Skywest To Get DeathStars!

[Capn Bloggs]

Rumour has it the recently-appeared A320 stop bars at regional airports aren't for JetStar, they're for Skywest! WHAT ARE SCOTT AND JOANNA UP TO??

[Airspeed Ambassador]

Bloggs, which regional airports are they appearing at?

My money would still be on Jetstar.

I think WA will also see some more red 737's in the years ahead.

AA

[HOBAY 3]

Rumour has it the recently-appeared A320 stop bars at regional airports aren't for JetStar, they're for Skywest!

Kind of takes me back 2 years when there were rumours of SQ starting domestic ops in Australia. Reffering to:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=68141&highlight=Singapore

and the wonderful post by ftrplt (about 3/4 of the way down page1):

I can just see the SQ board at the meeting to decide if they are going to go ahead with a domestic airline;

"right gentlemen, its agreed that we will start and we will push for about 6 months from now"

"does anyone have any final questions?"

"yes, we better make sure that we get some stop lines painted at Sydney airport right away, its the most important thing we have to do and we cant go any further until thats done"

"great point, I would not have thought of that. A hearty bonus coming your way"

:D :D :D

[itchybum]

My sister works at J*. Apparently the pilots are "fighting over" a basings opportunity in Perth. She thinks they will be running an ad for hosties in the West Aussie in Oct.

[Eastwest Loco]

Methinks the sleeping Lion to our North waketh and eyes a possible full service gold mine.

Bring it awn!!!!!

EWL

[Dehavillanddriver]

I can't see Singapore starting a new operation here full service or not.

Despite their past record of chucking away perfectly good money, I don't think that they would be that dopey to think that they can enter the market here and make money in any reasonable time frame.

[Capn Bloggs]

Apparently the pilots are "fighting over" a basings opportunity in Perth
Seniority rules, OK? Alphabetical!

[itchybum]

EWL that's not like you. Local profits/services or foreign?

I thought you were "true-blue (whatever that really means)?

Ansett falling over (3 years ago) is no reason to go "postal".......

;)

[Watchdog]

Itchybum...your data on J* basings is inaccurate...no such have been advertised or even rumoured!

[gaunty]

So the crop circles that turned up in the grass next to RWY 21 at Perth mean that Mr Vader is planning to introduce direct services to Kashyyk instead of having to connect through Tasmania. Bring it on I say. ;)

[Eastwest Loco]

Aahhhhh Itchy - if only!!!

The days are gone when home grown Aussies ran Airlines with a history and a culture and still really called Australia home.

Sure, the Rat is still Aussie in name but I received a Debit Memo several weeks ago from them for an uncollected tax - postmarked Surrey in the UK.

They want to be an Australian airline but would rather outsource labour overseas to save a buck.

I am indeed "true blue" but canot see the dollars coming forth to fund a real competitor to the incumbents from the local scene. I so hope I am wrong.

If Singapore money leaps in behind Skywest, then I will be more than happy to help wind back the clock to a gentler time, providing they take care of their people in a manner to which we used to be accustomed and that was fair and reasonable.

Hell - I still have the full East coast aeroplane utilization scedule locked in the back of my head in the "usefull box" and can roll it out in moments. I would be pleased to share. Wanting the Tasmanian ground handling contracts would be a bonus too, but I want back into the industry - not the one that I left but the one that left me.

Eenie Weenie's former little cousin would be the absolutely perfect vector to return to some logic in out skies.

Make it so - anyone!! Singapore - come on down!

Best regards

EWL

Ron

[HAMO]

EWL

Agree with you that Eenie Weenie was a great airline, and I can totally understand how proud you are of your involvement with them. Know what is like working for a small airline that you put your whole effort into ..

My question to you (and this is not having a go at you), is how would an operational plan that is 10+ years old, together with the full service concept stack up in todays market, esp with increased competition and much lower margins.

Seriously interested in how you would see it working

Cheers

Hamo

[Eastwest Loco]

Hamo - no offence was intended and none was taken mate.

It is quite simple. The required and most attractive times for flights has not changed over the last 30 years.

The early flights ex Tas feeding into the mainalnd market, which in turn become holiday market time slots ex Sydney and on Northwards. The reverse is also true with southbound timings.

Originating early ex MEL and SYD are there to serve the business market and their oncarriage serves the leisure market from downline ports.

The highest yield is the originating flights and the RON aeroplanes. The icing on the cake is the oncarriage - normally 25% or more on the business hours flights. It just seals the deal.

The plan was right at the time, and worked well. It would still work brilliantly now, with a little "flying around the edges" of the incumbents. It aint that hard, particularly with one of them alienating most of their clients with Eurocrap service.

If you are interested, you can call me at any time on 0419 323989 or business hours ( Tas time) 1800 067207.

I did have a hand in EW scheduling and in cohorts with Nifty Nev Maguire was responsible for the HBA DPO SYD OOL BNE CNS EW74/75 service. Only asked for an F27 once a week - and wound up with a daily and sometimes twice daily F28 service.

Best regards

EWL

Ron

Having read further, (my apologies) on the full service side of things, punters are flying into DPO on QFlink rather than fly the cattle truck to LST in their droves. There are so many disgruntled psgrs out there it is scary. They will hit DPO and drive rather than fly Jetstar, simply to be treated as a human. Start there sales run from here.

The Eurocrap theory is suited to intending Firefly Bus passengers and the human detrius we load onto the Melbourne bound Spirits of Tasmania. there are a great number of well heeled prospective passengers out there that mourn the loss of Ansett and East West who would be only too happy to throw their hats in the ring and embrace a new airline. All Y class is fine - just full service. It is not expensive to deliver good munchies.

We need to take Australian domestic aviation back to what the punters want, at a decent but not ridiculously low or high price.

It aint that hard.

Best

EWL

[commander adama]

EWL

Amazing Q or Virgin don't use you since you know far more than the big 2 combined or anyone else out there. Maybe you should start an airline yourself.

[Eastwest Loco]

adama

I am not good at many things in this life, but scheduling and aeroplane utililisation were some of the things that dwell in my "idiot savant" brain areas.

I do not appreciate the barbed approach you took to replying to this thread, but hell - what can I do.

The crew I trained from scratch at DPO airport were second to none, and I will not take a backward step in claiming to be the best of the best at what I did and that goes for my crew too. I have left my mark on current Airlines in ways that are invisible but evident if one knows.

Maybe one day you will be able to say that with conviction about yourself and your career adama.

I do hope you will be able to. Otherwise your passing through the industry will truly be irrelevant.

EWL

[commander adama]

EWl

No pronged attack on yourself. I am asking why and how 2 companies would not see what you seem to be able to see and make even more money on East Coast routes. Times have changed and do you really believe you possess this unfound knowledge soley.

I do hope you will be able to. Otherwise your passing through the industry will truly be irrelevant

Yes I do. Just one of manyl doing his job. I enjoy the industry and do know I am nothing but a dime in a dozen.

[Sperm Bank]

Most of us can't afford the luxury of dwelling on a by-gone era. Being in the 21st century requires a forward looking approach. I can not think of too many businesses off the top of my head who wallow in yesteryear and make money from it. The current situation is far from perfect but the FACT remains, air travel in Australia is now more affordable and more accesible than it EVER has been. No longer the domain of the elite middle and upper classes. The general population is now able to fly, and while that may upset some of the purests in our community, the MAJORITY just get on with the job of delivering a affordable quality product.

The times are changing. The choice is to grasp the opportunities as they are presented, or day dream about outdated, expensive and elitist garbage from days gone by. QF and DJ profits are testimony to the succes of new business models. As I say we may not like it (and there are some parts I find deplorable), but the fact remains these companies are now doing it better and cheaper than ever before.

[Eastwest Loco]

Sorry adama

I bit far too quickly, and was too bull headed to properly read before I replied.

Please accept my apologies for the overreaction.

Best regards

EWL

Ron

[Stick Pusher]

We again move WAY WAY off the post topic. I'll just to try and steer it back, XR is full service.....:ok:

[Eastwest Loco]

adama - I have bleeding well done it again!! Not read properly.

Now I have (other thinks on mind and a recalcitrant Sabre system that doesnt ant to talk to AO or anybody else at the moment.

The small port schedules, and lower volume utilisation is well known - by people mostly now out of the industry completely.The art of utilizing bugsmashers feeding small medium jets- mini hubbing - maximizing a small fleet effectively and making dollars has fallen into history. Even DJ is not effectively hubbing as they are using their own Euro model with only passing and incomplete acceptance of what they call "open jaw" trips. These we would call multi sector. They cannot handle reservations beyond 2 sectors, but that is one more than Jetstar.

There is no doubt the info is out there regarding East coast scheduling for a smaller incumbent, but getting hold of it would be the poblem. I was simply offering up this knowledge as we need a new full service incumbent - badly. A lot of the information has been lost in the post '89 period, and what remained was decimated by the restructures after Ansett's demise.

It is still about though. All I would need is a plan of ports to be serviced, equipment used and aeroplane numbers along with block times by sector and away we go.

Best regards

EWL

[HOBAY 3]

EWL,

have never understood the need for lots of multistop flights. Unless you like takeoffs and landings isn't the 'eurocrap' setup far more time and cost-efficient? For example, why would a customer wanting to fly HBA-BNE choose your airline, where they have to stop in DPO, SYD and OOL, over Jetstar or Virgin Blue who fly non-stop?

I remember having a lengthy (but friendly) debate with you a couple of years ago when I suggested that it was viable to operate a non-stop HBA-BNE service daily. Well, two years later, the airlines finally catch on, and we have two airlines, each operating a daily service on that route.

Don't forget Jetstar grew the HBA market by over 40% in one month, so whether you like it or not, there must be some punters out there for which Jetstar is exactly what they want!

Very interested in your views however EWL. I, like you, find aircraft scheduling fascinating. I have never worked in that area, but like you, I believe I could come up with schedule patterns a thousand times better than the ones those clowns at Jetstar devise!

:D

[Eastwest Loco]

Hiya Hobay

The multi market thingy seems to work well, as you are just using one aeroplane under one flight number to service multiple port pairs.

Take the old EW74 as an example. That served HBA DPO (weekends only because of Dallas at Scare Tasmainia) HBA SYD - HBA OOL - HBA BNE - HBA CNS then DPO SYD - DPO OOL - DPO BNE - DPO CNS and SYD OOL - SYD BNE - SYD CNS and OOL BNE (limited interest) OOL CNS plus finally BNE CNS. These permutations are just the one areoplane and do not take into consideration the oncarriage to other ports ex intermediate cities.

The punters did not seem to mind the shuffling as the fares were right, and we carried a fair bit of HBA DPO MEL traffic, transhipping off the F28 onto F27 and WNY SYD traffic doing the reverse equipment change.

As for non stop services, the game has changed in that regard, with the Eenie Weenie theory on steroids forced on the punters, so some rules no longer apply. I would however like to see some of the P & L figures on these routes.

Many of my clients are rejecting the "recheck ya bags - wait at least 90 minutes for a change of flight theory, and choose to fly ex DPO and pay for the privelege. One of my bigger Corporates on the Gold Coast sends their passengers to Brisvegas or books Virgin so their staff have a chance to work on flights with guaranteed seating together.

The niche for a cheeky new incumbent is definitely there and I am sure the niche would have been filled if not for people dressed like angry sofas flying aeoplanes into buildings. That shagged a lot of forward planning.

I still do think the old pattern would work, and would provide something for the incumbents to think about.

best regards

EWL

[F111]

Eastwest,

Have you spoken to Alliance Airlines, according to reports they have another 4-6 F100's arriving? They could be the answer to filling the void. I believe their standard seat pitch is 32", which is more than any other "Y" class in OZ offer's.

[commander adama]

EWL

At the end of the day a new niche scheduke may suit some. However the majority will chase cheap airfares of which the big 3 can change at wim.

Australians once again will show no support for a new airline. No chance!

[Hans Solo]

G'Day EWL,

I think Adama is to quickly dismissive of the ideas you put forward.
I for one (and I am certainly not of the "Wealthy" class), would certainly travel on a Full-Service Airline if given the choice, having had a taste of the alternative.
The obvious factor that would determine whether people went full-service or the Virgin/Jetstar route is not IMHO who is the cheapest, but rather whether the difference in price between the two is what most would consider to be reasonable.
If for instance it cost $300 one way (economy) from Melbourne to Brisbane on Virgin/Jetstar, yet it cost $400 with a full-service carrier with its allocated seating, meals etc, then I would be more than happy to travel Full-Service.
A choice of Bussiness class seating would no doubt attract those that enjoy this class of travel.
Whether or not a full-service carrier could compete, would depend upon many factors, most of which a LCC would also have in common, the big difference would be finding a price differential acceptable to the public at large which would make them feel they got a bargain as well as the full service for only a 'Few Dollars More'.

Hans.

[Eastwest Loco]

Adama

Good scheduling will beat cheap pricing 50% of the time, and that is all you need to do.

There is a portion of the domestic market that has crawled off the firefly bus, and is now flying. They are not, never were and never will be the target for a full service airline.

High disposable income markets like Hamilton Island and the Gold and Sunshine Coasts are screaming as they have lost the full service middleman, and the big loser is Jetstar. Virgin is doing rather well ex Cooly due to seat allocation and limited oncarriage and baggage transhipment. Try getting a seat on the token (shut the local pollies up) rat mainline service and see how you go!

The slot is there if Skywest and/or Alliance can weather the initial predatory pricing. As for J class - I am not sure. On a 100 seat aeroplane maybe one row, using "Morganiseable" seats as used in the TN DC9 - 727 fleets a million years ago may be the way to go.

Thirty percent of the domestic market has been told to change their ways and live with it. 100% of them are saying no way Jose. What a perfect opportunity.

Hans Solo - may the force (or farce) be with you.

I am buying AD75 J class to get my fat butt to SIN and DPS next month, and am in a position to afford it at the discount level. I could have chosen Y class and saved a bucket but will not. I am far from alone, and could go to meetings on Jetstar ex LST, but choose not to and fly QF link ex DPO.

We do indeed live in interesting times.

Best all

EWL

[Iakklat]

Hans Solo would have to disagree with you on that one matey.
The Australian publics mentality is that they will go for the cheapest airfare they can possibly afford.With the cheapness of Vb creeping in to the West i believe the going is going to get extremely difficult for operators like XR.
The average Aussie doesnt distinguish between what is a safe operator,a full service operator but simply want to go from A to B when is convenient and what is the cheapest.
The glamorous days of first,business and full service economy are gone in Australian Aviation forever, as are the financial rewards of pursuing a career as an airline pilot outside of working for Australias major carrier. :\

[IFF]

This seems to have little to do with Skywest:confused:

[Dehavillanddriver]

Hans you must be a restauranteur's dream customer!

If you did a side by side comparison of the Virgin Blue product against the QANTAS mainline product - on the aeroplane that is - I reckon that the only MAJOR difference (comparing economy with economy) is that the food and softdrinks (and on some services the booze) is free on QF where you pay for it on Virgin and video programming. The seatpitch is the same and the audio entertainment is essentially the same.

If you agree that those are the major differences between QF and DJ economy products - would you be prepared to pay $100 for an airline meal and a small can of coke?

I accept that there are some differences outside the aeroplane QF club, valet parking, upgrades to business class with points, FF miles etc, however these would not add up to $100 in value - for me anyway.

If the difference was 10-20 dollars you are talking a different situation, but for $100 each way or $200 or more return I would go DJ if I was paying.

If someone else was paying it again would be a different story - I would then tend to go for the more convenient flight - and pocket some FF miles along the way!

Alliance and Skywest are in a no mans land situation - they are not LCC's, they are sort of regionals - but not quite majors - they have a niche market that they probably serve very well - but they will never be serious competition for Virgin and QF (or even Jetstar) as they don't have the route structure or connections etc.

[topend3]

rumours of xr getting a320's may stem from their link with cvc in the takeover stakes. cvc has links to a chinese a320 operator. anyway, highly unlikely me thinks.

but f100's with skywest written in chinese characters, that is more of a possibility.