Expat Pilots

[x300]

Hello everybody,

I'm a 17 year old high school senior, living in the US, and I plan on attending a university where I will receive a 4 year degree in Flight Operations, graduating with my FAA CPL. I've always felt a strong connection to Germany, and have even learned a great deal of the language. I'm able to have conversations with people, and can read entire children's stories. If my German continues to improve, what are the chances of me landing a job with a German airline if I qualify for a visa and am willing to convert my license? Is perfect German a requirement for working at a German airline, or can I pass with basic proficiency? Thanks a lot for any responses.

[MOR]

It really depends on how much they need pilots. I have worked in Belgium for Sabena, and was offered a job with Air Berlin (which doesn't exist any more I believe), and I only have a few phrases of german and french.

The best thing is to write them all a letter (in german if you can manage it), explain what you want to do, and see how you get on. That will give you a better idea than asking here, and let's face it, there aren't that many german airlines!

Good luck with it, I enjoyed Germany.

[Kingfisher]

Or you could try a British Airline that flies into Europe extensively say Ryanair, Easyjet etc. You will need a JAA ticket but the skill of a european language will go down very well. Good luck.

[Trolle]

Lufthansa requires a level of understanding of German. As the other poster wrote, it depends on the airline. SAS, for example, was short pilots prior 2001 and removed their Scandinavian language requirement. Other airlines are happy to hire expats and have no language requirement. It all depends on their policy and what they need at the moment.

By the way, Air Berlin is still around and doing well.

[scroggs]

I've always felt a strong connection to Germany, and have even learned a great deal of the language.

Not enough, I'm afraid. To work in Germany, or any other EU country, you need the right to live and work in the EU. That essentially means that you must have nationality of an EU country, or you must be a first generation descendant of an EU national, and therefore have the right to bear an EU passport. Just like the Green Card system in the US, the EU attempts to protects its jobs for its own people. I can't work in the US even though I speak English, and may have an FAA ATPL, if I don't qualify for residency - equally you need to check with the German Embassy whether you could or would qualify for working residency in Germany. You haven't told us enough about your family history to allow us to give you any more accurate advice.

Scroggs

[Jetset320]

By the way, Air Berlin is still around and doing well.

I believe he meant the old Air Berlin USA which was around when, conviniently, only UK, French and US airlines were 'allowed' to fly out of Tegel and Templehof from the Berlin airlift days right up to German re-unification in 1989.

That company was US registered and disappeared around the same time that today's Air Berlin appeared, so I guess it was regurgitated as a German company, which also involved recruiting local crews.

[x300]

Not enough, I'm afraid. To work in Germany, or any other EU country, you need the right to live and work in the EU. That essentially means that you must have nationality of an EU country, or you must be a first generation descendant of an EU national, and therefore have the right to bear an EU passport. Just like the Green Card system in the US, the EU attempts to protects its jobs for its own people. I can't work in the US even though I speak English, and may have an FAA ATPL, if I don't qualify for residency - equally you need to check with the German Embassy whether you could or would qualify for working residency in Germany. You haven't told us enough about your family history to allow us to give you any more accurate advice.

I looked up some information about the German immigration system, and it says that in the coming years Germany will require at least 200,000 foreign skilled workers anually to maintain its current economic growth pattern. They're proposing changes to the immigration regulations to make it easier for skilled workers to immigrate to Germany. I doubt it makes any difference, but my father used to be in the US Army and was stationed in Germany for approximately 4 years. Since he was living on a military base, I doubt that makes any difference in my visa application. Thanks for all the replies. You've been very helpful.

[scroggs]

I'm afraid your Dad's military time in Germany would have no bearing on your chances. However, it is possible you could qualify for immigration (or at least a work permit) if the German authorities determine that pilots are a skill group they are short of. Personally, I doubt that will be the case, but you should contact the German Embassy in Washington to find out from the horse's mouth.

Scroggs

[Immelmann]

x3000

Try it, but don´t be disappointed!

Qote
...................................
To work in Germany, or any other EU country, you need the right to live and work in the EU. That essentially means that you must have nationality of an EU country, or you must be a first generation descendant of an EU national, and therefore have the right to bear an EU passport.
.........................

This is a valid statement. Furtheron there are about 1000 german pilots on the market without a job!

Many of them went to foreign, european Airlines.
Sometimes life is hard, sorry to say!

[x300]

Thanks for all the replies. If landing a job in Germany is too difficult, I would definitely enjoy working for an airline in a different European country. Does anybody know if there are any European airlines that have a history of hiring expat pilots?

[chuks]

My personal experience is that Germany is pathologically protective of their job market. They have a very highly regulated aviation industry here and rather than letting market forces work on it they treat it like a 'bonsai' tree.

I was told by some 'insiders' that I would get a lot further in aviation here with German citizenship than I would simply as an American with the right to work in Germany. Rather than put this theory to the test I accepted a position outside Germany, so that I really cannot say if my first impressions are correct. Generally, though, your liking/disliking Germany is quite beside the point, just as some foreigner thinking the USA that is wonderful will not get the right to work there because of that. It is a cold world out there; get used to that.

Generally, I would think there are more interesting and rewarding places to work in aviation that Germany in any case. You might try the USA, for one....

[Immelmann]

@ Chuks

of course it is easier to get a job with german citizenship in germany! The same applies for USA. But, how many are receiving a working permit (as pilot) in the USA???
I tried for long time. Yes, you can play the green card lotterie - what a solution. Marry an american girl? Invest at least 300.000 US$!
If looking for a job in the "EUROPEAN UNION", you need always the "right to work in the "EU"!
So, don´t blame germany alone for this fact!

Do you realy believe I could get a job as a pilot (german citizenship) in Australia?! Ha,Ha.

x300 stay first with the US market, get experience and than look around.

All the best

[yyzdub]

"I looked up some information about the German immigration system, and it says that in the coming years Germany will require at least 200,000 foreign skilled workers anually to maintain its current economic growth pattern. "

Not to dash your hopes but I highly doubt pilots will find themselves on that list. Australia is one of the few countries that list pilots on the highly skilled immigrant list but that is in the process of being removed. From what I know, most EU countries will look for local pilots and then pilots from other EU countries and it pretty much a guarantee that they'll find what they're looking for from the local pool.

You're still young though so who knows what will happen in the years to come.. besides, there's probably as many opportunities in the US as there is here. Good luck

YYZDUB

[scroggs]

Thanks for all the replies. If landing a job in Germany is too difficult, I would definitely enjoy working for an airline in a different European country. Does anybody know if there are any European airlines that have a history of hiring expat pilots?

x300, you really don't understand this nationality thing, do you? All EU countries operate the same system: if you can live and work in one EU country, you can live and work in all of them. If you don't qualify in one country, you don't qualify in any. Think of it like the individual states of the USA - there aren't different immigration laws for each state, are there?

Now, unless your mother or father is an EU national - and therefore you are entitled to an EU passport - you really don't stand much chance. If you are a second generation descendant (ie one or more of your grandparents was from an EU country), you may be able to appeal the automatic 'NO!'. You will not get in by having a pilot's licence - as in the US, there are many unemployed pilots and we don't need foreigners taking those jobs! If you were a doctor, or some other in-demand trade, you might get in on a temporary work visa and then work towards residential rights, but you aren't - or, rather, won't be.

You can visit all you like, and you'd be welcome, but unless you fit the criteria above, you won't get a job either in Germany or UK, France, Italy, Greece, Holland (and so on for 25 countries).

Scroggs

[Diabolo]

X300 try an IT formation then the doors towards Deutschland will be fully open to you :)

It s true! Nobody needs Pilots for the momment here.

First look around you, then if you really want to live a broad as a Flight Crew applie to Middle East or Asia as they hire guys from all around the globe.

GOOD LUCK X300 ;)

[B737NG]

The situation for Expats is not that you come and got a job. You
need expirience in Your field. Flight hours as a pilot and years of
work earlier. That you have to gain somewhere else under a lot
of pain sometimes. Then you might have a chance in middle East
or Asia. Please consider also the treatment as a modern Slave if
you go there. You are asked to respect the culture of the country
you work for but do not expect that you will receive any respect
vise versa. It is easy to see the Expat taking home more money
as a local but the Expat is history today if you step on anybodys
toes where you are. That can be a Purser or a Fist Officer or a
ground Handler. Believe me I helped a few guys when they have
been targeted out and some of the contracts where not renewed.
That is then payback time, so called. You allways have to act as
you walk on Ice: You can slide or it melts and is to thin to carry
you. That is part of the "romantic" Status as and Expat. I am one
for about 9 Years from now and I seen a lot bad things and a few
good ones as well. Careful what you wish for. Sam saight one day
to me one time Expat, allways Expat, You are home nowhere. He
lives in Greece and was born in middle East and works in Asia.

NG