Image help - can you read this number plate?

[Memetic]

Ok image software guru's, a challenge for you.

The two images below were shot from a camera phone through a car windscreen - hence the distortion.

I need to recover the number plate details.

I have a vested interest, I was the (silightly) injured party in a motoring incident, with the proverbial no witnesses, I thought I had memorised the number plate but by the time I had reached the cop shop it had eveporated, these pics had not but as yet I have not figured out how to get a clear view. :*

If anyone takes up the challenge and can figure out the number perhaps PM'ing may be best rather than a public display of possibly innocent index numbers.

The more the merrier - if I get a consensus it would be very useful.

I'll let you know if we achive a "crime watch success" :D

http://www.electrical-parts.co.uk/480D0004.jpg

http://www.electrical-parts.co.uk/480D0005.jpg

In the pic with 2 cars it is the one on the left.

Comments on the exact car model appreciated too, Renault I as far as I got...

[E-Liam]

Hi,

Looks like a Renault 21, which were manufactured between 1986 {D/E} and 1993 {K/L}. if that helps.

_747 _M{or}W_

but that's by eye.. :sad: :)

If you want to email the images I can have a play with them. I don't have anything sophisticated, but phones are up at the 1.3million pixel size now, so I should get something off of them.

Cheers

Liam

[Memetic]

E-Liam

The uploaded images are full size i'm afraid, 640 x 480 is all the p900 can do.

Quite fustrating really, I though i'd been a smarty pants grabbing a couple of photos!

[Diverse]

Can't read the plate sorry, but it does look like a Renault 19 16v, here's a red one to look at.

http://www.asgd79.dsl.pipex.com/19-16v-pic-4.jpg


Total dogs, if you'd followed it for 2 miles it would probably have broken down.

[Memetic]

Shame it did not!

Here, that's funny, I can't read the number plate on the red one either....

[drauk]

Interesting. I can't get much from it with Photoshop (rotate, skew, (un)distort, contrast, adjust channels, enlarge and unsharp mask). I'd love to see what a professional could do with it.

http://www.dsc.net/pprune/plate.jpg

[Memetic]

Hi Drauk,

I too would like to see the reuslts of a professional job on this, just for the satisfacion of knowing somone who thought they got away with something did not - i'm just glad the circumstances did not warrant the police throwing the full forensic skill set at it.

I'm even more convinced having seen your worked up version that the second letter is a V.

Memetic.

[Naples Air Center, Inc.]

Memetic,

You need to give it to one of those Hollywood TV shows. They can get anything off any picture. I bet from that picture they could even turn it 180 degrees and get you the face of the driver. ;)

Sadly in real life, it does not look like there is enough pixels there to get anything off of it. :(

Take Care,

Richard

P.S. With that picture of the car and a partial plate number, they should be able to match something up. :ok:

[timbo04]

I used to work for the police and they use a VODS (vehicle online description search) search faciltiy on PNC - this is a really powerful tool which can be used for searching partial vrm with details of the vehicle.

I remember being told whilst been trained that one of our forces officers had been watching Crime Watch which featured a case where they were searching for a gang that robbed a bank not long after the introduction of this search facility. He got back to work and had a bash at trying to work out the vrm and got a hit using VODS - called the force in question and it turned out they had not tried it yet - red faces all round when they realised he had the right van!!

[Daysleeper]

gotta agree with timbo, I had a tour of the local cop shop a few years ago (community open day thingy) and they showed off the computer. with the car type and colour and only one number/letter they could get the right car in seconds. even without the reg it gives them a list of all the cars of that type and colour regd in a particular area. good place to start some old fashioned knocking on doors.

[FJJP]

And the Police helio camera can zoom in on a number plate and read it from a surprisingly long way away, such is the resolution of modern digitals. They can also access the Police computer system direct from the chopper. Plus they can get ahead of the vehicle, drop lower and get a facial shot of the driver!

In other words, if you are doing something naughty and you see a Police helio, just stop and give up - you don't have a cat-in-hell's chance of getting away!

[Naples Air Center, Inc.]

FJJP,

Nod, by running all you do is tire your self out and piss of the police when they nab you. :eek:

Take Care,

Richard

P.S. Memetic, did you give the police the picture and the partial tag info you had? (Since there are police cameras all around, could the police have the incident on tape?)

[Memetic]

Hi all,

Thanks for the name of the partial plate system. I think I may go back with the extra info, e.g. correct make, best guess at digits and try to persuade them to have a look - mind you this is not exactly a crime watch level incident.

The police know i have the pics, recorded as possible evidence etc., but they said if i can get a number off it the could act - I expect having glanced at the image on the phone the officer thought that there was little chance of getting an index number.

I asked about cctv but the local system apparently does not cover the road the incident happened on. I was even hoping for a speed camera flash for as we passed while i tried to keep this guy in sight and memorise the number - he was going fast enough that he should have triggered one, but no luck, not a flash in sight and we passed two cameras in a short stretch of road before I turned off for the police station.

Memetic

[Naples Air Center, Inc.]

Memetic,

Fingers crossed. I hope you get him.

One other option, if the Police are unwilling to help, a picture and a partial plate should be enough for a Private Eye to find out the identity for you. ;)

Take Care,

Richard

[Windle Poons]

Memetic,

I have run the images by someone I know, who works for the same organisation as me and who is what you might call, "a professional."

He has had a look at them and done some playing around, but his initial observation is that there is insufficient information to enhance using any of the software he has for the following reasons. The index plate on the vehicle in image 1 is approximately 25 pixels across and it would be impossible to obtain a number from this. On image 2 the index is approximately 65-70 pixels wide, and whilst this might under other circumstances be sufficient to make an enhancement, and get an index with 60 to 80 percent accuracy, because the image is distorted in perspective and clarity by the glass of your windscreen he reckons that it won't be possible with that one either. He added that the FBI are generally reckoned to be the best in recognition of this kind, but didn't think they'd oblige in this instant! :hmm: I have hit him on your behalf.

As far as VODS is concerned, I agree with timbo04 that this is the best option if the local force will oblige. The more of the partial index you remember the better (fewer hits), although using a geographical area aswell, is only advisable if you have information to suggest that it was from a particular area. If you limit the search you may miss the correct vehicle. Much better to search widely with the part of the registration you have and then start with the local hits. Another problem is that unless there is going to be other corroborating evidence to confirm that it is the correct vehicle, eg. damage marks etc., even finding the vehicle from a VODS search is highly unlikely to be sufficient to take matters further.

Some, but not all, forces have a local intelligence system that will do a partial index search aswell. This covers vehicles that have come to their attention for one reason or another, and if the offender in this case has got previous, then they may have it on their system.

You could also contact the DVLA direct, who will provide information for a fee (at least they used to), but I don't know if they would do a VODS search or similar from a private enquiry.

Good luck....

WP. :ok:

[Memetic]

...65-70 pixels wide, and whilst this might under other circumstances be sufficient to make an enhancement, and get an index with 60 to 80 percent accuracy...

So near and yet so far!

I really can't remember the number, so I think I will have to let this drop, unless I spot the car and recognise the driver - stranger things have happened. If I go back to the police with such sketchy (non) information I will be wasting thier time. :(

Still I have learned a few things along the way - not least of which I always drive with your doors locked... :ooh:


Thanks everyone.

[Naples Air Center, Inc.]

Memetic,

Sorry to hear you will not be able to do something about it.

Just a thought, file a report at the police station along with the pictures.

Just keep an eye out for the car, should you ever see it again, then get the plate, then go back to the police station.

Second choice is to get a Private Investigator to get you a list of all the cars in that area that meet the description and you could go to their place of residence until you find the car. (It all depends on how badly you have been wronged, how far you want to pursue this.)

Take Care,

Richard