Disk "unallocated space"

[Raw Data]

Hi folks,

Anyone know the answer to this?

I recently installed a new HD in the home-made PC. It's an 80GB drive, with 5 partitions and 40Gb of unallocated space.

I want to use the unallocated space to either create a new partition, or increase the size on an existing one. However, when I use the disk management tool (XP Pro), the "New partition..." option is greyed out. I can't see any way to get at this unallocated space.

I tried PartitionMagic 8 and that couldn't seem to do anything with it either.

The other partitions on the disk are:

C: Basic NTFS 9.77Gb
J: Basic NTFS 3.73Gb
K: Basic NTFS 996 Mb
L: Basic NTFS 20.05Gb

The letter sequence is a bit odd because the missing letters were the partitions on another HDD which I removed, as it was failing.

Any ideas? I hate to waste 40Gb... :{

[Naples Air Center, Inc.]

Raw Data,

Why do you have so many partitions in the first place? Why not just use it as a single 80Gb Hard Drive?

Take Care,

Richard

[Raw Data]

Well, the advice at the time was that it is a better way to go... so XP sits in it's own partition, my XP "backup" installation sits in a second (allows me to boot the PC if the main XP dies - hey I used to use ME), all my stored files sit in a third, the fourth has all my programs, and the fifth used to be a Linux installation.

There are advantages, for example I can format just one partition instead of formatting the whole disk and losing everything.

My second drive, a 120Gb, will only have a couple of partitions as it will be used mainly for storing video projects.

As I said, all the techie forums seemed to agree that multiple partitions are the way to go, but I don't have a sound technical reason! :ok:

[Ausatco]

Raw Data,

You have a drive full of NTFS partitions. Each of those has a Master File Table (MFT) and the system reserves quite a chunk of space on each NTFS partition for that. It showed up on Diskeeper as Reserved System Space. There is a thread here. (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=141188&perpage=10&pagenumber=2)

AA

[Raw Data]

Yes, but isn't that reserved space in each partition? Even if it isn't... a reserved space of 40Gb...???

[Naples Air Center, Inc.]

Raw Data,

With winXP, you can do a fresh install of WinXP right on top of itself without losing your data or even needing to format. That is the beauty of it.

The main need for partitions was because OS's could not handle drive volumes, but that is a thing of the past.

Lets say you have WinXP on one partition and you format that partition and reinstall WinXP, you will still have to reinstall all your programs so they will work again. There is no advantage that outweighs the added complexity of multiple partitions. (Unless you are dual booting, but even then I just use two different Hard Drives for boot boot systems.)

Take Care,

Richard

[Raw Data]

Well, I realise about installing XP and re-installing programs. But, just for the sake of the discussion, I reckon there are some advantages to multiple partitions.

More to the point, none of this gets me any closer to liberating my "inaccessible" 40Gb, which I want back! Anybody know how I can liberate my hard drive?

Anyway - for the sake of discussion - the (debatable) advantages of multiple partitions are:

1.) Using multiple partitions makes backups of data easier and quicker. Just backup the complete data partition.

2.) By putting all the temp files ( cache, tmp temp virtual memory ) in a partition, you can also clean all of them off the drive all at once.

3.) By having all your system files on one partititon, and everything else in other partitions, you minimise the frequency with which you write to the system partitition - the old human error thing - bad installs, etc.

4.) The obvious point of smaller cluster sizes.

5.) The system partition will require defragging a lot less often, in fact the only partition I defrag regularly is the one where I store all my files - downloads, music, video, all that sort of stuff. Oh, and the partition with the games on it, of course... ;)

6.) I can store an exact image of my C: drive on a CD, which is useful were I ever to have a catastrophic failure. XP installs a lot quicker if you are accessing the hard drive rather than the OS install CD.

7.) Having a separate partition for the Swap File, prevents that partition from getting fragmented, which will slow Windows down. Set the swap file to have the same min and max size, then make it the first file on the drive. This locks your swapfile to an exact size, puts it on the outer edge of the harddrive which is the fastest access and reading, and since it is locked in size it can't ever fragment.

8.) I find multiple partitions easier to handle from a security point of view - I keep all my data directories on one partititon.

9.) Defrags are quicker.

10.) And finally... having a second, working install of XP on a separate partition, has saved my bacon on several occasions.

YMMV of course... ;)

[Naples Air Center, Inc.]

Raw Data,

I am thinking you will be wiping all your partitions and starting over to answer how we are going to get closer.

As for #7, let me shoot that one down right now for you. You always set Min and Max to the same size. I use 384Mb. It does not matter where it is on your Hard Drive since RAM is orders of magnitude faster than any part of your Hard Drive. If you see your Hard Drive light on, get more RAM. ;)

As for #6 if you have a "catastrophic failure" means it is all gone and the Drive Failed. Partitions are no use to you. If you want to protect against "catastrophic failure" use RAID 1. (Mirrored Drives.)

With WinXP #5 is not needed very often. WinXP does very well handling files on a Hard Drive and with enough RAM, you will not see slow downs even if you have a badly fragmented Hard Drive.

As for #4, this is not Win9X with Fat16 or FAT32, we are talking WinNT Kernel with NTFS.

I can go on but you get the point.

I think symptoms of the problem are showing up in the strange Partition Letter Allocation. Where are all the Drive Letters E, F, G, H, I? It looks like you need to blow out all the partitions and start over. But, before you do, check to see what value you have in Last Drive Letter. Do you have Z in there or L?

Take Care,

Richard

[Raw Data]

Ah well, usual story then. Every time you talk to an expert, you get a different story... sigh... ;)

The "catastrophic failure" I refer to was a disk I had where the Windows partition was damaged (bad sectors), but I was able to save other stuff in other partitions.

The only reason I can think of for the drive letter allocations, is that those letters were used by a previous drive I had in there which failed.

[CaptainFillosan]

Raw Data,

I would suggest from your description that you are putting all your problems in one basket, together with the bad eggs and the rotten apples!

Why don't you just have two hard drives. Drive'C' would be your OS drive and your next drive would have all that you want - AND - you can partition if you really must. In my experience, and those of mates and advisors, all say partitions are a pain. They are difficult to manage and become a problem when they fill - one or two of yours are already in that league and such small partitions will bounce more often than you would like.

If you need 40gb so badly get another 40gb disc. You can start over by putting XP on there and then transfer whatever data you want from your present drive and then format it. I have three hard drives and with the freedom to do whatever I want is amazing - and I have NTFS too. What's more, HDD are so cheap now. A 120gb will only cost you around £60.

Those partitions WILL cause you a problem I promise - as they already have.

[Raw Data]

I already have another (empty) 120Gb drive in the PC, but I don't see why I should give up that 40Gb, so I am trying to find the solution.

I have been happily partitioning drives since my Amstrad 1640 approximately 17 years ago. I have never had a problem doing so, and have certainly never been unable to use all the available space.

It's worth noting that I have been running some of these partitions virtually full with no problems, in fact the only problem I have had with this drive is not being able to get to those 40Gb. Well, I have got a bit sick of the "your disk is full" messages, does anyone know how to turn them off.

It's also worth noting that my Sony laptop comes from the factory with two partitions on its single HDD.

Yes, drives are cheap, but that isn't the point... it's me against Microsoft now... :}

I'm sure the problem is solvable, if one digs deeply enough... I'd rather spend a few hours looking for the answer, than moving everything over to another drive...

[Naples Air Center, Inc.]

Raw Data,

I have been happily partitioning drives since my Amstrad 1640 approximately 17 years ago.

Then keep going at it. ;)

It sounds like TCS had hit on a good possibility to your problem.

it's me against Microsoft now

You get'em tiger. :ok:

Take Care,

Richard

[Raw Data]

Bios recognises the drive correctly. I have three primary partitions, one extended partition, and my unallocated space.

I might just ditch one of the smaller partitions, and see if I can then work with the unallocated space.

I think I might give up on all this partitioning in future - far better things to do with my time!

Now- does anyone know how to get your home network working after installing SP2. It was working fine before SP2. Bl**dy Microsoft... :yuk:

[ck4707]

Raw data

Have you tried Diskpart.exe to extend the partitions into the unallocated space ?

Info on how to do it is found here (http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=KB%3BEN-US%3B325590)

Hope this helps

CK

Edited to fix link!!

[Raw Data]

Worked a treat, problem solved! Thanks very much for that.

Now does anyone know the answer to how I get my network working again after SP2... ;)

[Naples Air Center, Inc.]

Raw Data,

Did you turn off the M$ Firewall? It it turned on by default when you install SP2.

Take Care,

Richard

P.S. Glad to hear you were able to sort out your partitions.:ok:

[Raw Data]

Well, I can only get my laptop to talk to the main PC with all the firewalls turned off, which makes me feel a little naked! I can't get the kids PC to talk to the network at all, although it appears in the workgroup. I tried all combinations of turning different firewall settings on and off, but have had limited success.

I heard a rumour that there was a patch launched only days after SP2, but I can't find it anywhere (see this (http://www.pcauthority.com.au/news.aspx?CIaNID=16463&s=%22SP2%22)

I just wish Microsoft would warn us if their service packs are going to screw up our computers...

[Mac the Knife]

There have been partition debates on PPRuNe before. Gotta say I'm a partitioner, with the caveat that I don't think having multiple partitions on a smaller drive is very useful. I wouldn't suggest having a partition smaller than 30GB unless for special reasons - things grow, and it's a nuisance to run out of space. Separating data from the OS seems to me to be a good idea (though of course Windows doesn't do this by default) and a C: partition for the OS and a D: partition (think Data) is a good start. It certainly makes backing up and defragging much quicker and easier.

I have 4 30GB partitions on the main machine:
1: WindowsXP OS - NTFS
2: Shared Data - FAT32 (so that Linux can read/write)
3: SuSE Linux 9.1 - ReiserFS
4: Varies - experimental stuff, new distros etc.

I do prune things from time to time and hive archival stuff off onto CD and/or tape.

Just be careful creating/destroying partitions - you can confuse software terminally (Yup, I've done it).

Acronis software seems to me to be by far the best software I've ever found for backing up and fiddling with partitions - you can still mess up, but they make it difficult.