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Krystal n chips
6th Oct 2004, 17:34
A query please for the F.A.A / SAR guys. albeit from a long time ago.
This weeks ST mag has a very interesting article entitled "Would you be a Hero?"---worth a read I have to say--however my query is this. At the front of the article is a very old black and white photograph of a Widgeon ? / Firefly ? ( the aircraft is showing FD 981 as a unit code ) trailing what looks like a glorified fishing net ( with the winch cable at a very acute angle!)and collecting a couple (or one) survivor(s) in the process. I am curious as to whether this was ever a SOP or if it was simply an experiment at the time?
I am a little curious as well as to why they published this particular shot, given the hundreds of more up to date shots available, but doubtless they had a valid reason--other than it was the first one the photo editor came across of course.

Cornish Jack
6th Oct 2004, 18:29
The photo, almost certainly, shows the 'Sproule net'. This was a device invented by a Lt Cdr Sproule RN and was intended for use in SAR by two man crews. It was necessary because of :-
a) the very limited power of the early helos necessitating two crew only .. and ..
b) the requirement for the pilot to be 'pattered' into position by his crewman.
We inherited it for use on the Whirlwind but it was a liability and had a supposed record (apocryphal maybe) of having injured a 'volunteer' WRNS 'survivor'.
Its main problem was its tendency to 'walk' in any sort of surface chop which kept the centre of the front bar clear of the surface and, thus, likely to clobber the unfortunate survivor. :(
Since we worked a three man crew, there was no need for it and it became relegated to recovering bodies which had been immersed for long periods.
Used it a few times (for practice and demos) but not hugely impressed:(
PS Not seen the photo but likely to be a Dragonfly.

Krystal n chips
7th Oct 2004, 08:05
CJ,
My thanks for your detailed reply. :ok:

Dancing Bear
7th Oct 2004, 17:08
Never knew the name of it before but used one in '94 to fish a very dead and bloated cow out of the Adriatic, sadly afore mentioned bovine exploded into a gasoues mess upon contact leaving a very smelly net for the Aircrewman to clean up, oh those were the days!!

teeteringhead
8th Oct 2004, 11:07
Didn't fall out of a Russian Aircraft (http://www.snopes.com/critters/farce/cowtao.htm) did it Dancing Bear ?;)

6Z3
9th Oct 2004, 08:04
It was a real beggar to get right. Oh, the sweetness of those words "over the bar and in the net"

TH, whilst down that rabbit hole, I also enjoyed the "Barrel of Bricks" dit further down the same link.

Cornish Jack
9th Oct 2004, 11:52
The alternative to the Sproule net (on SAR Sycamores) was for the winchman to go 'on the wire' wearing an active headset plugged into an extending intercom lead (also on a winch drum) and to 'patter' himself into the pick-up position. At least, that was the theory:( In practice it was a real 'bag of worms'. Almost impossible to stay facing forward; the intercom lead continually parted and, if it stayed connected, hitting the water set up the most ear-splitting screeches!:mad:
Now, here's a question for Roger Bacon's Total Aviation Person?
What is the connection between SAR helos and the Hillman Husky???... No prizes, I'm afraid :D

Gainesy
9th Oct 2004, 12:07
Erm... Westland garage doors?

Cornish Jack
9th Oct 2004, 14:46
Sorry Gainesy ... No:sad:
Just a clue, then...
Sycamore SAR helos and Hillman Husky RAF runabouts.

Gainesy
9th Oct 2004, 14:50
OK then, Kaman Husky? Did they and Hillman have a wrangle over the name?:confused:

Cross posted fore I saw your clue. Now I'm clueless.

Cornish Jack
9th Oct 2004, 14:59
I like the thinking - but 'fraid not:sad:
I had a go with the Kaman Husky in Holyhead harbour. Skippered by a USAF major attached to a foot long lit cigar !! The 'hot mike' coupled with wander lead switches for both intercom and winch made operating VERY interesting!! The contra rotors produced rather odd downwash patterns - very useful for fire fighting but a bit of a no-no for sea rescue.
Anyway, another clue ... think hub caps :confused:

Cornish Jack
10th Oct 2004, 18:59
Oh, alright then!
Since we have no T A Ps, the Hillman Husky hub caps were quite nicely made, reverse parabolic mirrors. They were of a size which inspired some inventor type to position one on the starboard oleo and one in the pilot's peripheral vision, angled such that activity below the helo could be seen by glancing slightly down and right. I don't think it was ever accepted into service but perhaps it seemed like a good idea at the time.
The intention, of course, was to dispense with that abyssmal extended intercom lead and it's ear-splitting accompaniment to immersion:mad:

Gainesy
11th Oct 2004, 08:07
Damn,
I was just going to post that. ;)
Sycamore was a very elegent looking aircraft, but what was it like to operate. Apart from lack of range that is?

Cornish Jack
11th Oct 2004, 12:37
To operate?? probably best summed up as INTERESTING!!;)
Wooden rotor blades were made in matched sets of three - real British craftsmanship but commercial disaster. Distinctly short on power, especially where we were operating in temps of 40-45 plus. It also had an unfortunate tendency to ground resonance (three blade rotor and three point landing gear :( One of the QHIs on Whirlwinds had experienced the 'full monty' of ground resonance in the Sycamore and said that one moment he was sitting in an operating aircraft , the next he was sitting in his seat with a kit of parts distributing itself all over the airfield:(
Memorable moments - trying to get airborne from an 'up-country' wadi in high OAT and only succeeding by using a 'jump' takeoff and letting the wind drift us down-wadi until there was enough room to 'translate'. Also the first attempt at wet winching from Aden harbour - 46" boost and going down rather than up - yes, definitely interesting!!:D

teeteringhead
12th Oct 2004, 09:05
And IIRC the glue that held the blades together didn't like hot and wet countries, in many of which the RAF de les jours operated.

Never flew it myself (just before my time), but the last two were still in service with the Metropolitan Comms Sqn (grandfather of 32) when I went through Ternhill......