1st time flying abroad, how different?

[kilobravo]

Hi all,

I know many many of you have done hour building in the US and so will be able to answer this rather naive question. I have only flown in Ireland and during my 110hrs or so, have only visited a few airfields, all of then small. Irish airspace is easy to handle as it is uncomplicated and ATC, even when on a vfr flight plan tend to leave you in peace. Even so, I always found that 'procedure' was the most daunting task for me when flying ie;using the radio properly, approaching other airfields, joining to land in a correct manner etc. I am always very conscious of doing things just right and hate been unprepared for a flight, therefore I always feel the pressure to have my procedures down to a 't' before I fly. So this leads me to the following question. Being only familiar with Irish airspaces and small destination airfields, what is it like to go to Florida and fly in a completely different environment in terms of bigger destination fields, lots more traffic, different radio standards etc. etc. I need to do 47hrs P1 before CPL training starts and seeing as everyone seems to go Stateside for hour building, I guess I need some common sense advice . I am sure there are books on the subject of flying in the States, could anybody recommend one? Also when you get to the flight school do they take the time to bring you properly up to speed before letting you go out solo. I have my PPL and 110hrs spread out over the past 3 and a half yrs, so I do not consider myself experienced and due to irregular flying, would not be overly confident as it is difficult to feel 100% proficient when you have some 8week gap sinve your last flight and over a year since your last solo flight!!! I feel that going away would be great experience and a good confidence boost, and also a nice little holiday. So what say you in terms of advice? How is it done when you get there?

I am sorry to ask another question about Florida, I am sure everyone is bored to death on the subject but I am not asking about the quality of the schools or asking for a recommendation. Just about procedures and the flying part!

Thanks for any advice
KiloBravo

[G SXTY]

It’s not a naive question at all. Yes, flying in the USA is different, but it’s not going to cause you any problems. Any flight instructor who does his job properly will make sure you are well versed in local procedures before he signs you off – you can make it easier by reading up before you go. Flyer do a useful little book on flying in Florida, and there’s various other guides you can buy.

Flying out there is very straightforward. I’ve no experience of Irish airspace, but the radio is certainly more laid back than in the UK. ATC are very helpful; the flight following service is excellent, there are no landing fees and they are quite happy to let you into busy airports (I’ve done a parallel approach into Palm Beach next to an A320 – can you imagine that in the UK?).

If you’re still not comfortable after a few hours, you could always get an instructor to come up with you as safety pilot – you’ll probably end up doing much more challenging flying than you would on your own, and I’d bet it would still be cheaper than flying at home.

[Sensible]

Absolutely no worries, you only have to ask at the place where you are renting the aircraft from and you will find pilots falling over each other to be your safety pilot for free. In any eventyou will have a 1hour check out with an instructor as a minimum requirement and they won't set you loose if they think you are not safe.

Florida is a good choice for starters because the ATC is more relaxed there plus there is no high terrain and apart from thunderstorms and a little turbulence when it's hot no big problems.

One thing's for sure, you will enjoy the flying. Beware paying up front as always!

[kilobravo]

Thanks G SXTY

Landing parallel to an A 320? From my spotting days I would have spend more time looking at him than concentrating on my approach!!! thanks for the info, I'll go find that Flyer booklet.
Might be fun to find another PPL to go flying with when out there.
Will be doing it in the future after ATPL's but its best to prepare early I say. Cheers
Kb

[Fit.student]

hey there

I am actually training in florida, around the orlando region. I have never been into any Uk airspace or Irish, all i know is about the amercian one :)

Overall ATC is very helpful, depending on where you go and what time of the day. It was said before that you can fly into "busier" airports just like MCO , or PBI or even MIA, all of it is true. Even the parrallel approach into Palm beach next to the A320 :D
Even though you land on the small 9R and he goes onto the 10,000 foot rwy 9L ;)

It is great flying down here, weather is usually good compared to europe .. LoL , and no topographic features are of any danger execpt the big hotels !

Well I hope you will enjoy flying down here , if you need a safety pilot wou will be able to find plenty, most people are here to help not to rip you off :) , just need to know the good place.

cheers

christian

[birdlady]

Hi KB

I see that you've finally seen the light of day and decided to do hour buiding else where. GOOD ON YOU!!!!! As mentioned before dont rule out SA. Very nice place to fly....

Try landing with a Lear Jet next to you and a 727 behind you - with a terrible hangover and 15hrs TT. VERY INTERESTING!!!!!!

Ciao BL :ok: :ok:

[kilobravo]

Hi all,

Thanks a lot for those answers. Never thought of having a safety pilot and if I did, I would have assumed I needed to pay for the service. Come to think of it, I would love to be a safety pilot and go flying for free! No such luck here!?? Still it's good to know there would be someone willing to show me the lay of the land for a while. Still need to do my ATPL's and that's first on my list, flying abroad will have to wait for a bit, but like I said I like to be prepared so all advice from those more experienced is good. Thanks again.

Birdlady, do you work for the SA tourist board? Only joking! When are you coming back to damp EIRE? Did you get that grant sorted? Keep us posted.
Later folks.

[daw]

The only problem with flying in the US is that you are going to fall in love with it and then come back home and question why aviation can't be as carefree as the yanks have made it!

Lots of good advice given above. I have flown both in Florida and out of the LA basin. Done about 200 hours in total in US trips plus a quick fire 3 week PPL.

Some more tips for you:-

- always go for a flight following service. It is free, and it teaches you good habits as you will have to stick to headings, heights etc that you will pass to ATC. Much safer to getting advice on possible targets out there. Great for building the confidence talking to ATC and they will wherever possible try and hand you off as necessary to the next controller and normally your destination airport as well if it is towered which will make the arrival procedure so much easier. Usually for VFR aircraft arriving at towered controlled airports you are given pretty simple joins like report left base runway x etc.

- always get a weather briefing, again its FREE so why would you not. I generally ask for a standard brief. The phone number 0800 wxbrief is completely free and will work from anywhere in the states. The local club will answer any queries you have on using it.

- get a copy of the CPL syllabus off the CAA website and also the criteria that the examiners follow. Then use that to make yourself a plan so that the hour building you undertake is challenging and builds up your skill base. I did an IMC rating prior to my last trip to LA and spent 50 hours out there honing my VOR tracking/fixing, flying airways (well below the actual airway that is), timed turns, flying holds out in the desert and nailing my heights and general attitude flying etc.

- don't fall into the trap of using safety pilots "to often". Sure if you aren't all that confident after your checkout then by all means take an instructor for a couple of sorties but remember the whole purpose of hour building is to build up your experience and decision making ability. Having a fall guy beside you isn't going to help you at all and more than likely make you take steps backwards.

- have you considered LA? Personally I found Florida pretty boring after the first 50 hours. There are only so many lakes to fly over before you get bored silly. The LA basin is great with Big Bear, Grand Canyon, Vegas, San Deigo etc etc all good trips and certainly a lot more to see than Florida.

There is a book about flying in Florida, haven't read it though. Checkout Transair online.

Thats all I can think of for now. The private flying forum also has lots of information on flying in the US and various threads on places to see etc. Enjoy.

[birdlady]

Hi KB

Im not sure about the grant - still havent recived a definate yes or no just an ambigious answer. "We refund as per staff rules". WHat the hell does that mean??????? Its the company my dad works for so Im not surprised that they are reluctant to put their b**ls on the line. And it took 10 days to come up with that answer when I was asking what the rules were. Maybe I just didnt spell it out clearly. PLEASE GIVE ME MONEY NOW. I wonder what they would say to that.........And the really annoying thing is that I cant go to Eire untill I have the answer.

Oh well, the only thing I have to keep me going at the mo is this website as Im obsessed with flying and as I have no buckaroos I havent been flying in 4 months. BUMMEEERRRRRRRR!!!!!!!

Ciao for now
BL

:ok: :ok: :ok:

[kilobravo]

Hey BL

Me knows how you feel. No mon no fun. I haven't flown since mid summer myself. It's a bad way to do things but can't be helped for now. Why do you want to do it in Ireland, facilities are ok but very limited as I am sure your research has shown. Still the views are nice and as I said before it's very hassle free as I am sure the UK pilots who come over for a few days flying already know. I would prefer to train in a busier environment though as it is a lot more realistic from the get go.

Daw

Thanks for that, you sound like you've got your sh** together!!
I will consider any part of the states for flying of course, if and when I ever get there. I imagine that the difference in terrain on the west coast gives you a lot more to deal with, weather wise etc. Good luck with it all, sounds like you are on top of things though. Happy flying and tracking!!

KB

[birdlady]

Hi

Something I didnt add before - too bloddy busy blabbering on. I found if you go to a new airport to have a map of the airfield and to go over their joining procedures before you fly. Even if it means drawing silly little dotted lines for circuits. The AIP is brillant for this and will state anything thats different with that airfield. ie parachuting etc.

Ciao BL

[Capt. Manuvar]

Canada is also a very good place for hourbuilding. In the UK, even though you have a lot of uncontrolled airfields, you don't have many unmanned airfields. Flying into unmanned airfields for the first time is really a learning experience. You finally realise what overhead joins are for. You have the sole responsibility of determining wind direction, what altimeter setting to use, checking the runway condition. And this applies to both IFR and VFR.
You also become more weather savvy. In the UK many pilot's wx briefs consist of a quick glance at Met 214/5 and a couple of TAfs. In canada, there are many areas where forecast coverage is not great and go/no-go decisions require a bit of effort on the part of the pilot. You need more than a basic understanding of wx if you're going to fly in mountainous areas.
As has been mentioned above, flyng in INTL airports can be a bit unnerving at first. Its hard to explain the adrenalin rush when you're on a practice ILS approach with an A320 on you 6 O Clock and ATC is creaming at you to keep the speed up.
There is a lot you can learn in the US/Canada that you'll never learn in the UK, e.g flight plans/how to use the red knob.

[kilobravo]

Hi Bl

You're quite right about studying the airport before you go there. I used to draw the runways on my plog and draw all the different ways I may be asked to join, just so I could picture it before being asked to do it. Again, a small lack of confidence in a sense, not wanting to rely solely on quick working out in the cockpit when other things like talking/listening on the radio may come into play. Still it's a way of minimising the workload.

Cpt. Manuvar,

the small airfields around here, very often have nobody at the end of the radio, and it's true that finding the windsock from a 1000ft and figuring out landing direction is really good practice and it's quite true that the overhead join really makes sense then.
I find that assimilating all that is said on the radio at or near a busy airport or in busy airspace is tough when you are not exposed to it very often, and that is what to me, can be a bit daunting. Irish weather is as everyone knows not very predictable but am sure doesn't pause as many problems as real mountain flying. Funny enough, accurately interpreting weather briefs is also a weak point for me. I guess I am not yet comfortable with unknown or uncertain quantities, like weather and unforseen ATC changes, but I guess that will come with time and practice like everything else.

Cheers

KB

[ABO944]

Hi There

So many people seem to go to the States for their hours building ...... I decided to pop to Portugal where it is cheap, and the airspace is relatively quiet!

ATC is very good, fluent English is spoken - provided by Lisbon Military!

A small country, but plenty of airfields to visit ... doing an approach into Faro alongside the big boys is fun! Loads of MATZ and Danger areas .... all good practice!! Plenty of nav aids too!

If anyone wants more info, please contact me via email or pm me!!

P.s - You can hire a C152 for as little as £45 / hour - wet !!

[Smudger]

KiloBravo, I just wanted to say well done for asking such an honest question on such an open forum. I wonder how many budding aviators would have the courage to open their hearts to the aviation community as a whole as eagerly as you did! Good to see also that your question was taken so seriously by those who replied, you have been given a lot of good advice and information. Good job guys!

[kilobravo]

Hey Smudger

Thanks for that!!
I wonder sometimes if I am the only one with uncertainties when undergoing training as everyone around me in the club house seems to know all about everything!! Me on the other hand, can't remember for the 1000th time, how the electrical system works in a C152 and wonder how I'll ever figure the systems of an airbus A320? Why is it that my brain will only let me figure out the 1 in 60 on the ground in a quiet corner on my own, and not at 2500ft, when I have missed a rather large town with a cathedral, 10 railway tracks, a 4 lane motorway and a lake because I was looking the other way? Ahhh the pressure the pressure. Still when it goes according to plan its all very rewarding.....I think.

KB
Ps Am not that bad really......they did give me a licence after all, and I believe my examiner was notoriously hard to please!