UK airfields - pants

[headsethair]

C'mon - let's list the UK airfields that need to get their heli act together. It never ceases to amaze me how many airfields make a pig's ear out of refuelling, handling and collecting money. Why do you have to pay for fuel in one place, and pay landing fees at another - especially when there's a long walk involved between the two ?
They must lose money - they seem to employ too many people to do the job that could be done by one. Where are the handheld swipe machines which can take your payment at the point of delivery ?
Then there are the places which badly mark their pumps and/or have pump hoses which are too short : you land, shut down - then a hi-viz clad smurf tells you you're too far from the pump. And this is despite the fact that you landed where the apron was marked.....

INEFFICIENT: Hawarden, Blackpool, Filton, Southend, Wycombe

EFFICIENT: Huddersfield, Sheffield, Leeds Heliport, Goodwood

[206 jock]

To add to your inefficient list: DUXFORD. Unless they've had a 'sense' injection since I last visited, that is. It took me an hour and a quarter by the time I'd waited for the bowser to turn up, then had to walk to the Museum entrance to pay. Ludicrous. Won't go there again, even though it's my local field.

As for efficient, the best ones IMHO are the ones who will gladly do rotors running refuels. Sywell (if you call them before you arrive, no problem), White Waltham and Wycombe. Any others out there? I'm personally happy to pay a couple of pence more to save the shutdown/restart hassle if all I want is jet fuel.

Oxford is a bit painful, North Weald great, even though you need to shut down at both.

[rotorcraig]

Agree Wycombe inefficient.

Asked for fuel on arrival, and landed on the advised spot by the pumps.

Then watched for ages as a couple of men in yellow jackets attached wheels and towed R22 nearer to the pump behind a little truck ... because the hoses don't reach some of the spots!

RC

[pilotwolf]

This is the UK - accept it!!!! ;)

PW

[Disguise Delimit]

Next time you go there, take a can of yellow spray paint.

Extend the hose to its fullest limit, then walk around the pump, holding the hose at max extension, and 2' inside that, spray the reach limit on the ground.

Next time, land with your fuel cap on the line, and you should be OK. If the owner is anything like you say he is, he will not notice, and the fuel man will be glad you did it.

When the airport owner sends you a bill for the graffiti, send him one for your time and paint.

[StevieTerrier]

Inefficient? - Teesside. Time before last I waited 45mins for the fuel truck to arrive despite calling the tower at regular intervals to enquire and being told "the refuellers have been informed". Eventually I had to go intercept a tanker en-route to refuelling a 757 whose surly driver said "nobody told me". Finally took off 1 hr 10 after landing.

Last time (about two weeks ago) refueller was on the ball as soon as I landed. Sadly he had left his calculator in the Avgas truck, so I had to lend him mine. He spent five minutes trying to work out how to use it before giving it back to me and telling me it was useless and he couldnt enter .47 in it. Try 0.47. Oh yeah, that works... Then he realised he had no VISA slips with him (in the Avgas truck) so he had to go fetch them. All this time I was stood next to the tanker in th pouring rain. Finally done, I asked where to pay the landing fee. In through arrivals, through Customs, through the passenger terminal, and look for the information desk. Finally got there, joined the queue of civilians asking about car parking, flight delays etc etc. Paid the fee and then spent another 20 minutes trying to get back out on the ramp, which I couldn't do until a security officer could be found to escort me out there (wasnt answering his phone). i eventually tagged on th eback of a Citation crew who were heading out anyway. My camera operator thought I'd been abducted, so spent a cosy hour with the Air Ambulance crew drinking coffee and chatting. Total time on ground? 1 hour.

Time to spare? Go via Teesside

[matspart3]

In a blatant plug, I like to think we've got it about right at Gloucester.

What's more, you get a landing fee discount when you buy 50ltrs AVGAS or 200ltrs of Jet A1. The refuellers have to run back to the hut to swipe your credit card because the hand held swipey thing doesn't have a good enough signal...(the bank's fault, not ours!)...but they're a pretty efficient bunch normally.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Couldn't agree more about Blackpool. I weather-diverted a plank in last month - unnecessarily tortuous taxi instructions, then park in one spot for fuel, then (after a long and expensive wait for taxi clearance with the engine running) relocate to another spot for parking (about a quarter of a mile from the terminal), long walk to the terminal - then back to the aircraft for my pilots licence because they wouldn't let me into the pilot briefing room unless I showed it, then finally I had to be escorted back out of the terminal by a guard - they wouldn't just open the door for me. Not pilot friendly. Food was lousy too.

On the other hand, they did at-least waive the landing fee because I'd taken more than 50 litres of fuel, and the fuel price was reasonable.

G

[ppheli]

matspart3 - don't you do Rotors Running there at EGBJ? everything up to Merlins and Chinooks...

And I think Gamston do RRunning too (does that make them efficient or not?)

Elwood Helipad seems to get lots of movements too, deep in Northumbria - see http://www.aerialsolutions.com/flyin.htm and they do both flavours of fuel. Never been, but pictures on that site indicate a stroll across the lawn at worse (and a cream tea if you really want to pause)

and Durham Tees Valley Airport is just as bad as Teesside ;) ;)

[RS2]

EGBO, centrally placed does rotors running refuels. If you take up any fuel in a rotary then theres no landing fee and if your in a military helo you get a free breakfast or bacon sarnie. If you dont take fuel but your still in a military helo then you just get free drinks.

[rotorboater]

Wolverhampton get a lot of bad press but they are my 1st choice for refulling, Cheap fuel, pay at pump, rotors running and no landing fee, even the location is handy when going west of Birmingham. :D

Barton is a pain in the ar$e - refulling OK but then long walk to pay at higher rate than anywhere else and a landing fee!:ugh:

[VeeAny]

Bristol Lulsgate

Nice guys, efficient but start with £50 handling and £25 landing fees for a 206 and that'll keep most of us out of the place.

V.

[helicopter-redeye]

On the + side
: D :OK:

Gamston, fast, efficient, RR if needed. Will refuel without you there if you tell them what you need (to save time).

Carlisle, fast, short walks, good food.

Denham (on the helicopter side). I've RR'd on the North and the last Avgas invoice came 3 months after drawndown so good interest on the money in bank.

Cardiff (but a bit more expensive) but sure were fast and helpful.

Lands End (all self serve and within 50 feet)

Prestwick (v helpful handing team)

Oban (free tea and biscuits with every litre uplifted)

Wolverhampton (no landing fee)

Eaglescott (Devon) - but cash only (ie hard currency...)

Haverfordwest - looooooooonnnnnnnnng hose


---------------

On the - side
: *

Headcorn (HOW CLOSE is the fixed fuel line to the moving rotors) + thousands of biplanes parked in the way.

Sheffield (keep running out of fuel, etc)

Blackpool, either you push the beast to the pumps or walk a long way to pay for fuel from a based operator

Swansea (hose line distance problem - "it won't reach boyo")

Southampton ("you can't land 'ere" after giving permission to land for fuel)

Denham (on the other side) - 6 month queue of FW's


---------

On balance, bowsers are best, operated by military or ex-mil personnel

[panjandrum]

Headsethair

I am intrigued what aspect of Sarfend you found inefficient, care to enlighten me on where it's not working????

[headsethair]

Southend - well I call a 10 minute walk to pay for fuel and landing pretty inefficient. And the wait for the bowser can make you chew your fingers.

Gloucester - excellent. The ground guys (firemen) are excellent at fuelling and handling.

Sheffield - really impressive, but that could be because they have little traffic. Free landing with minimum 50 litre uplift. And probably the smartest caff north of Kemble. (Ah - now there's an inefficient heli field. Land for Avgas at pumps, which are laid out for fixed wing, then lift and park at tower to pay. Madness.)

What we need are more airfields to realise that helis are really handy profit centres. We don't need acres of space, we don't punish your tarmac, we love doing our own refuelling - and we love food!

[Mikeb]

My 10cents worth

GOOD

Shobdon - Quick for fuel, friendly staff. No hassle

Kemble - Self serve avgas, nice people. Good opening hours

Lydd - Guy's with a browser fill you up while you go for a coffee. Found the guy's in the aero club very helpful in planning my first cross channel flight... 5*

Caernarvon - ask for fuel on the way in, land at the pumps and they will be waiting to fill you up. Happy bunch, no hassle

Turweston - great service. Even gave as a lift to Silverstone to watch the racing.

Pembrey - good service, friendly. Uses a browser to fill you up. Just a pain for operating hours being in the middle of a danger area.

Blackbushe - Good all round

BAD

Swansea - No chance of fuel if air Wales flight is due in/in/due out. Pump always blocked by fixed wing, so land shutdown and push. Runs out of avgas quite often. Cafe is a rip off.. And closed on a Saturday. Airfield closed on a Tuesday.. It’s a joke

Cardiff - No avgas from airport only flying school who runs out quite often. If you land at airport not the flying club be prepared to get hammered for handling.

Denham - Most unhappy man in history on the radio...!

[Fortyodd]

Wolverhampton - Great all round :D

Lydd - Ditto

Luton - great refuellers, pants ATC.

[helicopter-redeye]

You can get fuel at Cardiff on the North side (and I didnt get any Hndg charge)

Agree on Denham but there is only one there that is a bit unhappy. Go on the days when he is off stag and its a much happier tower.



But all this complaining.

What would we want to suggest to the owners of airfields UK wide.

How about:-

Heli Only fuel area so no conflicts with FW traffic and hazards. Park at same place once fuelling complete.

Served by bowsers

Both fuel types available

Fuel staff only do fuel (so available when you want fuel) when you have let them know your coming.

A call ahead service so they know when your coming and what you need

All forms of payment accepted.

You do not have to be there when they fuel up, so eat while they work

Pay the fuel man at the bowser



:p

[magbreak]

My 2p's worth:

Thumbs UP :ok:

Oban - excellent service every time i've been there. Very friendly and willing to go out of their way to make sure you get your job done. And the free jammy dodgers!!! Keep it up Paul.

Carlisle - Short walk will rotors running refuel if you call ahead

Liverpool - LAS now very good although the bowser ran out of fuel on me one evening...whoops! Have to shut down.

Newcastle - Samson very good. Short walk to the coffee and the biscuits, and an invoice sent later.. Have to shut down.

Thumbs DOWN....:{

Teeside - Nightmare. Concur totaly with the waking through to pay at the information desk and then having to be xrayed and searched on the way out incase I hi jacked my own aircraft... Haven't been in for a while since the handling was made compulsary for bigger helis.

Glasgow - very good. not to a long wait and pay with the handling agent.

Edinburgh - ATC a nightmare. Wait for fuel not too bad if you call ahead, but you park "remotely" and have to get a lift in.

Heathrow - Fuelling very good last time

[pilotwolf]

helicopter-redeye ...Add to that:

Direct to parking flight/no need to fly runway approaches/separate traffic patterns/direct to tower - no multiple freq changes/free tea or coffee/free weather and briefing service/no landing fees to pay...

The US might not be perfect but the UK has a lot to learn for heli ops.

PW

[Tony Chambers]

What exactly do heli drivers want in the way of service and operations at heliports or helipads.

[helicopter-redeye]

Heli Only fuel area so no conflicts with FW traffic and hazards. Park at same place once fuelling complete.

Served by bowsers

Both fuel types available

Fuel staff only do fuel (so available when you want fuel) when you have let them know your coming.

A call ahead service so they know when your coming and what you need

All forms of payment accepted.

You do not have to be there when they fuel up, so eat while they work

Pay the fuel man at the bowser

No need to fly runway approaches

Separate traffic pattern

[Topter]

Would it be impertinent of me (seeing as this is only my 5th post) to suggest setting up accounts with the airfields that you use regularly. Would this save the long walks in the rain and the hassle with security - I thought that sort of thing was supposed to be kept for Belfast! Or is this financially prohibitive?

:zzz: P.S. what are these things meant to represent?

[CRAZYBROADSWORD]

Mikeb denhan can not possibly have the most grumpy bloke on the radio cause his names mick and here works at elstree the most unfriendly and useless place to land a heli if you want avgas because you will need your own wheels and a few bods to get the thing to the pumps.

Goods airfields

Shobdon
welshpool
north weald
turweston
andrewsfield
rochester
redhill

Bad ones

ELSTREE !!!!
denham
luton
stansted
gatwick
biggin hill [you will be in the hover waiting to leave for hrs]
earls cone

P.S hanbury manor is a nice place fot tea

[pilotwolf]

CRAZYBROADSWORD

Interested to know what you found bad about LGW - except the cost/lack of avgas/compulsory handling - same for all major airports?

Never had a problem at Biggin either except during snow when they seemed a bit short staffed... maybe just been lucky.

Maybe there just aren't enough of us about for airfields to understand us and our needs or flexibility?

PW

[tusitala]

i read with interest your comments on airfields around the country and refuelling problems. Out of interest, with regards to your comments on Southend, the apron is at best a one minute walk from flight briefing. There are certain points on the airfield where i suppose you could land. Now if you landed at the helicopter school, they have there own bowser for r22 and r44, but jet a1 can be ordered. If you elect to land at the helicopter club then you could settle with them, if they agree. But many helicopters land on the stands and seem to have no problems.
:ok:

[headsethair]

Erm- Southend. The one in Essex ?

The one where you can't order fuel through ATC, they tell you to speak with Flight Ops - so you shutdown, walk to Ops and Ops then tell you they can't take an order. They point you to a phone in the hallway and you have to call BP to place the order.

That's the place.

(Apparently all because someone put the wrong fuel in the wrong aircraft, BP carried the can and then instated this whole new form of Customer Service. They also won't fuel your machine if it isn't properly placarded........now that IS a good rule.)

[Zlin526]

Ah yes, but all those airfields that are useless for helos are probably fantastic for fixed wing!

Refuelling - no problem for me, I just taxi up to the pumps, fill up and then taxi away again.....:ok:

206 jock,

I dont suppose Duxford are that worried about a B206 never visiting again....leaves more room for real aeroplanes!

[pilotwolf]

Zlin526

- but we could fit a dozen heliports in the space of one fixed wing capable field.
- one runway could handle dozens of helis landing at the same time, albeit at right angles to it normal directions of use.
- why waste fuel taxy-ing if you can land right on the spot?
- if we/the fueller screws up we don't need bloody great fields/roads/runways/etc to get it back on the ground - a tennis court is plenty big enough - depending on type of course!
- and most of these problems would arise if you planks weren't in the way.

:p :E :p :E :p

[robnewman]

if you're going via cardiff try the heliport at tremorfa. great bunch, rotors running if required. very quick and efficient.

[Mikeb]

Cardiff Heliport is a great facility providing you don't need Avgas. They only do Jet fuel. Real shame would be so handy for us Welsh pilots.

[Bravo 99 (AJB)]

Just putting my 10p worth in but i can only say i have had good responces from
Gloucester
Thanks Guys (prob becouse i was in a PAS a/c) but they always seems very helpfull
Blackpool.
Well its fair to say that trying to get the 365 in is a pain at times becouse of to many planks and other traffic. but in defence of ATC they are allways good to us very helpfull and just generally good. Ground handling cannot comment on.
Shobden allways on the case

Cranfield is a bugger becouse of all the training A/Cs about but again ATC are always very helpfull.

Filton like to swop from radar to tower when you are half way down the ILS but you get used to that

Manchester is a bitch to get start and taxi clearance
Humberside again on the case from what i have seen
But i generally find most places that i have been to pretty helpful.

So reasonably Happy Bunny

Regards

Bravo 99 (AJB)

[ShyTorque]

Wellesbourne is good for quick refuels and the caff is good too.

[Bomber ARIS]

Filton like to swop from radar to tower when you are half way down the ILS but you get used to that

I cannot remember ever flying an ILS where this was not the case. Radar do their thing; tower do theirs. How on earth is one expected to make an IFR recovery (to an aerodrome with multiple frequencies) without eventually calling the tower for permission to land :confused:

Forgive my poor mood this evening, but either get your Captain to write your posts or ask Santa for a spellchecker this Christmas.

[Bravo 99 (AJB)]

Bomber hello mate

This was at the time i was doing my IRT so the stress was on then. but these days makes no differance as its part of the job.

What i think i missed to add was it was at the time when you Instuctor shut back the second engine for the single go round but hell who cares

Chill its all part of the fun

sorry to here you having a bad day


Sincerely
Bravo 99 (AJB)

[Brilliant Stuff]

I was always amazed by the fact that the tiny / small airport's where able to do running Rotor's refueling where as the big commercial airport could not.

I find it the most important to be able to do running rotors refuel's and the pay by credit card or they send the bill by mail.

I also vote for more education about helicopters for ATC and the Airfields.

I always try as much as I can to go up to see ATC and ask them if they need any help from us Helicopters or have them explain why sometimes they request funny things of us.

I have to defend Blackpool a bit here. I can not comment on the overnight parking or refuelling, we do our own (although I see that most helicopters that come in for fuel vanish within 10 minutes again off to their final destination).
ATC do their up most best to accomodate us Helicopter's, but they have a responsibility to make sure safety prevail.
And we all have our lapses of concentration which slow things down a tad.
Here it is all a bit eratic at times which can catch you of guard, so it might take a moment longer then one wishes but such is life.

Now that Blackpool is owned by the same people who own Wolverhampton maybe some of their magic will rub off onto us.

regards Brilliant Stuff

[helicopter-redeye]

It would be good to get some consistency in operating procedures between the two (which sounds like part of the theme in this debate, everywhere is confusing and annoying different). At Wolverhampton one can air taxi onto fixed pumps and pay the man in the cabin (no landing fee). At Blackpool, park on the stands and push the beast over to the pumps.

I think the HCGB do an annual education day (flight & briefing) for ATC but they can only touch about 10 to 20 people in that (correct me if I'm wrong Pat). It would be good to see this on a wider basis so that the consistency that is being asked for in the above n hundred posts came to fruitition.

How about it HCGB? You would be the best voice for the UK rotor community.

h-r

[niknak]

I wonder how many of you, if any, have actually worked at an airport as a refueller? :rolleyes:
Well, in the dim and distant past, I did, and you wouldn't believe the crap that they have to put up with from everyone who thinks they should be refuelled first.

Not only that, but we were under constant pressure from the airport's based operators (the people who provide the vast majority of the airports income everyday, not just once a month or even longer than that), from the airport authority who were worried that we were letting down their resident customers if we failed to be on stand to meet an arriving aircraft, but most of all from our employer, whose bottom line was selling as much fuel as possible in one go.
I rarely, if ever, refuelled a visiting helicopter, which took enough fuel to pay the real costs of utilising the bowser and company costs.

Thankfully, I am out of it and doing something that entails far less pressure, but the same applies to refuellers today.

In most cases, they do their level best to help, but if you adopt the sanctimonious attitudes that some of you have in this forum, **** off and land somewhere else.

[headsethair]

Ah.
Customer Service.
Two words that don't always get together in the UK.
Niknak - I think what we are trying to achieve in this discussion is efficiency which will benefit all involved in helicopter operations at UK airfields. By making the process more efficient, more customers will come and the airfield owners will be able to have more successful businesses.
Most pilots have a choice of places to refuel - and if some airfields fails to realise this, then they should know that they will lose revenue. (I for one would gladly pay a few pence more per litre if I knew that I could be fuelled & on on my way with minimum hassle - and as a consumer of 2400 litres of avgas in August alone, I think I'm a decent customer.)
It is not demeaning to be a refueller, it is not slavery to give great customer service. It's good business - and it makes us spend more.
(And before someone says "not enough helicopters" - nearly 100 more R44s are in this country this year than last year.......and they're not just sitting on lawns as trophies.)

[Wizzard]

I can vouch for Elwood.

Run by a chap called Robin, very helpful even down to the free tea/coffee and flapjacks! Don't think he does RR refuels but he's still very quick with everything done on the back lawn.

Wiz

[Hughes500]

Guys
Don't go near Heathrow of the West, whoops Bristol !
There the other day in a Gazelle, cost £ 65.70 to land and £ 30 handling fee. Fuel wasn't that cheap either. wouldn't have minded the handling fee if they had done something for it, I had to show the kid how the fuel bowser worked

Come to think of it Exeter is nearly as bad, large landing fee and takes all day to fill you up, last time in had to wait for 50 mins.

Now if you are an avgas machine try Dunkeswell, helpful and cheap, believe Jet fuel will be there soon. If I am about come and have a cup of coffee.

[Billywizz]

Being able to pay for your landing fee at the same time as fuel is one big time saver.

Take note TEESIDE & EXETER
It takes way too long to trek half way around the airport, in and out of security checks just to pay land fee. I am probably not the only one who will chose to fill up elsewhere.

[Barnaby the Bear]

I was under the impression that Air BP have put out instructions that no third party could order fuel, because of mix ups with new diesel aircraft. Also that this was nationwide not aerodrome specific.
Besides ATC are usually only able to order when they are not busy with ATC duties. Any orders accepted over the radio could be seen as a bonus. certainly are where I work!
:cool:

[Jonp]

For me,

Cranfield took the biscuit the other day - £29.30 for landing, and over £1.00 per litre for 100LL

I only popped in there for fuel enroute

Wellesbourne at £5 landing fee is great, as is Turweston who are really friendly and drop the landing fee

Keep it up lads

[H Addict]

Plymouth Airport - Slow and bureaucratic, reminiscent of old iron curtain countries. Shame. Would use it a lot more if the anti-flying lobby at the airfield lightened up a bit.

H

[Billywizz]

re; Plymouth

having just gone thro' security to pay the landing fee, I was nearly down to my pants before the scanner allowed me to go thro' the gate to get airside again.

[headsethair]

Yeah. We saw you on the cctv.

[PENNINE BOY]

RE TEESSIDE

Land on stand 12/13 Walk across the taxiway to Northern Aviation Great Club with a great Cafe.

Pay your landing fee in the club house

Request fuel on the way in with ATC and you will have it on arrival.

[Helinut]

Mikeb,

I think your comments about Swansea are out of date, and don't reflect the current situation. I was there last weekend, and had a good experience.

Air Wales don't fly there any more. There are Avgas and Jet A1 bowsers, as well as pumps for both. The hose limits are marked on the tarmac.

The cafe seemed to be OK to me: not gourmet, but £3.65 for a full cooked breakfast, and good coffee. New management I believe.

Friendly guys and ready to refuel as we shut down.

This was on a busy weekend, with lots of other aviation activity going on.

Do be aware that they do parachute jumping there these days. So it is important to be aware of that, expect a short delay and always ask for rotor start.

(Don't know about RR)

Helinut

[AV8.MY.I]

Sorry Guys...

Wolverhampton Business Airport or Wolverhampton Halfpenny Green as it his now (or just ha'penny green as everyone calls it anyway).
No longer offers Rotors Running, they got rid of all the refuelers and now its done by the fire crews. They say they can't do rotors running as they can't hear the alarm bell.
Also they have to stand by for first solo's, get private machines in and out of the hangars and mow the lawns! so if you go in for fuel these days

EXPECT A LONG WAIT!!

Not having a pop at the staff as they're always helpfull, friendly and apologetic if your unduely delayed.

Its the number crunchers that have stuffed it all up :ugh: :ugh: :ugh:

[heli1]

Would agree that Gloucester are good,though the yellow paint trick showing the limit of the refuelling hose would be helpful .
Weston super Mare is good if you want a good all day brekkie and no landing fee other than entry fee to the Helo Museum but currently no fuel unless pre ordered ,and then Avtur only depending on whim of Mr S Tolley esq.However I gather both avgas and avtur may be available soon on a self help and pay basis.