How many been to interview with app 250hrs??

[Tufve]

Hey!
I have applied to about 50 airlines, taxi company etc etc and I haven't been accepted to any interview yet..:confused:
It truly sucks!
I have 225hrs total flight 40hrs mult, fATPL, MCC, Ab-initio...bla bla bla!

Is there anyone that have reached all the way to the interview with this experience or is my CV :mad: as :mad: ?!

best regards anyway!

[OBK!]

Out of interest what's your age? working experience etc?

Everyone has at least 200hrs and a frozen ATPL, it's more important what the individuals attributes are that counts.

[flaps to 60]

Tufve

I've said it before and i'll say it again the only way to get a job at the moment is to know someone in your target airline. Because there are more pilots than jobs CP want to be sure that the person will fit in rather than what exeprience you have.

At one pilot conference it was the "Good Egg" that they were after and if you've got a mate on the inside saying your the finest organic egg going then you stand a chance.

Get to know some people who can help you and keep on at them until your in the RHS it worked for me.

Good luck keep yourself current (preferably as an instructor) and dont give up.

[Puritan]

Some words of advice (hopefully) to wannabes at all levels …..

1). Jobs versus experience.

Empirically there are, at present, more pilots (please select which of the following categories you fall in to) with: The Basic fATPL (it being the very least one needs to have prior to being able to apply for employment).
Low hours per se and/or a modest number of hours on a type that is not pertinent to airline operations.
A jet type-rating but little or no experience on type.than there are jobs.

Aviation is somewhat of a cyclic business (with peaks & troughs typically every seven years) though quite where we are now is very much subject to crystal ball gazing and tealeaf reading.


2). Making applications.

Applying for employment as a pilot does not entitle one to a reply, and certainly not if you application was unsolicited, i.e. the airline has not advertised for applications, you just thought you’d send one in anyway on the off chance.

Replying to the hundreds, and/or thousands, of applications takes time and requires that somebody is assigned to the task and, ergo, that costs money; and airlines hate (neigh, loathe) spending money, unless they absolutely have to.

Do not feel diss’d just because you don’t get a reply to your CV from an airline that is not recruiting.


3). Who you know.

Having a friend who works within an airline is perhaps the best way to move your CV to the top of the pile.

That’s not to say that not knowing anybody makes it impossible – it just makes it harder.

Remember also that this is perhaps the biggest and hardest ‘old boys (&girls) club’ that it’s possible to join – indeed it’s probably easier to join the Masons/Lodge.


4). Keeping current.

Keeping current is important, but however that does not mean hiring a C150 from your local flying club and doing a few half-hearted aerobatics and/or a trip down the coast for an hour or so.

Needless to say (but I will) if you are not regularly practicing the privileges of your IR your instrument flying skills will soon get rusty and, when one does finally get a break, you can be pretty sure that an airline assessment will involve a sim check. :eek:

To stand any chance in a simulator assessment you’d be well advised to have spent time keeping your instrument scan up-to-speed as well as continuing to develop your skills (both piloting & CRM/multi-crew).

So, rather than spend a couple of hundred £$€’s hiring the proverbial spam-can, why not get together with your mates and hire a proper/real jet simulator (there are, I’m sure, plenty of PPRuNer pro-pilots who would be willing to help drive the sim panel for you).

Indeed, many moons ago, ‘Raw Data’ used to do just this (using the Trident sim up at Biggin Hill) wherein many of the people he helped are now gainfully employed & seasoned jet airline pilots.


5). Whether or not to buy a type rating?

Just remember, and say after me..... ”THERE ARE NO GUARANTEES WITH ANY OF IT!”


6). CV’s.

When you write a CV remember that we already know the following about you: You were born
You have a name
You probably live somewhere
Your piloting experience and ratings fit anywhere between having the a fresh off the press fATPL and/or low hours and/or a modest number of hours on a type that is not pertinent to airline operations, and/or a jet type-rating but little or no experience on type.
You’ll tell us that you’d make a super employee and will sell your soul to the devil to work for XYZ airline (you’ve got to sell your soul as that’s all you’ve got left after paying for all your training)
etcNow, and I’m sorry to be the bearer of bad news if you don’t already know this, there are hundreds of folk out there who fit a similar description to the above, and who are chasing the same job as yourself.

So, you need something that will levitate your CV to the top of the pile (not withstanding any mates who already work within your targeted airline) – certainly so when you think that your present flying background and/or your ratings are not going to be of all that much interest to a bloke reading it (somebody who is probably a TRI/TRE/RETRE/etc with several thousand hours in his logbook).

You have to ask yourself “If I can’t differentiate my flying experience” (because that is what everybody else I’m competing with has too) “then what is it that I can do to promote myself?”…. if you can crack that then you’ve got it cracked! :ok:

Lastly on CV's, if you're using a mail-merge program then for gawds sake make sure that the Chief Pilots name is correct w.r.t. the airline you're applying to (go figure!), and you'd also be advised to keep your CV short (1 page is usually enough)!


7). At the end of the day.

There’s a lot of truth when people say that you should hang-on and don’t give up – wherein for many it was dogged termination, coupled with perseverance and staying power that saved their day.

However, on the flip-side, the harsh reality is that some people will never attain their ambition of becoming an airline pilot.

They will have spent their money (more than likely a lot of it too), they will have done the hard work and all the courses, they will have passed all the exams – they’re probably very creditable pilots – but that lucky break just does not come their way. :{

Nb. This is something that the training industry – from the bottom and upwards – are loathe to broadcast as, I’m sure you’ll understand, it’s bad for business. But it is, nonetheless, true. :uhoh:

So, might I invite one and all to remember some of the above points when you’re being tempted to purchase those rose-tinted glasses, you know the ones, they’re inscribed ‘You too can be an airline pilot… just sign here!’ :E


Finally, and all together now.....: ”THERE ARE NO GUARANTEES WITH ANY OF IT!”

[checks-complete]

Blimey. Well said ! :uhoh:

[easyswimmer]

A very wise ex raf navigator once told a ground school class at cabair who were frustrated at not being able to get 75% in the lead up to their exams "the thing you really need to know about aviation...is when it starts going wrong, you sadly cant give up and go home"

I have been staggered that more people are not doing as suggested above and hiring 737 sims. I got 8 hours 737 200 sim in dublin with a training captain for about the hourly hire price of a twin. And no, i am not going to tell you who and where...I had to find it out and and guess what...? suddenly I knew a bloke who worked for an airline...who had a mate who worked in an airline that was recruiting, who i bought a beer, who got me an interview, which i passed and got a job. Edited for effect, but dont go thinking it is impossible to make contacts in an airline.

Remember, contary to what your mum tells you, you aint special and you dont deserve anything. You got what you deserved after studying for all those exams and now you have a little blue book.... put the same effort into getting an interview as you did in the exams and maybe you will deserve an interview.

Then, you maybe offered a job but you have to pass the type rating (which I found harder than the IR) to prove you deserve a paid job.

Is anyone with me?

[flaps to 60]

Remember, contary to what your mum tells you, you aint special and you dont deserve anything. You got what you deserved after studying for all those exams and now you have a little blue book.... put the same effort into getting an interview as you did in the exams and maybe you will deserve an interview
Oh so very true except i would advise to double it.

Canr disagree with anything that Puritan has said ....good advice except to say DONT GIVE UP!

Good luck

[skyman68]

yes it sucks, it can take years before you get a job, and even, it is not sure l that in 5-10 years you get a job.
Most companies want first officers with 1000-1500 hours on jet and must be current. Even if you find a plane and fly for 6 months, it is not a jet. The best way for you would be to log jet time by renting a jet, it is what airline want. yes! you can't rent a jet? well, welcome in the club of unemployed pilot. There is nothing you can really do outside of paying more money for a FI license, or a type rating or rent in the USA and log some hours...

good luck!

[Pilot Pete]

Just felt I would like to add my vote for Puritan's comments. Many wise and true words were imparted there and anyone looking (or about to qualify and start looking) for their 'first break' would do well to read and take on board those comments.

It is not impossible with 250hrs to get interviews and jobs. Indeed, in a strange twist from years back, low houred (with a 'commensurate' age) pilots are probably more in favour now than the 'traditional' FI with circa 750-1000hrs. Certainly, jet operators seem to like these candidates, mixed in with candidates who already have airline experience.

Through my course I come across a wide variety of pilots, from those yet to qualify, to the vast majority who have 'low hours' (ie mainly single piston time in varying amounts up to a couple of thousand hours) through turbo-prop regional pilots all the way up to jet captains with significant experience (3 of whom have flown for flag carriers) and although they are all targetting different areas of the pilot recruitment market, the one thing that stands out about those who go on to be successful in their chosen 'target' airline(s) is DETERMINATION.

From my point of view there appears to be little to differentiate between these guys on paper, save the obvious hours/ experience/ age etc. Characterwise, there are very few whom I feel would not be able to make it. They all have plenty of desirable qualities and I have only met one or two whom I would not like to share a cockpit with!

Several of my 'low houred' clients have gone on to be successful at airline selections and are now flying (or in training) with UK airlines. Probably about half have gone on to some sort of type rating scheme (where they have to contribute or pay in full) and the other half have got jobs with no requirement for self-funding the type rating.

So it can be done, is being done and will continue to be done. Those who are doing it are getting lucky, but without fail, they all put themselves in the position to get the lucky break.I have applied to about 50 airlines, taxi company etc etc and I haven't been accepted to any interview yet.. This is not meant as a dig, but if 'applying' to 50 outfits via an application/CV is all you have done, then you are not doing enough to get the 'luck' element. I am not saying that you won't get a phone call tomorrow from some recruitment department inviting you to interview, but there are hundreds of Wannabes who will testify to having done much more than this and they still haven't got the break.

I try to instill in my 'low houred' clients that they must be doing an hour or two a day researching, networking, telephoning etc etc and being pro-active in trying to find an opportunity. It all comes down to 'how much do you want a job flying aeroplanes?' The one thing that is guaranteed is that IF YOU ARE NOT DOING ENOUGH, SURE AS HELL SOMEONE ELSE WILL BE. This leads to the obvious situation where they are more likely to get the break.

So just briefly going back to the determination thing again, those who are determined stand out as good candidates, those who say they 'really want to fly for a living' but aren't doing enough to make it happen, are deluding themselves and are just not demonstrating one of the qualities that is a pre-requisite for pilots of transport aircraft.

Which category do you fit in...........?

PP

[skyman68]

I must have sent circa 1000 CV under different ways: by post mail, e-mail (most), call friends who work for an airline, on-line applications,etc

[Megaton]

I have my first interview this week and I'm relatively low-houred (sub-500) and no longer in my twenties (or even mid-thirties)! It's difficult but it can happen. Stick at it.

[RED WINGS]

What amazes me is that no one on these forums ever seems to point out the obvious, get of your backside and get a job within the industry or chosen airline.
It is reasonably easy to score a job, particularly in spring in ops or despatch. Once in you can make contacts, and it is easier to keep your ear to the ground in the correct environment instead of sitting at home whinging that no one replies to your CV’s.
I too sent out many CV’s with little or no response, I even cultivated contacts I had made in the industry, which led to job offers however I was never able to accept due to only having 300 hours and not meeting the requirements for single crew ops.
If nothing else you will learn more about the industry which is becoming a favoured trait in most modern airline, it is desirable to have a wider understanding of how the whole operation works. I believe Lufthansa insist that new starters spend 6 weeks in every department before being let loose on the flight deck.

All I can say working in operations led me to an interview and sim ride, which has led to a F/O job where may I emphasise the company pays for all uniform and training costs just like the good old days before the Lo-co revolution in emptying pilots wallets.

In all I don’t think it would harm anyone to expand there experiences within the industry, it will make you a better line pilot and it may land that all important first flying job.

I believe at present Eastern and Rockhopper are offering a 6 month secondment in operations leading to line flying, why not try it out you never know you may have some fun!

Good Luck All!

p.s. Hope it goes well Ham dont worry about your age my compny seems to prefer 25-35, ish like the man says "good egg" recruitment, all the best!

[Pilot Pete]

A very good point Red Wings. I know several pilots who have made similar moves to you and found their way into a flying position through another non-flying job with an airline.

And skyman68, equally I know many, many pilots like you who just keep sending out the CVs, which is just not enough. It's too easy to say 'no' or even ignore your CV. What have you done to enhance it over the period you sent '1000' odd CVs out? This must be at least a couple of years? Have you built any more hours and networked any contacts? Have you tried to get a job with an airline in a non-flying role? If you still have the same CV two years after qualifying and it didn't work for you then I fail to see how, short of being 'lucky', it is going to work for you now. You must do whatever to enhance it. You say Most companies want first officers with 1000-1500 hours on jet and must be current which may well be their Christmas Wish list, but reality is somewhat different. There are a large number of airlines here in the UK that have (and are) employing pilots with significantly less than that and believe it or not, some don't even charge for the type rating.

I feel for anyone who has a licence and can't get a job, but to be honest skyman68 all we ever see of you on these forums is negative comment about how 'unfair it is', how you 'won't do x,y,z' etc etc. Your attitude will be reflected in your applications, so I would strongly advise you to get over how 'unfair' the industry is and start being more pro-active about securing yourself a position. You seem to have decided that you won't(can't?) spend any more money on something like an FI rating and that's that. Well, as I said in the last post; someone else WILL be going the extra mile and funding their FI rating, building hours and getting themselves into a position where they do start to get some response from their applications. If you can't fund an FI rating then I question your judgement about coming as far as you have in this industry only to let it all fall by the wayside. I was in a similar position several years back and looked at my options; 250hrs, frozen ATPL/IR and no-one interested in employing me. I quickly realised that my ONLY option was to keep enhancing my total time by way of instructing, so I fished out my credit cards and scraped together the sum required to get the rating, and yes, it was on my credit card statements for some time to come, but what was the point in spending the £50k if I was just going to sit back and let it all slip away for the sake of another £4k?

It sounds to me like you have all but given up on securing a paid flying position. If you don't shake yourself out of the negative mood that you display constantly on here, you will not get a break and will have wasted all that self-investment. Rest assured there are plenty more positive guys out there doing their utmost and finding those jobs that you desire.

I wish you well.

PP

[EGAC_Ramper]

Much good information to certainly be taken onboard.I'm hopefully commencing full-time modular in march with Oxford and hope to finish 10-12months later.As the name suggest I'm a ramp rat at Belfast City and will have worked there for 3 years by the time I leave.Even though it started out as 25hours per week part time I looked at it like a "foot in the door."

Since starting I have got the aquaintances of many FlyBE/BMI pilots aswell as FlyBE duty managers etc.Hopefully my 3 years at the airport and aviation experience/contacts may prove a helpful hand in my future applications.:ok:

Time will tell! :\


Regards

[wingsoverwater]

Do you speak german? A little bit? There is Tyrolean / Austrian Arrows who hires. AND you get the chance for an interview. Based in Innsbruck/Austria, they don't look too much for hours, just personality.

Have you flown at least 50 hours in the past year? Maybe BA Citiexpress will give you a chance.

www.bacitiexpressjobs.com

Good Luck!

http://www.austrianairlines.co.at/deu/Jobs/offers/KopilotenInnen.htm

[eugi]

Hi everybody

I just got a business job on Gulfstream V with 250 hrs and they even pay me the typerating. very lucky about that.
for the guys applying for tyrolean: do it, but they pay very low salaries.. i tried it as well but failed in the final interview. happy to have been thrown out. new job is much much better :ok: ...

good luck for all on the job search and i can give you infos about tyrolean..send me a PM!

cheers
eugi

[Cabotage Kid]

It is reasonably easy to score a job, particularly in spring in ops or despatch. Once in you can make contacts, and it is easier to keep your ear to the ground in the correct environment instead of sitting at home whinging that no one replies to your CV’s.
Don't they care that you are going to try and leave the job as soon as you've started?

[eugi]

cabotage kid:

i must stay there for three years and if I leave before, i habe to pay pro rata temporis. but i do not have any problems to stay there, as the company is very serious and full of nice people.

eugi

[GusHoneybun]

woah there eugi,

cabotage kid was refering to a comment made in an earlier post, and not directed at you.

[Vortex Thing]

So anyone any idea of not too good is when we talk about salaries or is that a bit like a little too high or a little to fast?

[Tufve]

I thank You all for the interest in this thread, and I would like to update and answer some of the replay's.

Puritan
I think what You wrote is all correct and that who you know is a very important part of getting that first break.
This is true in all careers I believe and is also why someone with low experience could find a job before someone more experienced.
Unfortunately there is a lot of young pilots not getting the opportunity that they are looking for.
Maybe we all aim to high?
Maybe we believe that “eventually it will happen, just if I stay current”?

And to everyone that put a line here I would like to add to my point that I have “only” sent about 50 CV’s but they are aimed at specific airlines, taxi and business companies that I feel would be in my best interest and also fit my character best.
This has given me about 4 possible ways to go further in the future, fly King Air C90 with a newly started airtaxi business, pay for typerating and fly MD-80 with linetraining for 6 month, typerating and possible ATR 42 linetraining and a possible Ryanair bond-training through my FTO. All these with salary.
The only thing is that Ryan is not hiring Swedes at the moment due to various reasons. I am still recommended by my FTO to proceed with a Ryanair service.

This is not meant as a dig, but if 'applying' to 50 outfits via an application/CV is all you have done, then you are not doing enough to get the 'luck' element. I am not saying that you won't get a phone call tomorrow from some recruitment department inviting you to interview, but there are hundreds of Wannabes who will testify to having done much more than this and they still haven't got the break.

The about 50 CV I have put on the market is high quality.
With this I mean good contact and well maintained contact and follow-up register.
I also put in about 2-4 hrs every day to look for new contacts and news regarding my “target” airlines, taxi and business companies. Also trying to add interesting contacts.

What I meant with this thread was more to see what other pilots have experienced and what their expectations of the future is.

I also agree with RED WINGS, that going through the backdoor is a very good suggestion, this I have tried and also got better and better contacts and ideas on how to go on with this.
To work in the operations is a very good way to "mature" in the pilot suit... I believe..

I will not surrender to the painted "darkness" of the market.
I am determined to find my way through and develop and mature as a pilot and future commander.

I could also say that the thread was put when I couldn’t find any new ideas to go further in my "hunt" for the first break.

I am sorry that this looked like a negative thread.. I do see that now :hmm:

I would like to say to all future pilot that, and current, DO NOT GIVE UP! Every pilot have had 250hrs at some point, some were lucky, some gave up, but many got their first job and is today proud pilots wherever they may work.

Do not let my bad day ruin your energy.. sorry
;)

[flyaway777]

Hi

There are lots of discussions about age on various posts and most of them are about being too old to get a jet job.

What I would like to know is what about the opposite situation where you may be viewed as too young?

I will be just over 20yrs old when I finish my training which is about a year away, what are your views on whether I may be too young?

I know its very much down to the individual but what do you think?

Cheers!

[Megaton]

37 yrs old, 430 hrs, interview (and sim) with one airline last week and interview with different airline next week. There's a rumble.....

[Johnny Hotspur]

HP.... have you funded your own type rating? Or did you get the interview without a rating and by sending CVs out with a bit of persistence afterwards?

[Megaton]

No type rating just persistence and developing relationships with the companies concerned. I have been applying for nearly 7 months now but it's all starting to happen. I believe I'm on a shortlist for a third job as well!

I don't think there's a definitive answer because everyone will find their own route to a job. I've had tremendous support from friends in the industry who have put the word about on my behalf. More importantly, when I felt like giving up this summer, they assured me that the job market was picking up which I knew objectively but it didn't feel that way.

If I can get interviews then it should be easily be possible for everyone else. Patience and persistence are the key.

I am a very happy man today. :D :cool: ;) :p :ok:

[Johnny Hotspur]

Nice one HP.... good luck to you!

[v12merlin]

HP seem to be approaching his job search in a pragmatic and positive way. I think there's alot to be said for not thinking one size fits all. Hope you land a job, let us know.

Tufve, I can't comment having only just enter the job market myself, but I do know several guy who have secured jobs recently. First bunch all had in excess of 1000 hour, worked as instructors for several years and all went to turbo operators. The others have gone straight on to jets; they had taxi experience, perhaps up to 1000TT, I couldn't be sure. Some got interviews through contacts, others just applied. Their ages ranged from mid 20's to mid 30's some had established professional career prior to fly others didn't.

Sorry not much help I don't know anyone who has got in with 250hrs, I'm sure it happens but hours/ experience seem to improve your chances. Unfortunate really as only have 270!

Good hunting!

Merlin.

[oapilot]

Merlin, keep going, I have 240 hours, got made redundant from my first flying job when the company ran out of money, and am currently in two hold pools, so there is hope (oh yes, and on the wrong side of 40 too)
Many good points raised already on this thread, but thought I would add my bit for the record.
HPs approach to getting that break is spot on, as promoted by many people before, i.e. do your research, target who you want to work for ideally rather than blanket the market, NETWORK, try and build specific relationships within your preferred companies so that your contacts can sell you too, and don't give up.
Also would add to this - try and keep both your skills and your knowledge as up to date as possible so that interview and sim prep is not a last minute panic.
These things are not easy, and there are several companies that I would love to work for that I have not got anywhere with, along side ones where I have, but stay positive (at least in public) and focused.
oap

[Monitorverticalspeed]

I managed it at 22 with 240hrs last november.

[skyman68]

what I have done, I worked my ass for years to get my hours. FI, skydiver's pilots, ....
and noone is interested by my CV. after months of research I have been unable to get an interview.

I have contacted my friends, who have all between 1000-2500h of flight time . Some are ex- cargo pilot, ex-flight instructors, they do not find any job. I have friends who actually fly for airlines(2% of my friends have found a job after 10 years), they can not get a job for me, and are deeply sorry about my position, and they are worried to loose their own job.

what is the point to spend so much money in this JAR training, when there is no job.if you have around 250h, good luck!your chance are very slim, close of 0.1% to get a job as a pilot.

look at own many students want become an airline pilot and are ready to fork a fortune for a return evaluated at 10% of your income. Aviaition is a ripp off, if you consider to become a professional pilot, I would suggest to do another job!

I am not happy at all about my position and about our futur!
good luck to all of us.

and please, do not believe people telling they got a job with 200h, these people come from schools trying to give you some fake hopes!personaly, I do not know one pilot who got a job with 250hours.
I can easily say:" hey guys, I fly a falcon jet and I have only 300hours"...that is Bullock!

[Pilot Pete]

skyman68

We all have a view of this industry tainted by our own position, be that one of success or one of 'still trying'. I feel genuinely sorry for all those guys out there who are having a hard time getting employment, but your comments are quite frankly way off the mark. Just because you don't know many people who have got jobs with 250hrs, or 1000hrs piston, or any other combination of 'non-airline' experience doesn't mean that everyone claiming to have got a job is a liar from a training school trying to drum up business!

I have met a broad range of Wannabes over the last 2 years, ranging from 250hrs all the way through to captains of large jet transports with a whole career behind them. I will say it again, that I have personal experience of pilots who have gained employment over the last 12 months in a large number of UK airlines and several from abroad too. Proportionately those with experience have found it easier to get selections and then get jobs, but a fair number of 'low hours' pilots that I know have got jobs too, many of these being the ones who post on here telling their good news; the ones that you claim these people come from schools trying to give you some fake hopes

I dispute your figure of if you have around 250h, good luck!your chance are very slim, close of 0.1% to get a job as a pilot.

You are claiming that 1 x 250hr pilot in 1000 gets employed. A popularly banded figure on these pages is that there are approximately 1200-1400 pilots seeking employment in UK airlines. Let's say they are all 250hr pilots (which of course they are not), then you are claiming that only 1.2-1.4 of them is going to get a job! So let's just look at how many pilots CTC placed last year. I personally know of 10 and suspect it is at least 3 times that figure, so your claim is totally flawed purely based on the number placed through the CTC ATP Scheme. I personally know about 10x250hr pilots who have gained employment in the last 12 months, and granted I know more who have not, the point being that your 0.1% figure is completely inaccurate.

I have contacted my friends, who have all between 1000-2500h of flight time . Some are ex- cargo pilot, ex-flight instructors, they do not find any job. I have friends who actually fly for airlines(2% of my friends have found a job after 10 years)

Well, strangely enough if they have circa 2500hrs TT they probably qualified around the same time as me, maybe a little after and out of all the people I trained with at Oxford (on the old self improver upgrade course), which amounts to about 15, 14 of them are now flying for airlines and one is still instructing.

So like I said at the start, many of us view this industry from our own introverted position, mine is completely different to yours, but the thing that gives my view more credibility in 'the big scheme' of things is that I am now involved with dozens of pilots who are seeking employment and a large swathe of these have found airline employment and many continue to do so........... This year has been better than many over the last 4 years and the trend seems to be continuing.

Good luck.

PP

[Lil' Pilot]

Skyman68,

I totally agree with Pilot Pete. I think you're view on the whole situation is a bit tainted. Because lowtimer wannebes surely do get jobs lately. In the last 8-10 months quite a large number of wannebees I know got hired. It could just be luck, but the fact is that they DO succeed in finding a job. I truly believe that if you want something, and you are persistent, you'll achieve it. Maybe not today, or tomorrow, or even over a couple of years. Just stay in there, and it will workout.
I'm not here to judge you, but don't say this kind of stuff just because of a bit frustration (so it seems to me though).
Well good luck.

Lil' P

[skyman68]

I hope you are right guys.it is true that actually it is not a good time to apply.
if airlines start to play with us and make fun of us, I know thousant of pilots who will not be able to pay themselves a decent retirement, have a decent life,...

my family is upset by this situation, by chance I am not married and I have no kids. in fact I have no life because I bet all on my stupid career"to become a professional pilot, and after years of hassels , I have nothing more than some 2000 hours and nobody really cares of my flight time. Now they ask 2000 hours of jet time, and where I am going to log that???what i know for sure, the governement (the CAA and UK government) took all my money to pay landing, fuel, TVA fee. thanks a lot !

next time, I destroy my passport and I apply as a refugee!!!

[tom24]

Skyman, you're becoming VERY VERY boring now.

Its always the same story. I have some serious suspicions about you're true existence.

Come back when you have something positive to say, or go try Ryanair, as it seems nobody wants to work for them :rolleyes:

[Vortex Thing]

Skyman,

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news have personally seen two candidates go all the way through CTC to LoCo who at interview had less than 300hrs.

Also know for a fact that another two pilots have gone directly onto a type a jet rating course one with 329hrs and one with 400hrs.

None of them had twin time other than IR, none of them had jet time or turbo time.

None of them had type ratings.

What did they have in common? How and where? are they the best of the best? Do they deserve it more than you?

Well 1st things 1st. What they had in common was they were all female, one was integrated Oxford and the other three modular various other schools. One was Swedish, one Austrian, the other ex Cabin Crew and one was English.

How and where? Well two CTC and the other two are typing on Dornier 328 (you work it out).

Are they the best? Of course not they are good enough cos they are qualified, they were in the right time at the right place or knew the right people or were just lucky in one case. Two were really nice people two just people (my opinion). All were under 30 in fact 3 were under 25.

But hey some people get cancer and die, some smoke till they are 90 and never have a problem.

Stop thinking that the world owes you a living because you've put some effort in, it doesn't.

You want to apply as a refugee do you, do you really? No do you because why don't you go and live in a war torn state somewhere and suffer a bit of torture or abuse, live the life that some of these poeple have and then apply for a passport if you like and then maybe you will see how badly off you really are.

Now don't get me wrong it's just that I for one am a little fed up with people like you moaning that it doesn't work for them.

Is it frustrating yes, have I been there, errm yes, did it annoy me errrm yes am I asking the world to explain itself errmm NO.

Get of your jacksie and move countries, buy a type rating fly in Africa, Antartica wherever you can find a plane. Sell a kidney, sell your granny, sell your soul. Do something untill it works. You said you are single so therefore what do you have to gain apart form experience of the world.

Maybe that experience will show that life ain't easy and isn't a gift its a daily never ending struggle to keep your head above the waters of depression, bankruptcy and decay but hey if it was easy then the rewards would not taste so sweet.

So take your negative karma out of our grid square and come back when you've sold the rose tinted spectacles.


:ok: :ok: :ok:

Sorry just my tuppence worth

[r44flyer]

Here here!

Personally, I think CV content, personality traits, previous employment record and work ethic are far more important than numbers in log books. Especially considering the numbers of pilots applying with relatively few hours and the current climate of the industry.

Concentrate of making your CV sparkle. What can you do to make yourself stand out? Sure, fly on the side to keep yourself current but don't throw ALL your money at hour building. It's not the be all and end all.

I've got A-levels, gained a PPL(H) at 17, been a bus driver in London for a few years, been a hospital volunteer worker, been a special constable... and now I'm studying for a degree which encompasses a PPL(A). I'm planning to be applying to airlines with circa 100hrs fixed wing in a less than 3 years time. I'm also planning to get a job in the industry (non-flying) while I wait. Not that I'm blowing my own trumpet but I mean I'll have sod all hours when I apply but I believe the qualities everything else has taught/will teach me are worth so much more.

much of what has been said already, but was keen to emphasise the points.

Jim

[v12merlin]

I think you got be positive instead buying into all the negative crap that gets circulated. Here's a list of some of the things I've heard on my travels. Now if I believed all of this then I'd be screw, infact just about everyone would be!

Airlines don't like instructors because they have bad habits.

You should do an MCC on a relavent type otherwise it use less.

Airlines don't like taxi pilots as there too used to single crew operation.

Don't take a job on a turboprop, you'll get stuck there and never get onto jets.

Airlines don't take modular students.

Airlines don't employ pilots who didn't pass there IR first time.

You need to pass all groundschool exams first time.

To get a job you need 2000hrs jet (skyman68).

Much more than 1000hrs of instructing is frowned upon.

Only 0.1% get jobs as a pilots (skyman68).

Airlines expect you to of done the IR at oxford or cabair 'they don't like other less reputable schools'.

Turboprop operator don't take people who've done JOT courses.

I'm sure there's some truth in a few of these but personally I've seen evidence that contradict all of them. I'm not saying that's it's easy to find a job, not at all, merely that being negative is going to make it much harder.

Merlin.

[pkos]

skyman, I am EXACTLY in the same situation as you are. I have spent 10 years (I finished my PPL in spring 1994)... I decided to move to the US in 1997 to do the FAA stuff (everything from PPL to FI), I was happy because I built good flight time in 2 years (more than 1300 and 500 multi),... then I move back to Europe, well... a place at the south of the continent called "Spain" (Im spanish).

Anyway... Im still alucinating how I could find my first job (no jet or turboprop at all)... Im flying single prop for an aerial photography company (I cant buy single peugeot 206 with my salary) Now I have more than 2200 hours (thats all Ive got after 10 years), but I´ve got another problem, Im 32 years old, my time is running out, and I know that its a little chance for me to ever be a line pilot... but not for you.

Things in UK work different I heard, I do beleive that if you still working out your way there you could do something. Here in Spain there are several (I said several thousand pilots unemployed), if you have the enormous luck to be called by an airline, in many cases they can ask you to pay 50.000€ just for the type rating, some others ask you for less money but for temporary contracts... and others if you do not have conections forget it.

People here live worst for sure, this fact is not going to help you, just think that things could be a lot worst.

But Im still here, fighting against everything, nobody will fight for me. I just can say...keep trying

[xbilz]

Hi All,

For all disappointed ones, read me.

I am going to be 29 next June. An above average computer engineer, with not surprisingly, passion to be an airline pilot. Yes, I wasn't the fortunate one to inherit money to fund my training and I have read a lot about the flying schools, training, ratings and Jobs. Combined together, all gives a horrible picture but here I am, risking all my life savings only because I believe in myself. All odds are against me but I have decided to go against all this. If you don't have fighting skills like these ... then you cannot be a pilot. I was born this way. Came from a deprived society and had to do everything on my own since the age of 16. Joined IT so that I could pile up some money for my life i.e. Be a Pilot. Can't sleep seeing myself not being one.

I don't want to look back at the age of 50 and regret "What if??". I know there is a very hard time ahead but I am up for it. No pain, No gain. I have decided to gamble .. and I will gamble.

Friends at PPrune are like an extended family to me .. and I am sure advices will flood through.

[skyman68]

I do not want upset anyone on this forum, I just want say that it is very hard to get a job in aviation and the success of 1 or 2 guys on the hundred, thousand pilots looking for a job, does not mean it is easy., and without lot of money, and compassion from your wife, family or kid, most have stoped to look after 2-3 years.

when i read some posts here, I think you have to be a true nationalist british citizen and maybe that is my problem, I am a foreigner from the continent. By the way do you know lot of pilots who are not british and who fly for a UK airlines?

anyway, I have sent some CV again, and I will keep you informed of my researches.

you are right pkos, I am in the same situation, lot of hours, between 30-40, no typed,...
...and some people say that guys with 250 h got jobs, WHERE????
give me some names, and I will become a true believerthat less hours you have better it is!
for now, I really think that some flight schools are posting bullockshere to make run their business!particularly at this time, when the fuel is so expensive.

ah ah very funny merlin...eh you are totally right .in fact if you have less than 250 and more than 250h, it is not possible to get a job.that' my new theory!

This aviation market has always been ridiculous.

[scroggs]

Skyman, you're right - it's not easy to get a job in aviation. I don't think anyone here would want it to be easy; after all, what would that say about the job? However, while there are always examples of those who don't make it, there are also always examples of those who do! Do you really think that all pilots in the UK are British, were born with 3000 hours jet time and a type rating, had a father in the company, and were sleeping with the boss's daughter?

The vast majority of airline pilots in UK started exactly like you. Many of them waited far longer than you to get a job, but many were lucky and didn't have to wait at all. As for where you come from, my company employs pilots from many countries; I believe Ryanair employs pilots from as many as 46 different countries! So, believe me, you don't have to be British.

Assuming you have the correct qualifications, the thing that influences your chances of employment more than anything else is your attitude. If you go around complaining that life isn't fair, with a sour look on your face, suspicious of all employers and jealous of all employees, you are not likely to be get a job. However, if you approach life with an optimistic viewpoint, regarding all new experiences and contacts as opportunities, and you enjoy whatever life you have as much as you can, you are far more likely to be regarded as a good prospect and a decent bloke to be around - and, therefore, to employ.

Go back and look through your posting history and see whether you come across as the optimistic pleasant type, or the moaning, insufferable, cynical pessimist. Would you employ you, if all you had to go on was your Pprune record? I doubt it!

Scroggs

[pkos]

the thing that influences your chances of employment more than anything else is your attitude

The last time I had a interview with an airline was in summer 2000, ...well thats not exactly true, I had one with someone who ask me 50000€ for the TR and the job (at that time they dont even had planes!).

If I only could get an interview only once every two years, I would be a lot more optimistic. The equation is very easy to understand "The more chances you have = The more optimistic you are". In other hand, if you havent done any interviews (this is the situation of a lot of guys)... if you are still optimistic, may be you have a mental disorder.

I declare that I am pesimist (I rather say Im realistic). The reason is because after trying the last 5 years to get a honorable pilot position (I do not ask for an airline job, just something that let me live a middle-class lifestyle)... after send my CV to several hundred companies... I only could get two jobs (in general aviation)... yes, I know I was fortunate, at least Im flying, there are a lot of guys they will never have such opportunity.

There are a lot of people, with a lot of different stories... but I convinced in one thing "Like everything else in life, you can do a lot to get your dream come true to be an airline transport pilot... but the 75% of the chances to reach that goal only depends on your LUCK"

have fun

[Mister Geezer]

Well how is this for a quick positive statistic!!!

I instructed full time for part of last year and myself along with everyone else that I instructed along side with, all have jobs in the right hand seat. I only instructed fulltime for 6 months before I struck lucky. Due to the shortage of FIs I still instruct in my spare time! Never give up - the market is getting better!!!

[Craggenmore]

Skyman68

Oh Ye of little faith.

Sometimes you have to hit rock bottom before things get better.

Keep going...

Craggs

[Julius]

Skyman and other negative individuals!

I know lots of guys that have got an airline job, either with 300TT or 1500TT or between. I also am working for an airline (not yet flying though) and I know for a fact that in most cases the airlines are looking for candidates who they trust to be captains in the future, ie. they are looking for future captains. For that reason and many more their choice is not a negative person like you. I advise you to cheer up and look at life more positive. Like someone said earlier your attitude shines through your CV! Getting a flying job has not been easy last 10 years or more but I can tell you and I think many more agree, that aviation is picking up, there are and will be far more jobs than have been for years. Change your attitude and you will most likely get a job!
Good Luck to you all!
Julius

[CAT3C AUTOLAND]

Don't take a job on a turboprop, you'll get stuck there and never get onto jets.

What the hell do you think is driving that propellor?

[superman_32]

I tell you this whole business sucks. Money poured down the drain, were it could have been invested in far more better things. Aviation sucks guys, I have an ATPL with 2400 hrs total time, did an approved course because at the time they said, " all airlines like to see someone that has done an approved course" well it is rubbish....I am so sad that I have wasted a good 10 yrs in of my life which will never come back again! running after being a glorified bus driver!!!!, I could have become a real bus driver with national express or something and just be contempt with my salary, and I would still be responisble of 150 people or so and wearing a uniform!!!..

Promot this " PROFESSIONAL PILOT JOBS SUCKS" people have to realise this and STOP parting away with their hard earned money.

It is a waste of time guys......a lot of heart ache, a lot of money, and sometimes can get in your own personal married life if you are married.

[TRon]

Again, same post of complete crap superman/skyman

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=1583391#post1583391

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=150116

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=150105

Nuff said.

[v12merlin]

CAT3C AUTOLAND,

What the hell do you think is driving that propellor?

Durrrrrrrrrrrrr, the pedals in the cockpit of course. I thought everyone knew this, plus after years of intense exercise the poor pilots legs become so big that they won't fit in a standard jet cockpit. As you can imagine retrofitting the cockpit and having to build non-standard trouser for these pilots is a turn of for employers.

I hope this goes some way to making things a little clearer for you.

Merlin.:confused:

[pablo]

Hiya!

I think you're completely wrong, the pedals drive the wheels, for taxiing and taking off. The propeller is just a fake to keep the passegers hypnotized. It's incredible how little people knows about turboprops!

I vote for moving this thread to the tech log!

Cheers!

[skyman68]

Vote KERRY if you are a man.

BUSH=no pilot job!!!

(poor Tron, he spent all his weekend to track superman32.
man! take a brake!)

[muppet]

Crumbs, I thought the props were there to keep me cool.

I don't 'alf break out in a sweat when when they stop turning!

[tescoapp]

Its a big rubber band.

Thats why you see first officers winding them back up after the pax are off on some types

tescoapp

[CAT3C AUTOLAND]

v12merlin,

Oh yes, now I see why your the sharpest tool in the toolbox.