First leap into networking!!

[BoeingBoy]

Hi All, (again)

Thanks for the answers to the thread related to networking via the mains. I have now ordered broadband from BT and await my free modem et al.

However I now look to setup a wireless network with the two desktops and the lappy sharing the broadband connection via a combined router and modem.

So my question is basically if I have an 802.11g PCI wireless card in both PC's, and the 802.11b WiFi card in the Lappy. Am I OK to just connect a Belkin combined router/modem midway between the two on the first house bound socket with the filter on that inlet.

I am totally new to networking and have read so many threads about problems caused by wireless problems that I expect my life to go seriously chest up in the next few weeks.

If all I can do is get mutual internet connection then that will do, but it would be nice to set up a sharing network aswell. I am running WinXP home on all machines with SP2 installed.

I note that SP2 gives network and WiFi set up wizards in control panel, is it worth me using these?

Yours, frightened of new technology boundaries, BB:bored:

[mikedurward]

Hiya BB,


If you have not bought any wireless equipment yet, try a netgear dg834g. It is a combined BB Moden, Router, Switch and 54Mb wireless connection. It is so simple to set up tos frightening. This will share your BB connection with anything that is connected to it. I bought mine from www.misco.co.uk and got a free usb2 adapter for the old lappy. So all in all cost £104 inclding VAT and delivery.
Great Product.


Mike

[Ausatco]

G'day BB,

I think your scheme sounds fine. I think you said in a post on another thread that you had a large house, 2 storey perhaps?

If there are any brick or stone walls or if the floor between storeys is concrete (you could be in a converted warehouse for all I know!) then wireless range will be adversely affected. Signals passing at an angle through that kind of material are more affected than those passing at right angles. So siting of the wireless modem/router/switch can be quite important in a large house.

Your plan to put the it somewhere in the middle, between the two fixed computers, is a good one. That will also maximise the signal for the lappy as you move it around the house.

Choice of equipment is up to you. If you think wireless range might be an issue then suss out equipment that will allow you to upgrade the antenna. A more efficient antenna (at extra cost, of course) will increase the range significantly. You would probably have to mount it remotely from the router and connect it with a cable. All the kit to do that will be provided by the manufacturer if the option is available. One of my D-Link (http://www.dlink.com) items had that option, though I never pursued it because range with my basic setup was ok. You can get a basic idea of what's involved if you start browsing here (http://www.dlink.com/products/?pid=325).

Also, it's a good idea to keep all your equipment in the same brand and matched product lines. Many manufacturers use proprietary techniques to double the speed of wireless links (eg, my D-Link 11Mbs 802.11b network runs at 22Mbs. D-Link also does an 11g product that runs at 108Mbs instead of the nominal 54) but to get that advantage the kit at each end has to match, otherwise it will fall back to the basic standard speed.

Re the network - if you can get the internet to all the computers via your wireless modem/router/switch then you have all the communication channels you need to set up a proper network.

AA

[BoeingBoy]

Thanks Guys,

I have a Prism (GlobespanVirata, Inc.) 802.11g wireless adapter in the main desktop that came with it. It has an internal aerial.

I already have a Belkin 802.11b WiFi card for the lappy that works fine in hotels etc.

My plan was to buy a Belkin combined modem/router and sit that on the main input to the house. It would be downstairs about 50' from PC2 which at present has no Wireless capability so I presume sticking with a Belkin (802.11g) adapter would be best. This PC would be at the end of a corridor and across a room from the router so line of site would see a shallow angle across an internal brick wall and kitchen units (Not good?)

The main PC is upstairs and although nearer at around thirty feet, line of site would see one internal brick wall crossed at right angles and one floor crossed at about 30deg.

I guess there's only one way to find out!!:uhoh:

My other question is whether I need a new faceplate on the house inlet. I read something about and MDK plate!!? Is this just a combined socket and filter, or something that I need?

Thanks for all your help. Flying a Boeing is so easy after all this stuff!:ugh:

[SoftTop]

Never played with wireless so this is a stab in the dark .....

can you get your laptop to "see" the PC? If so, you can wander around with the lappy and check the coverage inside your home. If that works, you can then play with the PC in various locations and optimise the siting of a permanent wireless router/hub/modem.

There was an article in PCW either last month or the month before that pointed to some wireless diagnostic/sniffer software (freeware or shareware from memory) that would identify wireless access points and indicate their openness. If I can find that when I get home tonight, I'll point you at it.

Good luck

ST

[Ausatco]

BB,

If Belkin does the proprietary speed enhancement I mentioned in my last post then the PC you're buying the Belkin card for should talk nice and fast with your modem router.

The other connections will be at the nominal speed - the other PC (straight 11g) at 54Mbs and the lappy on 11b at 11Mbs.

802.11b (11Mbs) is heaps fast enough for Internet - it's faster than most broadband (eg, nearly 20 times faster than a common 512K ADSL connection), so it won't be the limiting factor at all in that regard - you'd know that from your hotel connections.

You only need the faster links if you'll regularly be moving large files around the network between computers. You'll have that ability between the PCs with their 11g links. It won't be as fast as a 10/100 ethernet, but fast enough unless your requirements are critical.

The lappy will be slower on file transfers, but perfect on the internet.

I reckon you'll be ok, you just have to get them all talking to each other, or rather, talking to the router.

Softop's idea is a good one - get the lappy talking to the router first, connect to the internet then walk around the house and see if there are any low signal issues. On my lappy XP reports signal strength (Excellent, very good, medium and poor, or words to those effects) and link speed (it varies with signal quality) when you hover on the icon in the system tray. If yours does too then you can get a rough idea of wireless link quality with that. Particularly test that signal path that passes at a low angle through the brick wall.

AA

[SoftTop]

Found it. Have a look at http://www.netstumbler.com

ST

[BoeingBoy]

Thanks Soft top.

I am guilty here of running two threads that are now merging. My apologies to the Mod.

My first mistake in all this was to hope that I could buy a combined router/modem (I've bought the Belkin one) place it centrally in the house and let all three comupters access it wirlessly. Having just taken it out of the box I find that at least one computer has to be connected via the LAN cable, which is no problem, as the router will just have to live in the study next to the main PC, but that now makes it a long way from the other two pooters with several walls in the way.

Can I operate the modem router on it's own without connecting to the PC? and just access the BB from it? or do I have to go the whole hog and set up a network regardless.

Sorry to be a pain, but the web sites make it look easy, and already I have complications!

[Ausatco]

Folks,

Does BB need an access point, or can he do this with a modem/router?

I'm thinking he can do it with his modem/router, but he may have to have an initial wired connection to set up the wireless in the router and get one computer (maybe the lappy) communicating wirelessly. Then he can disconnect the wire and use the now wireless lappy to tweak as needed while working on the two PCs wireless connections.

Your thoughts?

AA

[Naples Air Center, Inc.]

Ausatco,

BoeingBoy should have no trouble just using the wireless modem/router to do what he wants. 802.11g and 802.11b are compatible with each other. So there is no problem with mixing and matching there.

As you said, BoeingBoy can connect to the router with his notebook via a CAT-5 Cable and configure the router.

Then, it is just a matter of moving around the area with the Notebook (connected wirelessly to the network) to test the signal strength.

Take Care,

Richard

[BoeingBoy]

Thanks Guy's. I guess that I can't do much till the BBand gets turned on Tuesday anyway, so I'll get on and install my wife's Pc with the WiFi adapter and I've also bought a new 802.11g Wifi card for the Lappy so the .11b issue is not a problem anymore.

I will have to sit down and read the disk that came with the router tomorrow. I have just been to SKG and back reading the paperwork that came in the boxes but there's not a lot in there.

I need to grasp the basics of setting up the network first I guess.

One minor point is that all three pooters are running WinXp home with SP2 installed. I notice that there's a Wifi network wizard in control panel now, is that any good or should I stick to using Belkins own software?

BB

[419]

Sorry to change the thread slightly, but I'm thinking of doing exactly the same as Boeing Boy, and I've got one a couple more questions.


The netgear dg834g modem/router that Mikedurward suggests looks like the bit of kit I need.
Does anyone know if this will work okay with AOL broadband (in the UK).

Also, am I correct in thinking that I could have the Modem/router connected to the telephone line without having my PC plugged into it, and then connect the PC and a laptop by wireless.
Someone told me that I would have to have a computer plugged into the modem/router for the system to work.

Thanks for any advice

419

[SoftTop]

Don't know about Netgear stuff, but, the D-Link non-wireless modem/router I have doesn't need anything conneted to it to maintain the ADSL connection. Once you set up all the ISP details in the modem/router (usually via 192.168.0.1 using a browser) you should be able to unplug or switch off all other peripherals - just leave the modem/router switched on and connected to the line.

ST

[Ausatco]

Thanks Richard.

BB
My wireless was already installed and running pre SP2, so I can't help you re the SP2 Wireless Wizard. Sorry.

419
Re AOL, can't see why any of the wireless gear we're discussing wouldn't work, BUT it is AOL you're talking about here. They're rather renowned doing things their own proprietary way thus causing many incompatibilities. I hope you can get an answer before you part with your hard-earned.

Re your second question, Soft Top beat me to it - I have the same experience as him. This was also one of Boeing Boy's issues. Barring AOL problems which may be specific to you, you should be able to have your telephone line plugged in to your modem router and your computers operating wirelessly. You will have to connect a computer via a network cable first to configure the wireless part of the router, then you should be able to disconnect it and do it wirelessly on all computers from then on.

Edited to acknowledge Soft Top's and my posts crossing .

AA

[BoeingBoy]

I took the plunge and thought I'd fire everything up to check the hardware and have fallen foul of the fact that because the WiFi card in the main PC is not Belkins, and has no supporting software of it's own, I am forced to use Windows to conifgure the Wifi network on the main PC

Having been told in the Belkin literature to disable this feature, I had to reinstall the software for the second PC and Lappy to enable it again. Having done that I find that I can't see the web style set up page so have had to disable the windows facility in the laptop. It's not very kind of belkin to make this a one way switch, once you disable the windows option there is no way to turn it back on again that I can find.

Anyway I have managed to get all three computers to see a WiFi signal, and placing it midway in the house gives 11mbs on the wife's, 18-24mbs on mine and the laptop is good in most places. I reckon as the wifes aerial is next to a radiator and buried in a corner behind a wooden beaureu then an extension or booster should improve things a lot there.

Also once I have all three seeing a signal, what do I do to get them to see each other?, the belkin books only talk about getting the internet to work, they don't discuss the basics of networking. I presume that as there is no PC near the router location the best I can hope for is to have the laptop to configure the BB settings and then hope that all three WiFi cards will allow net access from it. I suppose I will have to forego any file sharing.

[Ausatco]

BB,

You're halfway there!!

It will simplify things now if you temporarily deactivate any software firewalls you have. Re-activate them when your network is working. If you then lose connectivity you know it's a firewall issue and not a network one.

I don't know what version of Windows you're running on your three machines - if you have XP on only one of them things will be easy (relatively speaking!) and if you have it on all, then easier again.

On a computer with XP, open the control panel, then Network Connections. In Network Tasks, click in "Set up a home or small office network"

If all your computers have XP, then you can exit the wizard and run it on each computer from Control Panel. For any computers running an earlier version of Windows you can either make a network set-up disk before exiting the wizard on an XP machine and use that, or use your XP installation disk - the wizard can be found under Perform Additional Tasks in the opening menu.

For all your computers you will be connecting to the internet through a hub (there's a selection to be made on one of the wizards pages). For each computer your connection to the Internet will be your wireless network - check or highlight that when asked. Also, when you get to it, tick the box that says Ignore network connections that are not available (or words to that effect)

You'll probably have to fiddle a bit, it's very hard to run a complete tutorial here, but this should get internet onto each machine.

Let us know when you're at this stage and we'll see if we can help with file and printer sharing.

(Useful tools are ipconfig and ping. Run them from a command window. (Start, Run, type "cmd" without quotes and OK. At the command line type ipconfig and Enter, or ping 192.168.0.1 (or whatever numbers) and Enter)

Ipconfig will tell you the address of the computer that it is run on, plus the address of the gateway. Run it on each computer and note the ip addresses. You should then be able to ping each address from each computer. If you can't there's something wrong with the network, even though the wireless signal is present, requiring further investigation.)

Let us know how you go. Good Luck

AA

[BoeingBoy]

Ausatco,

Thanks for your help here. All machines are on WinXP home SP2.

I will wait until the Broadband gets connected on Tuesday and then run the SOHO wizard and get my feet wet!

As Arny would say........I'll be back!!

[BoeingBoy]

Well, to update, I have set up the two desktops and the lappy to use the Belkin Modem/Router and all three see the router and use the internet/mail with 128bit encryption with no problems....so far so good!

However I then ran the Windows SP2 wizard for setting up a wireless network. Entered the settings using a different name for the network other than the 'Belkin54g' network showing as default, and then found that none of the three computers showed any evidence of seeing the new network, or could see each other, except that Desktop 2 has shown a prevalence for dropping start up programs since then. A restore to a point prior to the network seems to have solved most of the problems on that front.

As I write all three are seeing the internet/mail without problems, but I suspect that I have to adapt the default Belkin network to see files and printers etc. The trouble is that as much as I read up on networking principles I cannot seem to find out how to actually 'work' the network once I've set it up. Every instruction book tells you how to get connected, but not what to do to see each computer or use the files. Clicking on everything including the group computers under network places doesn't work so I'm out of idea's.

I just knew I'd hate networking!
:ugh:

[Keef]

Something's adrift there. I set up a network here, with no bother at all, using Win XP on two machines and Win 2000 on the other. It was very simple. Plug it all together, "ipconfig /all" on each machine to get the network addresses, and "ping" to check they were all seeing each other. Then the Network setup as described above. Job done. Laptop works anywhere in the house or garden.

HOWEVER ... elder daughter (lives a mile away) wanted one at her house. I bought her a Belkin wireless modem router, and it just would NOT do what mine does. Eventually we found a website that explained that there's some kind of problem with the Belkin 4-port 802.11g device.

So we chopped that in and got a different brand - separate modem/router and wireless access pont (different brands, even), and her network was up and running fine in about ten minutes.

Her laptop works on either her or my network. It knows about both, and connects to whichever it sees.

[BoeingBoy]

Thanks Keef, it's the Belkin 4 port wireless router/modem that I'm running, so perhaps I'm screwed. Any chance of remembering where the site was?

My main requirement was to share internet access three ways and I've achieved that so I guess I'll just have to give up on anything more sophisticated.

[FJJP]

Sharing. You haven't mentioned setting up sharing on any of your hard drives or printer. I've got a main PC, another PC and laptop, The main is cable connected to a D-Link moden/router and the other PC and laptop D-Link wireless connected via the router.

From any computer I can get into and rummage about [open, close, delete, move, etc] in any other hard drive and print from any computer to either printer (laser and inkjet).

Double click on 'My Computer'. Right click on the hard drive letter and you will find a 'Sharing' button. Same for printer [control panel - printer - right click on printer - hit the sharing button]. You have to set up each hard drive and the printer to share.

[BoeingBoy]

Thanks FJJP, I think this is where the problem lies, I'll do some more reading on this and see what the other two machines are set to.

[FJJP]

I don't know if it will help, but these are my settings for the shared drives and printers [it may give you the idea]:

Main comp, 2 drives [C & E] Win 2000 Pro

You need to be logged in as administrator to do this, or have full admin rights on your profile.

C: drive - open my computer, right click, sharing, sharing tab, share this folder, new share, [give it a name eg Master], user limit max, permissions, add, select everyone, ok, ok, ok, share permissions tick allow full control change read, ok, ok, apply, ok, ok. You should now see a hand under the c: drive symbol.

E: drive - repeat of C:

Other comp, 1 drive [C] Win 98

c: drive - open my computer, right click, sharing, sharing tab, shared as [give it a name eg Slave], access type full, ok. You should now see a hand under the c: drive symbol.

Laptop, 1 drive [C] Win XP Home

C: drive - open my computer, right click, sharing and security, sharing tab, network sharing and security, tick share this folder on the network, share name [give it a name eg Laptop], tick allow network users to change my files, ok. You should now see a hand under the c: drive symbol.

Laser printer driven by Win 2000 main comp

Start, settings, printers, right click on laser printer symbol, sharing, sharing tab, shared as [give it a name, eg laser], ok. You should now see a hand under the laser printer symbol.

Inkjet printer driven by Win 2000 main comp

Start, settings, printers, right click on inkjet printer symbol, sharing, sharing tab, shared as [give it a name, eg inkjet], ok. You should now see a hand under the laser printer symbol.

[FJJP]

BB - just curious... Did you get the problem solved?

[BoeingBoy]

FJJP, Not yet, thanks for asking. I'm afraid that I have been flying the last few days so havn't had time to try anything.

As far as I can see I need to start by going around all three machines assuring that all the C drives and the printer are enabled for sharing.

Then run the 'Wireless network setup wizard' calling the network same name as the Belkin signal is called (I've changed it from Belkin54G to a single word)

Run round all manchines with the same wizard and details and hope to see something of the network when I go to 'my network places'.

Is that about right?

BB

[FJJP]

I can't remember which way round I did it [perhaps Richard can clarify], whether to set up the network first then do the sharing bit or the other way round. I suspect the former. Setup the network enables you to access the net from individual computers. Sharing allows you to access other computer members of the network [I call my network 'Home'].

It's also worthwhile searching for other topics connected with networking - there has been a lot of good, plain, simple advice on networking problems that others have experienced, particularly in relation to the use of network wizard [or not]. I seems that it can cause more problems than its worth.

Good luck! And come back to the thread to solve any problems you may have whilst you are setting up...

[Naples Air Center, Inc.]

FJJP,

You are correct, you setup the Network first, then you setup the shares. In order to have a network setup go smoothly, you want to setup a workgroup, I personally name the the network workgroup. Then, in TCP/IP I setup the network with 192.168.1.XXX (Subnet Mask 255.255.255.0), then I go in and share the directories on each comp I want shared, and for added convenience you can use Windows Explorer to Map a Network Drive so you always have your network shares from the other computers on the network handy.

Take Care,

Richard

[Keef]

I did mine and Anna's the way Richard says, and once I'd changed the Belkin device for another brand, it all worked fine.

The two commands that helped me were IPCONFIG /ALL which gave the IP address of each machine on the network, and PING to check that they were seeing each other. Once that was known, the rest was easy.

I turned off the firewalls while I set it all up, and then turned them back on afterwards. One (the Windows one) caused problems and got shut down. Zone Alarm seems to be fine, although probably not needed since the modem/routers have their own hardware firewall.

File and disk sharing under XP is very easy. I had a bit more bother with a Win 2000 machine (sharing it from other PCs), but that became an advantage since that's now the backup machine, and I like the extra security.

[BoeingBoy]

All right I lept! (First leap into networking?)

So I created restore points on all three puters and then ran the wireless network set up wizard, entered the WEP code from the router in the wizard in the process. I called the network after my house name and ran the set up on the other two. (Used memory sticks)

Ran IP config/all and pinged the other computers and got a reply from the other two.

Ran round all three setting up file sharing on C drives and Documents folders, so far so good!

Went to network places to find the other folders...Zilch!

Viewed the other networks to find that I had three! Two I had tried to set up previously (With no success) and then found that two computers were on different named networks. Sorted that out in named computer and low and behold two of the three were visible.

Configured the third on the same network and all is well. All three are seeing each other and running well. Printer is up and running and I have achieved all I wanted..............except!

It's just that I ran the network wizard calling my network 'Woodside'? and the computer has found the computers on 'MSHOME'!....Just why is that, and did the WEP ever get configured.

When I started I found the three networks that I had run, now I only see the MSHOME one. (There are no computers now on the others so I guess I'm not seeing them)

I have also changed my BT broadband setting in the router from PPoE to PPoA at Belkins suggestion, and now find that I am having to repair my wifi connection on all three computers every time I log on. I don't know the difference between the two. Frankly I'm not sure Belkin are right on this, has anyone any advice?

Finally, my thanks to all of you that replied. It was exciting and satisfying to finally see my computers networking together especially as it has been the final leap for me. It was, and is, still an area where there be dragons!, but at least I'm up and running.

Thanks again.

[Oggin Aviator]

MSHOME is the default name (that Windows assigns) of the workgroup that Richard was talking about earlier.

My WLAN now has a PC with a Linksys 54g wireless router and 2 laptops, one with a Linksys wireless 54g PC Card and the other (nice shiny new one) with a built in 802.11g NIC. The network uses WPA, shares a broadband cable Internet connection and shares 1 inkjet printer. All the components are in the MSHOME workgroup. Took minutes in XP to set up (using the wizard) and works fine.

If yours now works as you wanted it, don't try to fix it would be my advice, however it might be good to ditch your Belkin hardware and get something else (D-Link, Linksys etc) and just start again - shouldnt take long and will save you having to repair your wifi connection on all three computers every time you log on.

Oggin

[BoeingBoy]

I have reset the router to PPoE as against PPoA as Belkin advised, I was repairing every ten to fifteen minutes in the latter setting and all has been stable since changing back.

This is with BT Broadband 512k.