Can I hover indoors

[bugdevheli]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v28/eboki/not%20sophs%20stuff/DSC_0169.jpg

Knocked up a little home-built job last week. Question is, can I legally hover it in my barn (big tall barn)?

[ec135driver]

Why?

Don't want to get it wet?

[bugdevheli]

ec135. Bit worried about bits flying off

[ec135driver]

Understandable, but surely it would be safer if they flew a long long way away?

presumbly the ac has no certification yet? insurance etc etc. I guess you have a licence judging by the R22 in the shot?

Could you set up a webcam and give us all a laugh!

You can probably tell I have no idea about the legality - sorry

[diethelm]

Looks like a subaru engine.

[ShyTorque]

Looks like a BMW K Series.

Asked 'er indoors if you can fly it indoors. She said no, she's just dusted!

[Thomas coupling]

Christ, I'd rather drive a sinclair 5 the wrong way down the outside lane of the M1, I think. What will you use for a windscreen - clingfilm, budgie.

I used to fly something similiar when I was about 10, with about five lolly sticks in a disc shape, that flew indoors until it hit the fridge or TV and then it exploded into smithereens again :eek:

[Ascend Charlie]

If it gets a bit out of shape in the hover, wooden tit be better if you were outdoors, to have a bit of space to gather it in? Don't want to bump into a barn wall or the ceiling or anything.

There will be lots of recirculation, so any dust or horse droppings will very quickly make visibility zero.

Lots of bolt ends hanging in the breeze from the blade grips - should sound like angels singing, as you blindly slice your way through the barn doors!:8

[diethelm]

Shawn, Rich & Nick............this is a job for a test pilot.........

[rotorusa]

Looks like the view out front is somewhat obstructed. The view out the sides on the other hand seems magnificent. You'll get an appreciation for what it's like to be a fish, if nothing else.

[reynoldsno1]

Well, there's some guys down about latitude 45S who do it for a living - helping to dry out newly laid concrete floors in "largish" buildings.....honest:ok:

[Specnut727]

Some time ago I heard of a R22 being used to dry the coating on a hangar floor in Christchurch !

I assume it was legal, as there didn't seem to be any fuss when details were made public.

Not sure what permissions were sought, but it may be worth some searches.

[Vfrpilotpb]

A good name for it , possibly....

" The Thong "

Vfr:D

[Harmonic_Vibe]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't there be some kind of mainrotor pitch-change mechanism? Or is it hiding there somewhere?

HV

[Devil 49]

I wouldn't, unless your barn's clear at least 5 rotor spans and 3-4 times as high as your aircraft. I've never hovered indoors, but from my experiences landing in revetments, parallel and "L," I don't think it's a good idea. It kept me very busy, dealing with sudden changes in the flow as the recirculation changed.

[helipedro]

Can it fly Off-shore IFR?

[CRAZYBROADSWORD]

christ check out the machine on the right of the pic that looks realy scary.

[Flingwing207]

Well (at least in the USA), there's nothing in the FARs differentiating between inside and outside when it comes to "in flight" and "for the purposes of flight". So if it's legal for you to fly it outside the barn, then it's legal for you to fly it inside the barn. Same goes for illegal, too - being inside a building doesn't eliminate the rules.

That brings up a side thought - those college students working on the human powered helicopter - none of them rated rotorcraft pilots, what's the call there? :8

[ppheli]

This is not the first helicopter this guy has built. Check G-BXTV on the CAA register site if you don't believe me - that was "Bug 1", and I recall "Bug 2" had a green cabin (seen at the Kilpeck fly-in some years ago, roaded in/out) so this is at least "Bug 3".

And all most of you can do is rant on about how you would not fly in it. No one is asking you to! Just because you have a bigger chopper does not give you the right to criticise someone with bigger b***s than you.

I say - let the guy fly, and to the minority that answered the "flying indoors" question, well done for keeping on subject

bugdevheli - just no standing behind horses, right?? ;)

[Vfrpilotpb]

Would this not contravene the flight near buildings rule? and if in a barn it would become a little hard to see what was around you with all the dust and hay/seeds being hoovered up and spat down again,

Do a tethered flight!

Vfr

[MD900 Explorer]

Budgevheli

Give it a go and video the experience for us, but i should maybe hang in my 50 Norwegian Krone here. I would definatly be wearing a helmet, as you never know whats going to hit you in the bonce once inside, and if your barn is not as big as what Devil 49 suggests then you may be wise to get an extension on your barn before trying, or it could end in tears.

Vfrpilotpb i don't think rule 5 counts for inside buildings....does it? :E

Let us know how you get on.

Regards

MD :ok:

[RobboRider]

And all most of you can do is rant on about how you would not fly in it. No one is asking you to! Just because you have a bigger chopper does not give you the right to criticise someone with bigger b***s than you.

ppHeli, Your not getting a bit touchy are you?:confused:

Thomas Coupling has been the only one who said anything about not being keen to fly it. And that was fairly light hearted and followed it with sensible comments.

I thought in all every post has been either supportive, sensible or informative (or humourous).

[bugdevheli]

Thanks for the feedback so far. I realize that when you post on prune, you have to be prepared for all comments, so no problem with a bit of urine extraction. As observed, this is not the first machine that I have built. MK 1 Bug hovered on tethers but had insuffient tail rotor authority. It was powered by a 500cc Rotax. MK 2 Bug was a development from MK1 this time powered by a K series BMW unit. the carbon composite boom and belt drive system on this machine proved to be unreliable. MK3 as you see in the picture, is almost ready for a ground run. When I raised the question of testing such a machine indoors, the man from the CAA could not give a positive answer. I was therefore interested in Pruners comments. Regarding the effects of turbulence when operating a rotor system indoors. I have conducted a series of tests using a fifth scale rotor test rig in an enclosed enviroment , and feel confident that the feedback rate of rotor induced turbulence given that a seven to one ratio of rotor span to barn space is observed, even I as a NON RATED LEARNER can handle . Should Buggy not post on Prune again you will know I got my sums wrong. ppheli this machines got a bigger kick:) .

[CRAN]

Bug,

How many rotor diameters is the barn roof above you?

I heard of a case a couple of years ago when a guy with a Rotorway tried something similar and created suffiecient pressure drop under the barn roof that it callapsed on top of him...BEWARE!

The other point to recall is that the vortical wake underneath a helicopter in the hover is unsteady and persistent. Therefore, the turbulence that you experience will get worse the longer you try to fly. So if it gets hairy, put it down sooner rather than later.

As with a couple of the other guys my advice is to run it outside - less variables and will be easier to handle.

I hope all goes well! Tally-ho.

CRAN:cool:

[Bomber ARIS]

One would hope that an Englishman's home (barn included) is still his castle.

As such, one should be at liberty to indulge the darker aspects of one's character; whether they be Morris dancing, starting a Lu Zuckerman fan club or even the flying of a kit-copter!

Surely not even the U.K. CAA have "Authority" over the airspace in one's abode :sad:


Maybe Flying Lawyer can assist with this point of law (assuming he's not too busy listening to "stories" about Bolkows falling off the back of ships. As if!!! :\ :ooh: )

[RobboRider]

Hate to disagree but I think the laws should NOT be relaxed - for Morris Dancing:E :E :E

[diethelm]

In order to pay for additional development costs, how about Pay Per View for the initial flight. Sort of like Evil Knivel jumping the Snake River Canyon.

[4ero]

:eek:

might be safer to fly it in a fenced off area (to catch the bits) rather than indoors with all that recirculation.

As far as the legality goes who knows. I would say it's your barn, your machine, etc. might want to take some precautions wrt to medical and fire. Get some extinguishers and hire St Johns.
(I think they give you a murray mint for broken bones) at least then you can say you took precautions etc etc

The web cam is a great idea.

[Chopper Newey]

Chopper Chopper Chopper chopper

Several years back, at the HAI there was a machine you could attach to your helis to keep it under control - semi tethered. It would allow you to yaw as required or control it if possible and allow you to hover at about 5 foot as well. Without the chance of rollover or tail rotor strike etc. You seem handy with your hands so a version of your own would seem easy enough to make!

Good luck, and yeah..... film it.:ok:

[lotsahueys]

As my Mother would say looking at it pondering.

' Just be careful, and give me a call when you arrive'.

Have fun brother, good on you for having a go and I take my hat off to the size of your Kahunas....I think !

[MightyGem]

Hannah Reisch did it.

[bugdevheli]

Grateful for ALL responces. You have convinced me!. Ill give it a go on some tethers, and post a picture of its first lift off. Thanks Bug

[CRAN]

Good Luck!

CRAN
:cool:

[[email protected]]

This is IFR flying then - In your Front Room!

[Pat Malone]

MightyGem is right, Hanna Reitsch did it - in the Focke-Achgelis, in the Deutschlandhalle in Munich.
She test-flew before they let the punters in and all was well, but when the audience filled the hall the machine refused to perform. Reitsch figured the extra heat and humidity was the cause and ordered the massive double doors opened, leading to later claims that she had flown through the hall.
The audience, incidentally, had come for an exhibition of German triumphs and were bored rigid by this noisy machine going nowhere.

While we're cranking out useless information, I was amazed (being a Limey) when I found out that in the USA, if you're building a RotorWay, you can go to the factory, get 7.5hr dual training, then even if you have no other flying experience you can go home and hover your own machine until your teeth fall out - as long as you don't go anywhere. I think they may have lifted the minimum to 12 hours since I first found this out, but I pretend I don't know that and tell it the old way, sound better.

[RobboOnly]

I'm sure James Bond must have done it at some time too. And Tom Cruise in MI.