FLYBE to begin operations at Liverpool

[DQ4]

Announced today Flybe will commence operations from Liverpool to GLA, EDI, BHD and JER.

Flybe should do well here, especially with the economics of the Q400.

Good news for all concerned!!!

[brabazon]

Can't find any announcement on flybe's website yet. Does it make much sense to fly a Q400 from LPL-BHD, while easyJet operate 737s to BFS? The Scottish routes are interesting though..

[mysecretsmile]

The route announcement has appeared on the BHD website, so it must be official :


"FLY FROM BELFAST CITY TO LIVERPOOL "

11 October 2004

Flybe have today confirmed that from 10th February 2005
passengers will be able to fly from Belfast City to Liverpool.
The four daily flights will add 200.000 annual seats into The
North West.

Andrea Hayes,flybe General Manager Market Development
said,Flybe's move is part of its ongoing commitment to providing an unrivalled low cost airline service to all the major regional population centres of the UK. The North West
was a large gap in flybe's network. The choice of Liverpool as a major base of operation will meet the high customer demands in both regions. On sale from today at www.flybe.com . Fares start at £19 one way.
Already serving 10 direct destinations from Belfast City
this new route makes flybe the largest airline in Northern Ireland in terms of destinations served.

[EGAC_Ramper]

Went through the schedules looking for the flight times and appears to me that the LPL aircraft will be based in BHD.Departing at 07:05 along with the rest of the early FlyBE departures.Guess that means no more free stands for BHD,unless possibly the demise of the IOM/LCY route,who knows....:confused:


Regards

[mysecretsmile]

I had heard that BHD was to get a further 2 stands built
11 & 12 to accomodate the extra craft that will be on night stop ?

Any truth to this rumour EGAC_Ramper ?

I am also led to believe that other new destinations from BHD
are to soon be announced... possibly one if not two with a European flavour that will operate during the Winter schedule ? have you heard anything along these lines ?

[CaptJ]

I wonder is there any BAD news? i.e routes axed or cut back.

there is no way that Flybe can sustain some of the BHD routes with the current load factor. BRS would be a case in point.

[Powerjet1]

Will the market support 10 flights a day between Liverpool & Bellfast( easy x 6 BFS, Flybe 4 x BHD). I appreciate the distance between the two airports and the slightly different markets they each serve. Flybe obviously think it can. How will easy respond?. Increase freqs to BFS?. Would they even now consider LPL - GLA, EDI?

It certainly seems to be getting more & more crowded at all the airports around the country, as barely a day goes by without an announcement of a new route starting somewhere. Will they get enough pax to fill them?.

[aeulad]

Powerjet1,

Flybe have also announced LPL-EDI and LPL-GLA routes, and have stated in their press release that they are looking to add 4 further UK destinations from LPL, and regional french Airports.

This seems like role reversal, first easyjet hit at Flybe. by starting flights from LGW, BRS and NCL to Belfast, now Flybe. have hit back and added Edinburgh, Glasgow and the latest, Liverpool. Flybe. is proving a success at BHD, with it standing up well against easyJet competition. At the end of the day, unless there is a very large difference in the price, I would rather fly into BHD over BFS anyday. have just booked a thu out fri return from BHX to BHD with Flybe. £70. I had looked first at LGW to Belfast with easyJet and Flybe. coming out about the same, so at the end of the day, convenience often wins.

Regards

Mike

[with alacrity]

Unless Andrea Hayes, Flybe General Manager Marketing Development meant direct destinations to the UK then her comment that Flybe is the largest airline in Northern Ireland in terms of destinations served is seriously flawed.

On the respective websites,
Flybe destinations from BHD are eleven.
Easyjet destinations from BFS are thirteen.

Easyjet fly to ALC, AMS, BRS, EDI, GLA, LPL, LGW, LTN, STN, AGP, NCL, NCE and CDG.

Of course, I stand to be corrected.

[garethjk22]

With Alacrity,

Suggest you check your last post!

She says most UK destinations served, of the 13 easyJet ones you state, unless my geography is crap, 4 of them are not in the UK, which leaves 9 UK.

I think she would have checked that statement before it went out!

[with alacrity]

Garethjk 22

That is why the first word of my post was 'Unless'. The phraseology of the last sentence was open to misinterpretation.

Cheers anyway.

[Tower Ranger]

It`s good to see Flybe putting up a fight on the GLA, EDI and now LPL routes out of BHD. The Q400 is not gonna take much longer to get there than a 737 out of BFS so it will be down to fares and personal preference/convenience. The main advantage at BHD is location so load factors should not be a problem.

[CaptJ]

Flybe force you check in your baggage unless its the size of a toilet bag. As a consquence throwing the benefit of convenience right out the window.

The best thing Easy ever did was scrap the bagage weight limit. It has made a fantastic difference to the ease of business trips.

To hear some people you would think that BFS and BHD were on different planets, not 18 miles apart

Good luck to them anyway, not that they particularly deserve it for the hideous prices they forced us to pay before there was competition.

[MerchantVenturer]

there is no way that Flybe can sustain some of the BHD routes with the current load factor. BRS would be a case in point.
The latest available CAA figures for domestic routes relate to July of this year.

In that month Flybe carried 7590 pax on the BRS-BHD-BRS route (up 12% on the previous July) and easyJet carried 22,325 pax on the BRS-BFS-BRS route (up 13% on the previous July).

Taking into account the number of rotations in the month on these routes, the figures show an average Flybe load of 45 (just under 60% of the DH-8-400’s capacity) and an average easyJet load of 133 (90% of the 737-700’s capacity).

[bmibaby.com]

Considering that flyjem was looking at using their new (and I believe expanding) fleet of ATP aircraft on shorthaul flights ex-LPL, how does the flybe announcement effect their growth plans?

Also, can anybody tell me if there is a market for their five daily flights to IOM from LPL?

[EGAC_Ramper]

I had heard that BHD was to get a further 2 stands built

Yes possibly,their have been rumours but nothing has been set in stone yet.So going by the current stands BHD thus will have all stands ocuppied(bar stand25 at the old terminal for GA and privates.)
Be a good rush of departures in the morning to get everything away on time!!:rolleyes:


Regards

[dwlpl]

Will the market support 10 flights a day between Liverpool & Bellfast( easy x 6 BFS, Flybe 4 x BHD). The Liverpool to Belfast Int domestic route carries THE most passengers outside of a ex London airport route.

Last year the route carried 563,042 (up over 3% on 2002) so the city pair should be able to handle the extra 4*DH8-400 rotations.

[Tower Ranger]

Haven`t heard anything definite about new stands but there is room for four a/c on the old apron the only problem is finding the bodies required to bus the pax and do the pushbacks. As for getting away on time it hardly ever happens because of the slots and the fact that the a/c are seldom parked on stands to increase efficiency.

[EGAC_Ramper]

And if the Aviance thing ever goes through they certainly won't have the staff to be busing peeps about!!:yuk: :p

Regards

[Tower Ranger]

The "Aviance Thing" should be sorted very soon from what I hear and it may need to increased staffing as at the moment the people that leave are not being replaced which I suppose is great if you want some overtime. How many short is your team running AC Ramper?

[EGAC_Ramper]

Well I believe each team is meant to have about 16 permanent staff plus the supervisors so we'll say 18.At the moment we are working on 12 with temps being brought in who have no driving licences etc etc thru no fault of their own are useless as the airport see fit to bring in persons unsuitable for the job.
Like you sy they arn't replacing person leaving,we've lost a level 4 recently and another guy is about to go off to the AFS.As for me I'm departing end of Feb and can't wiat,seems to be sinking ship IMHO.


Regards:(

[fox_trot_oscar]

.....so what is Easyjet's response going to be to this HUGE expansion and even some direct competition at LPL where they have traditionally had around 80 - 90% of the market and the business...?

I somehow doubt that Easyjet will take this lying down....! Particularly with Jet2 starting up at MAN too...

This is clearly great news for Liverpool and the Northwest - my only concern based on prior dealings with LPL airport a while back is whether or not they are ready for this major expansion - sure the new(ish) terminal looks very nice, but the facilities beyond this - and attitudes to sorting them out - were certainly a notable problem.

FO

:confused:

[Trislander]

Another example of flybe's excellent choice to go for the Q400-the best easy can do now is increase BFS freq's and try to lower the cost. But at the end of the day BHD is the preferred airport - a lovely new airport terminal which is closer to the city, ideal for business and pleasure flyers alike.

Don't recall the toilet bag restrictions- flybe have a cabin baggage size gauge by the check-in desks which is the standard cabin bag size.

Well done flybe.:ok:

[eastern wiseguy]

BHD is the preferred airport

If you don't like to be out late ...after all they close at 2130....if you live in North Down ......or in the centre of Belfast....or you ...well the arguments have been explored here more times than enough ......there is room for competition,I just don't think that it will scare Easy too much.

[EGAC_Ramper]

I think there is enough business to go betwen Easy and FlyBE specially enough to fill a few Q400's.

Regards

[omoko joe]

Whatever next? a Daily Q400 to JFK starting in May from the 'preffered' airport. Perhaps somebody should check the annual pax stats to find out NI's 'preffered' airport:p

[CaptJ]

Trislander -

"Don't recall the toilet bag restrictions- flybe have a cabin baggage size gauge by the check-in desks which is the standard cabin bag size."

Its not standard, and you MUST know that.
It's 5Kg and the smallest dimensions of any operator. One size smaller than is common, and two sizes smaller than easy's current size allowance. Half of Jet2's, 80% of bmi.
Whats worse,they are rude and pissy about it.
I suppose its worth it for the convenience of saving 10 minutes travel time. Though possibly not for the "convenience" of arriving at Gatwick, without your baggage, due to weight/space restrictions.

Still as long as they continue to offer £0 flights I'll be happy to fly them.:E

[FourTrails]

garethjk22

With ref to 'With alacrity' post, I think you might find he is indeed correct. There is no mention of UK only in Andrea's contensious statement.

she wrote

"Already serving 10 direct destinations from Belfast City
this new route makes flybe the largest airline in Northern Ireland in terms of destinations served."

She is of course, talking, utter bollocks.

[garethjk22]

The press release I read (not listed here) specifically stated UK. I stand by what I said.

[dwlpl]

Part of the press release from flyBE:
"Flybe. is also announcing its intention to expand its services from Liverpool over the next 12 months to an additional four UK destinations and a number of French regional airports."

Part of the press release from Liverpool Airport:
"The launch of the new routes out of Liverpool is part of flybe.’s ambitious summer schedule for 2005/6 which will be announced later this year.

Mike Rutter, Sales and Marketing Director, flybe., commented: “We have big plans in Liverpool and the North West..... In the long run flybe. will have a substantial route network from Liverpool to UK and European destinations, the vast major of which will be complimentary to existing services from the airport."

My guess at the other four UK routes out of Liverpool is to Gatwick, Southampton, Exeter and Bristol with the IOM as an outsider.

[aeulad]

I would go for Guernsey, Southampton, Bristol and the Isle of Man. Not sure if Cork would be classed as an International or domestic type destination, but I see plenty of scope for Flybe. flights from Liverpool to Cork.

Regards

Mike

[jabird]

My guess would be NWI, EXT & SOU, with BRS probably making up the 4th. I think they would have said "UK & Ireland" if they were considering ORK, even if these flights are considered domestic. I think there would be good demand for LPL to LHR, but that's not really Flybe's market, and would BD risk the slots again?

LGW would be interesting - plenty of options for an alternative feeder to LHR - especially CO to the US, where there's already a tie up, but would Flybe be interested in that rather than just p2p?

[MerchantVenturer]

In terms of potential pax I would put BRS way ahead of EXT in the pecking order. However, it may be that operationally EXT would be easier as it is a base (I believe) and BRS is not.

EXT would be more convenient for leisure travellers to the far south west but would this sustain a 12 month service? Bristol is a major commercial, financial and hi tech centre with a lot of business people flying out of their local airport. There is also the potential for some tourist traffic around Bristol, Bath, Cotswolds, Mendips and Forest of Dean areas.

What might be a good compromise is a EXT-BRS-LPL route. The Southwest PLH-BRS-MAN seems successful. There might not be much traffic between BRS and EXT (by the time you have checked in and boarded the aircraft at one, you could have driven to the other) but overall this route ought to succeed.

[Golf Charlie Charlie]

<<
I think there would be good demand for LPL to LHR, but that's not really Flybe's market, and would BD risk the slots again?
>>

Hasn't history shown (and it's been discussed at times here) that there isn't really good demand on LPL/LHR, for a variety of reasons, unless maybe you have easyJet/Ryanair prices, and they won't work out of LHR. Would Flybe get LHR slots anyway ?

[Danny_R]

Golf Charlie Charlie,

History showed us that Liverpool to London wasn't popular, but as we have seen that is now old news, as VLM are having great success with London City.

There is no doubt that LHR would be popular out of LPL, however its very unlikely Flybe would be the one to operate such a service.

LGW is more the logical London airport, if a London airport is even on the agenda!

[lagerlout]

Think you can discount IOM out of the reckoning as LPL already got E/Manx and FLYJEM operating here. Pretty confident there aint room for a third.


My bets would be BRS , SOU, GCI (summer only ) and LCY competition for VLM.

Now what dya think of that?!?!?!??

Or maybe it all :mad:

[terrier21]

Bristol; very interesting havent heard this one rumered at all but you never know.

[Mouser]

Rail links with Liverpool are very very poor, so domestic airlinks will be very welcome Gatwick, Southamton, The West Country & Cork would be nice & more importantly it,s low-cost.

[dwlpl]

Mouser, I am told that two of the four to be served ex LPL are Southampton and Exeter.

[Mouser]

Does that mean Flybe will pull Manchester - Southampton.

[fimbles]

What about the Nov start of Air Wales linking Plymouth, Cardiff, Liverpool and Aberdeen. Where are all the pax going to come from to make the routes in/out LPL viable?

[Going loco]

"What about the Nov start of Air Wales linking Plymouth, Cardiff, Liverpool and Aberdeen. Where are all the pax going to come from to make the routes in/out LPL viable?"

Plymouth, Cardiff, Liverpool and Aberdeen, probably!!

[Smokie]

Hmm, nice to see Ms Hayes still Takin Ballix.
No changes there then!

Lots of routes, lot of expansion, shame that whilst the Q400 is still trapped like a rabbit in the Headlites, that this will progress no further.

Whilst it's down time continues to embarrass the airline, the full potential will never be realised.

Currently at least one "Teck 8" a day at the moment. The Honey Moon period is definitely over.

About time Da Mangement Wised up.











Buses or Boeings.................... Or get left behind:sad:

[narcisuslpl]

I don't think Flybe will try LCY from LPL.

When Flybe stopped their LCY-JER route they closed down their ticket desk at LCY and asked VLM to ticket their IOM/BHD route.

Would they set up another desk at LCY to compete on a route?

Especially against VLM who THEY asked/offered to take over their JER route... All a bit odd if it happened... :ok:

[ALLMCC]

"Nice to see Ms Hayes still Takin Ballix"

Reckon she must have completed a training course at the Webster, Meeson & O'Leary School of Hype & B**ls**t then!!

Do Buses & Boeings never have tech probs?

[EGAC_Ramper]

I can only speak from the BMI A320's/321's at BHD.To be honest they have a top notch reliability,rarely tech.As opposed to the Q400's though out of the fleet their seem to be more problematic ones than others,examples being G-JEDI/JEDP:O Only my observations...lol.


Regards:ok:

[blackflyer]

Up to now Flybe. have been showing zero fare plus £38 charges return for the Liverpool to Belfast route. This has now been reduced to zero plus £19.98 charges. Not a bad fare!

easyJet have now responded by offering £1 plus £10 tax return. I've flown numerous flights with low costs airlines for under £30 return, including STN to Bilbao for £14.99, but I've never had two flights for £11!

It's amazing what competition can do!

Flybe.'s Scottish routes from Liverpool, where there is no competition, remain at £38 return.