Aer Lingus B777's

[Flame]

Rumours are starting to circulate at Dublin that EI have 1 possibly 2 B777's ready to be put into service out of Dublin on a wet lease basis, anyone know anything about this

[akerosid]

Didn't we have this rumour a few weeks back and the response was "until we see them in the flesh (so to speak), let's not say anymore"?

It would not surprise me, that said. Boeing is clearly aware of the potential for Aer Lingus to grow on t/a routes and wants to be the provider of its aircraft to facilitate this growth (including 777s). The A330-300s have served it well, but aren't really good for much more than west coast flights.

The wet lease aspect won't please IALPA, unless these crews are part of the training team.

[Porky Speedpig]

How much further do they want to go than the west coast...Hawaii?

[CaptJ]

Dunno where they are going to find the bums for the seats.

A 777 is too big for anything they are likely to fly with the exception of NY.

If Aer Lingus mishandle the development of feeder links from UK mainland in the drive to become a LoCo, they will have problems filling the existing A330s.
With Continental gradually rolling out direct flights from UK local airports the scope for UK feeder traffic seems rather limited.

They might be better off putting on a A330-200 BFS-JFK/EWR. Before someone else does!

Quite apart from the fact the the A330 is a far superior aircrft from a passenger perspective. At least you can hear the IFE on a A330.

[CaptJ]

BFS-EWR

Looks like its going ahead!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/em/fr/-/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/3695516.stm

And routes from Belfast don't have to stop at SNN.

Also today we hear that emirates are looking to fly from DUB, so more competion for poor old Aer Lingus.

CaptJ

[CCR]

Glad to see that Continental are considering Belfast as their 3rd destination in Ireland. Don't know why Aer Lingus have not restarted Transatlantic flights from Belfast already since their transtalantic flights are always very busy. Since they are now going to begin flights from Dublin to Orlando on a "charter" basis, it shouldn't be too long before they do flights from Cork to the US on a "charter" basis to get around the outdated bilateral.

[akerosid]

IFE, CaptJ? This is Willie's new Aer Lingus we're talking about!

That said, I've always found the 777 to be a thoroughly comfortable aircraft and most pax surveys favour it over the 330.

As for cost, I would imagine that any EI deal to take on 777s would be part of its overall fleet plan for transatlantic flights, which would see the 777s taking over from 330-300s and operating as a stopgap until the 7E7s are available.

There are actually very few widebodies available for lease on a short term basis - one A330-200 and one A340. And around 7 parked UAL 777s, which I'm assuming would be the aircraft EI would take, if they were to take any at all.

[CaptJ]

BFS-EWR

Looks like its going ahead!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/em/fr/-/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/3695516.stm

And routes from Belfast don't have to stop at SNN.

Also today we hear that emirates are looking to fly from DUB, so more competion for poor old Aer Lingus.

CaptJ

[Flame]

Gentlemen;

I understand that FLS at DUB who handle maint. for EI currently are receiving 777 manuals.

DUB-CPT is the route that I heard the 777 will be used on a wet lease basis, thus getting Willie over the thorny issue of crew rest in SA.

As for feder traffic into DUB for the TransAtlantic, I know its very big at the moment, but with the total "LoCostiness" of EI on the horizon, surely the yield will be very low. The company is going to implement a point to point strategy, so how this augurs for UK pax feeding into DUB is beyond me

Lat week I was travelling with AF to CDG from DUB, and the check in agent told me, that they are seeing a large increase in PAX travelling to European destinations who normally would travel with EI in Premier. But with EI dropping the Premier service on most European routes, PAX who are having their tickets in business paid by their company are now opting to fly out of Dublin with carriers that have a proper business class service

[irishcc]

from another Website...

DXB to be announced on Friday..

I have just finished a lengthy meeting with my EK sales rep this is what I have news wise!

5 more schedules to be added to the u.k / Ireland by nov05

BHX double daily is almost definitely to be announced on Friday then we will go back to the A330 in march (subject to confirmation on x2 service)

EDI WILL commence by summer05! This is a definite! But no double daily yet for GLA

MAN will go to three per day from summer schedule 05

DUB will be announced for start next summer, this has been brought forward by almost 2 years!

SYD is going double daily and it is likely to be via SIN not CMB or direct! As some have mentioned

China is being looked into for both CAN & PEK, PEK is high on the list!

One interesting subject that was brought up is NCL ........ Its being looked into! As we speak! So watch this space, don't expect anything this year but maybe end of next year!

[akerosid]

I saw the above post on Airliners.net; consistent with the report earlier in the thread, further to reports in yesterday's Irish Times. Looks like things are really moving. However, I wonder how EI will greet news of a competitor (particularly a better one) muscling in on its market - particularly on routes it wanted to develop. Make no mistake, EK will be aggressive and it will make it difficult for EI to develop its long haul routes.

As for Aer Lingus, if it does get 777s, these would be ex-UAL aircraft, which presumably would have crew bunks, so why the need for wet-leasing - can't they just convert their own crews?

Incidentally, I saw the following on one of the yahoo groups - it looks as if EI is being very aggressive in its north American sales; slashing Business Class costs. This surprises me, because I thought they were trying to focus on Economy Class. Presumably WW understands that a good J class service is a good revenue booster:

In a breakthrough among international airlines, Ireland's major carrier
> announced Monday that it is adopting a low-fare formula for trans-Atlantic
service.
> In a bid to attract more business travelers, Aer Lingus is the first
> established airline to apply pricing strategies of discounters such as
Southwest and
> America West to trans-Atlantic travel.
> "In terms of trying to simplify international airfares, that has never
been
> done," says Denver-based industry consultant Michael Boyd.
> The Aer Lingus plan:
> • Cap one-way, unrestricted coach fares — tickets typically bought by
> business travelers — at $503 each way from any of the five cities it
serves in the
> USA to Ireland. Round-trip purchase is not required. Previously, the same
fares
> ran as high as $838.
> • Simplify charges by throwing out the requirement for a Saturday-night
stay
> for the lowest available fare.
> • Reduce business-class fares by as much as 60%. The price of an
unrestricted
> ticket in business class from Los Angeles to Dublin falls to $1,504 from
> $3,695 each way. From New York, it will go to $1,304 from $2,272 .
> Having cut costs to wage a war against Ryanair and other low-cost airlines
in
> Europe, Aer Lingus said it was ready to take the next step.
> The airline "realized what's happening here (in the USA) and the
> intra-European market will eventually migrate to the Atlantic," said Aer
Lingus executive
> Jack Foley. "We wanted to position ourselves to recognize that migration."
> Tom Parsons, publisher of BestFares.com, says Aer Lingus is betting that
its
> small size could insulate it from retaliatory moves by bigger airlines
that
> could match its fares.
> As "the smallest kid on the block," Parsons says, "maybe the other
carriers
> will close their eyes, see no evil, and say, 'Let them do what they want
to
> do.' "
> Aer Lingus serves Ireland with 47 flights weekly from New York, Boston,
> Chicago, Los Angeles and seasonal service from Baltimore. The
trans-Atlantic fare
> discounts can be combined with flights to 40 European destinations.

You can't say EI lacks vision; it's positioning itself very well for the future. Now, hopefully once the election is out of the way, the EU/US bilateral can finally be sorted out.

[CarbHeatIn]

UA's Internationlly configured (3 Cabin) 772s do not have Crew Bunks. Seat 3A- a First Class "Suite"- can be curtained off and is used for crew rest.

UA's Domestic (2 Cabin) 772s do not have any crew rest facilities. This was a sticking point with Unions when UA wanted to reintroduce ORD-HNL non-stop. Not sure how they got around it in the end.

Obviously, how the aircraft is configured is up to the operator. Unlike UA, EI only offers two cabin accomodation across the pond so UA's first class beds (and crew accomodation) will come out.

[Human Factor]

So BA aren't the only ones with no crew rest on most of their 777s then....

[FreeSpeed]

irishcc

from what website did you get the announcements of the EK flights??

[Flame]

"Presumably WW understands that a good J class service is a good revenue booster"

Has anyone travelled as a fare paying PAX in Business class, on EI Transatlantic lately (over the past 4/5 months), I generally never use this kind of language....but its a b****y disgrace, appalling does not even come close

[Call_Belle]

Perhaps, Flame, you could enlighten us as to why you think EI's business class is such a disgrace?

[Flame]

Call_belle

A number of issues..

On a recent flight to LAX, the "senior" comes over to my seat and proceeds to put 2 sticks with various pieces of fried chicken etc etc on my plate, not a big deal I hear you say, but then when she went behind the curtain, after serving the other pax in "J",I heard her say..Look at what I managed to keep for us. This is in contrast to the norm, up to about 12 months ago, when the senior, presented these "Nibbles" (my term) and the pax helped themselves.

On the same flight to LAX, only a choice of one red wine or one white wine was available.

2 weeks later, travelling from BOS-DUB, there were no Irish Newspapers available, and it was the same in the lounge in BOS. This has happened more than once. On another BOS-DUB up front, I saw a couple sitting side by side. The male went down the back and after a few minutes he came back, his daughter was with him, and she was asking "mom" about where she would meet her on arrival if they missed each other, the child looked about 17, obviously the child was in economy and the parents in business. Before the mother could even answer the childs question, one of the crew in a most abrupt manner told the parents that the child could not "visit" them in the business section. Although in a way I can understand what she was saying, the family were very quiet, disturbing no one, but the crew member was quite arrogant and made the family feel very small

It is my experience, that a lot of EI cabin crew treat pax as an irritant and spend far too much time, behind the curtain rather than looking after people. On the same BOS-DUB with the family on..I rang the call bell about 90 minutes before arring in DUB and after 20 minutes, I was asked "what do I want". I was looking for water, and it was almost thrown at me

I could go on and on, but this reckless attitude to passengers appears to have crept into EI, over the past year or two at very most. I travel extensively and never ever get the same tratment anywhere else

To finish, I do not wish to appear to be painting all EI crews with the same brush, problem is though, there are a lot of crew , mostly those with long service, who treat pax with contemt and a certain amount of arrogance

I fly also a lot with BA, and in my opinion, they are probably the best around

Sorry for going on, but you did ask..over to you

[irishcc]

FreeSpeed...

...it is on airliners.net...

I will post the link later..

[Irishguy]

EI are to start a chartered service from Dublin direct to Orlando, Fl, starting this Winter, maybe the B777s will be used on this route?

The route is starting 2nd December, coincides with the stoppage of Dublin to Washington/Baltimore on 1st December.

[mikekilo]

The new route is definately being operated by their A330-200;

From their website;

Operating an A330-200, the airline has capacity to carry 275 passengers on its three times a week service from Dublin to McCoy International Airport in Orlando. Days of operation are Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays.

http://www.aerlingus.com/cgi-bin/obel01im1/Corporate/display_news.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@1604111462.1096471696@@@@&BV_EngineID=cccfadcmjhigikjcefecfigdffgdfkg.0&P_OID=-8049&Category=0&NEWS_OID=536884094

[Call_Belle]

Flame,
Fair comments. Was just wondering what ur experiences were. Whether it was unhappiness with the product or the service or a mix of both. Asked out of curiosity, nothing else.
Calle_belle

[akerosid]

With Emirates due to announce its new DUB service tomorrow (if reports are to be believed), EI will have to make a decision about its service product if it's to go into this market at all. EK is a much better airline than EI from this viewpoint and its aggressive marketing and presence in many new markets will make life difficult for EI, regardless of its service product. However, if EI chooses to go into this market with a poor - or no frills - service product, it will be cut to pieces.

Yields are low on these routes and there is an immense amount of choice. A carrier with a poor service reputation will get a bad name very quickly and this makes it very difficult to attract high revenue pax. For example, if I have £300 to spend and want to travel to Asia, I might well fly EI, but EI can't sell all its seats at this cost; if it charges, say, £500+, people will look elsewhere.

But, back to the title of this thread: what is the story about these 777s? I guess we'll really have to wait until the airline announces its new fleet plan - and that won't happen before the govt sub-cttee has announced its plans for the airline's future.

Interesting times ahead ...

[FreeSpeed]

So far no news in the national press of any announcements of EK to Dub, anybody know anything different???