Air NZ to replace its Saab fleet

[Wirraway]

Stuff.nz

Air NZ to replace its Saab fleet
28 September 2004
By ROELAND VAN DEN BERGH

Air New Zealand is planning to replace its fleet of 17 Saab 340A turbo-prop aircraft at a potential cost of $180 million.

The 33-seat Saabs fly mainly on provincial routes and are operated by Air New Zealand subsidiary Air Nelson.

Air New Zealand spokesman Glen Sowry said the board was briefed on a replacement aircraft last week and approved negotiations with a single vendor after three manufacturers submitted to the airline in recent months.

"There is one vendor that we are actively negotiating with," Mr Sowry said.

He would not say who the competing manufacturers were. The existing fleet has an average age of about 16 years.

Any new aircraft would be more efficient to run and have lower maintenance requirements than the old ones, Mr Sowry said.

Of the 17 aircraft, Air New Zealand owned 10 and leased the remainder.

AdvertisementAdvertisementThe fleet purchase would not require additional capital raising, Mr Sowry said. Air New Zealand has more than $1 billion in cash reserves.

An industry source said the most logical replacement was the improved 340B Saab version, which was popular with regional operators in Australia.

However, Saab stopped building this model in 1998, though the Swedish manufacturer could be persuaded to open a production run for 17 aircraft at an estimated US$7 million each.

Another option would be for Air New Zealand to buy second-hand 340Bs and restore them to as-new condition, a process known as zero timing.

This was a cheaper option, with the aircraft costing between US$4 million and US$5 million each, plus the cost of restoration, the source said.

Sticking with Saab would also mean less retraining for engineers and pilots.

Air New Zealand is also buying 15 Airbus A320 jets for its short-haul international services.

In June it agreed to buy right new Boeing 777-200ER long-haul jets and two Boeing 7E7s.

Its domestic Boeing 737-300 fleet is likely to be replaced with Airbus A319s for which Air New Zealand has purchase rights.

========================================

[Cloud Cutter]

potential cost of $180 million

Hmmm, even if Saab agree to churn out 17 new 340B+s at $7m each, where is the remaining $60m going? Also I assume the 10 Saabs owned have some residual value which would further seperate these figures.

Am I missing something or has the 'industry source' ignored the simple maths? This seems to be the strongest indication yet of aircraft other than Saabs. Of course if the estimated cost is in $NZ this all goes out the window.:=

[romansandal]

Maybe this post should come under the heading
"Air Nelsons Future - Part IIIIIIIIIIIIIIII"

[Plas Teek]

Shouldn't that be XVI ? :8

Believe it when they're on the gate..

[belowMDA]

Would this "industry source" be that idiot Les Bloxham? I don't think I have heard one accurate word escape his mouth on anything concerning aviation.
The ONLY benefit in getting the 340B over the Q300/ATR42 is reduced training costs, which would only be a one off saving due to the fact that whichever new aircraft (Q300/ATR) they aquire will come with a simulator so no more sending crews to Melbourne. The Dash and ATR would be cheaper to run thanks to their more efficient engines and substantially lower maintenance costs. This would far outweigh any benefits in reduced training costs. The 33 seat limit of the saab is starting to cost the company money in lost revenue due to the fact that flights are booked out and the pax are looking elsewhere for flights.
The fact that the figure of 180 million is being used says to me that they are going to be purchasing a new fleet and using the sale of the saabs they own to offset the aquisition costs.

[MOR]

Hmmm, even if Saab agree to churn out 17 new 340B+s at $7m each, where is the remaining $60m going?

Simple math:

US$6Mill = NZ$10,449,800 x 17 =177,646,600

NZ$180,000,000 - NZ$177,646,600 = NZ$2353400

That 2.3534 million would represent a (small) spares stockholding.

Hmmm, suddenly looks very possible, doesn't it... ;)

The fact that the figure of 180 million is being used says to me that they are going to be purchasing a new fleet and using the sale of the saabs they own to offset the aquisition costs.

No it doesn't, if anything it makes the Saabs look more likely, see figures above.

BTW the doggy old 340A's are worth very little, and that is assuming you can get rid of them - and as there are plenty for sale out there, that looks like being a problem in itself.

Of course it is quite possible Saab coult take them back and remanufacture them as part of the deal (which lends even more weight to the Saab argument).

Having said all that... doubt it will be Saabs.

[grdproxinop]

Monday the 11th is the day, At Air Nelson's main base in Nelson at 1045am in the main hangar.

Ralph Norris, John Palmer are to announce the fleet replacement, press have been invited.

I am still going with the Dash 8-300.

[DeltaT]

Don't s'pose you've heard the one about Boeing making an offer to buy all the A320s off Air NZ and give them a good deal on 737-800 plus 1 for free?!

[Cloud Cutter]

He he, I wish. Don't think it'll happen (738s), but we can dream:D

Who's taking bet's on next release date after the 11th is postphoned:rolleyes:

What's happening with recruitment? Aren't some of the Feb/March ground coursed pilots still waiting, what's the story!? Still interviews in November?

Are Air Nelson loosing pilots at a much lesser rate than Eagle, or is there some other factor?

[BrianCat]

Gimme a 3,
gimme a 2,
gimme an 8!!

Waddya get???

;)

[Pimp Daddy]

Gimme a 3,
gimme a 2,
gimme an 8!!

Waddya get???

13?

Dash 8s would be nice, but seems strange they would go that route when there are already ATR 72s in the company..........

Unless the ATR72s are going too for some Dash 8-400s? :ooh:

[ZK-NSJ]

ive heard from sources within air nz engineering that the atr's are hanger queens,

[belowMDA]

How about this for an idea. Eagle operating Q200s (should go everywhere the 1900 does and at worst slightly payload restricted at places like WR.) Air Nelson operating Q300s and Chook operating Q400s. Hmm one great big pool of spares, engineering expertise, and pilots. Take this to the logical conclusion and you merge them all into one big happy;) ? family! it has to happen sooner or later. Seeing the link airlines make the bulk of Air NZs profits I am sure they will look to increase this further as the squeeze comes on their international operation.
Aparently there was a memo floating around eagle the other day more or less saying the 1900 is too small now.

[ZFT]

ZK-NSJ

<<ive heard from sources within air nz engineering that the atr's are hanger queens,>>

So why are they about to take delivery of yet another 72-500 this month (11th I think)?

[Massey Pro]

My money (well the governments) is on the Dash 8!!
It will be good too... here at Massey we are trained to a standard well beyond the turboprop world but I think most of the other pro's here are a bit out of touch with reality thinking you can get out of Massey and straight into a jet...... not me though, I'm gonna do the hard yards like everyone else. I graduate shortly with over 200 hours and lots of multi engine two crew experience so will ring Air Nelson and go down for an interview... I think the Dash 8 will be a good stepping stone after Massey to fill the gap to get into a jet. Six months at Air Nelson should be sufficient then will probably go to Air New Zealand.

[Cloud Cutter]

;), one of the less subtle wind-ups I've seen. Go Massey!!!

[splat72]

So if the option is the Dash will they be looking for crews as with over 1000 hrs left seat time in the Dash 8 this old Mot boy is keen to get back to the western side of Tasman Bay.:ok:

[flying ginge]

A good tip for your upcoming interview(s) Mr/Ms Massey Prostitute is to demonstrate your ability to replicate autopilot noises often heard in the background on the R/T. That'll REALLY impress them. Give them a "bing bong" and you'll be in:p

[1279shp]

Was at the BIG HQ today - don't ask - and spied for a nano-second in the office behind the office I was in - as one of the gentlemen in the meeting came from said office - a logo'd desk model of......the Dash 8!

It luckily wasn't spied that I'd spied it. Though I guess now the spies will prob now that I did spy it.

Was it just a pretty desk model for an exec, or a model future?
:hmm: :suspect:

[Massey Pro]

A good tip for your upcoming interview(s) Mr/Ms Massey Prostitute is to demonstrate your ability to replicate autopilot noises often heard in the background on the R/T

I don't need to do that but thanks for the advice. I'm from Massey, we have a reputation that will be shine through while I'm down for my interview. I'm going to go down in my Massey uniform just so they know where I did my training... Although since it will only be an interview for a turboprop and we're trained for jet's, maybe I shouldn't wear my uniform... Any suggestions anyone??

And as for...
Mr/Ms Massey Prostitute
It is Mr thank you... and it's not Prostitute... Just Pro... short for Professional. Although while out on the town when I pull out my pilots licence, that does do wonders, the ladys love it and can't keep away... I tend not to charge for my services so that would count me out as a Prostitute.

[haughtney1]

I remember flying with a massey "instructor", a B cat if memory serves...well he was all confidence and swagger...until showed him that he didnt know all there was to know (and not that I know a great deal either), now as far as I recall he has gone onto bend at least one airframe..taxiing into an apron light.

I wonder if when you put the Messy..err Massey uniform on...you have to suck in your tummy..and push out your chest?..ahhh the fun we had discussing dew points........:p

[Eurocap]

Massey,

Carry on with the mode that you have been displaying on this forum at your interviews and you'll be first out on the line.

The line for egotistical swelled head buffoons that want to be airline jet pilots that will never be selected no matter what.

What you on bro. Its time you took some humbling medicine.

Massey is just another school thats pumping out guys/gals with licences along with all the others. Think about it. What you have may get you an interview but its how you display yourself against all the others applying for the position that gets you the job.

[Massey Pro]

Eurocap... So you're saying that I shouldn't wear my Massey uniform to the interview??

[MOR]

Don't listen to him Massey, of course you should wear your uniform.

Don't forget to wear your gold bars either.

A good tip here is to buy an extra set and cut one of them up, then you can have six stripes either side. This not only impresses the airlines no end, who should really promote you to fleet manager immediately, but is great for pulling the birds who will think that you are an Admiral.

I also have an old hat you could borrow, it even has scrambled eggs on the brim. That should polish up nicely. Airlines love to see a nice hat on their interviewees, it tells them that you really are a professional.

Finally, try and have a copy of "Handling The Big Jets" in your bag, and "accidentally" let it fall out during the interview. This will tell you interviewer that you are ready for their very biggest jet.

The best of luck to you old bean, but of course you really won't need luck as the quality of Massey students is well-known in the airline industry.

And finally, I am a little disappointed that you are prepared to contemplate flying a turboprop, which is clearly an aircraft unable to challenge your flying skills. Might I suggest that you tell them you will only fly the jets, as props are for boats. Everybody knows that.

:ok:

[Massey Pro]

MOR... In regards to the gold bars... I can't believe I haven't thought of that already... Thanks very much for the tip, I'll keep it in mind.
I have read Handling the Big Jets, but to be honest it's not all that good, the material that we have here at Massey is a whole lot better...

I am a little disappointed that you are prepared to contemplate flying a turboprop

Well as I stated earlier... I'm not out of touch with reality like many here at Massey... they all think they can go straight into a jet... Not me though... I believe in doing the hard work to get there... hence why I was thinking three to six months on a turboprop at Air Nelson or Mount Cook would be good before I go into Air New Zealand.

[Cloud Cutter]

Eurocap

I think you have been had, ol' son :O ;)

[MeatHunter]

Nice wind up Massey Pro. You have really got a few going.However if you are for real I know where there is a good job going teaching kids to fly kites.You appear to be suitably qualified

[Massey Pro]

MeatHead... Yes I am for real... why wouldn't I be... I'm not really interested in teaching kids to fly kites thanks. I couldn't see how a position like that could fill my salary expectations... (I require over the $100,000 mark initially)
Thanks for the thought but I think that kite flying is not my thing... and kids kind of get to me.
I just think I'll stick to my original plan...

[splatgothebugs]

Massey pro

You have to be the funniest bugger I've read on this forum for a bloody long time:)

even if you are serious its still bloody funny:p

splat:ok:

[NoseGear]

GO the pro, bro:p

Agree with you 100 percent splat, well written half truths!!:E

Nosey

[Massey Pro]

Splatgoesyourbrains... NoseGearCollapsedBlamedSomeoneElse

Thanks for your comments there guys but I'm not trying to be funny here... I'm just deciding on what my next carreer step is going to be... As I stated earlier I have over 200hrs and lots of Two Crew Multi Time and am about to Graduate from Massey. I just basically think that getting into a jet at this time... although it is a possibility, probably will not happen. (Some people here are absolute dreamers in my books) hence my interest in either gaining a direct command at Eagle or a Co position on Air Nelson. (of course with the requirement that I go straight onto the Dash 8) My pay will also of course have to be reviewed straight away...
Does anyone have a list of interview questions they would like to share?? Or any tip's?? Any help is really appreciated. AS IF I NEED IT!!

One last question... Those airport ID cards... Can they be used as Identification to get into bars and stuff?? My pilots licence does not have a photo so every time I pull it out to the bouncer I have to produce photo ID anyway... Maybe something that needs to be changed?? And I have also had more than one girl not believe that I'm a pilot, even after showing them the licence... So I think this could be an issue that needs addressing.

[MOR]

I'm just deciding on what my next carreer step is going to be...

Well, perhaps your first step should be to learn how to spell the word "career". Impresses airline managers no end, as it leads to other important words, such as "salary".

I have also had more than one girl not believe that I'm a pilot

You aren't, yet.... :}

[Massey Pro]

MOR... I said I was a Massey student... I didn't say I was a particularly bright one!! Even impressed myself when I looked up in my oversized ozford 'pocket' dictionary (how one of those fit's into anyones pockets really puzzles me) to find out that I had actually spelt salary correctly.... You had me a little worried.

Big announcement tomorrow aye.... Dash 8.... With regards to when I start there... Will they bond me for my training at all?? I'd assume they do... I only want to be there for a few months so how do I go about leaving after a couple of months?? Could I just tack the remaining bond money onto my student loan??

[Luke SkyToddler]

Alright Massey man you've made your point, and it was quite a funny joke for the first couple of posts, yes it's good to take the p i s s out of Massey but to be honest it's dragged on a bit now, and since you've totally hijacked the other NSN thread as well, it's kind of boring to be honest for those of us who are actually airline people looking for some gen about NSN, keep clicking on the thread and it's just all this Massey b@ll@cks.

Yes we all know that Massey is the big evil empire whose only mission is taking vast amounts of money off of hordes of clueless talentless muppets whose biggest career choice on graduation is going to be Mcdonalds vs Burger King. (Although I reckon there are certain other flying schools who've stepped up the level of hype in their marketing to near Massey levels recently, maybe the govt gravy train is about to derail :ok: )

The point is, that everyone who's not a part of Massey already knows that, so can we now move on pleeeaaasssseeeee :rolleyes: Can we at least have one thread for taking the p i s s out of non related GA things like Massey, and one for actually discussing NSN rumours?

Can anyone actually tell us anything new about NSN here, I've lost track of it in all the Massey-ha-ha stuff, is it still definitely Monday they announce the fleet thing?

[Swamp Donkey]

Nah - let's keep bagging Massey.....it never stops being funny!

[Massey Pro]

yes it's good to take the p i s s out of Massey but to be honest it's dragged on a bit now

Who said I was taking the p i s s out of Massey?? I have only taken the p i s s out of the Massey students that are totally out of touch with reality.

The reason that you will find nothing about Air Nelson recently is because.... Nothing new has happened for the last two months!!! Yes fleet announcement today... 1045 from other posts a week ago... As luck has it I will be busy for a while with upcoming tests and things the like, so this can go back to a pure Air Nelson thread... I'll let you all know how my interview goes, and keep you updated on my Dash 8 sim training scedule...