reader of the Grudian, but this article may be of interest --and probably comes as a surprise to the "less than pragmatic" who comment here:eek: makes an interesting read about said satanist


http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,1337620,00.html

[JessTheDog]

Talking about WMD:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3960813.stm

Intelligence has been used as a "PR tool" under Tony Blair's government, a former government expert has claimed.
John Morrison also said he did not regret speaking out on a BBC programme, even though it cost him his job.

He told Panorama that Tony Blair's claim Iraq posed a direct threat caused a "collective raspberry" in Whitehall.

The claims made by HMG were bogus. Almost everybody I spoke to in uniform at the time thought so; I knew people being robbed of NBC kit in Cyprus at the same time that Blair was claiming that Saddam had a WMD capability threatening bases there. It is likely that Blair et al thought that


The Cabinet at the time should resign from government, Blair especially. This is not so much to do with past sins (which themselves are worthy of resignation) but with future threats. Will anyone believe Blair if he says, for example, that Iran are a threat to UK interests? I don't think so! I will not support any future efforts of Blairs, whether in uniform or in civvies!

As to the legality of the war and resolutions - Kofi Annan has said that in his opinion the war was not legal. Who is this upstart? Only the secretary-general!

Sorry just remembered this is not the thread!

:uhoh:

[PileUp Officer]

Yeah, i regularly check BBC news, i found the following just now (these were the top search results for WMD, not dug up from some obscure section):

--
Tony Blair has come under fire after an official report found Saddam Hussein had no weapons of mass destruction.

The Iraq Survey Group found no evidence he had chemical, biological or nuclear weapons when Iraq was invaded.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3722290.stm
--
US President George W Bush has said he was right to invade Iraq, despite confirmation that Saddam Hussein did not have weapons of mass destruction.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3724894.stm
--

An official US report saying Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction when US-led forces invaded has intensified the debate about justification for the war.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3722306.stm
--

The Iraq Survey Group has finally laid to rest the central casus belli of the Iraq war.

In the most comprehensive report yet, the group, which is made up of more than 1,000 soldiers, intelligence analysts and experts, has concluded that there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq at the time of the invasion.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3722144.stm
--

Iraq had no stockpiles of biological, chemical or nuclear weapons before last year's US-led invasion, the chief US weapons inspector has concluded.

Iraq Survey Group head Charles Duelfer said Iraq's nuclear capability had decayed not grown since the 1991 war. [Which takes care of your UNSCR687 question- 687 came into force in 1991!]
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3718150.stm
--
Hmmmm....

[Edited 17.05 Local - repitition (sp?) of same post]

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

Getting us back on thread...........

Can't see what the big deal with this Satanic bloke is, after all homosexuality is a far more heinous crime in they eyes most "blokes" and it's been prevalent in the "Fish Ed" fraternitiy for hundreds of years..........................I mean it's even on record that Nelson and his chum Hardy were on snogging terms:E

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced