Landing in your own back yard

[Time Out]

September 30, 2004 -- John Kjekstad was fined $75 for landing a helicopter in his New Canaan, Conn., back yard. Matthew McDermott

Here's a way to beat the traffic — fly above it in a helicopter.

Just don't get the neighbors mad doing it.

John Kjekstad, 42, co-owner of two companies that charter helicopters and private jets, was heading for Teterboro Airport in New Jersey last Thursday when he saw a big traffic backup on the Merritt Parkway near his home in Connecticut.

Not wanting to get stuck, Kjekstad decided to skip his car commute and land his seven-seater Bell Long Ranger helicopter in his back yard instead.

"It was convenient, the traffic was pretty bad and I was able to save 21/2 hours," said Kjekstad.

He landed safely next to a pond in his spacious yard.

But the noise angered a neighbor near his home on the cul-de-sac section of quiet Llewellyn Drive in New Canaan.

The cops came, and issued a $75 ticket.

New Canaan's town code bans non-emergency landings of "airplanes, helicopters and any other kind of aircraft" without a permit.

The law has been on the books since 1971.

Kjekstad said he had landed a helicopter in his back yard just once before, a few days before last Thursday's incident.

He said his unscheduled landing never put anyone in danger.

He's curious about which neighbor complained — but his wife, Hilde, said that, in any case, no more helicopters will land by the family home.

"I'll make sure he never does that again," she said.

Kjekstad's companies, which also own four Gulfstream Jets worth $8 million each, cater to wealthy New Yorkers and celebrities. Much of his business comes from charters to the Hamptons and the Foxwoods casino.

Kjekstad, who was born in Norway, has been in the aviation charter business since the mid 1980s. source (http://www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/19859.htm)

[helicopter-redeye]

It is interesting to speculate what would have happened if he had been living in France and carried out the same landing in a property there ...

[Ascend Charlie]

So, what's the hourly rate for an executive like this dude? Two point five hours of his time is wasted in a car, plus gas etc.

A $75 landing fee sounds entirely acceptable to me.

[Heliport]

He landed safely next to a pond in his spacious yard.
But the noise angered a neighbor ....... :rolleyes:

[overpitched]

Jealous neighbour ??

[SASless]

Define "neighbour"! Sounds like a real friendly place.....

[Barannfin]

well in the US were not really used to being charged a landing fee. And in the neighbors defence (not knowing how big the property is) it was his second landing in a week. He probably should have talked to this guy before contacting the authorities though. but oh well....:rolleyes:

[rotorboater]

I think he should just send a cheque to the police for $750 and get the neighbor really pi$$ed off!;)

[helipat]

quote:
It is interesting to speculate what would have happened if he had been living in France and carried out the same landing in a property there ...


The French regulation is simple,
you are allowed to land on private property with the following conditions:
- as a pilot you should have an off airport landing authorisation (background check valid for 5 to 10 years nationwide)
- the owner of the property allows you to land and allows the police/civil aviation/custom to come in if they want to check the helicopter when she's on the property. If other houses are closer than 150m from your landing pad you should have authorisation from these owners either.
- the property should not be in a city (legal definition of the city boundary on the IGN reference map)
- the pilot should inform the aeronautical police where he has landed (by phone, fax, before, during or after the fact) for tracability purpose.


Now if you want to land inside a city, or if your occasional pad is used too often (more than 50 movement per year or 10/day) then they are other way to follow.

Patrick

[leemind]

- as a pilot you should have an off airport landing authorisation (background check valid for 5 to 10 years nationwide)

Is that what is commonly (well, by me at least) known as a "Heli-surfaces landing permit" or is it something else?

I managed to get one from the Paris Police for nothing. Imagine the CAA giving you something for free :(

[206 jock]

Helipat,

I might be showing my ignorance here, but 'last time I checked' you needed the permission of the local 'mairie' to land, or the local police prior to landing. I own an apartment in the French Alps and am good freinds with people with a large garden, which would make a perfect landing spot.

When I checked if it was possible to land in the village with the Mayor, he says 'non'. And the police say 'talk to the mayor'.......

But if I read your statement correctly, as long as I satisfy all the other requirements, I don't need the prior permission of the Mayor or the police before I land. Oooh, I can see me having some fun. Is the legislation available to read anywhere? I'd need to be certain before I took a run at it.

[MightyGem]

206, having read a few articles on people trying to move and live in France, the local mayor runs the place. Regardless of whether you have all the correct paperwork, he says "non", then that's it.

[helicopter-redeye]

Some pond... Some yard (to paraphrase WS Churchill)

:cool:

and I think the answer to my initial question was "non aussi" which was what I thought it would be.

h-r

[helipat]

quote:

When I checked if it was possible to land in the village with the Mayor, he says 'non'. And the police say 'talk to the mayor'.......


If your garden is within the city limit, then you do need other authorisation (mayor and probably also the Prefet, with copy to at least 5 or 6 other administrations). If it's outside of the city limit (may still depending from the city, but outside the city boundary stricto sensu as shown in yellow or orange on the IGN ICAO 1/500 000 map), then that the regulation I wrote previously that does apply, and the mayor has nothing to say.

Mayor has some power in their city, but not as much as you thought. Of couse if you ask them of something they don't know about, they will refuse only to cover their ass. For landing outside of the city, there is a law, and mayor are not in it. Instead of asking them, inform them that you will do it. They will not be responsible for the decision, but will be pleased to know what you are doing. Same for the local police, they are not involved as long as you have informed the aeronautical police. The more people you ask permission for, the more they will want to impose their own view on things they are not competant for.

I have this regulation in a .pdf file if you want, but it's in French only...

Of course you still can have other regulations like environnemental protections and flying restrictions (natural parc, restricted airspace, etc...).

leemind:
Yes, that's the heli station landing permit. It's free like a lot of other stuff: in France, we like parperwork, but it's usually free (in fact not really, as we are paying on our taxes all the civil servants that are inventing new forms every day).

[delta3]

Helipat

I have a heli-surface (and a permit) in France (Var)
I thought the limit was 200 /year

I fully agree with your notifying suggestion that may be 'politically' the best. But I would still suggest to make a friendly telephone, or have some related party ask/lobby a bit with the mayor. Also in many villages/small towns the gendarmerie is not always up to speed with air-law, and they could come making time consuming PV's and arguing about fire risk etc.

A lot depends on the local situation : somethimes they allow you to land on the municipal parking (amasing), sometimes half of the authorities track you at airports by phone to verify why you made a landing in the open (emergence stop because of VMC in fact under flight plan and notified to Flight info) : it all comes down to 'neighbour' acceptance...

Things also change : For instance the island of Porquerolle in 2002 : clearance by the navy (was ok, but could take 2-4 hrs), in 2003 : clearance by the prefecture maritime (they asked for what week and started laughing if they heared it was for in a few hours), in 2004 : minimal procedure : just fax all administrative data (licences, insurances etc..) to the hotel.


delta3

[206 jock]

Delta3, I agree with you - when dealing with the local Mayor, sometimes it is best to go out of the way to make them feel important. But I have lobbied through local french people (after all, I am English), but he is not interested: the only helicopters he will 'allow' to land in 'my' village are those operated by Mont Blanc Helicopters.

So I guess it's always a choice: let the Mayor get away with it, or challenge him. I accept that it's not without risk, but I would really like to fly from the UK to my apartment. At the moment, the only alternative is to land at Annemasse, hire a car and drive up. I might as well swop the 206 for a plank!

[delta3]

206 jock

Challenging the mayor is of course the last I would do, but if nothing is left
then -following Helipat's- suggestion:

- verify if it is limited in the sense of registered town borders etc or if is basically country-side so not specially limited
- if it is safe and not to noise sensitive etc,
- the owner is you or is formally agreeing

Then the mayor normally cannot refuse, unless he makes some local decree which is in that case for everybody ... (see all the fuss in St Tropez, Grimaud etc). The mayor in Bonnieux for instance is not very Helicopter minded...
The fact that Mont Blanc lands gives strong precedences, unless it is for emergencies (SAR) they should have no special privileges

Certainly check with the neighbours (if they don't mind), because this is what most mayors want : to please their voters (which you unfortunately don't belong to..).
If all the above OK, then notify them and land all according to the book... (and hope)

Again as Helipat said I would only involve others such as the prefecture of your departement, if you know you can approach them somehow to avoid opening cans of worms.

And if nothing works, before disposing of the heli, why not look for another village...

Delta3

[MBJ]

Helipat - interesting information about landings..excuse my ignorance but who are the aeronautical police?

Is this a National organisation? ..or department by department?

How can I contact them?

[delta3]

MBJ,

I'am belgian not french but spend a lot of time there. My understanding:


There are two instances:


1. Ministère de la défense / Direction générale de la gendarmerie nationale /
Gendarmerie de l'air

Depends on the ministry of defence

35, rue Saint-Didier
75775_ Paris Cedex 16_
Téléphone +33 1 45 52 39 41_

Télécopie +33 1 45 52 23 67
Chef de corps
_ Colonel Gérard VANDERPERRE

If you speak French see:

http://lesservices.service-public.fr


2. Police de l'air which is now called Police aux Frontières

Has offices in most departments and depends of Police National which in turn depend s on ministry of the interior

see for instance http://perso.wanadoo.fr/marliotn/PAF.htm

or
http://www.interieur.gouv.fr/rubriques/c/c3_police_nationale/c336_dcpaf/index_html

Delta3

[helipat]

delta 3:
quote
I thought the limit was 200 /year

My mistake, you're right 200/year or more than 20/day, but that's for the number of movements. One landing and one take off count for 2.


quote:
2. Police de l'air which is now called Police aux Frontières


Agree. previously called DICILEC, thay are now back to their old name of PAF. You have to call them when you are creating an 'helisurface' by landing on it.
Their different phones numbers are in the

http://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv.fr/aip/enligne/METROPOLE/AIP/VAC-HELISTATIONS/VAC%20HELISTATIONS%20GEN%201.1.pdf

see page GEN-75

Patrick

[MD900 Explorer]

Anyway, back to the thread, i still reckon $75 is a reasonably cheap landing fee. Sounds like the neighbour has his head up his arse and is jealous he can't afford an LR himself, so he made the complaint. (Bloody do gooders :E )

The laws are pretty strange over there arn't they, but i suppose a law is a law, and if a $75 fine is all he got for breaking it, well, can't have been that an important law then could it? :{

MD :suspect: