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Naples Air Center, Inc.
6th Oct 2004, 21:19
We have been fielding many questions about this subject. There seems to be a lot of confusion as to what this means for students training.

Yesterday I spent a good deal of time going over the new Transportation Security Administration (TSA) Training Rule with Homeland Security.

One thing that the TSA did not mention in the ruling, is that this only applies to FAR Part 141 Schools. Only FAR Part 141 Schools have Visa Authority to Issue I-20s for Foreign Students to train in the U.S. and this Rule only applies to Foreign Students that are training towards a Certificate, Licence, or Rating. (This is the same criteria used to determine whether a Students needs an M-1, J-1 or F-1 Visa.)

Right now, the TSA do not have any packets (with applications and fingerprints cards) ready for the Flight Schools but are expected later this month. At this moment there is no registration procedure for any Flight School, since the TSA has not given any information to the FSDOs. (So right now there are no passwords for any Flight Schools to be issued.)

The Security Training Material for both Schools and Instructors is still under development and not expected till the end of the month. Currently no one can be trained on the procedures which are required by this new Rule.

The goal of this new TSA Rule is to verify the person that shows up for training is in fact who they say they are. The procedure will be quite simple, and all that is required will be for the student to have and application completed, a picture taken and then be finger printed.

For NAC we have the local Law Enforcement setup to take the finger prints without any additional charges to the students. (The other schools should be able to work out similar arrangements.)

When this rule is finally implemented, the student on arrival will fill out an application, have their picture and finger prints taken and sent off to the TSA. During this time, the student will continue their training and will only stop if the TSA comes back and says to. The only time the TSA will stop a student's training will be if the student who shows up for training is not the person their passport says they are, since all students would have already been verified by the U.S. Embassy.

Capt. Richard J. Gentil, Pres.
Naples Air Center, Inc.

[Note to moderators: I posted this thread in three forums so you could merge them into one thread and leave links in Private Flying, Professional Pilot Training (includes ground studies), and North America Forums.]

Chilli Monster
6th Oct 2004, 23:04
Richard

Have you heard whether the TSA are going to streamline things and use this method for people doing training over 12,500 lbs - or wil they still have to go through the present DoJ / fingerprinting beforehand process?

dpm
6th Oct 2004, 23:09
Thanks for the information Richard; I was one of the folks pestering you (well actually Andrew M) on this topic.

Could you clear a couple of things up? First, the www.flightschoolcandidates.gov website seems to indicate that the new TSA rule applies to students seeking training toward FAA qualifications; so, are those (this includes me) seeking JAR variants subject to this rule as well? Second, is it definitely okay to go through the application procedure on arrival at NAC (or any other school, obviously) or is it necessary to go through the aforementioned website in order to get over the visa hurdles?

FYI, I'm due to arrive in early November; more worryingly (for me) my visa interview is just after the introduction date of October 20th; I wonder whether it'll cause a problem? (I think others are in a similar boat on this one.)

BTW, good luck to you and the other schools in dealing with this; the 130 fee etc are annoying for us students, but it looks like the burden for you folks is much heavier. (Hey paperwork just keeps taking over . . . . )

Best wishes, DPM

Naples Air Center, Inc.
7th Oct 2004, 00:09
Chilli Monster,

I did not discuss the above 12,500 rules short of noting that the TSA Plan is to get the below 12,500 training to follow the same steps as the above 12,500 training.

dpm,

As of right now, the U.S. Embassy Interview is completely separate from the TSA, so you will not be affected. The implementation of this new Rule is still two weeks away, so it can change. The problem the TSA is having, is they made the announcement and gave a date of implementation before any material was ready to handle their new program.

When you read the website you linked, you will note that short of the line for Category 3, nothing has been added to address the below 12,500 students. The website is changing and as of right now, no below 12,500 student should fill out that website's application form. (That is directly from the Homeland Security Officer I just hung up with 2 minutes ago.)

As I get new information, I will post it.

Richard

Naples Air Center, Inc.
19th Oct 2004, 14:04
The thread with the most current information is in the Private Flying Forum. Here is the link to keep up with any changes:

TSA Training Rule (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=147463)

I hope this helps clear up the new TSA Rule,

Richard

cfimei
20th Oct 2004, 06:42
Good luck to NAC and in fact to all of us tasked with determining who is and who is not a US citizen in order to comply with the new TSA training rule.

I haven't got a clue what an original or certified Birth Certificate from Mulhanny County in the State of South Dakota looks like, so I wonder how we can verify citizenship? What about an I-797C or the I-151? How are we supposed to know these are true documents and not clever forgeries? What is acceptable evidence and what is not?

NAC seem to believe this is a straightforward process. No unfortunately it is far from it and I'm not sure how we are supposed to comply when TSA have given us so little information, in fact I never knew about this rule until reading it in the AOPA magazine.

What a mess!

Gary Evans
President
Voyager Aviation

cfimei
21st Oct 2004, 01:58
LATEST UPDATE - OCT 20 2004 (NO CHANGE FOR FOREIGN STUDENTS)

After the recent actions of AOPA, TSA elected to delay the compliance for pilots (U.S. citizens and aliens) currently holding an FAA certificate, providing a 60-day exemption to December 20, 2004. However, aliens receiving training in the United States for the first time must comply with the rule now. That means, starting today, instructors involved in this training will have to meet the new TSA requirements.

(THE NEW RULE FOR US CITIZENS)

The revised rule — amended after the association affirmed the effectiveness of aviation record keeping throughout the world — now requires that flight instructors review the pilot's citizenship documents and note in the pilot's logbook that the flight instructor has determined that the pilot is a U.S. citizen and eligible to receive flight instruction. AOPA helped amend the rule to allow proof of citizenship to be noted by an endorsement in the CFI's and student's logbooks indicating that the pilot is a U.S. citizen and eligible to receive flight instruction.

TSA expect us to endorse a piece of paper confirming US citizenship - I think not!

Naples Air Center, Inc.
27th Oct 2004, 14:37
Gary,

I updated the thread in the Private Flying Forum with the latest information I have.

So far the process has been pretty straight forward for our students.

No major hiccups yet,

Richard