ATPL Exams & Feedback

[mushie]

With the first set of ATPL exams fast approaching, can anyone tell me how accurate the general feedback is deemed to be from the various schools, i.e. OXford\Bristol.

I was also wondering how much one should rely on the feedback as opposed to the actual learned syllabus.

Also another discussion I was having with various people was whether someone could pass the exams with the bare facts and a complete set of feedback questions logged in memory?
For the record I don't believe it can be done, but am sure there are people out there who will tell me otherwise!

[silverknapper]

Oxford and Bristol both have excellent feedback.
Don't rely too heavily on it. It's great for thinks like comms, m&b, Radio nav, planning, and human perf. However the other ones have such massive question banks that learning them would be impossible. However feedback is an excellent revision aid, I doubt I'd have gotten through without it.
As for the last point....impossible.

SK

[OneMileHigh]

Hello Mushie,

sorry to not follow the thread here, but I was more interested in you handle - Mushie.

Why Mushie, and more importantly do you know what it means in German..............

I shall leave you to find out :O

[Topgun 4122T]

You must by no means what so ever rely just on feedback for any subect .
1 > the caa know its out there and are constantly dumping or re-wording questions in the bank ...
2> I had feedback from a few different schools where the questions were exactly the same but the answers were different leaving you not knowing what answer the caa are looking for .
My advise is have a good handling on the subject because promise you when it comes to exam day you need to understand what the questing is really asking for and not what it seems at first ...and at 55 pound per exam its expensive to loose out by a mark or two .. goodluck topgun

[High Wing Drifter]

Also another discussion I was having with various people was whether someone could pass the exams with the bare facts and a complete set of feedback questions logged in memory?
No chance!

With BGS about four subjects were feedback centric. The remainder were supported by feedback. None of the remainder could have been passed just by learning the feedback alone as only about 5% percentage of questions were identical, another say 25%-45% were recognisable questions with change wording and/or options the remainder were more or less completely different questions.

The good thing about the "best answer" system is they only have to change the wording or the options ever so slightly and the answer you learned is now the wrong one.

[Rod Eddington]

At risk of disagreeing.... i'd say it probably is possible... a little risky though

anyone willing to try for the purposes of an experiment??

[silverknapper]

Bollocks

Take G nav for instance. over 2000 possible questions apparently so first of all try learning them. Then go to the exam and find they have changed the numbers in a few. Except you ain't got a CRP-5 cos you've learned the questions - indeed you probably wouldn't know what to do with it anyway. Then allow for ones you'll have forgotten......lucky if you get 30%, very lucky in fact.

[G SXTY]

The BGS feedback is very, very good, but I wouldn’t bet £55 a paper on getting through on feedback alone (and neither would the school).

In a nutshell, the distance learning phase teaches you the syllabus, the feedback teaches you the exams. They go together, and one probably isn’t very much use without the other.

[OneMileHigh]

In all seriousness this time, I am amazed that the question of feedback keeps coming up.

The only two exams where feedback essential are Law and Ops, mainly because as subjects to learn they are oh so dry. it would be nearly impossible to answer questions spread evenly throughout each subject. You definitely need the feedback to focus the student into the areas where historically questions have been asked.

For all other subjects, treat feedback as an aid towards brushing up prior to sitting the exams. There are many cases where students have clamoured for more and more feedback, an fail becuse they didn't possess the background knowledge required.

As has been said many times before, and within this thread, feedback has often been corrupted in either the way questions are asked, or in the answers provided. Also, for a lot of questions there are several similar question but with a subtle change to make one version of a question opposite in meaning to another.

Now, having said that: Why Mushie???

[Rod Eddington]

silverknapper... you obviously havent been to bgs or used its feedback fully

most subjects the feedback was almost spot on... no question you could get 75% on pretty much everything (and 100% on some) as long as you have a good memory... might drop one or two subjects if you're unlucky but you'd get em the next time.

[silverknapper]

Rod

I did in fact go to BGS, and yes they're feedback is excellent. Indeed I post often about just how good they are.
As I said at the top for subjects such as comms, law, human perf, ops and radio nav it may be possible. Just.
My example in my last post was General Navigation. 2000 possible questions. The CAA do change the numbers now and again. And you reckon you could learn that lot without attending a lecture or reading a book or using a CRP-5 or going to a brush up and still get 75%. Impossible.

[Rod Eddington]

maybe... but anyone who is sitting the exams will undoubtedly have some flying experience and will have done nav ie used a whizzwheel (therefore should get at least 25 if not 50% without reading any notes)... there were still plenty of wordy questions in the nav exam which were all covered by feedback when i did them

2000 questions certainly is a lot... but if someone put the same amount of time into learning them as you or i did reading the notes/at the brush-up i reckon they'd know them all easily.

i still maintain that the exams could be passed solely on feedback... as i said maybe not all first time... i dont think anyone would be stupid enough to try it though

[Topgun 4122T]

I agree with silvernapper on this on . There is not possible way to pass a gen nav exam without completely knowing the crp5 inside out considering half the exam is based on it .
I also was a student of bsg and found their feedback to be a very good revision aid for the exams but I know when I sat my agk exam I sat down that night and went through 1000 feedback questions I had for that exam and out of the 75 on the paper I found 25/30 max on the feedback and even at that they were not word for word ... and that was not just agk exam either .. In my opinion there is no way your getting through these exams just on feedback ! You'll be advised that at the brush-up course anyway. topgun

[thebeast]

without doubt feedback is the way forward. For subjects such as R nav, instruments, comms, hpl and airframes good feedback makes these exams reasonably simple. You still have to put in some hours but its amazing how u recall answers in the exam. Personally i find it alot harder to remember calculation type questions as found in flight planning and g nav so make sure u know what ure doing theory wise in these ones.

[Rod Eddington]

The question asked was could someone:

"pass the exams with the bare facts and a complete set of feedback questions logged in memory?"

Nav 'bare facts' are how to use the CRP5 which should give you about 50%... remember variation east magnetic least etc (should give about another 25%) and you're away. With that and feedback answers memorised someone could pass... no question


I'm not advocating this as the best method - I'm just saying it could be done

[silverknapper]

Now I see where we are getting confused...Rod is thinking of the PPL nav exam. Silly me, for a moment I thought he meant the ATPL. Thats the only nav exam I know of where variation east mag least gets 25%of the mark.

SK

[Rod Eddington]

errrrr no.... ATPL Nav... at least when I sat it.

my exam had numerous questions along the lines of... your heading is ...M deviation is .... variation is.... wind is... whats your true track?? that kinda thing... all easily answered with east least etc and a basic knowledge of the crp5

I don't know why you're getting so worked up I'm not levelling any personal insults at anyone just trying to have a sensible debate re feedback in response to mushie's question.