Qantas to call crew bluff on 'sick-out'

[Wirraway]

Wed "The Australian"

Qantas to call crew bluff on 'sick-out'
Steve Creedy, Aviation writer
October 13, 2004

QANTAS has warned it will use doctors to test international flight attendants who call in ill during "sick-outs" designed to disrupt flights next month.

In the latest twist in an increasingly bitter dispute, an unofficial campaign is calling on long-haul flight attendants to take a sickie on November 17 to protest plans by the airline to send jobs overseas.

A Qantas plan to base 400 long-haul flight attendants in London has already brought increasing threats of strike action over the busy Christmas holidays.

The airline says it has received more than 200 applications from Australian crew wanting to work in London.

But relations with the international flight attendants union soured amid accusations that the airline is training more than 500 flight attendants and employing them on short-term contracts as strike-breakers.

Qantas chief financial officer Peter Gregg said yesterday the airline was aware of a "sick-out" rumour but said the airline found it extremely difficult to believe any of its staff would contemplate such an action.

"In the event that something like that did occur, Qantas, as it has in the past, would take all steps necessary to ensure that the interests of its customers, and the vast bulk of Qantas staff not participating in such action, were protected," he said.

Mr Gregg confirmed that his plan included the use of medical staff at its bases to ensure it could quickly prove that a flight attendant was genuinely sick.

The Flight Attendants Association of Australia said it was aware of the sickie call, which appeared to be gaining momentum, but denied being behind it.

FAAA international division secretary Michael Mijatov said a survey of members last week showed the distrust and anger that were fuelling the call.

Mr Mijatov said the survey showed 87 per cent of respondents had no, or minimal, trust in the company.

"We also asked whether they were prepared to take strike action ... and about 96 to 97 per cent said they were prepared to take strike action," he said.

The union is poised to start enterprise bargaining negotiations the week after next, but is prevented from taking industrial action until mid-December.

It also intends to lodge a dispute with the Australian Industrial Relations Commission over the use of the fixed-term flight attendants.

The carrier argues that no jobs would be lost, existing crew were being given priority in filling the London positions and the move would save $18million annually.

Qantas chief executive Geoff Dixon told staff in a memo yesterday that the company had made significant concessions in negotiations with the FAAA.

These included an offer to reinstate a cap on overseas-based crew at a level that would allow the London base to proceed and a guarantee no redundancies would result from operating or opening overseas bases.

Mr Dixon described the strike-breaker claims as emotive, but admitted the airline had a longstanding policy of maintaining contingency plans against "business threats".

"The bottom line is we have to guarantee that our customers' travel plans are not disrupted and that our customers are not lost to competitors," he said.

============================================

[bekolblockage]

Close, but no cigar. Try finding a Doctor who will have the guts to diagnose that you are NOT sick and take the risk of something subsequently going wrong. Ain't gunna happen.

[quim]

Absolutely corrrect, bek. Try getting our one our two doctors to that many FA's as well. Logistically impossible. What a lame threat. Go for it guys and gals. Hope you win.

[Chief Chook]

"Try finding a Doctor who will have the guts to diagnose that you are NOT sick and take the risk of something subsequently" getting sued for malpractice.

Headaches, fatigue, vomiting and diahorrea (drink some hot water, or eat some garlic to get the tummy rumbling), sprained ankle, toothache, earache.
I'm feeling sick just writing this.

[VVS Laxman]

A few years back we had the same pressure applied to us; work brought in a DAME and it was compulsory to see her for absences of more than 1 day.

Result: Sick leave increased substantially as the DAME was more aware of the workplace and its limitations; individuals obtained ergonomic chairs etc. for personal use only… It was great. Fatigue was a major factor with our rosters rotating the way they do.

This is just a pressure point, one that in the cold light of day will not stand up.

[MoFo]

Since when was being examined by a company doctor a requirement to "go sick".

An individual does not turn up for work if they are medically unfit. If they wish to be paid for sick leave they supply a medical confirmation in writing from their own doctor. If they don't supply such they are not paid. Big deal.There is no requirement to submit to an examination by anyone other than the doctor you choose. There are privacy laws for Australian citizens.

This is probably bluff from QF, who would find themselves in court faster than they could blink if they tried that crap.

[Uncommon Sense]

How much did it cost Cathay when they tried to play hardball over the 'alleged' sick-out?

What other options are left when the conditions of the workforce are eroded and the Industrial Relations laws are so draconian to not allow any form of action? (And still a lot more to come!)


4thTerm (http://fourthtermwatch.********.com/)

[Howard Hughes]

Lower back pain's always a good one!!

Totally undetectable and mostly untreatable by doctors.

Bend over touch knees and :ugh:....

Cheers, HH.
:ok:

[Kaptin M]

Qantas to call crew bluff on 'sick-out' Shouldn't that headline be:
"QANTAS introduce fear and intimidation campaign against their staff."

November 17th.....hmmm, NOT a good day to plan a flight with the Roo by the look of things.

[Omark44]

Worked for a company once where 'sickness' was a growing problem, unannounced the company would send the company doctor around to the 'sick' person's residence, often to find them on the tennis court/on the beach/in the bar etc. which didn't help the cause!

Another time when a doctor visited he was convinced the 'patient' was bluffing but went through the full process, BP, pulse, temperature etc. scratched his head, tut tutted a bit, said it could be highly infectious and despite protests slung the 'patient' into the local isolation ward for three days, awaiting the results of a blood test! A doctor may be reluctant to pronounce you fit if you are claiming to be sick but there is more than one way to skin a cat!

Just beware, for every trick you pull they will have one up their sleeve too.

[str]

QF also seem to be forgetting an EBA which states doctors certificates are only required if sickness lasts for 3 or more days.


Up yours Geoff.

[Chardy]

Shouldn't that headline be: QANTAS introduce fear and intimidation against their staff

Then why don't the gals and lads go on stress leave. No Doctor can knock that back, it's a perfectly legitimate reason for illness, and if the rumours are true then surely the whole reason this purported action is taking place is because the lassies and laddies ARE stressed :ok:

[Chief Chook]

As long as QF are subjecting ALL the rest of the staff to medical checks when they call in sick, then they couldn't be accused of "fear and intimidation", persecution or discriminatory employer tactics, could they?

[U2]

Stay awake, drink lots of coffee or drink lots of coke prior to shift. It is illegal for either an operator or a employee to work while fatigued. Call it stress, barking dog next door...pms...something in the water....or I like this one.....noise pollution from jet aircraft keeping you awake.

Fatigue is hard to diagnose and is completely subjective to the individual.

U2

[fordran]

Nice story Mr Dixon

Another time when a doctor visited he was convinced the 'patient' was bluffing but went through the full process, BP, pulse, temperature etc. scratched his head, tut tutted a bit, said it could be highly infectious and despite protests slung the 'patient' into the local isolation ward for three days, awaiting the results of a blood test!

If I was sick and some doctor I didn't know rocked up to my house he would only hear two words and you can take a guess what they might be. Good luck sick staffies, the LAMEs are watching with interest.:ok:

[bekolblockage]

VVS Laxman

I think we must have once had the same caring sharing employer. I recall the older guys going in for a single day off and ending up with a week. Poetic justice.
I also recall they did a complete one eighty with our sick leave entitlements- no uncertificated sick leave to unlimited sick leave!

[Chief Chook]

Crew meals make me sick - sometimes.
But if I don't have nothing to eat, I get sick too.
Turbulence sometimes makes me sick.......and just the thought of GOD trying to fcuk us over makes me sick.

Usually it happens when I'm away from the major bases, because I haven't got anyone to talk to.

The actions of the QF F/A's are as a direct result of QF management's aggressive attacks.

QF F/A's have - until now - worked harmoniously with the customers and previous QANTAS management.

That THIS managemnent seeks a CONFRONTATION - rather than a NEGOTIATION - to the detriment of our loyal customers, is beyond us, your willing workers.

There are MANY equally - or even better qualified managers,willing to step in NOW, to achieve an immediate, satisfactory end to what will probably be a costly, prolonged, and expensive, festering industrial dispute, beacause of the intransigence of the entrenched, self-interested, bonus-orientated directors.

In the interests of ALL shareholders and staff, an IMMEDIATE resolution has to be seen as the BEST result for ALL of us.
A protracted dispute is costly, and only helps inflate the egoes of those who seek public exposure.

[Omark44]

Better take a close look at your contract Fordran, quite a lot will say that you must submit yourself to an examination by a company doctor if required by the company. So, as long as he properly identifies himself................................?

The case I quoted definitely did happen though in this case it was an 'overseas' contract. Somewhere in all the initial paperwork there is often a question along the lines, "Do you agree to be examined by a company doctor if called upon to do so?" In all the enthusiasm for the new job it quickly gets forgotten.

As I said, be careful out there, they will have tricks up their sleeves to deal with malingerers.

[MoFo]

There are privacy laws in Australia. There is also a little thing about doctor - patient confidentiality, and the intellectual property rights of the doctor.

If the company want THEIR doctor to examine you, simply decline the offer. We do not live in a police state no matter what Qantas think. What can they do about it? Sack you? Check the unfair dismissal laws also. However there are no laws about bluffing gullible employees.

[Omark44]

Well, just so long as you can be 100% certain that at no time, not on the initial application form, any of the day of induction paperwork or within the contract you accepted that you haven't ever agreed to be examined by a company doctor, if asked by the company, you don't have a problem.

I'm not taking sides, just offering a small word of caution. Once a job is lost it is lost.

[Sunfish]

A suggestion. If you really are going to go ahead with this, you had better put yourself out of the reach of the company doctor.

I would expect there is nothing to say that you must be "in range" if crook, or in constant communication either. In other words, after you call in sick, go home to mum or whatever and remain incommunicado untill your condition improves:ok:

[jakethemuss]

15 October 2004

Attention all Qantas Long Haul Flight Attendants
SUPPORT FROM FAAA REGIONAL/DOMESTIC DIVISION
I wish to thank the leadership and the membership of the FAAA Domestic/Regional Division for their support in relation to any possible industrial action that we may take in support of our EBA claims.

Reprinted below is an email issued by our Domestic/Regional colleagues.

Attention: All Eastern/Sunstate and Jetstar Flight Attendants

Fixed Term Contracts - Long Haul Division
We have received many calls from members seeking advice on the recent recruitment by Qantas for Fixed Term Contracts in the Long Haul Division.

In particular, members have sought clarification that should they accept a position, are they being used as strike breakers in the event of any industrial action that Long Haul flight attendants may take at the end of the year.

The Association is not in a position to indicate one way or another as to why fixed term contracts are available. In fact it is a matter for each individual to make up their own minds in accepting or rejecting this limited employment with Qantas.

However, in making your decision you need to take all factors into consideration including the timing of any such offer and why you are good enough for fixed term in Long Haul but did not rate an offer for London .

What we can say to those who are concerned about any industrial action is our FAAA policy is members should refrain from undertaking any work or duty that lies within the province of another union's industrial action. Members should also note that the right of our Long Haul colleagues, in the event that they decide to take industrial action in pursuit of their legitimate EBA claims should be recognised, respected and have your full support.

This newsletter was written and authorised by
Michael Mijatov , Divisional Secretary - International

[lame1]

QF LAMES are about to start EB talks very soon,id suggest all you guys need to put every defect you see in the Cabin Log /Techlog and leave the rest to us.If Good old GD thinks a 66% payrise is fine for himself then i say LOOK out .Its about time we get together,the days of taking him on one at a time are over.Many years ago many of the countries around Israel wanted to blew ,instead of joining forces and belting them,each country wanted to look big and be the winner.History shows they got the **** kicked out of them.
I know that probably wasnt the best analogy but im just proving the unity equals strenght.If GD wants a fight let him take us ALL on.
QF LAMES have had enough.

[U2]

Remember back to 89'

Don't let history repeat it self, take LAME1 advise.

The main difference between 04 and 89 is that QF won't get government support/bailout. The shareholders will quickly sharpen their daggers.

Remember back to 2000

1 The Howard government bailed out 'National textiles" employees, but not the company (PM brother worked there)

2 Ansett fell over, PM waves Ansett good bye, but imposes a tax on QANTAS passengers to keep 17,000 angry citzens happy...and gets re-elected.

2004- If GD wants to get the PM's support , he had better think again.

GD is most certaintly bluffing, it is the FAAA who hold the trump card.

However, the QF F/A had better start saving their dollars as GD will not go down without a fight. I'm sure he'll use whatever dirty tactics he can muster to postpone the strike till the new year.

Lastly, this is purely a hugh guess...but I wonder if BA selling it's share in QF had anything to do with the comming strike?

I hope the engineers keep no more than 3 steps behind the F/A.


U2

[fordran]

Qf management statement -

"Omark44
Over 150 posts! About time I clicked here and ordered a Personal Title.
posted 15th October 2004 02:12
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Better take a close look at your contract Fordran, quite a lot will say that you must submit yourself to an examination by a company doctor if required by the company. So, as long as he properly identifies himself................................?"




Now just pretend you are a Qantas manager (shouldn't be hard) and you come to my house with a doctor. You knock on the door and nobody answers. End of game.

Try making an appointment. I will see you tomorrow. November 18, feeling much better now. Aircraft grounded, point made.

[Zapatas Blood]

The cost savings QF stand to make by ridding the system of 1950's work practices will far outweigh the costs involved in a protracted dispute.

The Howard Government will not give 2 hoots about QF flighties. GD and JH will be lunching regularly to ensure both teams are fully prepped for the PR battle. The Howard Mantra of de-unionising staff in Oz making the workforce more "flexible" will continue.

[Omark44]

But you couldn't be more wrong if you tried, I'm not anybody's management, just someone who has been in the industry a long, long time, seen lots of disputes and now passing on a word of caution about tactics. What i'm saying is make sure you, (the FAs), are watertight, that's all.

Someone playing devil's advocate can, at times, be a help rather than a hinderence in aiding people to come to objective conclusions when they are involved in highly emotive issues. As an engineer you can just about pick your job, if you are prepared to travel, jobs being advertised worldwide regularly, FAs don't always have the same amount of choice.

[robroy]

If you were the pic, of a qf rat, would you depart a terminal, knowing full well that the cabin was crewed by, under trained, underexperienced , unprofessional sc&bs.

We will soon see the MF, or the LMF of the so called pic's of the "they never crash , airline

"cheers

robroy

[U2]

Zapatas Blood

...are you suggesting that this is all part of the plan to burn out the dead wood at QF. Really, I'm curious, because that would turn the strike on its head. Does QF managment want cost cuts or jobs?
Or possibly both?

I guess the costs involved in a short term dispute, would be peanuts compared to the benefits of organisational culling! Although the product will be effected.

..but now is the time of LC air transport and cost accountablitiy. The travelling public prefer to pay for a product (IE transport from a to b) rather than for a premium service.

So is QF mainline going to be following suit with the LCC model, or are they just scaling back on the premium model. So now we will have a sort of a watered down premium carrier??

U2

[itchybum]

Sorry robroy. the average punter sees hosties as waitresses of the skies, not much to do with safety. Why? Because on the average flight, nothing goes wrong and all they do is close the doors, stand around pointing at life-jackets (on video now) and seve food.

You over-estimate the degree to which people care about issues like this.

As long as they still get their coke with ice and a packet of peanuts, plus a movie, they won't care whether the hosties have done a 2 hour safety course or the standard 2 weeks.

[Wirraway]

Mon "Melbourne Age"

Qantas training 'strike breakers'
By Scott Rochfort
October 18, 2004

Qantas has quietly hired 350 flight attendants on three-month fixed contracts in an apparent move to thwart a threatened Christmas strike by its 4000 long-haul cabin crew over plans to base more jobs overseas.

Outfitted with black pants and red polo tops, instead of the usual flight attendant uniform, the new intake of Qantas attendants are being trained in how to operate a 747 aircraft.

In what is shaping up to be one of the most high-profile industrial disputes since the 1998 waterfront strike, there are claims the fixed-termers are being asked to use code-word destinations (such as "Bronte") when picked up by unmarked Qantas buses for their training sessions at the airline's Sydney base at Mascot.

The Flight Attendants Association is already calling the trainees "strike-breakers" - and is taking Qantas to the Federal Industrial Relations Commission this morning over the matter.

"What has Qantas got to hide and what are they ashamed of that they have to go to these extraordinary lengths to mask what they are doing?" the international head of the FAAA, Michael Mijatov, said yesterday.

But Qantas denies there is any secrecy, saying it has told the FAAA how many people it is training and given union officials free access to talk to fixed-term staff, some of whom have joined the union.

"How can there be any secrecy when we've told the union about the training?" Qantas spokesman Michael Sharp asked.

With the FAAA warning it could take industrial action over Qantas' plans to base hundreds of cabin crew overseas, Qantas is believed to be training more of its non-flying and management staff on how to work aboard long-haul aircraft.

Qantas says the extra staff will help it get through the peak Christmas period, but the FAAA says the airline plans to use the fixed-termers as strike breakers. (A recent union survey found that 96 per cent of its Qantas members were willing to strike.)

The FAAA says Qantas has offered many of the contract positions to people who previously had their applications to become flight attendants rejected.

Meanwhile, hundreds of Qantas customers have unknowingly had their summer travel bookings altered after the airline revised its flight schedule.

Despite accepting payment for the advertised flight bookings, the airline cancelled and rescheduled a host of summer flights late last week, in changes that are believed to affect a high proportion of passengers over the peak summer period.

Most changes will be minor delays. However, some flights have been cancelled.

The cancellations mean passengers have been redirected onto other flights, with discrepancies of more than an hour from the original bookings in some cases.

Qantas yesterday maintained that there had been no deliberate or significant overhaul of the summer schedule.

=============================================

[itchybum]

Notice how the journo says "Qantas has quietly hired 350 flight attendants ...in an apparent move to thwart a.....strike" Careful wording avoids responsibility but still leaves the reader/moron convinced Qantas has hired scabs specifically for the purpose.

Instructions direct from the editor and you-know-who above him. Freedom of the press, my fat hairy white pilot's @rse. As in politics, the media are used to manipulate public opinion on this issue.

[ferris]

I think QF are making a huge mistake. Public opinion will definately play a huge role in this one, and if the FAAA play their cards right, QF stands to look very Dickensian.
Many people in many industries are sick of working harder for less and less, so that people like Dixon can make their $6.5 million pa. And worse, the 'spirit of Australia' is sending more jobs overseas. Although they are doing a pretty good pr job so far, that is what the heart of the matter is; QF sending oz jobs o/s.

Typically, they've tried to save a few bucks by putting different (read cheaper) outfits on those unwitting youngsters who will be the scabs. Very clever. I wonder how many managers would have the balls to put on an identifying outfit and go out to scab? 3 month contracts:rolleyes: Used and discarded. "The spirit of Australia'. Yeah, right.

[Dexter]

i got a better idear.
put dixon on a 3 month contract an if he stuffs up on this wone replaice im.

[Sunfish]

Actually I have some sympathy with Dixon in his current role, having done the job of working for a Board of Directors as CEO myself.

It sounds like its a doddle but it isn't, anymore than its a doddle driving a large aircraft. You are actually working during all your waking hours. There is no one you can turn to, the buck stops with you.

The Board has one job - to watch you and decide if they like where you are taking the company. If they decide they don't like what you are doing, then you are out, instantly. Furthermore, you stuff up publicly you will never work again. Its a huge personal risk you are taking. Put a foot wrong and you are out.

The salary is a reflection of what you are hopefully creating for the shareholders - wealth. You are expected to devote yourself full time to this purpose and nothing else.

Most CEO's take the view that if I'm supposed to use my talents to produce millions of dollars for shareholders, then some of it had better rub off on me too.

Slang off if you like, but it isn't as easy as it looks.

[socks]

Where do I sign, I'll screw you for a million dollars, what manager wouldn't?

What lures union leaders to sell out their brothers in arms and become company patsies?

It has to be $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ the big winner, because it can't be morals or ethics or anything noble like that.

The question I want answered is who is going to sell us out this time, because with Oldmeadow behind the scenes, their eye would be on someone right now.

[The_Cutest_of_Borg]

No-one says it is easy, I think most of us tire of the double standards evident regarding pay, particularly when the airline is doing well.

Also the lies and spin get tiresome as well.

[Wirraway]

crikey.com.au

It's on - Qantas vs the unions
By aviation correspondent Pemberton Strong

We told you first folks. It looks like the great showdown of 2004 between Qantas staff and management is now set to happen.
18 October 2004

Qantas' current advertising campaign for its domestic services say there's 'more than a seat' to the business. There certainly is and that is what's upsetting a lot of travelers. The seats are fine. It’s the way Qantas treats passengers into and out of the seats that’s upsetting more and more people.

From the oil price rise levies that have a hint of gouging, to planes delayed, late or cancelled, poor service on the ground, delays at counters, inadequate schedules with services being consolidated at short notice to drive up yields (profits), it's making a bit of a mockery of the Qantas approach to selling itself.

It’s as though the problems are not there.

Then there’s the sour and unhappy staff, no doubt all of whom know of the attempts by the airline to build a strike-breaking force that Crikey has been talking about for more than a month and which finally hit the news today.

Here's our story of September 22. Now Qantas and the Flight attendants union have been told to talk on the issue, as this SMH story says today.

That oil price surcharge drew comments from investment bank, ABN Amro that the price hike was not needed. That naturally challenged the word and wisdom of the airline and chief financial officer Peter Gregg. Here's his defence from Sunday.

All in all tough times for the Roo after its best ever year and the blizzard of reports from the board and CEO Geoff Dixon on the uneveness of playing fields here and overseas.

Of course, no word from chairman 'Dame' Margaret Jackson and CEO Geoff Dixon on attempts to tilt the playing field against its flight attendants ahead of a long-mooted contract brawl later this year.

But with the annual meeting in Brisbane on Thursday the relationship between management and its unions has obviously got the board and chairman alert and alarmed as you can see from this story.

The unions and those stroppy employees are obviously not playing by the rules, the rules the board set. How dare they! And remember the 'Dame' is part of the Business Council of Australia set that wants to see fewer and more restrictive annual meetings.

The 'mushroom club' is headed by Hugh Morgan, the BCA President. Again remember his time at WMC when shareholders were deprived of the chance to vote or consider an 'offer' of more than $10 a share from Alcoa of the US.

Hugh and the 'Dame' obviously don't trust shareholders, especially those stroppy trade unionists, or those better performing industry funds that take corporate governance and shareholder rights very seriously, unlike many of the bigger private enterprise groups.

Union plans for a campaign of planned sickies and other passive resistance were revealed in the Murdoch press last week, drawing a tough-minded response from Roo management as you can see here.

But the court action today, while outlining the plans by Qantas to react to any breakdown of the EBA later this year, has not highlighted the intransigence of Dixon and his management to the union worries about the new London base.

With no agreement so far between Qantas and the Australian Services Union, negotiations for EBA VII have come to a grinding halt. Qantas have given nothing other than maternity/paternity leave which is only legislation anyway so it doesn't cost Qantas anything.

With the AGM due in Brisbane on October 21, it will be interesting to see what shareholders think of the board members, and executives wanting to have the resolution passed that will see them receive higher pay and news bonuses and incentives (especially Dixon and Gregg). The proposed increase in maximum fees for non-executive directors from $1.5 million to $2.5 million looks excessive in the current circumstances and some institutions have indicated they will be voting against it.

On the other hand, the board and management have told staff that 3% pay rise is all they can afford in these troubled times of the airlines. But the company still continues to grow and expand and spend. It will be interesting to see what "Qantas ASU staff" will do if the resolution is passed, and the EBA is still not settled.

So, many questions remain unanswered. Reports from inside the airline say staff feel forgotten and unappreciated by management.
There's some saying the they feel that the spirit of Qantas has abandoned them, even though they are expected to deliver the best in
customer service at all levels at all times.

The treatment of staff by senior management is hypocritical and the opposite to what they expect from their staff. Money has now become a big issue.

==========================================
ABC News Online
Monday, October 18, 2004. 6:09pm (AEST)

Qantas flight attendant talks deadlocked
There has been no progress in talks with Qantas over the hiring of flight attendants on short-term contracts, the Flight Attendants Association says.

The talks were ordered by the Industrial Relations Commission (IRC) and the association's Michael Mijatov says the union will seek another hearing.

He says Qantas is using the workers for its own gain.

"They're desperate to get jobs these people, and what they [Qantas] intend to do is actually terminate their employment and give it to people overseas," he said.

"I mean if Qantas is serious they should come out now and say that they'll give these people full-time work."

The Flight Attendants Association claims 300 new flight attendants employed recently are being trained to thwart any strike action over the Christmas period.

The airline denies the workers are being secretly trained as strike breakers.

Qantas executive general manager John Borghetti has rejected the Commissioner's description of the airline's dealings with the union as brief and unhelpful.

"Well, I think one has to look at the totality of the discussions that have been going on between us and the union," he said.

"There hasn't just been one letter, there have been numerous discussions, correspondence over a variety of issues and certainly it wasn't our intention to not continue those discussions.

"It was, in fact, the union that walked away and brought them to an end."

===========================================

[U2]

Are many of the regional airline F/A part of the strike? What would they think if management reduced service on the milk runs to increase capacity on the trunk route during the strike? They would then become strike breakers themselves!

What do the pilots think about this? Do they support the F/A or would they rather see them settle for less?

[surfside6]

Pilots have problems of their own...apathy,division and capitulation in previous EBA`s.The plight of Cabin Crew at this time is the least of their concerns...unfortunately.

[Chief Chook]

Interviews were held in South Brisbane for these positions.
One of the successful soon to be strikebreakers is an ex-Ansett 40-something cabin attendant who is ABSOLUTELY delighted that she'll be able to pick up some extra money over the Christmas period.
They have been told that they will paid, regardless of whether they're used or not.

[Wirraway]

Tues "The Australian"

Qantas admits strikebreaking plan
By Steve Creedy
October 19, 2004

QANTAS officials finally admitted yesterday that 350 flight attendants employed on three-month contracts would be asked to fly in place of permanent staff if there was a strike over Christmas.

Officials moved beyond previously circumspect references to "contingency plans" amid claims by the Flight Attendants Association of Australia that the airline was creating a "Dad's Army" of poorly trained strikebreakers.

Qantas Airlines executive general manager John Borghetti said the primary reason for employing the short-term flight attendants was to cover increased flying, which included new services to China, Europe and the US.

"However, if you're asking me the question - are these people going to fly if the FAAA takes industrial action, are we going to ask them to do that? - the answer is yes," he said.

The FAAA is shaping up for the Christmas stoush as it prepares to start negotiating a new enterprise bargaining agreement and fights a Qantas plan to base 400 flight attendants in London.

The Australian Industrial Relations Commission will hear union complaints today about secrecy and lack of access to the short-term employees. The commission sent the parties away for face-to-face talks after a short hearing yesterday morning at which the union sought unsuccessfully to get a copy of the short-term contracts.

Mr Borghetti said there was "absolutely no secrecy". "We've informed the union that we're doing it and we've offered them access to talk to the groups."

He also rejected union claims the new staff were inadequately trained.

FAAA international division secretary Michael Mijatov said the flight attendants were receiving 11 days' training instead of six weeks.

But Mr Borghetti said the training was shorter because crew were being trained on only one aircraft type, the Boeing 747, instead of a range of aircraft. He said the training had been approved by the Civil Aviation Safety Authority.

==========================================

[Kaptin M]

Delightful!!

What sort of people are these350 flight attendants employed on three-month contractswho are being used for ONE reason, and ONE reason alone - to try to stop the existing PERMANENT QF employees from exercising their right to strike, to try to protect themselves.

There can only be ONE word to describe each of those 350.

Shame on you!

[Zapatas Blood]

Shame on these people willing to accept work in order to put food on the table. They should kindly sit and go hungry in order for the long haul FA's to continue living in the past.

U2 - you ask "Does QF managment want cost cuts or jobs?"

I would suggest both but in reverse order. Replacing current entrenched attitudes (sense of entitlement) with people willing to look at alternatives is most important. Obviously this will also provide an opportunity to offer more realistic pay and conditions. As a share holder in Qantas I would expect nothing less of Dixon.

PPruners often refer to Qantas being hugely profitable as justification for industrial action - "I want a slice of the pie". Were these same people offering wage cuts back when Qantas was losing money hand over fist for years on end. I doubt it.

[Gnadenburg]

Zap

Melodramatic aren't we?

I would suggest there will not be a single, starving strike breaker. That went out with the industrial revolution. There will be short term and short sighted opportunity for some; an improvement from their current conditions or the "dream" of working as a F/A.

I just bought four tickets with a QF competitor-can't risk flying with QF during that period. Not good for shareholders!

Then again, QF long haul F/A's bloody hopeless reference in-flight service. But the loss of their jobs to foreigners and deterioration of conditions, will have flow on ramifications for all in the industry; except pilots, who do the above with the smallest of encouragement.

[Three Bars]

I think that you are missing the principle here Zaptas.

Unbfortunately, thanks to current IR legislation, the government has everyone convinced that a job these days is a privelege and not an entitlement. Also, the use of terminology like "global marketplace" makes us think that it is okay for one group of workers to undercut another group - because, "hey, they are dinosaurs who think that they should be paid a fortune to do this job. They were overpaid prima donnas."

Declining union membership rates allows employers to bargain groups off against each other and drive real wages lower and lower. And who benefits from this? The managers, CEOs and executives generally, becuase then they will make huge windfalls through performance bonuses. How do you react Zaptas, to Dixon and the QF boards' grab for millions of dollars while they cry poor to the groups who are negotiating EBAs?! Do you think that this situation is a moral one and that they are any more worthy of a large payrise than the workers who have eanred that profit for them?

We must draw a line in the sand or wages will continue to fall so that executives salaries can continue to rise. Look at what has happened to pilot rates of pay for Jetstar/VB versus Qantas mainline. If QF management had their way, we would all be on Jetstar rates and they are obviously embarking on a long-planned campaign (Jetconnect, Jetstar, Jetstar Asia) to achieve this. The FAAA sitautioin is but the latest way of driving down real wages further.

No, Zaptas, nobody should have to starve because they can't find a job. Neither should anybody's rate of pay be reduced at a time when the company has made record profits. In this country we must STOP being envious of someone ele's conditions and hope to see them "brought down a peg or two - serve em right!"

By the way Zaptas, Qf has always returned a profit since I joined nine years ago, and I am sure that the payrises that I have earned have barely kept up with CPI. Under the next EBA, I am sure that this won't change - how about Dixon?

Also, the SIA pilots took a paycut duirng the SARS epidemic and have been trying to get back to where they were ever since - even though the airline was very quickly back into profit.

[Kaptin M]

They (the strikebreakers = scabs) should kindly sit and go hungry in order for the long haul FA's to continue living in the past. Interesting "theory" Zapatas Blood, that you are in fact condoning one goup of workers (the scab labour) stealing another legitimate worker's job, by indicating that if they don't scab they (and their families, presumably) will starve.
This is the start of the breakdown of an ordered, civilised society as we know it - decreeing that people with less (than others) are JUSTIFIED in taking from those who have more.

And precisely WHO is inspiring the scabs??

None other than those who have already screwed the backbone of the workers for as much as they can, so that they can greedily add even MORE to their multi-million dollar salaries and bonuses.

The "350 flight attendants employed on three-month contracts" are nothing more than cannon fodder, that will allow the pigs to get their snouts further into the trough at the expense of EVERYONE!

[socks]

I wonder if they have started training pilots, LAME's, bagggage handlers and checking staff as well. Because what happens in December will ultimately effect all staff.

Now is the time that we all take a stand, return to the roots of the once true UNION movement, one in all in.

When they start using scab labour the a/c doesn't move.

The first response should be the Engineers or Pilots refusing to move while scabs are on board. The pilot could use any number of reasons to stay on chocks, ie. the threat of a disturbance on board his a/c created by disgruntled staff uncomfortable with use of scabs.
The Engineers also have the ability to delay the a/c's departure, as they are also negotiating their EBA at this time any disturbance they cause would be encouraged or even co-ordinated with ????????
The loaders are renouned for calling the odd stop work meeting at peak times and when they are finally ordered back to work a different reason is used next time.

I know companies plan for all contingencies, it's like going to War, but just sometimes the mighty fall with an arrow to the heal.

[gaunty]

Hi Kaptin

Howzitgoin. :ok:

With capitalism we are in a cleft stick ay least the way it is currently practised.

Perhaps this is the direction we should be going. An interesting discussion here

Food for thought, but you gotta work for it. :uhoh: (http://www.parecon.org/)

[Orville]

Socks,

Are you suggesting we storm the walls of Troy and bring down an empire, because Archilles was on the side attacking the walls, or are you suggesting that the combined union movement is the interlocking walls of Troy and Archilles is really the likes of Oldmeadow and we should be attacking their weakest link. Bring down their hero and the rest will run and hide.

Or is it, that they have already planted their Trojan horse within our ranks waiting for the right time to strike.

I think a sell out by one from within is the most likely outcome.

[Gnadenburg]

Orville

Not another Hollywood version of Homer's The Iliad?

Having myself, stood before the Trojan Plain, on a clear horizon and just beyond, the glory of ANZAC!

Charge guys and girls of QANTAS. You are the spirit of Australia.:8

[itchybum]

Good grief............ :rolleyes:

[captainrats]

Cabin crew forum...Qantas LHR base....P.27 Mach2male has made an informative post regarding what has been surrendered during tough times.Provides a broader perspective for those like Zapatas Blood....Who incidentally will not accept private messages or E-mails

[lame1]

As i have stated previously.The LAMES are FULLY behind you all.All you have to do is put every defect you can find in the CABIN and TECHLOG.We will do the rest i assure you.

[jb_flyer]

Reading some of the "scab" first hand reports about their training, and having been to one of the interviews myself, I can vouch that most have NO idea whatsoever about the way in which they are going to be used. At the interviews, we were told that it would be an 11 month contract, because "Qantas has just posted record profits, and they must be opening new routes up, and need staff to cover the increase in flying"

Now the fixed termers are going through training, sworn to secrecy, and only find out something is suss when they go to the Q-store to be issued uniforms, to find a nice pair of King Gee pants and a polo top (Some might say an improvement over the current one :) )

I think it is premature to call these people scabs just yet... as they have not yet been used to break industrial action. Some in fact have joined the FAAA.

The only way I knew about the plans was through reading here, and on other news sites, and trying to put 1 and 1 together. I do know however that some are rejecting the job offer since finding out the details (3 month strikebreaker job) I for one will not be used as a scab.

So although I agree with the fact it is terrible what Qantas are doing to these young impressionable (desperate) people, it is a little early to call a Scab.

JB

[Wirraway]

"Sydney Morning Herald"
Tuesday, October 19, 2004. 7:43pm (AEST)

Qantas accused of safety training shortcuts

Qantas has been accused of skimping on emergency procedures training for new cabin crews it is training for work during the Christmas period.

The Flight Attendants Association has supplied documents to the Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA) which included notes from trainees showing they have not been trained in the company's bomb action plan.

Another document, an e-mail apparently sent by the airline's senior instructor for emergency procedures, Robert Ford, expresses "serious concern" about the way contingency staff are being "bulldozed" through the flight attendant training program.

"I'm seriously concerned at the way the contingency students are being bulldozed through. It seems to me the company is only interested in numbers not quality," the e-mail said.

The union also says that the trainees have received only minimal security and hijack training and are not confident in emergency procedures.

Flight Attendants Association secretary Michael Mijatov says CASA must intervene.

"Qantas has been insisting when we raise these issues, that CASA is aware of what's happening," he said.

"I would suggest that CASA and its senior officials need to go back to Qantas and have a real good look at what's happening in light of this document that's been leaked tonight."

CASA says it is satisfied that the training Qantas is giving is appropriate.

A CASA spokesman says the shorter courses are justified because they are being done purely for cabin safety on the 747 fleet, not for the 767 or Airbus aircraft, and do not include cabin service training in handling food and beverages.

The spokesman says CASA has checked the training but if the union presents other details, the authority will double-check.

Qantas spokesman Michael Sharp says the airline rejects any suggestion that its training procedures are inadequate.

"The emergency procedures training for fixed-term cabin crew that Qantas is delivering is the same as the normal Qantas training and is in accordance with CASA approved courses," he said.

"CASA actually audited this training just last week and raised absolutely no issues following this audit."

===========================================

[fordran]

Ok O-Mark I give you the benefit of doubt. I tend not to trust those that play "devils advocate". Bad experiences in the past.

[Butterfield8]

When I go to work I am confident that the crew I work with are all current with their safety procedures.If there is someone who is relatively new we all keep an eye out.However if the majority of the crew have been ushered though a training course as described in the above article....well thats an entirely different story.If CASA is party to this then the ATSB needs to get involved.
It takes anyone a reasonable amount of time to become comfortable with a new occupation.Mix this with Jetlag,Stress from being new and the associated fatigue....you have an extremely dangerous cocktail.This concerns me greatly.Safety is why you have Cabin Crew.Compromise that and you should not be in the airline business.I intend to express my concerns to CASA the ATSB and John Anderson.
Others who are equally concerned should do the same!!

[Kaptin M]

Yeah, nice explanation Butterfield.
But let's cut to the chase :ok:
Australians value a sense of "Fair Play".
Scabs violate that intrinsic Oz value.

QANTASCABincrew - when identified as such - will be the subject of public ridicule and accusations of un-Australian behaviour.

I think Dixon - probably in conjunction with that IR Quack, Oldmeadow - has cooked himself up a little stew that could well find HIM in the cooking pot!

[Zapatas Blood]

My comments have drawn fire which is totally expected. They were partly the devils advocate but mostly reflect what I see as happening in the airline industry and the market place in general as apposed to what I (as an employee) would LIKE to see happening in the marketplace. (I will also admit they were partly the result of 2 recent longhaul flights where the cabin crew proved themselves to be totally indifferent to customers. Maybe I was unlucky)

Ferris, public opinion will play a huge roll in this - most people I speak to comment on the poor service given by Qantas longhaul (don't know about shorthaul) and where I live, passengers will go to the ends of the earth to travel Singapore or Cathay to/from europe instead of Qantas. Very little support will come from the public when they learn how much money some longhaulers are paid.

3 bars - "How do you react Zaptas, to Dixon and the QF boards' grab for millions of dollars while they cry poor to the groups who are negotiating EBAs?! Do you think that this situation is a moral one and that they are any more worthy of a large payrise than the workers who have earned that profit for them"
Firstly, they are separate issues. Are we arguing about workplace reform (I am) or CEO Bonuses (you are). Do i think the situation is moral - no, its business. If morals were involved there would be no jobs. I ask you - would you like the responsibility for running a multi billion dollar business where every day decisions are made that can make or break the entire outfit. Compared to CEO's at AA,DL,AC,BA and the like, Dixon is pretty good value.

Kaptin M. always playing the scabcard. Are you really drawing a connection between industrial relations and the breakdown of civilized society? To throw the scab word around as you do is to assume there are no valid alternative opinions. Is this really reflective of the world in which we live?

captinrats - i have read the post by mach 2 male. Unfortunately, all credibility is destroyed with comments like "As a result of all this Qantas now has the most efficient and cost effective Cabin Crew on the planet(except for,perhaps Air NZ who have 13 on A 747-400)". Have a think about the airlines competing against Qantas on most longhaul routes and how "efficient" they are. This comment highlights how unarmed the members are as the battle looms. Do you know how cabin crew at Thai are paid? Or Malaysian? Are you aware of what "min rest" means to cabin crew at Air China?

[captainrats]

Instead of making assertions please supply some hard facts....How much are Thai and Malaysian crew paid?What are crew rest requirements on Air China?Remember though wages reflect a cost of living relative to the country in which they are paid!
Also how many cabin crew do these airlines have as a 747.400 complement?Crew complements do have an impact on quality of service available.

[Wirraway]

Wed "The Australian"

Qantas attendants 'bulldozed' through training
Steve Creedy, Aviation writer
October 20, 2004

QANTAS faces further checks of its flight attendant training after allegations in an internal email that controversial fixed-term flight attendants are being bulldozed through emergency procedures training.

The allegations, contained in a leaked internal memo from senior Qantas emergency procedures instructor Robert Ford, were forwarded by flight attendant union officials to the Civil Aviation Safety Authority last night.

"I am seriously concerned about the way the contingency students are being bulldozed through," Mr Ford said in the memo.

"It seems to me that the company is only interested in numbers, not quality."

About 350 fixed-term flight attendants are at the centre of a dispute between Qantas and the Flight Attendants Association of Australia about overseas bases. The FAAA fears the airline will use the fixed-termers as strikebreakers if it takes industrial action over Christmas.

The fixed-termers do 11 days' training instead of the normal six weeks, but the airline and CASA say this is because they are being trained on only one aircraft type rather than the whole fleet. But trainee assessments seen by The Australian indicate the new flight attendants believe they are not given enough time.

Mr Ford, who was unhappy about instructors' rosters, also alleged training reviews were held without course instructors being present.

"If we don't start getting the people running our two rosters talking to each other ... then the wheels are about to fall off," he said.

FAAA international division secretary Michael Mijatov said the memo indicated significant problems with training and called for an immediate CASA investigation.

"It's saying people are being bulldozed, it's saying Qantas is not interested in quality, and all this suggests the training is inadequate," he said.

But CASA spokesman Peter Gibson said two of its inspectors audited the training last week and had been happy that it was being conducted properly.

Qantas Airlines executive general manager John Borghetti said the airline's emergency procedures training for fixed-term cabin crew term training was the same as normal Qantas training and in accordance with CASA approved sources.

============================================

[Sunfish]

Possums, it would be a great idea to just chill for a little while. Rest assured that Oldmeadow and Co. read this stuff and the CEO gets a summary of what the current staff morale and flight attendant intentions are regularly. Therefore its probably a good idea not to post everything here. There might even be the odd management troll as well.However I think I can summarise the situation at present, at least in my opinion.

1) Qantas is going to have a go at breaking the FA's union. Thats pretty obvious, otherwise they would have taken steps to control the obvious effects of the London and fixed term hires on staff morale.

The precedents for this are the Wharves dispute in Melbourne (Patrick Partners) and the pilots dispute. Both of these are worth studying.

There are a number of ways that this can play out and I certainly don't know all of them.

The first point you need to know is what you are up against. The Government WILL be briefed by Qantas in advance and you should expect them to aid and abet Qantas managment. You should also expect CASA, ATSB, etc to follow suit if they want to keep their jobs. You can expect the Packer owned press to give you a bucketing as well. My guess would be that the Qantas Board is united as one behind GD, and there will have been very considerable behind the scenes planning for this that will only become apparent when action starts. For example, letting in Air NZ, Singapore, etc for the duration of any dispute.

Battle number one is going to be for public opinion. I've mentioned this previously. If you cannot win this battle then game over - you lose.

In the Patrick partners dispute, the wharfies won the public opinion battle, managment came in with black hooded guys with attack dogs and the public didnt like it. The wharfies then made a very compelling case, ran a brilliant picket line and won the public relations battle. Common sense then prevailed and a negotiated solution was reached that was a win/win for all. The "scabs" who tried to work the docks were reviled by the wharfies and discarded by management by the way.

I guess the question is how good is the FA's union? Are Qantas conditions better than they should be? Are work practices archaic? How do they compare with international standards? I don't know the answer. Maybe you need to decide whats worth fighting for and what is worth giving away. Its up to you.

2) The second point is what can other Qantas staff do about it? Who is on your side? Is the ACTU lined up? What about the Labor Party? Are there any other unions you can call on? My guess is that Lame's and Pilots can do SFA about this unless you act as ONE, like the wharfies did, and when the Airline and Government start throwing writs around, you tell them where to stick it.

My guess is that Qantas WILL use the law in the dirtiest way possible, for example individual writs to each pilot and Lame. The only way you can beat that tactic is to operate as ONE. The minute a few of you break ranks ANYWHERE, you are done for.

In my opinion, the most you FA's can hope for is a negotiated settlement so you had better work out what you want and what you can give to the company. In other words, what is a win/win solution for both of you?

By the way, if I were you, I would immediately get the message out to family and friends NOT to make plans to fly Qantas in the near future because of the threat of industrial disruption and safety concerns over strike breaking staff. That should get management's attention.

[Three Bars]

Zaptas,

To address the two points that you raised in regard to my post.

Firstly, you (like many others on this forum I might add) mention the poor Qantas inflight service. But how many make the connection between management's attitude to staff and staff's attitude to customers.

In the military they always used to talk about loyalty up and down the chain of command. Personally, I only ever saw an expectation of loyalty up the chain of command. Qantas is going through a similar process. As far as QF are concerned, all that their staff represent is a drain on the bottom line. If staff are treated this way. morale plummets (as I believe it currently is). With very low morale, service standards will fall. When cabin crew mention to me that a customer is upset about something I tell them to advise the passenger to write to Geoff Dixon and see how much he cares.

Secondly, while you might not equate employees pay to executives pay, I'm sure that every QF employee coming up for an EBA in the next round certainly will. You said that executives earn their money because they regularly make decisions that could cost millions and bankrupt the company. I think given the right (wrong?) weather conditions and operational scenario, pilots make similarly important decisions. So do engineers who service the aircraft. So do cabin crew who may have to evacuate an aircraft full of passengers. So does nearly everybody who plays a part in keeping these steel tubes safely in the air - away from the confines of a plush office.

One final question - are you advocating business without morals? James Hardie, I think, followed that route and I hope that some of their executives will now face the full force of the law as a conseqeunce.

[Kaptin M]

"Kaptin M. always playing the scabcard."
Do you have another more commonly used name for people who KNOWINGLY take others' jobs during an industrial dispute, Z.B.?

"Are you really drawing a connection between industrial relations and the breakdown of civilized society?"
I'm drawing a connection between the way people behave - regardless of whether it's an industrial relations event, or a picnic.
Dixon and Oldmeadow are now OPENLY ENCOURAGING some Australians to fight against, and try to destroy the efforts the current employees are making to SAVE their positions.
As children living in a civilised society, most of us were raised by our parents and teachers, to follow a set of moral and ethical guidelines...don't steal...don't kill.....tell the truth.....lightly gained is lightly valued.

Whether Oldmeadow and Dixon were raised this way might seem highly debatable!

Where is the credibility of a CEO who attempts to bring the employees beneath him to the lowest level possible, whilst simultaneously seeking outrageous INCREASES to his already enormous benefits and multi-million dollar income.
Compared to CEO's at AA,DL,AC,BA and the like, Dixon is pretty good value.Absolute garbage - Dixon is one of the HIGHEST paid airline CEO's in the world!

Sunfish states, " Qantas is going to have a go at breaking the FA's union..... you should expect them (the Government) to aid and abet Qantas managment."
Look at the BIG picture - this is an attempt to ultimately dismantle Australia's single biggest union, the TWU.
And with the Howard Liberal government now freshly elected for another 3 years, and with control of the Senate as well, wasn't this to be expected?
It seems to me, that under Bush in the US, management greed at the expense of the ordinary worker (by the outsourcing of jobs to other countries - namely mainly China) has flourished.
Howard has followed Bush's ideology of "Reward the people at the top of the company, and companies will flourish, thereby creating more wealth for the country, and providing employees with work".
Problem is, the employees are NOT US residents, likewise the jobs of QANTAS employees that were once held by Australians, and Australian residents, are now increasingly being outsourced to cheap, overseas labour.

Which brings me back to a question Zapatas Blood asks, "Do you know how cabin crew at Thai are paid? Or Malaysian? Are you aware of what "min rest" means to cabin crew at Air China?"
Having worked with Malaysian and Singapore Airlines, I can answer "Yes" to part of that question.
Let me ask you, ZB a question or two.

Do you know how many MORE cabin crew each of those carriers has on say a B747, than QANTAS?
Answer - Around 7 - 10 MORE!

Do you know which Hotels the crews from those airlines are accomodated in on stays?
Answer - The very best..the Sheratons, the Hiltons, the Hyatts. And isn't it accomodation costs that Dixon is using as his reason for wanting crews based in the U.K.!!

Enough from me for now.

Currently I am a QF FF'er, and have my family and myself booked on FOUR QANTAS flights, as full fare paying pax, in the next 4 weeks.
If this un-Australian plan to screw the Australian F/A's proceeds, I shall be taking my future $$$'s elsewhere, Mr Dixon!

[Chief Chook]

Could it be that GOD himself will spearhead the QF scabincrew?

http://www.thetravelinsider.info/imagesold/geoffatlantica.jpg

[oicur12]

Interesting info - when Leo Mullin was CEO of Delta, he took a 58% decrease in pay and stock options for 2002. He still netted 32.4 Million USD that year.

Doug Steedland, CEO Northwest just took a huge drop in pay and will nett this year 3.7 million USD.

To the FA's at QF. My understanding is the FAAA agreed to wage freezes during the SARS outbreak. Have these freezes been thawed or is salary still at SARS level. Is there an agreement to restore wages at some point in the future? Also, are shares still being paid to QF staff each year.

[Keg]

oicur, Since the SARS freeze, we've all negotiated EBAs with pay rises but we'll never get back the 3-5% lost by the freeze. We don't get shares anymore. I don't know why and we haven't had them for the last couple of years. Some people say that the company reckon there is a 'tax' issue. The only issue I can see is that when they 'paid' me $1K, I only got about $600 in the bank. That was also $1K flat whether you earnt $15K or $500K.

[oicur12]

so the share issues were not part of the EBA i take it. And the new EBA has recovered more or less of the SARS loss?

[Left2primary]

This information a cut and paste from the International FAAA-
Please do not reply to this email. Send all correspondence to [email protected]


October 20, 2004

Attention: All Qantas Long Haul Flight Attendants

A DREAM SHATTERED

Reprinted below is a letter received by the FAAA from a fixed term flight attendant that needs no further comment.

I would like to become a member of the FAAA after my colleagues and I from one the Qantas Flight Attendant training classes attended a meeting with you.

It has been a long time dream of mine to become a flight attendant and what an honour it was at the beginning to be accepted for training into Qantas, the leading airline in the world. But my thoughts have changed and frankly I am scared of the unknown situation that has presented itself to me.

I was given a contract for a three months fixed term for training under the proviso that I not have any other employment during this time. Three months isn't long but I thought ok – I've got my foot in the door and there may be a chance of maybe getting a full time position if I pass all the training. But at that stage, I was unaware of what Qantas' intentions were.

Therefore I agreed, I was in a group of wonderful people. We all trained so hard, as this was our dream and we wanted it so badly even with training at ridiculous hours.

During our time of training, there were lots of rumours, for instance that we were only being trained just in case of a strike from the full time flight attendants. We were given instructions about confidentiality and not to give any information to anyone about what we are being trained for. Our EP instructors were excellent teachers but they had no information for us – there were also rumours that we could be offered full time positions in London but whoever we asked we hit a brick wall and no one could tell us anything of what was going on.

To tell you the truth, “the xxxx hit the fan” on our last day of training. All the ones in our group that had passed the training exams were so excited to learn that we were now going to get fitted for our Qantas International Uniforms. To our disgust we were fitted with King Gee pants and a polo top. We wondered why they were treating us differently after all the intense physically draining intense training we had just completed and passed. We thought that the Qantas image was professional and corporate and something to be proud to wear but what we were fitted for was of a very poor dress standard.

Then a few of us were given contracts again – stating that we were not guaranteed fixed term – three months. And would be given four weeks notice of termination. People in my group were so mad, some of us giving up full time positions for a chance to become a Qantas International Flight Attendant.

I am totally and utterly disgusted in how Qantas is treating us – they don't seem to want us to become first class flight attendants – they just want us as back-up if the strike goes ahead. This is shattering news as we are after full time positions not just for a week or two and then left out in the cold with no job and no security

What really made me scared – if there is a strike we were told that we would not be flying with professional flight attendants? We “strike-breakers” would fly together and how dangerous does that sound. We were told that we could be working in all areas – first class, business and economy. Personally if I were a passenger who paid for a first class ticket I would expect first class service, not a person who has minimal training of only eleven days. I passed the crash course but I would have been happy to train for longer as to benefit the service and safety of the passengers I would be entrusted to serve. Experience is gained from working with other more experienced people and not literally chucked in at the deep end as they were implying we would be doing.

Our training group is scared that we are becoming the meat in the sandwich of this whole affair. What is going to happen to us? We want to become flight attendants and no one will answer our questions! The most information we received was only on our last day of training and it only feels like the only people we can trust is the FAAA and ourselves.

Therefore please find the following completed application forms for my membership with the Flight Attendant Association Australia .

Yours sincerely,

xxxx xxxx

This newsletter was written and authorised by
Michael Mijatov, Divisional Secretary - International

-------------------------------------------------------------

Our Bangkok based flight attendants are also being given two day course entitled " How To Be A CSM In Three Easy Steps".

For the life of me I cant imagine there would be too many tech crew eager to fly with a cabin full of such well meaning yet dangerously inexperienced cabin crew.

Remember how hard it was to get eight beers put on ice??????????

Swiss Cheese????
The holes seem to be beginning to line up to me.

Oh well, never mind.................. nothing must come in the way of Geoff"s bonus.

L2P "S.T.R"

[The_Cutest_of_Borg]

oicur12, no. There was no catch up of the wage freeze. We all took a pay-cut after inflation for that time.

[U2]

Great post sunfish and three bars.

Those post have lifted the standard on this topic. I am now waiting for the QF trolls the reply.

Can anybody give a ball park date for when the strike will occur...or will this not be determined until after the sick-out....or will this be kept quiet until notification to the IRC?

U2

[str]

U2,

The current long haul fa EBA expires on Dec 17th. From Dec 18th long haul crew can take protected industrial action but they must give three days notice to QF, so Dec 21st would be the earliest date.

The FAAA has made it clear they will only recommend/support protected industrial action. The threat of a mass sick out, which I personally believe a lot of crew will agree with, has been organised by a separate group of crew.

[aerostatic]

Can I recommend to all Qantas crew (and any other interested parties) an excellent film-documentary titled 'The Corporation'? I don't know about Australia but it is currently showing at Village Hoyts Queen St, Auckland. Some of you might be able to nip in during an overnight. There are multiple showings. It provides excellent insight into what drives large corporate organisations, such as Qantas! Here is a link:

http://www.village.co.nz/vistait/village/Default.aspx?Control=Sessions&MovieID=HO00001194

[AT502]

A friend of mine has just been through the very rushed FA course. They did it over a course of ten nights.

My friend has always wanted to be a hostie and when she got this job she was so excited and of course believed everything she was told! She, like all the others on the course, are now concerned as to what they have got themselves involved with.

I really hope they are not treated badly by the rest of QF crew, as they all went into this pretty blind and have now discovered nothing was quite what it seemed. And like all the rest of us, all this girl wants is her dream job, and thought thats where she was headed.

It is not a nice situation for the current FA's and the new 'standbys'.

Cheers,

Troup.

[str]

A friend conducted the interview for the 'new people' on 3 month contracts. He/she has been told by the company that they will never fly with existing crew and there is no chance of them ever being made permanent. Too much animosity if permanent crew found out they were working with strike breakers.

[Kaptin M]

That would be par for the course, str.
Post 1989 the airlines refused (unofficially, of course) to allow scabs and non-scabs to work together by not employing the "cleanskins".
The head of the Ansett Pilots' Union cited Safety as the reason.

Apparently if QANTAS have stated that the strikebreakers would not be allowed to mix with the non-scabs, they must also consider that they (QF) are creating a safety issue by employing these people.

Maybe Geoff will set up ANOTHER airline, just for the 3-monthers!!

[U2]

I think that one thing that all parties must appreciate is that Australians don't really want to pay for first class travel (GENERALLY). By increasing LCC we have increased the customer base and affordabliltym therby reducing first class passengers.

However, in Asia, where people dress up just to go down to the local mini-mart, many people who can afford to fly will pay extra to get a premium service. Additionally, they also prefer to fly national or Asian carriers. Additionally, labour is much cheaper than in OZ.


The point that I'm trying to make is that I don't think that QF longhaul, in its current form will be competitive in the premuium service market, especially in Asia.

To see this we only have to look at how QF have set up Australian to service the Japan region and soon to be JETSTAR Asia to be the LCC model.

What the F/A must appreciate is that the service that they used to provide is no longer economically desired.

i.e Australian (GENERALLY) don't want to pay a high price for a premium service they don't really want. We are happy to fly VB or Jetstar, so long as we get there safely.

In saying this the flight attendants must realise that to keep their jobs and pay they need to win as one. From reading other posts here it is a obvious that if they fracture or fall they are going to be screwed.

"United you prosper, divided you lose."


I'm sticking my neck out here, but I'll accepted any criticism.

U2