Flightsuits and Survival Suits

[SkippyX]

I recently picked up a brand new nomex flight suit from an army surplus shop. It is actually for tank crews but has reasonable fire resistant qualities. I wonder if anyone eles has one / wears one for flying light aircraft / has considered wearing one.

I suspect this topic will follow the lines of the bone dome argument. Ie. yes, once in a lifetime it may be handy but the rest of the time you will look like an excentric in the flying clubs. I suppose to be totally effective you also need nomex gloves and eye protection.

Whether or not I will wear it remains to be seen, but reading about the slingsby crash in January Pilot magazine where the occupants were trapped and there was a fire does make you wonder.

What do you think?

[Genghis the Engineer]

Virtually all the time, I can fill the pockets with all my flying gubbins, it protects my clothes (pre-flighting on a farmstrip and all that) and perhaps I have the eye of an ex-military man, but I think they look good too.

Oh yes, and if you crash, they're flame retardant.

G

[Dan Winterland]

If you were trapped in a burning aircraft, then you will toast. A nomex suit will give you a bit of protection, but it is just flame retardent, and that is it.

A mate of mine ejected from a burning Jag after a mid-air. The soles of his boots were melted, and his badges got burnt off. But the suit, and the bits of his body covered by the suit were fine. He wasn't in the aircraft for more than a few seconds after impact though.

[ShyTorque]

A word of caution though. Nomex is flame retardant but it is not a good insulator against heat. In other words, although it doesn't burn, heat will pass through it. For that reason we were ordered to wear another layer of non-melting clothing underneath, preferably cotton, as per our military long underwear. Racing drivers' nomex suits are multi-layered for this reason. Not a problem in winter, but the temptation is to go naked underneath in hot weather.

Whatever you do, don't wear nylon as it melts into your skin.

[This message has been edited by ShyTorque (edited 09 January 2001).]

[Ex Oggie]

Don't just put it through the washing machine either, if you want to keep the fire retardation effective. I believe they do need a certain amount of specialist treatment periodically. Not sure exactly what they do to them, 'cause I just went and got a new one. :)
Maybe there are some ex SEqF's reading?

Cheers

[WX Man]

Borax and Boracilic Acid. You can get it from some chemists. Can't remember the proportions, but I can probably find out for you if you want.

It will flameproof your clothes (or re-flameproof your flying suit after washing). It really works! The only after affects of 1 minute's exposure to flame of some thin cotton that had been treated was that it was brittle. No burning though.

[Stan Evil]

If you want to make cotton flame retardent then, yes you need to dip in all sorts of potions but Nomex IS flame retardent. I washed my Dan-Dare playsuits iaw the washing instructions every few days (gas mark 4 or whatever the label inside says).

[loglickychops]

How much does a Nomex flying suit (or tank drivers suit) cost then?

[Cahlibahn]

You can sometimes get bargains from
http://www.flightsuits.com/
I bought a Nomex suit from them for 58 bucks (nearer 100 dollars by the time I'd paid freight). It was listed at $218 but was a cancelled order. Very good service and it arrived within a week of order.

[Skippymon]

The tank drivers suit I got cost 20 quid so I couldn't resist! It was from an ex army shop on the south coast and the suit was vacum packed and brand new. Trouble is most are old and knackered or have been used for decorating at some point. Luck of the draw really. There were one or two proper flight suits with lots more pockets for about the same price but too big for me.

Brand new flak jackets too for 30 smakers if you are interested.

skips.

(By the way i changed name because excite crashed and I lost all my emails I ever had so I started over.)

[dwh001]

hi, my company is looking for a good cold water survival suit for the helicopter crews.any advice?
thanks in advance.

[heedm]

I don't know all that's out there, but I've been impressed with Mustangs suits. http://www.mustangsurvival.com/

What you should consider:
- How long do you expect to be in the water?
- How cold is the water?
- Is the suit comfortable/durable enough for constant use?
- Do you need additional flotation or do you want that from the suit?

I say this because we carry a dry suit with a thermal liner, gore-tex socks and rubber neck/wrist seals that is extremely good at keeping people alive. However, it's hot, uncomfortable, knees wear out for the GIBs, and it provides more protection than is needed in the summer. The result of all that is that most of the time our suits are sitting in a bag in the back, ready for us if we're planning on extended overwater/offshore flight or if engaging in a risky over water operation. Because of this we're looking at a more comfortable and durable suit from Mustang that will be worn more frequently. A suit that provides less protection is better than the suit you aren't wearing.

You should also consider signalling devices. Being able to stay alive in freezing oceans for six hours is great, but if the rescuers can't see you... I'd recommend a sea dye marker because it's visible from relatively high altitudes and it can "deploy" on it's own. Problem is it dissipates, especially in moderate or greater sea states. There's also a floating streamer from Rescue Technologies that looks promising http://www.seerescue.com/ . It's visible at lower search altitudes, so if your position is approximately known it works well.

Of course, a radio/beacon is the best signalling device to get the rescuers close and then a strobe light to get them on the spot. I think it's nice to have signals that don't rely on batteries.

Matthew.

[HOGE]

Try Multifabs. (Aberdeen,UK)

www.multifabs-survival.co.uk/ (http://www.multifabs-survival.co.uk/)

[TwinIMC]

We currently use the Multifabs suit for our daily trips in the North Sea. It's not the most comportable, but it will allow you to be active for the time needed for the pax. to be gathered. I've tried the suit in the "dunker" course, and you will get wet in a short time. I've also tried a new suit from Multifabs that will keep you "zipped" in at all times. It's better than the former suit but never as great as the ones the pax. are wearing. But you need to be able to function in it, and it can be pretty hot during the summer. I haven't seen any pilot suit making up for both. In addition we use an inflatable vest w/ a beacon and a knife. If you know that you are going to be over water for a long time, use a suit. Better to be safe than sorry...

[VLift]

22 years ago I had the opportunity to put on an Imperial (Life saving suit?). It was a "quick donning" suit. It had one-way valves in the feet to vent air. Other wise you could easily wind up head down with the feet inflated and not able to right yourself. I did exactly that in a pool wearing a poopie suit after stepping off the high dive. Rescue swimmers, good idea! I swam around in a fjord for 40 minutes with no sensation of cold. Had the survival vest on underneath and determined it was possible to pull an arm into the chest area, get the flare gun loaded and pushed out the top of the zipper, in calm water. But, this was a 400% stretch, double faced, "Quick Donning" neoprene suit. If wore this as a constant wear suit you would have no problem passing your next weight check if you survived the dehydration.

[leku]

Hi,anyone can help me to find a place for buying a flight suit in the European Union?Thanks in advance.

[bosher]

Yes, try RSH Air Ware, based at Gloucester Airport UK

www.rshairware.co.uk

[email protected]

and no I dont work for them.

[Dave Jackson]

A pilot walks into a psychiatrist's office wearing only a flight suit made of Saran Wrap.
The psychiatrist says, "Well...I can clearly see you're nuts."

[WestWind1950]

this place isn't in Europe, but they make great suits and will ship them over (located in California)... I know a few people that have ordered with them

www.flightsuits.com

they make suits for the military, police, and rescue units....

and no, I don't work for them! ;)

[ho lung chun]

Try Merit apparrel.(google search)
Much better than flight suits.com and cheaper.
I too don't work for them.
humbly yours

[NRDK]

Sorry it's not EU based but another link for Pilot equipment
And no I don't work for this State side unit eitherhttp://www.transaeroinc.com/catalog.cfm?fuseaction=listProduct&manufacturerID=42&category=pilot&subCategoryID=21&searchType=productLine&catStart=1&plineStart=1 (http://http://www.transaeroinc.com/catalog.cfm?fuseaction=listProduct&manufacturerID=42&category=pilot&subCategoryID=21&searchType=productLine&catStart=1&plineStart=1)

[QDMQDMQDM]

I hope you don't mind me posting this question here, but if anyone knows I suspect the users of this forum do.

I'm putting together some gear to fly cross-channel, to the Scillies and around the Baltic in a Super Cub and have a couple of questions about life vests, immersion suits and EPIRBs. If the engine quits and I manage to get out, I would hate to die because I'm stupidly under-equipped, although I'm not going to have a raft because of weight and space concerns and the low likelihood of getting it out of the baggage space in a cub.

1. Life vests
Doug Ritter at www.equipped.com highly recommends the dual chamber Switlik Helicopter Crew Vest as being the best on the market. Any feedback on that? They're jolly expensive.

2. Goretex versus neoprene immersion suits
I already have a (North Sea?) goretex immersion suit, secondhand, bought from South Eastern Marine Services for £100. I need a second one and am now looking at a US Navy / Coastguard neoprene one. Would this be a bad buy? What are the advantages of goretex vs neoprene? Anyone got any opinions on this?

3. EPIRBs
Various ones on the market. Any recommendations as to frequencies, brands etc.? How essential are they?

4. Any other 'do not leave home without' suggestions for gear, bearing in mind restrictions on weight and bulk and the difficulty of getting out of the front seat of a cub at the best of times? If you don't get out, it doesn't matter what you're loaded up with.

I realise that after my most recent contribution to the helicopter ditching thread I am laying myself w-i-i-i-de open, but hey! ;-)

Thanks in advance,

QDM

[Nigel Osborn]

You obviously buy the best gear you can afford. However not taking a life raft is a big no no. In some helicopters such as the Bell 206, it is impossible to get a raft out from the back seat especially if you didn't have floats fitted and had a front seat passenger. On those occasions I had a small single seat raft attached to my trouser belt, so that as long as I got out, I had a raft. Quite confidence building!:O

[SLBAGAGE]

Your obviousley going well prepared, but I think the most important piece of safety equipment for an extended over water crossing would be a HEED or Spare Air unit. All the SAR gear in the world won't help you if you don't get out of the aircraft alive!
A HEED 2 or HEED 3 system would suffice. It will give you about 30 secs of good air in a difficult situation.
Don't leave home without one :D

[keepin it in trim]

Definitely go for a "dry" type immersion suit, so the goretex would be my choice. HOWEVER, what you wear underneath it is vitally important. The suit will protect you from the initial cold shock as you enter the water but it will not provide you with insulation. If you do not therefore get into a raft you will still die relatively quickly from hypothermia, you've got about an hour in 5 degree water unless you are properly insulated. Several thermal layers worn beneath your immersion suit would be just the job.

Concur with the comment about a HEEDs unit, or STASS as it is also known, worth their weight in gold and have saved the lives of several helicopter aircrew in ditchings.

[moosp]

Perhaps not totally relevent to a fixed wing ditching, but if you can attend a Helicopter Underwater Escape Training course (HUETS) it would help your survival prospects.

Learning how to get out of a sinking inverted bathtub without too much panic from yourself and crew and the sea survival techniques thereafter would be valuable.

I do not know where an individual can attend such a course in the UK (The oil industry presents them in-house) but there must be a school somewhere running a one day session. A few hundred pounds for a skill for life...

[Old Man Rotor]

1......Firstly, Get a second engine for your Cub [and make it a Turbine whilst your at it].

2......Yes the Switlik is a good option..........and have your local boot maker sew the HEEDS/Spare Air holster onto the inside edge of the Jacket so the HEEDS is always attached [good advice Nigel......if its not on you when things go wrong, it won't be with you in the water].

3.....In your Switlik Pockets:

Heligraph
VHF/UHF Epirb
Day/Night Flare
Knife
Pocket Rocket Flares
Pressure dressing

4.......406 EPIRB [as well as the small epirb in your Switlik]......this will Tx on 406, 121.5 and 243 mhz.....and give a triangulation of your position....also it should be registered with your local SAR folk, and your aircraft Registration can be encypted in the Sat Signal........so we know who you are and where you are. [Use Google and "406 Epirb"...lots of good www sites for info]

5......Yes a high quality Heliraft [as apart from a marine raft]....reversable and better quality.

6......Personal suit of course....and wear it.

7......Fly as high as you can..........

8.......And of course that 15 year old Single Malt for the SAR crew when they find you.

Good luck.

[Vizsla]

There are numerous civilian "dunkers" in UK. Aberdean - Yarmouth
Fleetwood etc. One I would recommend is @ Andark Diving Nr. Southampton Tel: 01489 581755 - Andy who owns the complex is also a rotary pilot and runs a retail outfit selling wet/dry suits etc.
The civvy "Spare Air" will cost a lot less, is the same size and give about 10 minutes breathing near the surface. Best buy direct from California USA

[QDMQDMQDM]

Many thanks to all respondents. Loads of useful info.

The interesting thing is the extreme discrepancy between what most private pilots take to cross water (1 lifejacket of indeterminate age, possibly never serviced) and what you actually need to survive if things go wrong. It's good to hear it from the horse's mouth, but bloody hell this stuff is expensive, innit?!

The dunker course would be useful, but won't make it this year, certainly. I'm a bit sceptical about spare air until I've done the dunker course, but does anyone know of any suppliers of the civvy version?

Also, does anyone have any recommendation for very small, very light liferafts?

Thanks,

QDM

[jimgriff]

Give Del Hall of SES Ltd at Kemble a bell.
01285 771171

He can supply all you need including one man dingys for crew.
DO NOT GET A BOOTMAKER to stitch things to your life vest. Get a pro to do it.
Your life could depend on it.

[Red Wine]

In fact my wife attached my HEEDS system onto my Switlik..........and don't even try to go there!!!

Sit in a position that is consistant with your "Cub" and place the HEEDS Pouch on the left or right side of your jacket and adjust it up and down until its in a comfortable position that is free of belts, cords and other obstructions.........mark the position with chalk, and get your wife, boot chappy or Safety Equippy Chap to sew in onto the Switlik rearmost edge..........but attach it regardless.

I have seen chaps that use Velcro....however this can tear lose under the strength of a panic application!!!

Of course....never inflate those bladders until you are free of the aircraft.....

I undertook a world standard HUET/HEEDS Course at Nutech in Aberdeen Scotland..........apart from water finding each and every orifice in my body, I survived the day.

For a bunch of English Pounds...they will give you the skills you require........


Our HEEDS came from US Divers in New York USA.....there should be a www site for them.

[QDMQDMQDM]

I'm now looking at the McMurdo Fast Find personal locator beacon:

http://www.gps.co.uk/htmfiles/surveqip/fastfind.htm

The question is how necessary is it to buy the Fast Find Plus which incorporates a GPS receiver and transmits position accurate to 30m or is the Fast Find adequate at a mere 3NM? The Fast Find costs about £350 and the Plus costs about £700.

I guess the Fast Find Plus is much better, but it costs an extra £350. Expensive business this, isn't it?

QDM

[The Nr Fairy]

It's a question of trade-offs. £350 extra, versus giving SAR a position accurate to 30m if you should end up in the water. Assuming the worst, if you lose your raft and end up in the water with only a lifejacket , the reduced time spent searching may end up saving your life.

[QDMQDMQDM]

It's a question of trade-offs. £350 extra, versus giving SAR a position accurate to 30m if you should end up in the water. Assuming the worst, if you lose your raft and end up in the water with only a lifejacket , the reduced time spent searching may end up saving your life.

Yes, that's the problem with all this survival gear. All you have to do is imagine yourself in the situation saying: "Damn, wish I'd spent that extra £350, then I wouldn't have to die!"

Hard to argue with really.

Thanks all,

QDM

[zhishengji751]

reading this thread got me reading an AAIB report on a ditching in 1995 Aerospatiale AS332L Super Puma, G-TIGK (http://www.aaib.dft.gov.uk/formal/gtigk/gtigk.htm) and I just want to check something..
from the report:
The helicopter sank to the sealed and was damaged beyond economic repair
and
Since the helicopter then broke away from the Highland Pride and sank to the sealed it would, in retrospect, have been better if the helicopter had remained freely floating until it could have been recovered later in less difficult circumstances, or from the sealed if it had ultimately sunk.

I can only assume "sealed" is meant to be "seabed" :confused:

[moosp]

Ahhhaaaahhh Jim dal so you’ve never venturel to the lepths of Neptune where only sailors with brave heart and valour explore the sealed and the unlersea creatures that spenl their lays there. Nor facel the mighty powers of the AAIL with their runes of rhetoric anl amazingly missed d/l transposition typos??

(Sorry got carried away there…) ;)

[QDMQDMQDM]

I'm posting this here because I am guessing the Rotorheads are most likely to have most experience with immersion suits.

I have a Multifabs ex-North Sea goretex immersion suit which seems to fit me fine elsewhere, except the neck is extremely uncomfortable when done up and chafes. I have read a US Coastguard stern warning to its crews to make sure that the neck is always done up very tightly, or else water can get in, thus reducing the effectiveness of the suit. I am therefore guessing this is not an uncommon problem.

Do any Rotorheads have any advice on this? How can I get it to be comfortable and be waterproof at the same time, or are the two mutually exclusive?

Thanks in advance,

QDM

[2bart]

Try either a large size support bandage they come in letter sizes a to f or g, thigh size I find best or stockinette. it fits snug and stops irritation if the **** hits the fan or more the sea water,just pull it out to get the best seal. works for me having played mermaid.

[Mars]

As an inner garment, try a cotton roll neck vest. Same trick if used in anger, pull up the neck seal!

[Flying Lawyer]

QDM

Your question reminds me of an incident years ago when a friend and I flew the Atlantic in a fixed-wing.
He'd got hold of some used mil immersion suits and, when preparing our kit the night before the flight, gave me mine with a rubber band. Q: What's that for? A: One of the wrist seals is missing on yours.
Thankfully, the engine kept going all the way to Texas and we didn't have to test his improvisation in the North Atlantic! :rolleyes:

[QDMQDMQDM]

Thanks a lot all, I'll experiment with neck-fitting garments. I'm going on one of these cruise / expedition ship jobs to Antarctica, as I have mentioned before on this forum. With seawater survival times of 15 minutes or so, I think one of the biggest risks is an upset Zodiac, but they don't provide immersion suits for the punters, so I'm taking my own.

QDM

[S76Heavy]

Make sure to wear lots of warm clothing underneath as the suit will keep you dry but not warm.

[Heliport]

QDM

Hope the advice has been helpful.
In return, can I ask you to post a report or two when you go.

Safe flying.


Heliport

[QDMQDMQDM]

Extremely helpful, Heliport. I'll be happy to report back. And many thanks for magically combining the two threads.

QDM

[MD900 Explorer]

I don't know if this topic has been tortured to death previously, but i just wanted to find out what the views on this forum were regarding wearing Nomex flight suit vs cotton flight suit vs white shirt and trousers (probably polyester).

I can see that just like wearing a helmet it would be a safety feature to have the Nomex Flightsuit, but i understand there are pilots that wear the cotton versions, which in my opinion takes away the safety aspect of wearing it.

I guess the simplest arguement against wearing the flight suit vs the white shirt in a VIP enviroment, would be that you would scare the daylights out of your pax. They would probably wonder if you wore a flightsuit and helmet and where was their protection? :uhoh:

I wanted to do a poll, but alas being the blondie i am i can't find the feature that allows me to do this.

Regards

MD :ok:

[heedm]

If you're spending 500 hours a year in the helicopter and your pax spend 1/2 hour a year, then an honest risk analysis doesn't justify the pax spending $500+ on safety gear.

For you, however, it may be worth it. Don't wear synthetics next to the skin (including Nomex), do be comfortable and functional. I always plan to wear full length cotton underneath Nomex. Sometimes it's hot. If comfort becomes a factor I may change.

As far as your passengers, don't wear a flying suit that is oil stained, sagging, torn, etc. You can look as professional in a flight suit as you can in a business suit.

If pax are still concerned with you having safety gear and them not then maybe its worth it to have some safety gear for them to use. Could even charge them for it.

[Ginger Spinner]

Lets look at the risk analysis then.

I forget the precise figures but a five layer pro racing suit with full underwear, balaclava, gloves and helmet gives the wearer about 60 secs to scarper.

A single layer baggy gro-bag over your M&S shreds is probably worth a couple of seconds if you're lucky.

Against total heli hours flown, how many pilots have been singed where a nomex suit would have helped, not too many I'd wager.

Whiff of smoke and you hit the ground running, serious blaze is usualy post stoof where unfortunately you and the machine are usualy beyond repair.

On a lighter note I don't know of many VIP pax who'd be wildly impressed with a 'professional' flying suit. I'd have a word in your taylor's shell like if your suits are as smart as an overall.

[Jonp]

As a private pilot in an R44, in the winter a flying suit is great

With doors that don't fit properly, then the amount of cold you get around you middle in a shirt and trousers is quite high

You look a bit of a prat, but as I do 250 hours a year, at least I'm comfortable and warm.

[ATPMBA]

I usually wear a poor man's outfit, cotton jeans and cotton shirt, wool socks and my A2 leather jacket. I avoid man made fibers.

In Padfield's book, "Learning to Fly Helicopters", he addresses this issue. Eventually I plan to get a flight suit & helmut.

[HeliEagle]

Gentalmen,

We are flying offshore at very cold area,

Any information for Passengers' survival suits that you are using?(Types, Manufactures?)

Thx

[Gomer Pylot]

I'm very glad not to be able to help you. The water temperature in the Gulf of Mexico is still above 70F, at least further offshore, and around 60 in the shallow water close to shore. We don't use survival suits at all. :D :D :D

[Droopy]

We use Multifab, UK company Here (http://www.multifabs-survival.co.uk/products.cfm)

As with all survival suits, if they're to work at their best they're uncomfortable, but at least we don't have to sit in them all day long, slowly pressurising them from within :O

[Spunk]

I've got a Multifab myself but there is a variaty of suppliers.
I think this one is from Finnland klick here (http://www.ursuk.com)

:O

[B Sousa]

Hey Gomer, the water is almost 80 here in the Caribbean. Sharks love it.

[Helinut]

If it is really cold, then the "survival suit" is only half of what you need. A good thermal underlayer is a must too.

[Gomer Pylot]

There are sharks here, too. I've seen them longer than a 206, and I really, really don't want to go swimming out there. But it's still better than going swimming in 40 degree water, sharks or no sharks.

[R22DRIVER]

Hi all,

Im trying to get hold of a pair of flight trousers that have the clear plastic knee pockets on them. Ive been all over the web and all i can find is full flight suits with these pockets.

Any of you guys know if they exist or any possible contacts i can look into.

Many thanks in advance,

R22

[800]

In Australia try Sisley Clothing Company.

www.sisleyclothing.com.au/

They are very helpful and may be able to assist, and

no I don't work for them

[22to355]

French connection (I'm not a labels man!) do a version of a flight suit but its just a pair of trousers. front pockets side pockets the lot. great for flying. about £60 in uk thou!!

[r44tropic]

Like 800 said

If your looking for a good product in Australia check out Sisleyclothing.

Matt Sisley's a great bloke and is more than happy to build whatever you require.

Check his website, he supplies to all major EMS in OZ.

Tropic

[Windy Pants]

Try

www.silvermans.co.uk (http://www.silvermans.co.uk)

You can get RAF issue Nomex suits for £65.

Do I have to add, "don't work there, no affiliation"

...on a similar note and not so much "off topic" can we discuss why when the subject of helmets & flight suits come up, you always get the usual respopnses of..

"...you'll scare the PAX..."

"...you'll look a tw@t..."

etc. etc.

I can maybe agree that if you wear military versions in a civilian environment, then yes you do look a bit of a "Top Gun" wannabee, but what's wrong with civilian versions.

One thing I do agree with, if not in a shirt/tie/VIP scenario, is the wearing of a helmet if it's your choice. It's nothing to do with looking :cool: it's to do with safety. Like a previous poster commented, you're in the heli for a large part of your year, your PAX might only be in it 1/2 an hour. Statistically you are more likely to benefit from it than you PAX.

Also in the unlikely event of some form of strike on the cockpit the helmet could prevent serious injury. Additionally in an accident the helmet could prevent you from being knocked unconscious and maybe enable you to fly the helicopter to a safe landing. Likewise if you did crash you may be the only conscious person on board as you had a helmet, therefore you could be the only person available to pull people from the wreckage.

I see the pilots safety as the passengers safety.

Whenever I flew in a heli as a passenger, I just took it as being part of the kit a pilot was required to wear, I also thought a smartly presented flight suit looked professional and appropriate for the role of a professional pilot.

[Basher577]

Anybody have any good UK companies that sell quality nomex flying suits.

I see RSH have stopped selling them and other companies seem to be few and far between.

Thanks in advance!

[GameCube]

Try Derby Unitex. They seem to supply quite a few HEMS, Police ASU and firearms units as well as general industry. Cosalt Ballyclare are the daddies of the flying suit industry but normally deal in large scale orders (MoD etc).
I don't have a number to hand but I'll dig one out when I get back to work if a google doesn't come up with the goods.
GC

[GameCube]

Ok. I take it back. Google is the Daddy. Try these....
www.cosalt-ballyclare.com
www.derbyunitex.co.uk
Good luck,
GC

[HillerBee]

Try these:

http://www.xinteractiveclothing.com/index.htm (UK style and US style)
http://www.aureusinternational.com/ (US style)

[SASless]

Check for flight suits in the USA and avoid those ugly plastic thighed deals....just not chic old boy...plastic says it all.

flightsuits.com I think is the web site.

[R22DRIVER]

Also try Matthew at http://www.sisleyclothing.com.au/

He is specially making me a pair of nomex flight trousers at the mo and have been very pleased with their service. They will ship to anywhere in the world.

I know its not UK but still worth a look.

R22 :ok:

[BigMike]

We use flightsuits in the US as well. Good product. I know guys in Oz using Sisley. and the say they make a good product.

[O27PMR]

Strange question...

Anyone ever tried dying a Mk14a flying suit???

If so, how successful was it?

[Mustapha Cuppa]

Tried it once. Complete failure. I believe that the romper suits are virtually un-dyeable - one of the characteristics of Nomex perhaps?

[SASless]

Ginger Spinner,

Once had a pair of Nomex burned off me while inflight. Hydraulic fed fire caused by some rather high speed FOD came my way. Six weeks waiting for the burns to heal. The places where the baggy pockets doubled or tripled the fabric had the lesser burns and the single thickness areas especially the area where the fabric pulls tight over the leg above the knee received the most damage.

Nomex has the characteristic of not melting like other man made fibers. That prevents the melting fabric from sticking to the skin and causing very serious problems after the fire.

I would suggest clean unstarched natural fiber clothing provides as much protection as does the Nomex. A nice leather jacket over a 100% cotton shirt and 100% cotton undershirt will work fine. Same thing for the trousers, 100% cotton or wool material would work fine.

Anything nylon, polyester, or other similar materials to include panty hose for the Ladies are killers during fires.

Nomex flight suits only work in flash or short duration exposure to fires. If you find yourself in a hot fire for any length of time nomex burns off like natural materials.

Given a Choice of a single safety device, I would rank them this way:

1- Helmet
2-Leather or Nomex/Leather Gloves
3-Above the ankle solid leather boots
4-Nomex flight suit

The helmet gives you a better chance to survive the crash, the gloves will guard your hands so you might be able to use them later, the boots do the same for your feet, and lastly the flight suit keeps grease off your clothes.

[BigMike]

As stated, it is important to wear something under a nomex suit to create a thermal barrier between your skin and the nomex. I wear Icebreaker under-clothes under my flight suit. They are made from natual merino wool which keeps you warm in winter, and they are quite cool in summer.
They have the added benefit of going days without washing, and not starting to stink! There are different layers available and I use several when the temp really drops down in winter.

www.icebreaker.com

[freerideroj2]

Where can i get a very light nomex flight suit??? has to be as light as poss.

[BroomstickPilot]

Guys,

There's a company called Jays Racewear that supply motor racing suits and flying suits.

They can be reached at http://www.jaysracewear.co.uk

Take a look.

Broomstick.

[2bart]

Had multifabs suit did not wear well, had a darby unitex suit not impressed.
Now I have a back up RSH suit which I hate the collar on but I think an aviation supplier has taken on the supply (TA?).
I have recently been to Jays and what they have supplied seems very good they have supplied the MOD display teams for sometime REDS/BLUES....
They offer a range off Mods for heli pilots vented under arms, not sure about the zipped cuffs to the elbow.
Supplied in four weeks and good price
Take care with the self measurement.
I dont work for them but the best I have seen in 12 years non military supplied.

[HillerBee]

In the UK
http://www.xinteractiveclothing.com/index.htm

US
http://www.aureusinternational.com/

Aureus also supplies to the military.

[revilla22]

Can anyone advise if they know of a standard approval in the US for helicopter transportation suits? I am interested in the basic approval for the Nomex suit and testing standards. I am also interested if there is an approval with regards to an integrated immersion/dry suit for Offshore over the water transportation. Canada approved suits for Offshore oil market have dual Canadian Transport and SOLAS(Safety of Life At Sea) for these types of suits but I cannot find if there is a US equivalent. Have called around with no luck.:ugh:

Thanks.

[skiddriver]

No US transportation or immersion suit requirement for aviation. The Department of Interior has a requirement in their aviation guide (http://www.oas.gov/hqtrain/forms/refguide.PDF), and the parts of the CFR that govern marine operations have requirements for immersion and abandonment suits.

Use in the commercial market is driven by company standards. We're looking at the updated Transport Canada regs for our upcoming suit purchase. Previous use has been leased suits from a North Sea provider.

[revilla22]

We have been considering the Viking dual approved transportation/immersion suit. I believe it is the first dual approved CT and Solas suit of its kind where the built-in life vest can be set for manual in the helicopter and then automatic while on the rig. I read a lot about it in the offshore trade magazines. Need a suit for Offshore Alaska. Looked like the best choice.

Thank you for the info.

[Squirrel]

check out
www.massif.com
excellent nomex clothing, use it for winter heli-skiing and summer work. Elements jacket is a great all-purpose jacket and is pretty well waterproof - bib overalls work in conjunction for winter work. Lots of options for layering - also it all stretches, great after too big a meal.
They have a new flightsuit line - haven't tried it yet. A bit costly, but the quality is worth it.

[MD900 Explorer]

I wear a nomex III flight suit when i fly, made by WENAAS in Norway. Very good quality and not so expensive.

http://www.ary.no

Havn't found any decent nomex gloves yet, and i think it is flightsuits.com that does nomex under clothing too. :D

MD :ok:

[902Jon]

Does anybody have an up to date web address/ telephone no. for Ballyclare flying suits?

[Shawn Coyle]

I realize this isn't a swap meet or car boot sale or rummage sale or whatever, but I have a UK military poopy suit available if anyone wants it for the postage. It needs the neck and wrist seals to be replaced. PM me - going quick!!

[helimo]

I am looking for 100% cotton flight suits. Any Idea where to buy them ?

[BroomstickPilot]

Hi Helimo,

I don't know why you want cotton as it would burn like a torch in the event of cockpit fire. (Don't use anything made of polycotton either because that melts onto your skin first - and then burns).

Most flying suits nowadays are made from Nomex II for that very reason.

There is a variety of cotton called 'Proban' that is treated by the manufacturer to reduce permanently its flammability despite washing. You might be able to find a suit made from that, but you might have to trawl the US websites to find it. So far as I know it is no longer used for making suits in the UK since Stormbyrd went out of business.

There are, however, ways of treating ordinary cotton in your own kitchen that are said to reduce its flammability; (I don't know how effective these methods are, or what the fabric is like to wear after being treated, or how frequently such processes would need to be repeated).

The main supplier of flying suits in the UK is Beaufort, but so far as I know all their suits are Nomex.

'Hope this helps.

BP.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Or in the USA , Gibson and Barnes are a good bet - lots of size /pattern / colour variety in Nomex suits. Much cheaper than Beaufort, even with delivery and import duty.

G