How Long to Train a Cabin Crew Member?

[VC9]

How long does it take to train a cabin crew member to the minimum standard required by the regulations?

I would suggest that a week is probably quite generous.

Dangerous goods awarenes course - 1 day

Evacuation procedures - 1 day

Security awareness - 1 day

Wet drill - 1 day

Avmed awareness - 1 day

Fire fighting techniques - 1 day

Most of the other bits are mainly customer service which are added byt the individual airline, not a legal requirement.

I would suggest that Qantas Longhaul cabin crew reveiw this before they get to the point of no return. It may also be illegal to strike over the overseas cap as it may be found that the cap may not be allowed within an EBA.

Should a union be telling a company how to run its business regarding the basing of crew?

[argusmoon]

That training schedule would reasonable if it meant the newly trained were on an aircraft with at least ten other experienced crew.Put all that INEXPERIENCE on one aircraft and if things go pear shape...Chaos.Bit like putting 4 S/O,fresh out of the academy on a jumbo and sending them to LAX or Jo`Burg
Also all longhaul crew are endorsed on all 747 variants,all 767 variants and the A330.When the A380 arrives...well I think that`s overload.
If you are a Captain on a jumbo and you have no experienced crew on board be prepared for onboard violence,medical emergencies,therapuetic 02 being incorrectly used etc.Better get the FO downstairs for the duration of the sector he/she will have all the skills to sort all the pax complaints.All techies have all the necessary interpersonal skills to overcome everything,that`s why the divorce rate among pilots is so low.

[Iakklat]

Argusmoon you are essentially unskilled labour.The impending dispute coming up will highlight how much so when cabin crew are trained within one week.
To think anything otherwise will be the downfall of your labour force.To draw parallels of having a jumbo jet crewed by S/O s is laughable and again highlights just how ignorant some of you really are. :ok:
The collapse of previous airlines just highlighted how overpaid and underskilled the flight attendant force really were.Just look around and see what the vast majority of your colleagues ended up doing for a fraction of the salary once earned.

Ps i will have fries with that:ok:

[VC9]

The object of my post is to point out that it is not very difficult or time consuming to replace a group of cabin crew, trained to the legal minimum requirements, if it comes to the crunch. Sure it would not be desireable. However it could be done.

With this in mind, it may be a good idea to have some idea of what you are realistically worth, in dollar terms, to your employer before embarking on a course that may lead to self-destruction. To gauge your realistic worth, you need to look past both the company's and union's propaganda.

[SydGirl]

VC9 can I ask why you did not post this into the Cabin Crew forum?

Seems more relevant there, don't you think?

Or are you interested in stirring up the pot and getting a FA vs. Pilot thing going?

SG
:}

[VC9]

Posted here because it is an Australian issue, and may well be heading down a similar path to 1989 where people thought they were irreplaceable.

Just be clear in your own mind as to your position before it gets to crunch time and be sure you know that the issue is worth the fight.

[SydGirl]

Ok VC9, I'll indulge you. What about (in no particular order):
Inflight Emergencies, Normal Procedures, CRM, Post Accident and Survival Techniques, Emergency Equipment, Type Differences - just to name a few off the top of my head.

Just FYI the regionals take 2 weeks to train a new FA, and they only learn one aircraft type with no service training (all service training is done on line).

I suggest you go through the 11 day training program and discover for yourself how "generous" it is. These guys are training for 11-12 hours a day, and mostly BOC. It's not an easy course, particularly for those that have had no prior airline experience.

You are talking about meeting the minimum requirement. If QF want to be a premium airline in a competitive market, is it truly prudent to have only the minimum required?

Just my thoughts
SG
:}

[jetjockey7]

Let`s face it every crew member these days(tech or cabin)performs in a different capacity than they did 30 years ago.With three FMC`s on a jumbo after rotation what pilots do is monitor.The aircraft essentially flies itself,and what is it? 1 in 5 aproaches,landings have to be done by George.Airbus has the right idea....design the pilot out of the flight deck.Talk about unskilled ....my great aunt fanny could fly a jumbo or even any eight year old who has spent more than 2 hours on the internet.
The mystique associated with being an airman vanished a long time ago.The technology exists now to send pilotless aircraft any where in the world safely.At present the travelling public may have alittle problem getting their head around that concept.Make no mistake... a pilotless airliner is not that far away.When there is an excess of pilots people like Iakklat will have 2 choices....Crop dusting in a Tiger Moth out the back o`Bourke or driving a Greyhound Bus between Sydney and Cairns at a greatly reduced salary.What could a Pacific Baron do if he was made redundant?What sKills would he have to offer a future employer?.Previous occupation...God,just doesn`t cut it.No interpersonal skills and apart from terrorising hapless second officers and intimidating little girls what other LIFE skills do they have?None!!!
Wake up and smell the roses technology has caught up with you!!!

[VC9]

SydGirl

There is a large difference between company requirements and the bare minimum regulatory requirements. I am sure that if it comes to the crunch the company requirements will quickly change to the bare minimum regulatory requirement.

Just providing food for thought to those of you looking at the world through rose coloured glasses.

[itchybum]

Ah jetjock... the old self-derogatory pilot chestnut. Ok I'll bite.

I'd like to see your granny apply her own life-skills to a CRM LOFT. Maybe she could gummy her way out of a few systems failures.

As for the old "pilotless-airliners" line... yeah this one gets rolled out every now and then. So who's gonna pay to be flown around by Win XP or some nerd in a windowless room with a keyboard? Wake up and smell the napalm, man, you can't possibly be that stupid! Even the Sydney Monorail has a bored uni student cardboard cut-out pretending to drive so the punters will still get on.

But if you insist on your version of the travelling future, then with your stunning powers of foresight you should be able to see that the various pilot unions around the world will gladly give in to the inevitable... IF every pilot is paid out at the appropriate rate to NEVER come back to work. The airlines will jump at this cost of your vision of things to come as it will be a fraction of the savings to be had. Me, I can't wait for the happy day.


PS I disagree.... avmed and fire-fighting... a half day each.

People keep talking about "premium" airline, service, etc. I thought previous threads, ad nauseum, have shown Qanthais are considered by the public to be anything but premium when it comes to service. Have a read of the old crikey.com articles.

That's a lot of money to scowl and hide behind the curtains on the standard japan or LA allowances-collection.

[jetjockey7]

I see you have never heard of natural attrtition.......cost neutral.
Napalm....just a tad emotive.My great aunt fanny does have a PPL.
I reiterate things have changed for all of us.Casting aspersions on your co workers is totally pointless.

[itchybum]

Natural attrition will take a long time for all the 23yo cadets. But I'm sure you're right...... :ok:

[Feather #3]

Short memories around here.

In the early '80's with the -SP dispute, QF operated without FAAA crew for quite a while. Upset the ACTU at the time when they went back to work after a few other skilled workers had lost a deal of pay.

G'day ;)

[SydGirl]

VC9,

There is a large difference between company requirements and the bare minimum regulatory requirements. I am sure that if it comes to the crunch the company requirements will quickly change to the bare minimum regulatory requirement.

Could not agree more.

Whether this is really the right thing to do, is an entirely different matter.

Itchybum is also correct in saying that the general public's perception of Qantas is not that of a "premium" airline. Qantas however is trying to market itself that way. What I'm saying is that if they want to market themselves as a premium airline, then customers expect a premium product; and rightly so, since they also pay premium prices.

Training their staff to fulfil a minimum legal requirement is not (IMHO!) creating a premium class of airline.

Shall be following this matter with great interest.
SG
:}