Biggin Hill Battle of Britain Display

[Dop]

Not up to the high standards of some posters, I'm afraid, but here goes:-

http://www.dop.btinternet.co.uk/dc6.jpg
http://www.dop.btinternet.co.uk/butterly.jpg
http://www.dop.btinternet.co.uk/harrier.jpg
http://www.dop.btinternet.co.uk/red1.jpg
http://www.dop.btinternet.co.uk/red2.jpg
http://www.dop.btinternet.co.uk/vixen.jpg
http://www.dop.btinternet.co.uk/b17.jpg
http://www.dop.btinternet.co.uk/cat.jpg
http://www.dop.btinternet.co.uk/dornier.jpg
http://www.dop.btinternet.co.uk/spits.jpg
http://www.dop.btinternet.co.uk/fury.jpg
http://www.dop.btinternet.co.uk/tornado.jpg
http://www.dop.btinternet.co.uk/f15.jpg

[ozplane]

Despite what the purists say I think the "Red Bull" Sea Vixen looks terrific in it's sponsors colours and your shot proves it. Some really good photos there, thanks for sharing.

[simon niceguy]

Dop.

Don't do yourself down.

Great pics. Thanks for sharing them with us.

Love the Do-24.

Simon.

[Peter Barron]

Great pictures, well done.

ozplane, you don't have to be a purist to realise that the Sea Vixen looks awful in those colours.
A little sticker under the cockpit would have been enough for the advertising but to paint it up like a flying billboard is dreadful.

Lucky when Breitling were sponsering the fighters that they did not paint great big watches all over the aircraft, their advertising was descrete and tastefully done. unlike the Sea Vixen.

[No comment]

I quite like the colourscheme, but to apply it to the only flying example (i think) of the Sea Vixen is a shame. Especially as this example's previous test scheme of Red and Yellow was rather unusual. However, it looks better now than when I used to see it looking rather quiet, wings folded, at Llanbedr...Fair play to Red Bull for sponsoring it.

I get the same feeling when looking at Miss Demeanour, lovely colour scheme and it really looks good on the Hunter, but I would prefer to see it on perhaps an operational jet for some reason!

Then again they're privately owned so whatever takes their fancy, they're the ones keeping them in the sky for us to ogle!

[wub]

Nice pics Dop, thanks. As for the Sea Vixen, I can cope with the paint job on top but the underside is horrible, but it is better than no aircraft at all (just).

http://www.pbase.com/glenns/image/31173855.jpg

[ozplane]

Peter, I'm afraid you have a strange idea of how advertising works. Just watch the Chinese Grand Prix later today to see that advertisers need the maximum exposure and a "little sticker" doesn't do it at 400 knots, even on a low pass. If you want a service colour scheme go to Duxford or Yeovilton. Personally I still think it looks as good as anything else on the airshow circuit and I bet I'm not alone in that view.

[tipsy]

I'm with you ozplane.

Whilst it might not represent the original paint scheme when the particular aircraft was in service it certainly looks spectacular now.

Then again the Hunter that is getting around like a noisey rainbow looks pretty good too.:)

And yes I did watch the Chinese GP, I see one of yours won (again)

tipsy

[Peter Barron]

ozplane.

No, no strange ideas about advertising.
It can be tastefully done and not full in your face like the Sea Vixen.
Breitling got full exposure by sponsoring the Breitling Fighters and they did not have to have repaint the aircraft in their colours to do it or put massive Breitling logo's on the Aircraft.
Red Bull are now sponsoring the DC-6 that is now in Europe, yes they have their logo's on the Aircraft but it is still kept in its original colours and the logo's are not that big, so why could that have not been done for the Sea Vixen, kept in original colours with just a couple of logo's like the DC-6.

As for Formular 1 advertising there is no comparison, F1 are modern racing cars not vintage and classic cars, can you imagin anyone letting Red Bull sponsor a 1920s Le Mans Blower Bentley and painting it in their colours and slapping a big red bull on it.

I think ozplane we will have to agree to disagree on this one, I think the Sea Vixen looks dreadful and could have been done so much better:ok:

[ozplane]

Peter we certainly will have to disagree. The point is that Breitling are selling watches in the £1,000 to £50,000 range. I did some work with them when they were sponsoring OFMC and I was amazed to find that there are collectors who actually purchase each individual watch type as it's released. This is a VERY different market from the hung-over football supporter who needs a Red Bull caffeine "kick" at £1.00 a tin. (And it tastes horrible allegedly). Breitling could therfore be much more discrete with their advertising. However have you seen this year's 5-ship L-39 team that they are sposoring. They couldn't be much more in your face than that blue and yellow colour scheme and before you ask I like it.
And yes "tipsy" I did see we won again. Almost boring ain't it?

[London Jets]

Dop great pictures, as someone else said - don't do your self down.

As for the Sea Vixen debate, the advertising has worked because we are all talking about it. It may not be the best paint job in the world for a classic aircraft such as the Sea Vixen, but I would rather see one flying and as it is the only flying example I don't think we have much choice in the colours of it. If it wasn't for the people at Red Bull then we wouldn't be seeing it fly would we?

LJ

[REF]

I took this at Biggin Hill in 2001 before the old bird went to be re-painted.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v197/REFLAGG/AIRCRAFT%20POSTED/20010603.jpg

Dop - nice pictures mate, have you anymore? Unfortunately I missed out on Biggin this year.

Richard

[Peter Barron]

ozplane.
Sponsorship is a great thing, it helps keep these beautiful aircraft in the air and hats off to Red Bull for doing it, BUT tell me if you can why is it that the Red Bull sponsored DC-6 is kept in its original polished metal colours with small logo's so it still looks as it should and the Sea Vixen is painted in a full gaudy Red Bull scheme with massive Red Bulls covering the aircraft. Both Aircraft are advertising the same thing for the same company, so why the difference.
I don't think Red Bull are trying to target hung-over football supporters by using aircraft as advertising, if they wanted to do that they would have sponsored a football team.

But honest, I would like to know why the difference in the two aircraft from the same sponsor.

The DC-6 sponsorship design looks like it was done by a chap who knew his job, the Sea Vixen looks like it has been done by a spotty 16 year old just out of art school who had drunk too much red bull at the time ;)

[BEagle]

Dop - a nice selection of unusual types. Thanks!! Particularly the Sea Fury, Vixen and Do24T.

If people want to see more Do24 shots (including interior piccies), take a look at http://www.acns.de/ and click on 'more pictures' where there is a sequence which was taken when the aircraft visited Lake Constance ('Bodensee') earlier this year.

Regarding the Sea Vixen, I would far sooner see it in real FAA colours, the red bulls could be applied as fake sqn logos on the tail.

But far better a flying billboard than a static museum exhibit!

[ozplane]

Not knowing the Red Bull advertising Director personally, I have no idea why there is a difference in colour scheme between the Sea Vixen and the DC-6. Perhaps the thinking is they wanted a loud, brutish and ugly fighter (football supporter) for airshow work and a calmer, more genteel aerial carriage for the heavyweight purchasing directors of the aforesaid drink. Talking to some chums who saw the Red Bull Air Race in Budapest a few weeks ago they were amazed by the brashness of the advertising by Red Bull. The race apparently started by flying UNDER the 2 main bridges on the river.
Have you read the article in this month's Aeroplane Monthly which goes in to some detail on the costs of running the Sea Vixen. A number of £140,000 for a season springs to mind. Without Red Bull no Sea Vixen and I think that's the bottom line.

[Conc]

The DC-6 based at Salzburg is owned by Red Bull not just sponsered and is to be used for company coporate hospitality type events. It may appear at one or two shows but as I understand it from one of the Captains of the aircraft they do not intend to display it as an airshow aircraft.
As for the paint job, nice job in keeping with the style that 6s were originally painted in but also the Red Bull coporate colours. I would prefer to see the Sea Vixen in it's old colours or Navy scheme but I prefer to see it flying looking as it does than not at all.

[Peter Barron]

ozplane.

Totally agree with you, without Red Bull the Sea Vixen would not be flying, but I honestly think it could have been done far more tastefully.
Sorry but I will have to disagree with you about the Sea Vixen being ugly, I think its a beautiful looking aircraft with its big twin booms and swept back wings, such a different shape in the sky.

BEagle.

You should have been head of advertising at Red Bull, your idea of putting the Sea Vixen in FAA colours with the Red Bull logo as fake sqn markings on the tail would have worked for me, they would have their advertising and it would still be in original colours

[REF]

Peter Barron - Totally agree with you, the Sea Vixen is a beautiful aircraft.

At least it is a flying example of a stunning DeHavilland design and long may it continue flying - regardless of what colours it is in.

Richard.

[WG774]

In an ideal world Sea Vixen would appear in authentic livery, but it didn't stop her from being an absolute highlight for myself and the party I attended BH with - it takes more than a gaudy paintjob to keep down the spirit of De H's visionary designers.

Dop: Thanks for sharing. Did you get any Sea Hawk pictures?

edit: BTW, does G-CVIX / XP924 have a website? Was wondering if there were any online resources illustrating the restoration.

[Dop]

WG774: Sadly I didn't get any good Sea Hawk pictures. The only time I had the opportunity for a good shot, I muffed it. Big disadvantage of digital cameras, if they go into standby, it takes them a while to get ready for a shot. Missed quite a few that way, or by forgetting to turn it back on again.

[treadigraph]

My regret was that I went to Biggin on the Saturday - what was shaping up into a great display was curtailed due to the increasingly poor weather - and before most of the aeroplanes I really wanted to see fly could display, such as the Dornier, the Spitfires, etc... Should have gone again Sunday instead of spending the afternoon in The Builders! Doh! Great pics Dop.

[hairyclameater]

I'm with the "keep it original" brigade. I agree that the vixen didnt deserve the IYF scheme, if they wanted a colurful, eye catching scheme, what on earth was wrong with the drone red & yellow!?! Could that be any more eye catching? Smaller logos could have been used, as they have done with their Corsair, which still looks pretty much original. After all they have a silver B25 and various aerobatic machines in their fleet - surely these are the types that should be dressed up like circus acts, not a unique example of a great British aircraft company and a memorial to the exploits of the FAA..... A gaudy Hunter I can live with as there are several "proper" examples still flying, but the vixen is totally unique.......
A lot of subliminal advertising takes place for airshows and aircraft operation this is IMHO, totally OTT and looks awful.

http://www.f4aviation.co.uk/airshow03/zeltweg/06.htm

Heres her sister ship XS577 at Llanbedr in 1990. I suppose we should be thankful as only the nose exists of this one. Dont get me started on "nose collections"!!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v147/AEROMEDIA/Scan82.jpg

And how about this for eye catching!!??

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v147/AEROMEDIA/Scan132.jpg

[ozplane]

You guys who want the Sea Vixen in original colours really don't get it do you? Read the article in the Aeroplane Monthly which explains the operators concern about the colour scheme. They took the "King's Shilling" and even so didn't break even on the operation last year. So if you want it in a RN grey/white colour scheme raid your piggy banks and get down to Bourmemouth with about £125,000 and I'm sure they'll be happy to talk to you about a repaint. And I still think it's Red Bull scheme makes an ugly aircraft look better.

[hairyclameater]

No, I get it alright and who said I want it back in RN colours!? The drone scheme looked fine.....

[REF]

It should make a differance if people like the design, colour scheme or any other aspect of this aeroplane, we should all be thankfull that it is flying.