Yeovilton Air Day

[snafu]

Did anyone else go? What did you think?

[pulse1]

Well, from a punter,s view point, for the first time ever, I came away disappointed. All members of my party said that they would not go again next year.

The weather did not help but, for me, most of the show had an air of the mediocre. It was as if, having the Red Arrows there for the first time in a long time, they felt they didn't have to bother with the rest.

It started well, as usual, with the Belgian F-16 and that was great. The F-3 was also good especially as he seemed to have only one A/B going most of the time. Then it just sort of petered out.

The single exception after that was Captain Wade in his Firefly. That was awesome and, for a short while, the show sparkled.

The Sea Harrier display looked like they decided to fly a few Harriers around for a while, passing over the airfield once in a while on their tour round the county.

[jimgriff]

I wont go again next year.
I know these things take a whale of a time and effort to arrange, but this was a P*ss poor air day for what was once the best service of it's kind in the world.

[BEagle]

The on-line blurb promised:

"The 5 hour flying display will feature many Navy aircraft types depicting this year’s theme. The roar of fast jets will be plenty especially from some of our international visitors such as the Belgian F16 and German Tornado. The Battle of Britain Memorial Flight, the Royal Navy Historic Flight and a Vintage fly-in will provide something a little bit quieter but just as impressive. After a four year absence the world famous RAF Red Arrows Display Team will once again be performing to the Yeovilton crowds."

And did it? I have fond memories of Yeovilton Air Shows of the '50s, '60s and '70s but that was when there was a real Fleet Air Arm. I'm sure that they did their best - but was it worth £20 per adult?

It was once a major attraction but I guess that the MoD beancounters have now totally knackered things for their shareholders (the general public) and with a limited budget, the folks at Heron did the very best they could in the circumstances.

[jimgriff]

Beagle put into words in his usual erudite way what I was trying to say.

Some poor sod or sods must have worked their nuts off to make it a success but the deities conspired against them.


If you are the organiser and reading this, I do not blame you!!!!

[Twinact]

I must admit it was a thin line up, particularly on the RAF side - GR4, Jag, Harrier, Tucano, Tutor? Thank God the Belgies brought the F16 otherwise no FJ at all !!!!! (I know the SHAR was there).

However, the organisers have only themselves to blame as they chose the same day as the 2-day Biggin Hill Airshow - I know which I would prefer to attend !!!:O

[Triple Matched TQ]

Was the Navy's newest most expensive helicopter showing itself there?

[snafu]

BEagle, just to let you know, the Air Day is actually run by a civvy contractor (not sure how typical this is of other military airshows), but I agree that the current rate of commitments and operational deployments elsewhere did have an effect on the type and number of participants.

As an example, I know that the bloke who organised the assault at the end only finalised how many aircraft he was going to be able to use in the run up to the day. Jimgriff is right about the workrate required as the event approached! I'll pass on the sentiments. :ok:

Triple matched - there was supposed to be a Merlin from Culdrose, but they had to cancel for some reason. Not sure why.

[jockspice]

Snafu

Even here we have heard that the guy sorting the assault has been working his backside off. All the good will and intentions in the world is never enough when you don't have the frames to work with. Send him our best, wont you? :ok:

It's still too hot out here - all are having fun though!

[The Swinging Monkey]

Sadly I could not make this years show, and I'm extremely disapointed to read that it wasn't up to the usual standard.

I spoke to a friend of mine last night who did go, and his only comment was 'thank God for the Chinook' cos thats the only thing worth watching.

It is organised by a (female) contractor, and has been for several years, and whilst it would be easy to point the finger at her, I am certain that she would have had no control on airframe numbers and types available to her - but well done Audrey anyway.

The problem lies with the bl00dy beancounters I regret to say, simple as that.

I personally think its time that the public demanded the opportunity to see all the hardware that actually 'belongs' to them, and that they have paid for! So come on all you airships from all three services, tell old Baffhoon that the public has a right to have a look at their kit going thru its paces

Kind regards to all
The Swinging Monkey
'Caruthers, I need a large Grouse now old man'

[elderforest]

The Navy guys & gals at Heron did a stirling job with what they had - I think they deserve great credit.

Worth the money alone for the single-engine F.3 display (who 'aborted due to weather !?') and RNHF Sea Hawk cartridge start . . . whahey !

We all know it's the bean counters who rule the waves. Nothing the show organisers can do to change that.

Many thanks to all concerned for their time and effort - a great day out.

ian.
(elderforest).

:cool:

[Airbedane]

The organisers were stuffed by weather, unfortunately, which meant that BBMF and others cancelled early. They didn't really stand a chance after that.

'Can't vouch for the rest of the show, but I thought the R-R Spitfire was outstanding - or, at least it was from where I was sitting.......;) ;)

[AllTrimDoubt]

Sorry to hear this year's show was disappointing - but not surprised I'm afraid! Yes, you're right about the civvy contractor organisation and I'm sure those involved on the FAA military side will have done their best with what was abailable but...

As a participant in previous years, people were disappointed with some of the hosting in the past:

1. No participating aircrew enclosure near the flightline. Visiting aircrew refused access to Officers enclosure on the grounds they had "not paid"?

2. Meals in the JR dining hall at the far end of the airfield (also including the non-show day of Sunday)?

3. Nothing - transport - or facilities for crews "waiting" throughout Sunday for departure on Mon?


A lot of people said "Won't be coming back next year!" Bear in mind, apart from those directed to appear by the MOD participation committee, most folk volunteer their time for these events.

Good hosting=happy aircrew=successfull airshow=happy public=good attendance (even if competing with Biggin!)

It pains me to have to write this given our previous legendary hosting record as FAA. (I stress once again, this entire sorry situation is not down to individuals @ Sqn level)

We need to buck up before Air Day folds up.

[The Swinging Monkey]

AllTrimDoubt

Sir, without wanting to sound unsympathetic, who do you feel needs to 'buck up' ? The civvy contractor or the FAA beancounters?

I was under the impression that the civvy lady was only responsible for getting traders into the show, and publicity etc. Is that not the case? If it is not, and she was responsible for 'everything' then clearly complaints need to be addressed to her, and she needs to sort her act out.

I am not pointing the finger, but you patently appear to be in the know down there, and I for one would not wish to see Yeovilton Air days cease. They have been particularly good in the past, and need to continue in that vain.

Kind regards
The Swinging Monkey

[oakworth]

AllTrimDoubt,

an excellent point well made. I've been involved in Airshows from many different angles, i.e. organisor, Gp bloke responsible for coordinating attendance, as a participant etc. For years now there has been a marked reluctance from the Sqns to support these events. The reason? Well apart from the amount of time guys are spending away and a genral change in attitude of the young crews, it always boils down to how the crews are treated. It takes years to get a good reputation and one poor year to destroy it. If you don't treat the visiting cerws well then why should they come back.

During my time as a participant I sampled the best and the worst and have stayed in everything from 5 star to derelict AMQ's.

I remember, as a schoolboy, travelling all night from the Northwest in 1979 to attend Yeovilton and it was a great show. Shame it apperas to be on the slide, although it probably reflects the FAA.

[AllTrimDoubt]

Swinging Monkey

I would hate to see Yeovilton fade as an airshow - as I said we (FAA) have a reputation to safeguard! - but as Oakworth correctly states, you have to treat the aircrew (and maintainers) properly otherwise they won't come back. And it onlly takes a few poor years for the rot to set in and the reputation to disappear.

Who's to blame? Yes, I do point the finger at beancounters. I know the frontline is stretched and resources thin and often employed elsewhere. But we have to look beyond the immediate spend to the long-term gain. This is something beancounters cannot do!

As to the contractor? I'm sure the deficencies have been pointed out. If nothing has been done - or no-one has listened - to improve from previous years then we shoulder the blame.

I have been involved in airshows for several years - as a participant I too have experienced the good and the bad. I think in Yeovilton's case a long, hard look needs to be taken at what is on offer to both the public AND the servicemen involved (Sorry, me pre-pc era!).

As I said in my previous post, the guys and gals on the ground have been sold short (again) and have undoubtedly given their best.

Now is the time for some serious top-cover, firepower (and results) from above before next year.

[hairyclameater]

Thought this modern stuff was "all weather "- so why did the P3, MH53 and French stuff pull??

I too remember great shows in the 70s and early 80s when then too apparantly cash was short, especially post Falklands. But still we had some cracking shows. Cash strapped countries like Poland, Czech republic and Slovakia can all organise massive shows with a phenomonal international line up.

Yeovilton has the oportunity to have a superb static line up for enthusiasts by dragging some of the more hardy museum types out into the light. Its been done before - why noy now? If its down to "hands on decks" I'm sure some spotter/enthusiast groups would be willing to help for free.

Just down the road is a certain helicopter manufacturer with long, long links with the FAA. Why not a couple of export Lynx in the static - again its been done before.

The Red Arrows and commando assault although both great entertainmment a good show do not make.

Yeovilton shows have been lack lustre in the extreme over the past few years.

RIP a once fine air show.

[Flying Fishead]

A couple of points:

The organisation of the aircrew hosting is very much done despite the best efforts of the civilian contractor who has no real interest in anything except making money. They are trying to recover from a position about 3 years ago where there practically wasn't any aircrew hosting, and the guys at Yeovilton are fighting a losing battle to make the contractor understand the reality of an airshow versus some other "events" she may have run previously. Incidentally, contrary to what some others have posted, I understand that the feedback from aircrew has generally been positive - in some cases gushing!

As to the success of contracting out the Airshow organisation for 5 years and then supplying all the labour and work free of charge to the contractor... sounds like the normal MOD approach to life. Both barrels aimed at both feet. Particularly when they then charge for the officers' mess to put an enclosure on it's own airfield (which is why you have to pay to go in - the Wardroom has to recover it's costs somehow. Far more pertinent a question is why they ever went down the route of having a contractor in the first place: Why haven't they even got access to the contractor's accounts so they can work out whether it is a financial success or not?)

The final and most telling gripe has got to be the lack of involvement of other UK assets - where's the sense of team spirit, particularly when some VLN assets have been seen around the country for the whole display season (Lynx Pair for ex.)?

[oakworth]

'Where's the sense of team spirit?'

Times have changed, attitudes of the younger generation of aircrew, who traditionally support these events, has shifted and the interest has fallen away. You can't really force people to spend their weekends stood in front of a jet, as so much of their time is already committed to the Service.

It comes back to volunteers and when you have competing, higher profile shows, with a better rep, then places like Yeovilton suffer.

Maybe it's time to put the show out of it's misery. There are too many shows in the UK for the assets that are available.

[dmanton300]

I managed to score myself a free ticket for the show. So that was nice. But had I known what it was going to be like I wouldn't even have bothered to make the seven mile journey to Yeovilton WITH the free ticket. It simply wasn't worth it. The Chinook was extremely impressive, and there's always a lot to be said for an energetic F-16 display. The Fin was looking good but aborted due to "weather" (I still think it was a dodgy stbd RB-199!). Sea Fury/Sea Hawk (Happiness is Hawker and a sleeve-valve radial!) combo was nice and the T-67 Firefly is always a good performer. In years gone by that would cover about an hour of a six hour programme. . . this year that was more or less IT. The flying display was characterised more by the holes in it than the flying. Static was amazingly poor (thanks muchly to the Italians for bringing a couple Ghiblis!). . . ONE RAF FJ?!?!? And the Sea Vixen turning up but not flying ruined my day beyond any hope of redemption. . I can see a Sea Vixen a couple hundred yards away in the museum any time, No point in bringing it if you don't show it!

Have to agree with the other posters who say time to put it out of it's misery if this is the future. Had I paid £20 to get in I would have been mightily annoyed. Simply not worth it. And it used to be such an amazing day out too. . .

[whiz]

Originally posted by oakworth
You can't really force people to spend their weekends stood in front of a jet, as so much of their time is already committed to the Service.


You'd never have had to force me or anyone I served with to stand in front of their jet. As for 'much' of their time being already committed to the service... You're damn right it is, and thats the way it should be !!

[AllTrimDoubt]

Flying Fishead - Well said. The situation seems exactly as I thought, which is why I have no criticism of those at the sharp end I know to be trying to make best of the whole affair.

During my attendance last year the INDIVIDUAL hosting at Squadron level was on a par with the best shows (Thanks 702!). It was the "big picture" contractorised handling that led to the gripes mentioned. Seems sad that things still have not changed.

As to lack of support/team spirit? Simple. So many of the visiting crews wandering around trying to find somewhere to sit and watch the show last year said 'This is bad...won't be coming back here again!" Hence the poor turnout. Word gets round.

Hopefully if there really was a more favourable response from this year's crews then things might improve. But, I stress again, some Big Decisions need to be made by those who can (!) to sort this out!

Note: Some of HairyClamEaters suggestions above are just the sort of things that might start to turn around the static park!

PS The RN still doesn't realise just what an excellent asset it has with the Lynx Pair. Nothing but praise for the way the team have set themselves up and promoted the FAA around the UK. The results at RIAT in 03, and comments around this year's circuit are proof!

[gul]

Just to be different, I thought the air show was rather good. I also thought that the purpose of air shows was to display aircraft to a wide cross section of the population and provide an entertaining day out for all the family. This is something that was certainly achieved.

[SLS]

Well, what an interesting read from you all!

As for the comment from pulse1, all I can say I would like to see you try and display a Harrier. Suggest you wind your neck in!!

:yuk:

[Dirty Bleeder]

Well said SLS. Everyone who was station based put alot of time and effort into making the day a success for the visiting crews and the public, and comments like 'thank God for the Chinook' and the words from Pulse1really p:mad: me off!!!!

Add to that the fact that we had to pay £12 to bring our spouse.

Thanks to all the chaps that did pitch up, static and display. It is very much appriciated.

DB

[tickhill]

Well, I enjoyed it too.

It was a very different and much lower key affair than Waddington (the only other show I went to this year), but none the worse for that. I managed to see all the statics, all the stalls I wanted to see (something I never manage to do at the larger events) and enjoyed the displays. The fact that there were few FJs did not worry me, as I had had my fill of those at Waddington.

What I wanted to see were the vintage aircraft and the more unusual stuff (such as that VW powered flying circus and the finale). All this met or exceeded my expectations.

It would have been nice to see the BBMF again, as I might actually have been able to hear them (something that can be difficult at the larger shows). I also really missed seeing the Hunter fly (one of my all-time favorites and the only plane in the static park to get a "that's cool" from my wife), but I can accept that the weather can get in the way of the best plans.

It was also a shame that the Vixen was only there as a static. I saw it at Southport last year and had hoped to see it fly again. It would have fitted in well with the other FAA vintage planes, and this (of all shows) is the one where it should display. Why did it not fly? Cost?

But all in all, I really enjoyed it. Staying on the base with my family (as guests of a friend who is based there), and getting into the wardroom enclosure (and meeting the Reds) certainly contributed to a good time, but I would have enjoyed it as a regular visitor.

[pulse1]

SLS, Dirty Bleeder,

This thread has provided a channel for some of us to provide feedback to the show organisers as to how we felt about it. One of the first rules of marketing is to get customer feedback.

Being told that we cannot offer our opinions because we cannot do it ourselves is not particularly helpful to anyone.

I have attended the Yeovilton Air Day many times, over the years, and this year was the first time I have been disappointed. I felt it was important to say why because it may help to make it better in future. One thing that has always made Yeovilton better than any other show for me was the way that they used to create a feeling that it was a show, designed to be entertaining.

The first Air Day I ever went to was an example. It started with the Swordfish and, as it landed, the commentator had us all listening to the wonderful sound of its engine. Then about 6 F4's came in very fast from behind the crowd and made us all jump. That's the type of showmanship which we used to expect at Yeovilton.

Last year there was a similar thread here and I was the first to pour praise and thanks on all the participants and, especially, the FAA contribution. The Harrier contribution last year was brilliant. The Lynx Duo display was incredible.

I do not need to be able to fly a Harrier to decide that I was not entertained by one just as I do not need to be able to play a violin to decide that I did not enjoy a concert.

I was in a party of seven (one FAA member) and none of us is likely to go again next year unless we hear that it is going to be better. This was the first time I had bought tickets in advance too.

I do hope to be there again next year.

[AllTrimDoubt]

I would hope that Pulse1's feedback woild be taken onboard, but I think the distinction needs to be made between the organisers (ie flying participation etc) and the framework they are forced to operate within by the contractors.

DB - I know the effort the Ship's Company/aircrew etc will have expended and it typifies the whole approach to airshow organisation (using outside "event" contractors) that spouses were charged to attend what should also be a family event in support of the Squadrons. I'm not suggesting a free-for all, but genuine NOK should not have to pay to attend. (The general public do that in anticipation of seeing a full and varied air and ground display that showcases the role of the Armed Forces, and Fleet Air Arm in particular @ Yeovilton.)

[Dirty Bleeder]

Pulse1

My gripe was not with the fact that people were expressing their opinion of the 'Airshow' and its decilne since the 80's or with the suggestions to turn it around or call it a day.

My gripe is with the singling-out of individuals who were trying hard to make it entertaining for the public, with the extremely small and constantly changing goal posts they have to deal with in the twilight hours of the last British fighter.

I think they achieved the aim, rather than not bothering at all.

Long live the spirit of the FAA :ok:

DB

[Neil Porter]

Just to add on some peoples comments re the Lynx duo "Black Cats" who are very impressive - i had display at my Abingdon Fayre Air & Country show back in May the less seen solo Lynx HMA8 of 'HMS Marlborough Flt', 815 NAS flown by Lt Coulton (ex Black Cats!) & Lt Dowling- an equally impressive display and top marks to the FAA for sending it....

[Regie Mental]

Neil, are you involved with the Abingdon Fayre Air & Country? Just thought it strange that you've never mentioned it before....:8

[Neil Porter]

Its possible Regie Mental....:E

I hope Yeovilton Airdays continue and get the support they need..

[Low Ratio]

But what about the Spitfire!;)

[timex]

VL Air days have steadly appeared to get quieter each year, gone are the days when the guys from the Station could bring in the family for the day at no cost (and spend loads on the kids!). This does make the place seem half empty, however I also believe Biggin Air day was on the same day so what can you expect. So sadly no BBMF and no Blue Eagles.

The civvies who run these things do seem to get a good deal from pusser, free labour for 3-4 days for setting up and taking down displays, car park attendants, medical cover etc etc.

Weather wasn,t great either. Guess its only a matter of time before it finishes. Personally I think it was the worst one I've seen in nearly 20 yrs.

The Lynx display was fairly comprehensive with all variants on show. (just outside 815 Sqn, miles away)

Junglie Assault was good though...............:ok:

[Neil Porter]

Low ratio - if you mean at Abingdon re Spit - yes it turned up this year & all went ok..

:ok:

Went to the Yeovilton show in 02 & 03 & as soon as the show had finished, you were told to leave the base by uniformed personnel (even a family who had just bought a burger were told to 'hurry up') - did that happen this year & is that normal practice on an operational station??

[fradu]

It's always been like that Neil, the airfield has to be cleared of civilians by a certain time.