Well adjusted helicopter pilots

[SE7EN]

I would like to share an observation I have recently made.
I am an airline Capt who has spent almost my entire career on fixed wing aircraft.
Recently, I completed a chopper Licence mostly for recreation but have been completely bitten by the rotor bug! Unfortunately I am the wrong side of fifty so too late for a career change.
Because of my new found interest, I tend to go straight to the Rotorheads forum to read the posts.
What I am struck by is the seemingly complete absence of petty posts and responses, one often reads on the fixed wing forums.
I don't mean to sound patronising but it is very refreshing to find a bunch of more broad minded aviators than the ones I am generally used to dealing with.
From a human factors perspective, I am obviously curious as to why this should be so and wonder if the mentality is different due to the less 'International' nature of the flying duties. Perhaps this produces a less arrogant attitude and is replaced by one with a more 'grounded' and better adjusted outlook on life.
Any ideas?

[Heliport]

Pleased to read your comments - not patronising in the slightest.

Although, with exceptions, the nature of the flying duties is generally less 'international', we're probably the most international forum on PPRuNe.

Heliport

[Nigerian Expat Outlaw]

Not wishing to sound like an inverted snob or anything, but perhaps historically we have gotten used to being treated somewhat differently to our fixed wing brothers ?

We generally get paid less, are treated worse and in the "oil patch" we have been ground down salary and condition wise to the very bone by the oil companies. As soon as BALPA got working agreements (and decent salaries for pilots) with the two big North Sea operators they priced themselves almost out of the market, a contributory factor in the resurrection of Bond.

So maybe we are just used to being treated a certain way and over time we have adjusted.

Just a thought :)

[B Sousa]

Very Complimentary...blush...............but "Well Adjusted Helicopter Pilots"........ I DON THEEENK SO SENOR...
Go to www.justhelicopters.com and to the forum and see what gets dumped there. You may have to retract some words.
Most and I say MOST of the folks that I have flown with in the industry cannot count on both hands and feet the companies they have worked for . Those with grey on the hair also are mostly in a situation where they have to work till they die as they have no retirement set aside.
When I was in the Military I had two of my young heroes, who were getting out to fly in the bush. I grabbed them both and said dont let me catch you.. After ten + years, I saw one of them recently as he hopped out of a Citation Ten. He almost kissed my feet and said thank you for waking me up. Trust me, come visit the working world and you will thank your lucky stars you went Fixed Wing.

[SASless]

Sousa....you lout! You beat me to the punch....as soon as I read the thread title...I hit the buttons with the exact intent to post just what you said about Just Helicopters.

I have had telephone conversations with the owner of JH about how trashy it is....and he defends it as being "free speech" and thus superior to this site here.

During his brag....I burst his bubble a bit when I reminded him that I treasured this site and go here first when I am looking for news and technical answers....and went to JH only because it was USA based.....

I do know he is trying to rein in some of the worst offenders and his site has improved somewhat but is still no where as good as this one.

Instead of HAI.....we need an annual Pprune Bash.....to put faces with names!

[Banjo]

annual pprune get together of rotorheads. Sign me up and point me to the food and drink!!

[muffin]

Having just looked at justhelicopters.com for the first time ever I don't think I will bother again.

[CRAZYBROADSWORD]

Helicopters, lots and lots and lots of moving parts all trying to part company with each other in a machine that keeps in the air by way of lots of thrashing metal. Hence as a heli pilot I try not to add any tension or stress to the situation but putside the machine I am as loopy as the rest.
In my experience heli's are like diggers and JCB's they are there to do a job as best they can, fixed wings are about moving large numbers of people from A to B, hence plank drivers are all about checklists and routes and plates and more anal stuff and heli pilots just want to get the job done then go down the pub.
I think the fact the in your average heli you sit with the pilot means he or she needs to display a certain calm and confidence so as not to worry the pax, in your cabin at the front a plank nobody can hear you scream.

[B Sousa]

Sasless
A Party?? Heaven forbid Pilots who will drink themselves into oblivion..........
If we could pull it off, Im am certainly in the perfect location. La$ Vega$
All those U.K. prudes can hop on a direct from Gatwick via Virgin and I can get some group discounts at the casinos......
Would love to sit down with the powers to be at PPrune and talk about all the :mad: and the :mad: .
Maybe even some of those :mad: weenies who think they are gods gift to aviation.....
Other than that it would be great to shake a few hands of those who have put up with my drivel..........

[SASless]

Lost Wages....nay....Nashville.....lots of foot stomping music and good BBQ...and what we Americans call beer....or Billy Bob's in Fort Worth....and get Nick and Sikorsky to sponsor it in Bell's hometown!:ok:

[Dave_Jackson]

SE7EN

The really truly reason that this forum has such high standards is that the moderators kick people like me off.


Here, I'll show you how it works;

(snip) (snip)



http://www.unicopter.com/devil.gif Honestly, Pedalstop and Heliport, this post is just a joke. http://www.unicopter.com/devil.gif

(snip)s by me. Dave J.

[ShyTorque]

I'm perfectly well adjusted.

They used mainly a large ball pain ( :ooh: ) hammer and a metric
adjustable spanner.

The wife uses a rolling pin :ouch:

[Flypro]

Actually, its spelt PEIN.
Bit of a freudian slip S.T!! :ok:

[Disguise Delimit]

Well-adjusted?

Maybe. Perhaps because we don't work for massive airline companies, instead it is often a 2 or 3-pilot operation in the bush.

In Oz in 1989 there was a huge union shakeout of the fixedwing airlines, some pilots resigned and became untouchable, others stayed on and were branded scabs, pilots were brought in from overseas, the military was used, and so on. If you look at the D&G forums on airlines, you will see that 15 years later there are still uncrossable lines here. Bitter and twisted beyond belief, they will bite at any bait tossed out there.

But choppers and pilots just get the job done, and have some fun on this forum.

[ShyTorque]

Flypro,

No Freudian slip on my part......speaking as someone trained to spell and later how use a ballpein hammer before I became a pilot, I have to say:

Gotcha! Ever heard of IRONY?

Although a ballpein hammer is technically made of steely, rather than irony......... :p

P.S. Ever heard of a metric adjustable spanner? They aren't much different to an Imperial version....

[Floats Armed]

We are just helicopter pilots not brain surgeons or astronaughts. People who strut around with the old white silk scarf and an arogant attitude of "look at me, I'm a really cool pilot type", last about five minutes in the real world. Fixed wing dudes who aspire to be some sort of aviation demi - god need to get their hand off it.
Its just like driving a truck guys, but the trunk just happens to be worth several million bucks.
Blue Skies
Floats....Armed.

[Whirlygig]

Well adjusted and well balanced?

Absolutely, I have a chip on both shoulders;)

Cheers

Whirlygig

PS - Did someone mention a PARTY??

[Flypro]

Shy Torque,
Well, thats putting me in my place - but I got my bite!



PS I were an Articifer once upon a time too you know:ok:

[Gomer Pylot]

Actually, according to my dictionary, it's spelled 'peen'. 'Pein' doesn't appear at all. Of course, I don't have the unabridged OED, so maybe pein is in there somewhere.

[Flypro]

Gomer,
Please keep it clean, the mods will get you if you continue to write 'pein is' - even though thats not how my OED spells it!:ok:

[ShyTorque]

Sorry, Flypro, just wanting to prove I'm not as stupid as I look / sound / write (probably just as well I'm not :\ )

I thought it was plein to see. The pun / pein was intended, sorry if it has become a pain.

:ok:

[Mr Toad]

SE7EV,

I suggest that the different attitude you describe stems from our understanding of the temporary nature of the companies we work for and the generally low calibre of the management rotary aviation is able to attract. As a result we spend our lives building up a large CV file full of possible contacts and employers. It's like a game of musical chairs - make sure you're sitting down when the music abruptly stops.

In a bid to keep ahead of the distressing number of company shakeouts and takeovers many of us have become even more international than our fixed wing "colleagues", finding work all over the world. This is real survival and it breeds a certain self reliance; it also of course is a humbling experience when you realise that your fond beliefs in the superiority of your home country's training and standards are so much bull****.

So the more we travel around the world, the more companies we work for and the more professionals we meet. At this stage we begin to realise how little we actually do know about other people and Human Factors takes on a whole new dimension we must master; most fixed wing pilots lack this depth of experience. If they go abroad after early retirement they are treated to expatriate lifestyles and great privilege. This is directly the opposite to the helicopter pilot's life; from the pilot doing survey work in the bush in Oz to the guys and girls in the North Sea there is no room for attitude.

Obviously there are some pilots in the airline industry who do not would also fit into our world (but clearly would be better off by not doing so!); we welcome you to our pages! Sadly you will also discover that we too are more than human...

Many younger helicopter pilots go fixed wing during the expansion phases of your industry, and good luck to them; they generally enjoy the better terms and conditions offered but miss "real" flying and people. If it's a "job" they're after, then they will be satisfied; wives and young families can be sited in the comfort of the the suburbs of the big cities and properties will get more valuable etc etc. Speak to the wives of senior North Sea Commanders and senior 747 Captains and their lives are in stark contrast.

[SASless]

Gosh,

Someone is reading my mail....my brief Resume runs to three pages now....rehired by some companies two or three times even....sometimes I left them...sometimes they left me....sometimes they left the industry....try getting a security vetting when half your employers no longer exist....your former residences have disappeared....your friends, references, and places of employment have gone to the four winds and in some cases have no forwarding address. Usually though....someone at the new place knows you...knows someone that knows you...or in some cases...your reputation precedes you.

A dear friend who has spent more years living overseas....married a lovely German lady...resides near Munich and loves "hot" beer...once told me while quaffing green tins of below sea-level beer under the shade of a Mango tree in Nigeria....helicopter pilots live where the road ends and go from there doing their work. His description is so true in most cases...from Barter Island to Eagle Pass...Stornoway to Sumbrugh....to Moga....to the Escravos...to Bobo and five miles up Three Mile Bayou....to Unga....it is a life that some people only read about. Enroute I spent half my money on whiskey and women....the rest I just plain wasted!:ok:

[Mr Toad]

SASless

AMEN to that!

But in fact I query whether we're "well adjusted". Slightly alarming thought.

[HughMartin]

A true story;-

An exec pilot is escorting his client (a chairman of a large UK blue chip company) through an airport terminal towards his spotless leather lined aircraft when the client sees two helicopter pilots in coveralls and muddy boots sitting in the canteen. They were somewhat dusty as they as they had just finished a long day underslinging.

The client turns to the exec pilot and says "Captain, who are those filthy pilots?

" Oh don't worry about them Sir, they're working class pilots"

[madman1145]

Had a BIG laugh of HughMartin and Floats Armed posts :O :) :ok: ..

Well, if you can't become a helipilot, you can always fly FW, thereby that industry gets a wider representation of the population (and I'm ready to get smashed by FW pilots now for that comment :} ) - it's like everyone can get a driverslicense, but not everyone can learn to drive off-road ..

Haven't pilots in the FW industry for a looong time been seen as cool hard men of steel that could handle anything and still are seen like that in some part of the population? They can shack the stewardess just by their present. That probably attracts sometime - ehh - different personalities of students that I don't think are seen in heli's ..
But with the present of Low-fare airliners and most Flagcarriers following them, it's now just a busdrivers job with ****ty pay in the beginning in a long tincan at high altitude that can takeoff, go from A to B and land - that's it ..

I experience when I go out with FW students and people ask what we do, that they can totally relate what a FW pilot is, but saying I'm RW, they look more like a questionmark - yes pilot, but helicopter ?????????? - but where, how, what do they fly ..
I get the impression heli's never had the same glorie and God thanks for that - I know heli's are the coolest, funniest, exciting and tuffest to fly :ok: ..


Said from one who recently converted his religion (piloteducation) from FW to RW :cool: ..

[retreating blade]

This sums up the difference perfectly -

http://www.navalhelicopterassn.org/members/bubba.htm

[teeteringhead]

Yes, helicopter pilots are different. I'm speaking mainly from a military perspective, but I believe it holds true for all rotary drivers.

In the past I was involved in the "streaming" of military pilots, that is, deciding whether they would go fast jet, multi-engine or helicopter (and I know the military system is different now!). Then the idea was the helo pilots were "spotted" off the course, and the rest divided on pure ability between fast and pointed and the rest.

So what selected a heli pilot? Generally maturity beyond their (young) years and an ability to think for themselves. As someone once said, "There's no navigator or fighter controller to tell you what to do, and there's no TAPs (approach plate) for every field and clearing in Europe!"

So maybe the ability (or desire) to be in a part of aviation where you can and must make more of your own decisions makes the difference. But as to whether that means "well-adjusted" I don't know.

Certainly not at the parties.........:E :E