Emirates 'eyeing' BFS

[BFS/BHD]

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/business_telegraph/story.jsp?story=571051

[Bang Or West]

Which is exactly what I predicted as far back as May:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=1353327#post1353327

[NWSRG]

A nice colourful T7(hopefully) or A330 into BFS?

Happy days.

...just imagine..."Emirates 70, hold at the Alpha One 25 hold for the Cherokee on short final...":E

[Pontious]

NWSRG

It will probably be an A330 as that's what EK usually 'pioneer' a route with. As for the callsign it will most likely be somewhere between EK027-EK037 because Emirates allocated:

EK001-008 to DXB-LHR-DXB,
EK009-EK016 to DXB-LGW-DXB,
EK017-EK020 to DXB-MAN-DXB,
EK025/26 to DXB-GLA-DXB &
EK039/40 to DXB-BHX-DXB.

Due to a shortage of slots at LHR and LGW, Emirates is developing more routes to the regions. Already in the pipeline are a 3rd daily MAN, 2nd daily BHX and they have had their eyes on DUB & CDF for a while. EDI rumour still rumbles.

Standby for some news when these existing plans have been actioned as it would be easy for Emirates to 'tag' BFS on to any of the new or existing services to the UK either daily or say 4 or 5 times a week initially then either make it a 'non-stop' and/or a daily service. I'm just wondering where they would HOTAC the crews. The Hilton at Templepatrick is nice but I would prefer Europa. Knowing my luck it would be the Dunadry!!!
Are you A330 or B777 rated?

:ok:

[NWSRG]

:O 330 rated...but only on a 15" TFT with XP running...:{

[Pontious]

:D Some nights that's the best place to be....!!!:yuk: :yuk: :yuk:

[akerosid]

Don't want to burst anyone's bubble, but apparently the decisions for this year and next have already been made and neither BFS nor DUB is among them. Hamburg and Brussels are said to be at the top of the list, although they're not making any announcements yet.

Bloody annoying, particularly from a DUB perspective. We've been hoping EK would fly in, giving us our first direct link with the middle east and Asia, but to no avail. There was a rumour about DUB and about the new Dublin Airport Authority having talks with EK, but clearly they see opportunities elsewhere. However, with EI's t/a ambitions blocked, they will start looking East and EK - which has virtually had DUB at its own discretion for many years - will have lost the chance.

[Pontious]

Not necessarily,aeroskid and you won't burst my bubble.

EK operates on a reciprocal arrangement basis whereby they wont let EI into DXB if EK are denied access to DUB.

So the odds are that EI have already probably had the nod for a good while to operate to DXB but had neither the spare equipment nor a strategy to develop Mid East/FarEast/Australia destinations but concentrated on their T/A routes.

They are eyeing lots of destinations and I had heard of Hamburg and Brussels but they were rumbled about last year and the previous year. The truth is if BFS happens, it probably wont be until after the end of next year at the earliest but EK do like springing surprises and the 3rd MAN and 2nd BHX have always been linked with 'continuations' possibly to other UK/Eire destinations. Remember Vienna came as a complete surprise as did Seychelles.

:ok:

[willywick]

akerosid,

you sure it is brussels? I hear benelux is still a few years away.

Hamburg seems to be right though with the other route being Geneva.

[Daza]

From another website BHX-DXB will operate with A330 equipment from 1/6/04 is this a sign that both services inc new one will be operated by airbus aircraft??
Daza

[halas]

Pontious

EK operates on a reciprocal arrangement basis whereby they wont let EI into DXB if EK are denied access to DUB.

Not true l'm afraid.

Dubai holds few restrictions and none for western airlines from operating into DXB. Nothing to do with EK.

And it's fifth freedom rights for all who want it.

EI can come as soon as they are ready. But with capacity nearly at saturation till concorse 2 is finished they had better time it well.

halas

[jabird]

Pontious - CDF = Cortina D'Ampezzo - or do you mean Cardiff (CWL). Sorry, just in a very pedantic mood tonight.

Would service continuations really work - surely it would be much cheaper to feed in using someone like Flybe?

The whole point on going via Dubai is that you get to connect somewhere that's a pleasure to use, about half way through the journey (nice time to stretch legs), instead of making a short hop, then a long jump. Adding any extra stops would negate this advantage quite rapidly - CO haven't done it, why would EK?

[Pontious]

Jabird

I did indeed mean that Jewel in Cymru's Crown. Sorry.
As far as DXB being a 'Transit Stop', the 'Powers that be' here are promoting DXB as a major holiday DESTINATION and the main business and finance DESTINATION for this part of the world.
The money spent here in investment is astounding and in the 'traditionally' low season here ( June- October) virtually all of the hotels on Jumeira Beach were chockablock with European tourists. Dubai is a Boomtown and EK want the pax they carry to get off in DXB and enjoy the place.

Halas

Mayte, I stand corrected. I was led to believe that the KLM/EK AMS route was a 'recipro' that EK hadn't yet exercised and that EI/EK had a similar arrangement that neither had exercised.

:ok:

[Joe Curry]

>>Don't want to burst anyone's bubble, but apparently the decisions for this year and next have already been made and neither BFS nor DUB is among them. Hamburg and Brussels are said to be at the top of the list, although they're not making any announcements yet.<<

Unconfirmed reports suggest that BA are a bit peeved at EK 'poaching' the regionals.

Perhaps BA may retaliate with regional
services to Dubai themselves.?

[Callum Johnstone]

Or more likely they will advertise some good deals on fares to Dubai from the regional airports via LHR ??

[Joe Curry]

BA seem to be advertising cheap deals from Dubai at the monent, contra-poaching.?

[eastern wiseguy]

BA are a bit peeved at EK 'poaching' the regionals

BA are totally UNCONCERNED about the locals as far as NI is concerned .....Whats hello cleared to land 25 in arabic?:ok:

[Cyrano]

BA services from the UK regions to Dubai?

Funniest thing I've read on PPRUNE in weeks!

If BA have put up with the likes of CO picking up traffic with direct services from the UK regions to New York (major destination in its own right as well as transfer point), why in heaven's name would they want to pull a stunt like starting services to DXB (which, although certainly a growing tourist destination, is still principally a transfer hub) with no onward feed? I can just see the scene in Waterside: "Well, we have a couple of spare 767s, and everyone agrees that Citiexpress management have done a stellar job over the last couple of years ;) so let's give them the 767s to run Edinburgh-Dubai and Bristol-Dubai nonstops. That'll stop pesky Emirates in their tracks!" :\

And as for BFS-DXB: I don't know whether a full 777 or A330 would have any takeoff limitations out of DUB. Other than that, can anyone offer any rational reason why EK would choose to serve the relatively small BFS market before the relatively large DUB one? :confused: Or is this thread just one of those reality-distortion zones where anything is possible and pesky considerations like market sizes don't enter into the reckoning?

[Count von Altibar]

It's all a load of rumour bollox! Airports talk to airlines all the time about new routes etc, very few actually get going for one reason or another. Emirates are more likely to start DUB-DXB first as the above post states. Would be good for NI though if it came off.

[jabird]

The lastest figures show 78% of pax on UK-DXB routes are using DXB to transit. With all the growth going on there, both in terms of route capacity (A380s + Etihad also announcing a new route per month through AUH), and construction (Palm Island, hotels etc), how is this figure likely to change - presumably more people will start seeing DXB as a destination in its own right, or at the very least as an alternative stop over to SIN, BKK or HKG on the way to Oz?

[Pontious]

Cyrano
A full A332/B773 wouldn't have a performance problem off 10/28 in DUB going to DXB as it is similar in length to BHX and GLA. BFS could be 'tagged' onto a DUB service because EK operate like that already. eg DXB-NBO-EBB/DAR-NBO-DXB & DXB-LOS-ACC-DXB.

BA have serious problems trying to fill a 763 & 744 0r 2 X 777 daily out of London to Dubai whereas Emirates fills 7 A332/A340's and B772's/B773's on it's London routes every day and is desperate for more slots that aren't available hence why it is developing routes to the regions.

Traditionally a fair few of the LHR/LGW bound pax. from DXB were transits for the transatlantic connections but even with the intro. of the DXB-JFK-DXB non-stop services, the London flights are still full with EK. I don't know the timings for the transatlantic services from the regions so I couldn't say if the EK services to MAN,BHX and GLA connect with the t/a departures from those airports.

I heard the figure was 75% of pax arriving at DXB were transits and that the Emirates Group plus UAE Tourism depts. are vigourously trying to increase the no. of pax staying in DXB,on business and holiday, with figures in the long term similar to some Mediterranean destinations.

2nd daily BHX starts early next year- confirmed.
3rd daily MAN on hold due to lack of aircraft + 'spare' equipment commited to other new routes so from June(?) capacity is increased from 2xA332 to 2xB772/3.

The 'Cheap' deals are probably to do with the start of Ramadan Kareem.

[Bang Or West]

<<BA have serious problems trying to fill a 763 & 744 0r 2 X 777 daily out of London to Dubai>>

Righty-ho then! That'll be why the winter British Airways programme has 2 x B747-400s and a B777-200 going every day. Keep taking the tablets!

[aeulad]

BHX is going twice daily and MAN is being upgraded to 772/773 a/c!?!

What is your source?:hmm:

P.S I second Bang or West's point Pontious:E

Regards

Mike

[Pontious]

Bang Or West

They probably need extra capacity for their 'Cheap Deals' that Joe Curry spotted for the UK Winter Holidays 'Bonanza and Yes BA did have problems with over capacity on the DXB- LHR route because that service was my 'back up' plan home in case my desired EK service to MAN was full and I'd missed the 'Lufty' service to FRA.
More often than not I'd turn up at the EK Staff Check-in counter and not get on the EK service because it was full but never had a problem getting on a 50% full BA 763 or 772 and as for a 744? Well that was positively a 'Marie Celeste'!! It was harder to go LHR-MAN once I'd arrived at 'Deathrow'.
So I have experienced BA's load factors on the DXB-LHR route about twice a month since March at first hand. Maybe it will change due to the time of year blended with BA trying to flood the route with over capacity to counter EK's dominance on the service. I mean it isn't really like BA to do something like that,now is it? Especially when the competition becomes dominant on a 'bread and butter' BA route like this.

Now what were these tablets you were trying to recommend?

Aeulad...sorry...Mike.

The morning DXB-MAN is going 772/3 from early June, while the afternoon DXB-MAN is staying on the A332 UNTIL the end of the Summer programme. After that they will both be 772/3. And yes, BHX is going to revert to A332's albeit TWICE daily.

My source? I work for Emirates.

Next question?

:ok:

[aeulad]

in that case, thats great news!:ok:

Regards

Mike

[willywick]

Pontious,

Just out of pure interest would you happen to know any of the new EK destinations for 2005?

Cheers,
WW

[billyg]

................................... and is it fact that GLA-DXB is being upgraded to a 773 from next year?

[Kestrel_909]

I'm not sure whether it was a fact or not, but I know for a fact that it was a 772 on the DXB-GLA-DXB on the 15th of this month.

[Pontious]

Emirates tend to 'up capacity' at the time of UK public holidays to their UK destinations.

EK replaced the daily BHX A332 with a B772 due to increased capacity requirement before they could justify a 2nd daily service. So this will revert to an A332 route served twice daily.

GLA's B772 was probably a 'sub' due to a tech A332 if it was a one-off appearance for the week. If it was a 772 daily for the week then it could be due to a local holiday (ie Half Term hols) but GLA A332 loads are about 60-70% full so it may not justify a 772 on a regular basis as yet. As for a 773 next year? I haven't heard that one.

New EK routes for next year... Seychelles is definite from Jan., also Beijing and Cape Town strongly fancied as are Brussels, Hamburg, Prague, Madrid. EK's Vienna route came ,quite literally, out of the blue with a couple of months notice- things happen that quickly. A 2nd daily New York and an L.A. service are doing the rounds but we just don't have the available aircraft yet.

EK start taking delivery of the first of 26(?) B773ER's in March at the rate of 1 a/c per month which will free up the A345's for expansion into North and South America. EK also have about 15(?) A346's arriving from the mid-end of 2005 with the first of at least 25 A380's from the end of 2006/start of 2007 and I lose track of the size of the 'options list'.
I also heard from a source 'further up the food chain' that EK are searching for some more A343's and possibly 'surplus' pre-delivery A346 slots at Toulouse due to the commercial success of the A343 & sudden demand for increased capacity.

Some new equipment will probably replace the A310's early A332's and B777's & EK keep an eye on the 7E7 development.

:ok:

[Daza]

Emirates 2nd daily flight from BHX is confirmed 1/6/2005 EK37/8 2045/2115 both flights will be daily with 330-200 Aircraft
Cheers Daza:ok: :ok: :ok:

[Jamesair]

PONTIOUS

Have you heard anything about the new UK destination for 2005 that was mentioned, but not named,in the Times article a few weeks ago?

[Pontious]

No. Would you care to enlighten the audience, James?
Knowing what the UK media is like for 'inaccurasies', I fear this may be the 2nd BHX service but I may be wrong. CWL, EDI, DUB and STN have all been surveyed.

In fact I flew 'J' Class from MAN last week and 6 'J' Class plus 20 odd 'Y' Class Pax were connecting from an EI flight originating in DUB, and 8 'J's and 18 'Y's joined from WW and BA BFS/BHD flights. I know that a lot of the freight on the afternoon MAN-DXB service originates from DUB.

If you hear anything please post it here as quite often we, in the sand pit, are the last to know.

:ok:

[Jamesair]

sorry about that Pontious, the article in question is at:
http://travel.timesonline.co.uk/art...1290466,00.html

PONTIOUS

The link above doesn\'t seem to work. However, if you go back to the main index of this forum page, to page 4 "new routes for Newcastle" page 4 again, the link on John Waltons 9th Oct entry still works.......good luck...sorry it\'s so complicated

[Cyrano]

As a public service :O , this (http://travel.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,17471-1290466,00.html) is the link that Jamesair refers to above (to save everyone having to go through this page 4-page 4 routine).

The article is not exactly a ringing confirmation of Emirates plans for a new UK destination, incidentally, just an unattributed "may include a new destination."

C.

[Jamesair]

Thanks Cyrano, that makes life easier:D

[Pontious]

Thanks Guys.

I'll keep my ears to the ground and let you know if I hear anything. EK tend to fly to airports situated near large Asian communities because they form the bulk of our trade.

I would have guessed at LBA or EMA but I think they are probably well served by MAN and BHX respectively. The same can be said for GLA's proximity to EDI.
STN or LTN for extra slots into London? (LTN more because of the proximity to M1/M25 plus a large catchment area of Asian families and businesses in the Luton and Watford areas).
CWL because EK's closest service to the South West UK is BHX or LHR?
NCL because the closest service to the North East of England is currently either MAN or GLA?
DUB or BFS because EK don't yet operate to Ireland?
And we've come on a full tour of the UK and Ireland. It's exciting times ahead so if you hear anything please post it here.

Also does anybody know if Royal Jordanian still operate a stop in SNN en-route Amman to the U.S.? Is it for fuel only or do they pick up/drop off some pax/freight? It used to be to JFK(?) or DTW(?) with an A310-300.

Cheers.:ok:

[neidin]

The runway at Dublin is very tight for a non-stop DUB-DXB. WIth full freight and pax it would be marginal on the larger equip that Emirates planned for the route. It is a non-runner for that reason. Similar to issues SA have with freighters ex DUB which hit CPH en route.

RE looked at 757-200 service from DUB-DXB but that was a flight of fantasy shot down by Irish Govt. and the new Dublin Airport Authority.

[akerosid]

EI flies A332s from DUB to LAX (I've even seen t/a departures from Rwy 16) and DL has flown 777s from DUB to ATL, n/s, so the runway length at DUB would not be a factor working against DUB; DXB really isn't such a long route.

It was disappointing that EK failed to add DUB again, but there are other airlines. There is now a recognition in govt circles that Ireland needs a direct route to Asia and hopefully, this can give rise to a package of incentives which can be offered to carriers such as SQ, TG, MH, CX etc - possibly EK as well. If the DUB airport authority could work with bodies involved in trade and tourism, I'm sure a package of suitable incentives could be put together.

[White Knight]

Sorry, but DUB's got a whacking great runway (10/28), which is far less limiting tham BHX!!!! Having flown in and out of DUB regularly in my last life - and now BHX flying for Emirates I can assure you that DUB is NOT limiting for a non-stop to Dubai!!:ok: The 330's got BIG BALLS:cool:

[Pontious]

Sorry Neidin

White Knight and Aeroskid are spot on. 10/28 definately is not a limiting runway for an A332. It is a vastly overpowered aeroplane and Dublin isn't exactly a 'Hot'n'High' airfield. 16/34 may pose a problem however.

If an A332 had a load putting it right on MZFW add to that about 50T of fuel (typical for a 7h-7h.30 sector), the aeroplane is still around 20T short of it's MTOW. Dubai is closer than you think.

As for a 757, it could probably make it DUB-DXB-DUB depending on pax.config/loads/routing/headwinds etc. The A332 is just a wide bodied 757 performance wise. I don't know why the Irish Govt. and D.A.A. disapproved.

SA's 747F's probably stop in CPH for commercial reasons just as CX and KA 747F's stop in BRU,FRA etc en-route to DXB.It's probably to pick up more freight as against performance cosiderations ex-DUB.

White Knight

Which one gives you the biggest goosebumps? BHX? or 05 at GLA?

:ok:

[TwinAisle]

What about DUB-CWL-DXB?

Kill a few birds with one stone then.....

6G better oppose the traffic rights!

TA