J1 Visas and Big Brother

[Ewe Turn]

Dear All in the "know". Your thoughts please about this "hypothetical" scenario. Lets say......

A friend has a NZ CPL H in addition to a UK PPL H. He wants to get his hours up (currently has 300 ish) and go over to the US of A and do his FAA CPL H and CFII and IR rating on a J1 visa. And then work as an Instructor.

Now I know that if you have a current ICAO CPL you are not eligable for the J1 scheme. But what if he applied to a US flight school ie HAI from the UK (He is a Pom by birth and has a UK passport as well) and lost some hours from his log book by way of a "tactical re-write". What would be the chances of him getting caught A. When he applies or B. During his stay in the States?

What data base would HAI , the US Immigration Dept and the FAA and CAA access to check up on individuals. Is his cunning plan viable?

Now I may be a simple sheep shearer but I reckon that in this day and age there has to be a data base somewhere with every person who has a PPL CPL whatever that the authorities are able to access and check up on.

Your thoughts, comments observations please.

I thank you.

[pilotwolf]

It s a route a lot of non US citizens would love to take...

BUT CHEAT AND LIE AND AS A MINIMUM you stand to be booted out never to return...

Is it really worth the risk?

PW

[Bravo73]

I asked the liaison guy from HAI the very same question a couple of years ago (already being in possession of a JAA CPL myself but looking to instruct in the States without any other 'right to work') even down to the detail of only declaring a 'PPL' to get past the J1 requirements.

Put simply, the guy said that people had tried to pull this scam a few times in the past and HAI were very wise to it. If you try and pass yourself off as 'only' having a PPL when you've already got a few hundred hours, it's normally quite obvious to the instructor that you might be telling porkies.

The reason that HAI are so against it is that ultimately it jeopardises the whole J1 visa scheme for future students if people are seen to be abusing the system. And no J1 scheme would probably mean the end of HAI...


B73

[reynoldsno1]

Don't piss off the federal government ... they are not nice people when aroused....:(

[Hippolite]

My advice would be to try it.

The US authorities are way behind where they think they are and where they would like to be with their databases.

Contrary to most people's perception, they are not yet linked between departments or if they are, they don't interact well.

Try it and good luck

HH:cool:

[diethelm]

Reynoldsno1:

The thought of the federal government being aroused is both scary and exciting...............

[reynoldsno1]

Wow, you bin on that Arizona mescalin......????:=

[Ewe Turn]

Some good points have been made. Thank you all for your replies.

As regard to "cheating and lying" as Pilot Wolf put it and and "getting booted out as a minimum" I can see where you're coming from stuck with a worthless FAA CPL in Blighty! The :( in your profile says it all!!!!! Personally I could only stomach a few months in the States given the current paranoia reigning at present so getting booted out would be no worries to me!
However the facts as as understand it are:

You are asked if you have a PPL and if you have one you say "yes". Truth.

If they do not ask if you have a CPL then how can you be can you "be cheating and lying"?.

If they do... and you really want to get in on a J1 visa without telling fibs tell them "no" and when you leave the interview post a pre prepared letter to the Aviation Authority where you have your CPL and ask them to cancel it.

You cannot blame someone for trying to get a headstart and going the opposite way by claiming LESS hours than they already have.

In my experience of dealing with Government Departments in relation to Immigration matters et al I have been advised by lawyers in the past to answer truthfully any questions that you are asked but NEVER VOLENTEER INFORMATION.

I tend to go along with Hippolites train of thought "Give it a try".

Reynoldsno1: Are you a frustrated civil servant? Or a cop who failed SWAT selection?? Piss off the federal government and they'll do what exactly? Oh I remember Ruby Ridge. And Waco. Oh I am scared!!!! Don't make me laugh!!!! You're one line reply to my question confirms my worst suspicions.

Finally:
Bravo 73: I was out flying with my mate last week and he would have no problems convincing any instructor he was only a PPL!!!

[Dynamic Component]

Ewe Turn,

How about letting your medical expire past the Class 1 date-thus your CPL is now a PPL thanks to the Class 2 medical.:}

[reynoldsno1]

Ewe Turn - I'm none of those, but I have lived & worked in the States and probably know more about the pitfalls of the J1 visa than you do. I am also acquainted with two people who pissed off the federal government - they are a lot poorer now than they were 5 years ago. Go ahead and play games if you want.....

[Dynamic Component]

reynoldsno1,

How aboutr popping a prozac or 2:hmm:
You sound a little stressed out:rolleyes:

[pilotwolf]

EWE TURN

Sorry if you don't like my advise but you asked for Your thoughts, comments observations please. so please don't attack those who respond.

PW

[Ewe Turn]

Dynamic Component- I like your suggestion and will forward it to the necessary person!!!

Reynoldsno1- When did you work in the US on a J1 visa? How did you become aware of the pitfalls?

Also did the two individuals you know who annoyed the Fed's (and become poorer) do so as a result of non complience of of a J1 Visa or as a result of something else perhaps?

I personally avoid confrontation with Civil Servants wherever possible esp. those employed by large government departments as they tend to have big legal sections who seem to like nothing better that going after the little guy, the guy trying to catch a break, guys like my mate.

Pilot Wolf. Where did I attack you? Or anyone else? Just a little banter mate :) Chill. Relax. Be cool.

[pilotwolf]

We all know the CAA read these forums so why not the FAA too?

Also the following FAA regs might be of interest..


Sec. 65.20

Applications, certificates, logbooks, reports, and records: Falsification, reproduction, or alteration.

(a) No person may make or cause to be made --
(1) Any fraudulent or intentionally false statement on any application for a certificate or rating under this part;
(2) Any fraudulent or intentionally false entry in any logbook, record, or report that is required to be kept, made, or used, to show compliance with any requirement for any certificate or rating under this part;
(3) Any reproduction, for fraudulent purpose, of any certificate or rating under this part; or
(4) Any alteration of any certificate or rating under this part.
(b) The commission by any person of an act prohibited under paragraph (a) of this section is a basis for suspending or revoking any airman or ground instructor certificate or rating held by that person.

[Whirlygig]

Ewe Turn,

You are going to do whatever you want to do irrespective of whether people on this site condone or censure your actions.

It is obvious from your posts that you are seeking the approval of others here since those who do not agree with your"plan" and think it risky or ill-advised are subject to "banter" - (a euphemism if ever I heard one).

Only you can assess the risk that you are prepared accept but, if it does goes pear-shaped, your actions will contribute to stricter rules for those that wish to follow a legitimate route.

[Ewe Turn]

Whirlygig

I don't seek anyone's "approval" as you put it but if the system in place at the moment is perceived- rightly or wrongly- to be unfair then it is natural that individuals will seek ways round it.

Also you seem to have some problem with the definition of the word "banter" :) (One cannot be subject to it- as you put it- but may partake in it). How is that an euphemism (sic) ?

You are correct however, in stating that only I can assess the risk and guess what- if I was in a similar situation I would give it a go. You can rest assured if it was me I would not leave an e trail on a public access forum stating my plan of action, occupation, name and location! My name is Billy not Silly!!!!

I would never condone a pilot claiming more hours than they have actually flown. However, believe you me, I am well aware of pilots in the industry lying about their total times and have heard this from several different sources, all A1. Stories of log books getting burnt in fires in PNG and being rewritten with a couple of THOUSAND additional hours, co-pilots logging time as PIC etc etc.

There is a massive difference with the hypothetical proposals in this thread. It seem to me that there is (an albeit miniscule) jealousy in the industry with certain persons AT ALL LEVELS (from aspiring PPL to ATPL) who feel that by planting the seed of doubt in a fellow pilots mind that perhaps they have in their own little world secured their current or future position in the industry.

I'm off to the Sounds for a week and wont have internet access- but look forward to logging on to Rotorheads in the very near future!!! i'll be sure to think of another thought inspiring thread.... possibly aerodynamic based.

[Whirlygig]

Where did I attack you? Or anyone else? Just a little banter mate Chill. Relax. Be cool. a worthless FAA CPL in Blighty! The in your profile says it all!!!!!

THAT was an insult, not banter. The ppruner in question did not partake in banter; it was one-sided and an insult. I'm sure PW is big enough and ugly enough to take care of himself (sorry mate!!) on this forum but I just wanted to point out that there is nothing wrong with my use of the English language and am perfectly aware of the definition and spelling of many words! How is that an euphemism (sic) ? What do mean (sic) ? The spelling of euphemism is correct.

However, I do apologise; I thought this was a course of action that YOU were contemplating and didn't realise it was YOUR friend.

I thought the idea of visas was to try to protect a country's own citizens' work prospects before that of immigrants. Therefore, I can't imagine any country treating it lightly if someone has been found to be "economical with the actualité".

[Ewe Turn]

Hi whirlygig:

Obtaining an FAA CPL H ,or any other professional licence for that matter, is of course an achievement. I meant worthless IN THE UK in relation to current JAR regs. It shouldn't be but them is the rules!!!!!!

In reflection a poor choice of words on my part and apologies to those who took offence.

Til next week.... I'm off to get bitten to death by the sandflies in Milton Sound.

Ewe Turn

[pilotwolf]

I meant worthless IN THE UK in relation to current JAR regs.

Strange cos I m happily and legally flying around in my shared machine. And of course N reg ships are flown under FAA regs even in the UK...

Thanks for support Whirlygig - definately ugly enough to defend myself - just couldnt be ass'd! :ok:

PW

[Ewe Turn]

Pilot Wolf

You are flying as a commercial pilot in the UK on an FAA CPL? Or just hour building perhaps? Thats why I was trying to get at!

See my previous post with my apology re my poor chice of words.

Regards

Ewe Turn