Loss Of Nerve ?

[cloudchaser5]

Hi there

Just wondering ! Not sure if its old age , or just statistics ! Have approx 4500 hours various types , but have this feeling lately of not being comfortable in the air !

Have had no serious problems in my flying career todate , have had a lot of warning lights over the years , lost engine in flight etc..

Does anybody else experience this sense of being uncomfortable at times for no apparent reason ! even flying in excellent VFR wx can feel ill at ease

Any thought grateful

[flygunz]

You might not find that your thread will produce many replies as I haven't met many Pilots willing to bare their soul when it comes to talking about things like this. Therefore I applaud your honesty and would think that you should talk with someone qualified to work this out with you.
From a Pilots perspective I'm of the opinion that there is a very definite point in a flying career where reliance on luck is replaced with decisions based on experience, perhaps you just need to realise that you're ok at what you do and stay in control.
Otherwise, take a holiday, de-stress and consider whats important then make a judgement based on how you feel.

Wish I could take my own advice!!!:ok:

Regards

[SASless]

I sometimes have that feeling....usually when the weather is the best....the sector is a very long one...plenty of fuel...everything is absolutely hunky-dory.....then one has time to think, contemplate one's choice in occupations. What brings this on....beats me. I always wondered what it would be like to sling a blade....would it depart at the five o'clock position or somewhere else....I think I settled on the eleven o'clock direction for some reason.

On the other hand....when the weather is like that Chinese Indian girl....Ug Lee.....fuel is an issue....turbulence is banging you about....temp is running just below freezing...and it is raining yet.....I do not seem to get those uneasy feelings.

I see the difference being having the time to think about things that should not be thought of while flying....those are best left to other times. Bottom line, if you have these thoughts you are only getting in touch with your own mortality....it is a risky business we are in. I buy lottery tickets too....hopefully I will win that one before my number comes in on the other.

[B Sousa]

Dont know if you can call it "Loss of Nerve". I find it can be called "Loss of Interest". After 35 years its just not the same. I only want to fly on nice days, hate going to the Grand Canyon in 30-40 knot winds as I know the PAX will Puke and I will get the S:mad: kicked out of me. Just NOT FUN.
I remember the days when I was starting off, I couldnt get enough flight time, eyes were wide open....Time moves on. Now its work.
I find the best way to keep my spirits up is to continue working part time at different locations for different companies. Routine differs and it is always a learning process as to new procedures, maybe different aircraft etc. It puts the challenge in the equation and as a partimer Im no threat to the guys who need fulltime work to support their families.
Flygunz is pretty right on as some keep quiet so their employers dont get wind of their feelings.
I feel better already, time to head for the Big Ditch.

[NickLappos]

cloudchaser5,

It is funny that you bring this up. Every now and then I get that realization that I am a mile above the ground and the thin aluminum skin is all that is between me and the ground. A sort of "gee!" feeling that is discomforting, and makes me look carefully at the gages. I never thought about it until you reminded me.

I think it might be a sign of intelligence, but I flunk because I quickly let it pass!

[VTA]

Many moons ago, when I flew in the RN, walking out onto a pitching, rolling, heaving flight deck at night under "tactical night lighting" procedures i.e. next to none, always made my heart stick in my throat....Once airbourne, everything was fine again, it was the unknown that made me uneasy. Most of the guys in the squadron felt the same way and talking over a few beers sure helped reduce the feeling of "am I alone". Talk to the guys you work with it will help for sure and again, I admire your honesty.

[MightyGem]

Want to get that "uneasy" feeling? Just take a look up through the roof at the head whizzing round. That'll do it every time. :uhoh:

[jayteeto]

I don't think you have lost your nerve. People do sometimes feel this way and it can be one or more of hundreds of reasons. One of the most obvious is fatigue and underarousal. Can you take a break? A real break where you can rest your mind, not a week of catching up on DIY etc, stressing yourself. I also have 4500 hours and have a new job (same unit as mightygem) I suddenly have no paperwork to do and 12 hour shifts take forever.... Sad I know, but I have started to fill my time with trivial things like crosswords, model making, reading and I feel 10 years younger. My flying is becoming fun again. I now realise just how stressed I was in the military.
If you are not stressed, you may just be bored and have too much spare capacity to think about the bad things. Get a new challenge and see how you get on.

[Lu Zuckerman]

Many moons ago when I was a flight mechanic in the USCG I operated on the “Grey hair and balls philosophy” I figured if the pilots had some Grey hair that meant experience and if they had the balls to fly it I would get in and fly with them.

Some time later I was offered a direct commission in the USCG as an engineering officer with the opportunity to attend flight school. I would have been involved with the introduction and maintenance of the HUS-1G (HH-34). For personal reasons I turned the offer down. Almost every one on that program was either killed or injured in the crashes of the helicopter. My next opportunity was a direct commission in the North Carolina National Guard and direct entry into flight school. That would have lead directly to Vietnam. I turned that offer down as well.

But the thing that makes me a reluctant passenger in anything that flies was my involvement with helicopters and fixed wing aircraft as a tech rep and mainly in my 35 year involvement as a Reliability, Maintainability and Systems Safety Engineer on helicopters, commercial aircraft and ships. What I saw relative to the manufacturer willingness to overlook flaws in their respective systems in order to cut costs or save time made me ill.

Then there are manufacturing errors and the errors of the mechanics maintaining the systems.

Couple all this together and you get systems that are not nearly as safe and reliable as the manufacturers and operators claim.

Even though I am reluctant to fly I still have the greatest respect for the guys that do.

:E :E

[The Ferret]

Cloudchaser5 - are you sure that it is lack of nerve? Maybe you are doing just as you should and running through those emergencies in your mind, one by one, and deciding what action you would take if, by bad luck, the helo chose to throw one of them at you.

NickLappos's comments echo my experiences (3,500 hours of them!) when you look out the window down at the ground a long way beneath you and wonder what would or could happen if the thin fuselage decided to part - but then you should turn these thoughts to the good practice of running through the "what ifs".

I am sure that every pilot, if he/she chose to admit it, has had similar thoughts - those of us who are still flying put these thoughts to good use. Pilots who allow their minds to wander, will scare themselves further and should keep their feet firmly on the ground.

Hope this helps. :ok: :ok:

[2Sticks]

Cloudchaser5, I think what you're describing is what many people experience - even if they've never flown an aircraft. Isn't it the case that everyone, at some time in their lives, thinks about their own mortality. Not just in a 'deep 'n' meanful' sense either - I'm talking about maybe driving along in your car at 70 mph being aware that there are hundreds of other cars coming towards you - any one of which could flick out of control and crash head on into you. Perhaps it's that same sort of feeling you sometimes get in the air, flying along, minding your own business when you suddenly think 'what if'?

I believe it's probably perfectly natural - it's only thinking about the risk and maintaining concentration that keeps us alive in such situations. As a low hours PPL(H) I occasionally think those 'what ifs?' - you just end up thinking something like 'well, everyone's got to go sometime' and then you get on with the job in hand.

A bit like all stress really - some of it is essential to keep us alive and kicking, too much, and there can be serious consequences.

My vote is you're perfectly normal (or the rest of us are bonkers too!)

:ok:

2Sticks

[MightyGem]

Taken to extremes, this slight unease can result in something called Break-off Phenomenon, where the pilot gets the sensation of being removed from the aircraft, often reporting of being outside the cockpit looking in. It is a dissociative psychological reaction classically reported by high altitude, single-pilot, jet fighter pilots, on long transits with little to do but monitor the instuments.

However, helicopter pilots have reported episodes of break-off phenomenon. Typically, it has occurred in level flight at greater than 2,000 feet above ground level on hazy days or on long cross-country missions over featureless terrain. Interestingly, it has been reported by pilots flying side- by-side with other pilots. Radio communications usually alleviate the dissociative symptoms.

[SASless]

Gem,

Closing one's eyes works too....for a very short while.

Did the annual dive training gig for the Sheriff's Office today....did a Short Haul evolution that convinced me I am absolutely normal...I was uncomfortable having five guys hanging under the helicopter on 90 foot ropes....if I had been on the rope instead of flying it....I would have been petrified!
Now ask me if I had any misgivings about hovering over the middle of a large lake for three and a half hours in a single engine helicopter (with no emergency floats....)....one cannot be too introspective in this business.

[Whirlybird]

Way back...and I've been PPRuNing for a long time...someone started a thread on Private Flying, saying that he always felt really, really nervous before going flying. He asked how many hours you had to have before that feeling went. Well, guess what! Loads of other people posted..."I've got 500 hours and I still..."; "I've got 2000 hours and...". It was NORMAL to feel that way. Almost everyone did, at one time or another. Loads of people were relieved that it was out in the open, because they'd thought they were the only one, and hadn't dared say anything.

The only time I haven't felt that way from time to time was for a very short time as a new student, when I was foolish enough to completely believe my instructor, who told me that helicopters were really, really safe, that these engines never failed, etc etc. Ignorance was definitely bliss! It wasn't till I learned a bit more, flew a bit more, and...well, lived a bit longer, that I realised he was wrong. Flying's never been the same again...but I'm flying safer al least.

So, cloudchaser, I think you're just NORMAL. :ok:

[flyer43]

Although I've occasionally suffered specific "concerns" when airborne, especially when a student is at the controls, I've always had a "healthy fear" of flying and have promised myself that if I ever lose that fear I should give up flying.
Although I thoroughly enjoy flying, the "healthy fear" I have helps to keep my mind focused and reminds me that things can, and do go wrong - so be prepared.......!!

[J.A.F.O.]

It's not called fear, it's called respect; respect for all of the things that are trying to kill you today. It's healthy, in fact it's the only way to make sure that the things don't kill you.

[flygunz]

I'm of the opinion that most of us under estimate the psychological effects of flying regardless of whether we operate low level at night using systems or up at altitude responsibe for passengers. It wasn't until I worked with the US Army as a FI that I managed to put some of my psychological demons in the correct boxes, realised I was mortal and normal and was able to operate better.
I think the comments about the 'loss of nerve' are spot on, I don't think it's usual to lose your nerve whilst flying I would have thought a loss of nerve would stop you going in the first place, therefore I agree with Whirlychick you are just like the rest of us... just maybe not so good looking!!
:cool:

[SASless]

Flygunz,

I think the concern was about the onset of anxiety while flying that did not necessarily have an identifiable cause. We can all account for the "normal" concerns about things that happen based upon statistics....engine failures...tail rotor failures, etc. I think the original intent was to seek input from others about those sudden "What am I doing here!" feelings we sometimes get.

Take me to 5-6,000 feet above the terrain in mountainous country....in a JetRanger without a full set of instruments on a smoky/hazy day.....(with adequate visual reference)...and watch me squirm....but in a 212 with a full dash....and no problem. Is it the second engine...the full instrument panel...the seat...or the lack of a good browline/horizion sight in the JetRanger...that gets me?

Interesting statistic out of the PHPA Safety Conference.....our industry kills 59 pilots per year and the rate appears to be increasing. How many airline pilots die in accidents each year?

[flygunz]

Sasless
If one feels anxious for no apparent reason then the cause is most probably psychological rather than a situational or stastistical reason. But hey no arguments from me, this is the first thread in a long time where I feel a bit of a bond with my fellow professionals and if possible would invite ya'll round to share the Wild Turkey :\
I just hope cloudchaser is getting the right responses.

[diethelm]

In an insane world, only the sane feel insane.

[Devil 49]

I rationalize that I'm better trained to deal with flying than some of the other things that happen-

Glanced up the causeway I was driving on, to see a tractor trailer snaking back and forth- no where to go, but off the edge- no time to stop- fate entirely up to that other driver- who has more than he can handle already.

I aspirated an aspirin, once.

Sitting at work, hear odd, sharp impact noises overhead, and a bullet falls onto the desk.

I'll fly until it's not worth it anymore, then I'll do something else. In the meantime, I know that the vast majority of accidents are pilot failures. I pay attention.

[bloodycrow]

..while chatting to a very experienced driver, he mentioned having a close call once while in the cruise somewhere over the highlands of Papua New Guinea.

He recalled having a very distinct gut feeling that something wasn't right, but he couldn't pin it down at the time, so instead he just slowed the 212 down a little.

A short time later a twatter shot across ahead of him just as he came out of a pass in the mountains.

The moral to his story was to go by your gut feeling and if it doesn't feel right, do something, anything to break the chain of events.

[Reefdog]

Very interesting subject

I read a book on this sort of fear/anxiety a few years ago..it was based on on fighter pilot in WW11 in the battle of Britian. the brits needed pilots badly.. this bloke did the training and got through...they put him in a daytime fighter role and was so sh.t scared was useless...At that stage they (RAF) were putting a night fighter sqadron together called the night stalkers.. he joined this sqadron and came an ace...

His fear was speed and height..

Sorry I can't remember the books title...

google.com has some interesting subjects on night stalkers.

[Plodin Along]

Cloudchaser: Not a pilot but know what you mean, having lived with a pilot for a few years. And even with my own job every now and then you get a reminder that you are breakable.

I once dealt with an incident where I was on my own and thought I was going to be killed... Never wanted to go to work again, let alone go out on my own, but I did and those feelings passed.. Now back to being slightly blase but I'm sure I will be given many reminders I'm not infallible before I retire !!!!

Live life to the full and it wasn't a wasted life.

:ok:

[rudestuff]

I must admit to a slight problem with heights (perhaps thats why i switched to helicopters?) It's probably just because I spend all day long on the deck, that on the few occasions i get to 2000' it feels a bit weird. Never used to get that problem in a cessna...

[Delta Torque]

Hi Cloudchaser,

I think you are pretty normal...I do most of my flying multi engine these days, and around 1 or 2 thousand.

If I take a single engine to altitude, I start thinking about the little mast holding the head etc...which is pretty silly really, considering a fall from 50ft will do you in just the same as one from 5000...and in my earlier days, I used to fly singles at high altitude with no worries or cares...IMC too :(

These seem to be feelings that cut in over 40 years of age, from what other pilots have shared...

I just grit my teeth and look at the map....

[Lord Mount]

I have not been flying very long. I only got my licence in March. So I don't have the luxury of time to think about feeling uneasy. My head is still full of trying to get it right.
I used to do a lot of skydiving filming (about 1200 jumps). It was easy to me, I would think nothing of strapping a camera helmet to my head, climbing onto the outside of an aeroplane at 13000 feet then diving off after a bunch of craters looking for a grid square.
I used to get those same feelings you mentioned. Even though I had packed my own 'chute, 'dirt dived' and gone through all my emergency procedures in the plane.
I think once the job becomes easy there is the possibility for complacency and your brain subconsciously recognises that.
The feelings you mention are perhaps your subconscious giving you a bit of a reminder.
I found that if I changed my routine for a bit (ie just did some stupid fun jumps) the feelings left.

[Texdoc]

Seems normal to me too (or am I abnormal already). I have been involved in many and varied dangerous work activities and often get 'That feeling'. I guess it is experience that tells you when to believe it or not. In any case I always take stock of the situation and once you have convinced yourself everything is OK it is time to analyse whether it is irrational or just the normal fight and flight response.

Funnily, being a pilot of other aircraft also I tend to get it at different times. In helicopters it ALWAYS occurs to me while in flight. Never before or after. With other fixed wing aircraft I only ever have had it before or after. Never inflight.

Me I like the adage to never fly with someone braver than you are and if someone says they have never had that feeling and will never get it I would prefer not to fly with them either... I see it as the body and minds own self preservation device and it is natural to want to preserve both (preferably not with liquid preservatives).

[Chimbu chuckles]

A plank driver's perspective?

In my early 20s learning to fly I was bullet proof. The things I tried in Decathlons teaching myself aerobatics don't bare thinking about for very long...I also 'got away' with a couple of emergencies in my first 300 hrs.

Approaching 1000 hrs, bush flying C185s and Islanders in PNG highlands, about to change jobs, about to get married I was VERY aware that I was in dangerous territory...That was my first year working full time in the industry and I had already lost 6 friends + 1 aquaintance in aircraft accidents...3 pilot mates that year in PNG and 2 non pilot pax in a C210 crash back in Oz and my first Instructor + the chap that did my initial IR in a CAA Bonanza midair with a glider in Oz.

As the years went on I lost on average nearly 3 friends every year I flew in PNG...38 over 13.5 years. Air America didn't lose pilots like that...and we were doing the same flying in the same aircraft but without the Pathet Lao complicating things....much higher mountains though.

I had a few more engine failures but that just made me comfortable that I knew how I reacted under that sort of pressure...I had a couple of REAL close calls with weather and terrain (one a zoom climb in cloud in a Twin Otter with trees flicking past the wheels < 30' away...not caused by flying in IMC below LSALT btw way...caused by drizzle turning instantly to cloud when at very low level in mountainous terrain crossing a gap in bad weather) that left me shaking.

When I finally went airline flying I was very aware that I had 'got away' with something for a very long time...but also that I would never experience as much fun in my daily work again...but also that there was simply very little likelyhood of surviving that style of flying indefinately.

Now I crisscross the world in a Boeing widebody and it is about 30 minutes of fun interspersed with 8-12 hrs of....not fun:}

I own a Bonanza but where I used to happily fly a C185 around steep jungle clad mountains in all sorts of weather I am uncomfortable in my Bo at night over anything but dead flat terrain. I think that is purely a function of getting used to the increased redundancy of a widebody jet...I have flown my Bo at night in weather and while I enjoyed the challenge I also felt...exposed.

After 12000 hrs I still get a big enough buz from my job that just sliding into my seat puts a smile on my face even if I was in not the best mood before that...my seat in my Bo puts on a bigger smile than the 'company's' seat in the Boeing:ok:

I was thinking about taking my Bonanza up to PNG for a 'cook's tour/busman's holiday' next year for a fun trip down memory lane while burning up a mth or two annual leave...but I realised that I wouldn't...because I worried that having survived it once I was taking a significant risk for the sake of a trip down memory lane that will probably sour the memories I have anyway...and now I am a single parent so what right do I have to take that risk...so instead I will go somewhere interesting in Oz and several weeks in Vanuatu staying with a mate out there and diving/sailing etc....the PNG trip would have been fun though....

Aint life a paradox:ok:

[Chimbu chuckles]

Ahhh motorbikes...owned a few...FJ1200...1500CC Honda:E

When I think of the kicking my Luck Bucket has received over the years:uhoh:

Now I try to shepherd what is left in it... to make it last until the Experience Bucket gets full...the day I stop flying....hopefully a long time in the future:ok:

[kjw57]

That uneasy feeling started for me after the grand kids started arriving. ??? Who knows why but after 30 yrs. mostly all in the rocks of coastal BC I began to wonder is it worth it? So much time on the wrong side of the curve, dangling drip torches, Long lines & anything else that attaches to a belly hook, so many good people who are no longer around to ask for their thoughts on the subject.

Still once my thumb or finger is on the starter it's all good again...for an hour or two. Had this conversation with the companies Op's manager about L.lining some gear to a repeater site in the Rockies at 10,500'. Door off, head out Jeez that's a long way down, first time I'd experienced the feeling. This same person, who was my relief pilot on that job, confided in me at the end of the season that he too had to tighten up the seat belt on that job. Talk it out and find your insights... excellent thread should be more like them.

For me the upside of these contemplations is leading me in other directions and new challenges. No shame I know what I've done, and look forward to what I can do. Your feelings are normal.

Fly safe.

[170']

Very Interesting thread CC5...

My personal trigger for a sense of uneasiness,fear and loathing. Is height!
A steady climb to a reasonable altitude is ok! But instant altitude is what gets me.

Flying high to low over a 5000' rim will make me squirm. It's a similar sensation to when I'm watching my wife open a plastic box with a sharp kitchen knife. I just feel uneasy. Nothing's happening, just a sense that I wish I was somewhere else...

I had a great friend years ago who knew I didn't like flying high. We were ferrying a 214B to a jobsite in S. America, and I fell asleep in the right seat during his leg. When I woke up. We were at 10,000'.

It took me 3 days to get over it...

I think we should abandon height minimums and implement height maximums. I can't think of a single reason, legitimate or otherwise that would make me want to fly a helicopter at 10,000'AGL...

For all you guys who know legitimate reasons for high level cruising. Keep it to yourself. I think you're sick puppies, and I won't listen to your Pinko,Athiest blabber! ;) ...170'

ps...CC5...The responses to your post are pretty self evident regarding nerves/sanity. Either we're all ok or we're all nuts!..You are not alone ;-)

[Stringfellow Dork]

Excellent thread. Especially when there's nuggets as funny as this in it...
...similar sensation to when I'm watching my wife open a plastic box with a sharp kitchen knife...
...still chuckling!

[heliduck]

I'd have to agree that the more wrecked machines I recover & the more friends/aquaintances which meet an early demise the more I question the sanity of flying under powerlines or chasing cattle out from under trees. I have recently had a 2 year stint off from flying to get some cash together in a politically & socially unstable country & I don't mind admitting on a few occasions I also had that "what the @#*$ am I doing here" feeling. I've put this feeling down to the evolutionary "fight or flight" instinct, a function designed for self preservation to keep us alert & build up the adrenalin. As the saying goes, we can either be bold or old, but not both. Like some of the previous posters' I have had an experience when the hair stood up on the back of my neck. While surveying powerlines I had an uneasy feeling so I climbed to survey the situation & give myself time to check everything & about 1/2 mile ahead was a long single strand wire across my intended flight path & I know I would not have seen the poles at each end of this span - freaky. As my flying experience built I also came to the conclusion that it was ok to feel "uneasy", as when this happened I found myself checking & double checking guages etc, but if I ever got myself into a situation which caused adrenalin to flow then I had stuffed up severely. Familiarity breeds contempt, fear keeps that contempt in check.
While on this recent jaunt into the 3rd world I also came to the conclusion that if I did have to die(& don't we all) then my first choice is peacefully of old age in the arms of loved ones, second choice in the rolled up wreckage of a helicopter. I do everything humanly possible to eliminate the risks of each flight but accept the fact that at some stage it is possible that won't be enough.

[Algy]

Similar kinds of 'irrational' fears are well-documented among some of the best and brightest out there. RAF medical literature, from memory, identifies phenomena such as a feeling of fearful loneliness flying between 8/8 layers (often cured just by making a radio call), and the alarming sensation of being balanced on the point of a needle at altitude.

One up to Pprune that people feel they can talk about it here. Probably no better solution than sharing it.

[jetflite]

I had an indepth talk with an ex mil pilot who stated sometimes you just get that feeling like you shouldn't be flying today!

I personally feel that it can be positive and negative,

Positive: It may give you a situational awareness advantage, that you are constantly on the scan, looking for safe places to land (providing it doesn't FALL APART)

Negative: It may consume to much of your thoughts and concentration, distracting you from the task at hand "Aviate, Navigate & communicate"
you may get so worked up that it basically drives you into a state on phycosis where any second your waiting for the a blade to depart . .

best conclusion i can draw to, anything that falls off is out of my control, so i try to push it to the back of my thoughts (thourough Pre flight "Might" help put the mind at ease), but finding some where to auto, or keeping a keen scan to get onto a indication before it becomes a problem is something you can be "Prepared" for.

At least you'd hope to make the 5pm news for your 30 seconds of fame, then chances are it'l be blamed on Pilot error to save the manufactures/engineers/(enter name here) having to fix the problem. :}

[Colonal Mustard]

I decided to give up flying, spent hours deciding, then comfirmed my decision in my mind........the following day my mind was on the (how do i break it gently but by leaving the door open to my employers) sketch whilst walking to work...........Boom, i ended up on the bonnet of a car which had`nt seen me and i had been oblivious to them as my mind was miles away luckily it was low speed...........changed my mind and havent sent the e-mail yet!!!!!!!!:ouch:

[SASless]

Is this the time to discuss the "Single Breath" method of cruise height selection?

Some may know it as the "Single Scream Height".

Theory is....if one flys at a height that provides for a good hearty "scream" until impact, without requiring a second breath to carry on, then one will not get scared into a panic mode on the way out and seemingly will not have time to decide it is not your time yet and die all conflicted.

It is said...far fewer ghosts would be created by this method of height choosing. Some reckon ghosts come from souls that were not ready to cross over that bar.:E

[mini]

Sounds like classic burn out symptoms IMHO...

[212man]

Once saw the smudges of grease round the rivets on a B206 looming through the window. Lived to tell the tail, drank two bottles of Gin that night with the pilot in the RHS (was an observed training flight). One day I was glad to be alive, the next day I wished I was dead: God I felt ill!:\

Realising you are now dead is an experience I would wish on no one.:(

[SASless]

"Glad to be Alive" parties.....wonderful to attend but terrible to get over!

I have attended a few of those myself....but never scared myself bad enough to drink a bottle of Gin...much less two!

Had an engine failure in a Hughes 500D one time....just before dark...coming off Mt. Neuhaeuser near Tok, Alaska. About 9,800 feet up....nothing but forest for miles and miles. Got it down without a mark on the bird....other than the ragged bits of seat cushion I chewed off on the way down. After my knees started working again....walked nine miles to the nearest road....got retrieved by friends out looking for us by truck.

Celebrated with bottle rockets, whisky, beer, and concerned female geologists. Camp fire, Northern Lights....what a night. Awoke early the next day....about 3PM...sobered up the following day.:E

[yellowbird135]

Quite a couple of years ago I had a fuel injector line come apart on a 269C. 500ft AGL, Engine Revs came down to appr 2000 (should be a bit over 3000) I remember that my first look at the RRPM dial showed rotor revs already under yellow. A single flare solved that. After landing between the cows, send the pax away...... they were wondering why we landed away from the scheduled spot (I didn't even have time on my way down to keep them informed....full of stress and everything). After a couple of hours sorting everything out, fitting a new line solved the problem on the spot. Started up, and flew back to base on my own, I remember on my way home avoiding every single tree, house etc, let alone forests and villages. Every 0.5 seconds a glimps on the panel and intently listening to all the noises to see if there was something unusual
You could say that I was just a little nervous on that RTB flight
However, it was one of the most valuable experiences in my career so far.

[22clipper]

Saw an interestin' item in a recent NatGeo mag. It was stats on ways to leave this life presented as circles of probability. The biggies were heart attacks & cancer, expiring in an aircraft prang was tiny by comparison. The scary one was the biggest circle of all, chances of a fatality at the end of your life....100%. I still reckon choppers are safer than automobiles. I'll go for a jolly in a helo just for the pleasure of it but I'll save up errands to do them all in one car trip rather than risk multiple excursions on the roads.

Was at a mates weekender last Saturday when the power went off. A few minutes later a friend, who was flying over in an R44 to join us for breakfast, landed out front. When he got out old LiveWire (his new nickname) looked a bit rattled and when the blades stopped turning it was obvious why, he'd taken out the high voltage feeders strung over the gorge at the rear of the property & USd the MRBs in the process. He threw his new cap on the ground cursing it. The rest of us decided it was his lucky hat.

Most fliers I've talked with admit to occasional feelings of disquiet. Sometimes I reckon its harder for us recreational pilots because we're not actually obliged to be up there for work, so its difficult to justify turning up again after a near miss. I've encouraged LiveWire to get back in the saddle soon. Another pilot acquaintance reckons helicopters are killing machines and that, for some pilots, its only a matter of time. Once you've convinced yourself you're not one of those pilots its easy to climb aboard again!

[IFMU]

Getting too high gives me the heebie-jeebies. I fly helos infrequently now, but I'm flying and towing gliders. When I get a request for a 4000' AGL tow, I feel like I'm balanced on the head of a pin up there. The funny part is that as soon as the glider cuts off, and I can get upsidedownish and split-S away, I feel better.

When I was working on my PPL in an enstrom, I did a night X-C with my instructor to Great Barrington, Mass. It's in the middle of nowhere, pretty dark, and a good little hill south of the airport. I decided I wanted plenty of altitude over the hill. So, I climbed up to 4000'. My instructor, a 4000 hour pilot & former CW2 with half of his helo time in combat, Vietnam, shines the flashlight on the altimiter and says "Holy Crap, where are you going? I've never been this high." He may have been pulling my leg, but I got the feeling he wasn't too keen on being up there.

-- IFMU

[AdamFrisch]

I was well into my helicopter training on H300's and had 'lost' interest in fixed-wing, even though I had a fixed PPL. Was totally in love with rotor and could think of nothing else. But a good friend convinced me it would be cool to step up from our small C-172's and PA-28's to a retractable, constant speed fast single, so we agreed to get a new rating for the PA-32 Lancer II.

We flew from Stockholm, Sweden to a smaller airport in Västerås to do some patterns and get a thorough check by the intsructor. After having satisfied him, my best friend took off solo and flew a couple of patterns. No problems. Finally it was my turn. I jump in, line up and take off.

I remember feeling severly behind the machine during climb - everything happened so fast. Gear up, manifold pressure, climb rate, turn - all of a sudden I was screaming into a long downwind at 150kts while my brain was still on the ground.

All of a sudden another plane calls up on the intercom (no tower) and announces it's on a long final to the opposite runway I used for take-off. In effect landing downwind. I inform the other aircaft that it's just me in the pattern and that the runway in use is NOT the one he's on long final to, but the opposite and that he should divert and join the downwind leg. All the while trying to get a glimpse of him in my dead spot behind the aircraft (a kingdom for a Cessna with rear windows, I remember thinking). No response, but I do hear a click on the radio. Just to make sure, I transmit the same info again, still with no answer - just that click.

I'm so behind the aircraft now, trying to read the check list as I turn base and figuring out if I can drop any flaps at this speed and whatnot. Gear out - almost forgot - hectic, nervous, stress and agony. Before I know it I find myself having to turn into a much to short final at too high a speed. There are high hills on the left side of the rwy, which makes it hard to see any traffic on it until you're actually lined up. So when I finally come straight from my much to steep bank to line up and land, all of a sudden I see a C-172 coming straight at me on the rwy! He's doing a touch-and-go, so he's already in a slight climb. I slam the throttle and start a frantic climb to the left. Luckily he goes left, too. Maybe it wasn't as close as it felt, but in my mind I could count the rivets on his belly.

I shouted abuse over the radio to the offender, but this time not even a click. He just disappeared. I managed to land on shaky legs next time around and got a thrashing by the instructor for lining up so late and at such angle. He hadn't seen the offending C-172 (he was hid behind the hills and couldn't see the rwy), but when I explained what had happened, he said I'd done the right thing.

But actually, I hadn't. A click is not an affirmative response. Without a correct acknowledgement or readback, I should never have completed the pattern for landing. His radio was most certainly malfunctioning.