Parc Aviation and Air Asia

[discoinsert]

Anybody have any information regarding Parc Aviation's B737 type rating program with work afterwards with Air Asia?

[Arrowhead]

Dont know much about this scheme - but I can tell you that another scheme has stopped sending pilots to Air Asia for line training because there was a lack of sim availability and training captains. (this info is now 3 weeks old and things may have changed a little though)

[FLYbyWIT]

Why dont you call Parc and get the details direct from them, and then you will have all the info you need. If you get past selection you are guranteed a job. Lack of training capt's is bo%%*#$s!
Hey Global ya muppet, me know your reading this :-) and you firefighter bloke with the black tie me knows your about too.

[Kirks gusset]

Parc did some pre-selection days a couple of months ago and also offer a type rating scheme to get you on the air asia band waggon.

If you look at the agency boards, you will see that air asia were looking for TRE/TRI on 737 some time ago, but they may well have the people on board now.

[TwoDeadDogs]

hi folks
It is more than ironic that the Air Asia thing is being steered, for want of another word, by an Irish captain,who has never paid for a TR in his life. The latest batch of recruits have come from the Bristol area. Buy a TR, earn $24000 pa for two years, which is not enough to pay off your loan so you end the contract effectively still in debt,not to mention having no pension contributions or savings put by for the lean times.
regrds
TDD

[License to Fly]

Agreed, there is one thing being asked to pay for your type rating and then earning a good salary - but Air Asia is surely not playing the game.

As scroggs has said on another thread, its a downward spiral and I think this shows the effect already. Where will it end ? Its difficult but if the applications stop the companies will have to change their recruitment plans - I for one will not apply to Air Asia.

Remember we have all paid 18 months of our lives and c.£30K-£60K just to get a frozen ATPL....

[LVL CHG]

Yeah, it sounds like everyone is in debt in this business anyway. You'll always be in debt if you have to pay for your training. So, what are the benefits in this case? Here are some:

1. Get a type and valuable 737 experience that you can apply elsewhere upon your return to Europe

2. Fly to exotic destinations for a few years - probably more interesting than Belfast and Leeds

3. Surround yourself with hot Malaysian chicks who actually look at your puny salary as "huge" - you can still live well in Southeast Asia

4. Enjoy experiences that you can reflect upon when you are eventually flying for FR or Easy in the rain showers between STN/LTN and Berlin

Sure, you'll be exploited and taken advantage of in some way (just expect that and you won't be so upset). Debt is a constant in this business. Interesting flying experiences in exotic countries are not... Hopefully you would have some fun memories to reflect upon later.

[VHF1]

folks, just listen to whats being said here......get real, a couple of points on the AA deal

1. according to latest reports the next route and possible base is Jakarta....home to the most recent bombing at the aus embassy.....think folks bombs are bad for business

2. a mate of mine who has a 737 rating was offered the job....provided he paid €10,000 up front for TWO sim sessions and an LST!!!

3. If based in KL, the cost of living as spun by the doctors at parc is not that cheap, expect to pay London/dublin prices for accomodation.....and all for the massive salary on offer.

Give me belfast or LBA, at least I can get a train home when the tears start to flow!!!!

[Freaky Styley]

I can't believe that you have to think up such a random argument to try to persuade people not to work with Air Asia. Why don't you just let people make up their own minds?
I'm sure that people who are thinking of going there are capable of finding out the relative cost of living compared to their salary. Even the rough guide, or lonely planet give you an idea!
As far as the 10,000 euros for 2 sims is concerned, I know people who have got jobs with Air Asia through Parc who haven't had to pay this - so either your mate is a one off, or you are misinformed.
As far as bombs are concerned - I am sure that Air Asia do some form of research and risk assessment before opening up new bases, and even if they don't, a bomb in a country doesn't necessary cripple every airline that goes there.

[Phileas Fogg]

Of course, there's never been a bombing in Leeds or BELFAST, has there?

[vlad-the-inhaler]

I heard that Air Asia also require that all their first officers spend their days off making Nike trainers in a sweatshop in KL. Any truth to this?
If you work overseas, and have been recruited in the UK to do so, you should be on Expat terms (higher salary, living accomodation, tropical clothing allowance, several free flights a year, etc) People happily trotting off to the current deal (none of the aforementioned terms) arent giving themselves enough credit, once AA know they can get away with this behaviour, it will become an industry norm. Good luck to you, but youre not just lowering the bar for yourselves but other pilots as well.

[VHF1]

Dear Mr. freaky streaky,
the information as posted in my earlier thread IS NOT INACCURATE......NOR AM I MISINFORMED. Perhaps either you work for PARC or are the aforemention Captain. Just for the record, all of the information is correct, and if necessary I can provide a copy of the e-mail from parc in which these terms are explained. You would expect someone like that to have the decency to wear a balaclava and sport a sawnoff shotgun for the occasion. I think you sir have a serious neck to try and argue for something thats a cross between slavery and self prostitution!!!

you pillok

[Freaky Styley]

Ahhhh. Guess I won't be seeing you in KL then. Shame, you seemed like such a nice person too.

[vlad-the-inhaler]

Silly, silly boy... oh well, if Air Asia hadnt gotten hold of you, I expect you would have bought into time share apartments or some Nigerian fraud scheme. A fool and his money are soon parted.
Fair play to AA, one born every minute!

[LVL CHG]

Fly a 737 and hang out with gorgeous Malaysian chicks who actually think you're rich - that doesn't sound too bad to me for a year or two.

Don't fool yourselves - nobody enters the airline industry for the money. Everyone will have some training debt - as long as you can actually get the training and experience, you might as well go somewhere exotic... You can always return to Europe later with some great stories...

[kwaiyai]

This is very interesting, Air Asia recruiting from UK!. Last I heard was Malaysian DCA were not to Happy about AA bringing in Foreigners. Good luck to anyone applying though.
You can PM me if you like B7*7 FO working for Airline in Malaysia.
Ta Da, Regrds.:cool: :mad:

[Dylsexlic]

Money? Flying?? Money?? Flying?? I'm confused. Which one is now the reason for wanting those pips on our shoulders and the wings on our pyjamas then? It used to be so civilised in the olden days.....


Dylsexlic yes......but at least I can spell "Cocktip"

[Utrinque]

PARC and AA are businesses - they will try to keep (as all businesses do) costs down in order to be more profitable.

I have paid for the TR. Yes, I would like to go to Emirates and have a huge salary, house and expat bundle but none of this is possible until you have spent time with a low cost carrier earning shrapnel for a couple of years.

Air Asia and PARC enable you to get your foot on the first rung of the ladder - without them I would still be asking questions on PPRUNE.

I understand that no-one wants to pay for a TR however, whilst people are doing so, the situation will not change. Low cost carrier's can only maintain their low charges if they have minimal overheads. Therefore self-funded TRs are here to stay.

I will treat these two years as a learning experience. As for the salary - if your only debt is the TR, you can live fairly comfortably out there given the weakness of the currency.

Bear in mind that the monthly assessments are over-subscribed, lots of people are doing this. My advice, if you can afford it - give it a go.

[Luke SkyToddler]

Hey people go back a step, and explain to some of us what this thing is and where are they advertising it? I can't see anything on their website.

Is this one of the "pay 10 grand for a sim assessment" things, or do they actually assess you and offer you work before you part with the money? And do you get to choose where to do your rating, or do they make you go to some European TRTO of their choice and take a big fat kickback like Ryanair do?

The reason I'm asking is that if it's a Malaysian (i.e. non JAA) licence that you end up holding, then surely you could put a FAA-issued 737 rating on it, which is only $10 or $12,000 US dollars. Or even an Australia / NZ 737 rating because I know the Malaysian CAA recognize those licences.

If that was the case it would make a big difference to the economic sense of it, when you compare it to the people that are shelling out over £20,000 to get into Ryanair / Easyjet.

[Utrinque]

Luke,

It is not advertised on the site. You have to ring PARC and ask to get on the waiting list for an assessment. They will send you an application form which breaks down what follows the assessment if you are successful.

Each month there are 12 candidates for the assessment - the average is 4 guys getting through each time. The assessment costs 800 Euro. This covers three psychometric Tests, a psychological interview and a 40 minute sim ride (normally on the 737-200 in Dublin).

The assessment is fair - whether you get through or not they will send you feedback so you can see where to get it right next time. Not many assessments offer feedback.

You can not choose where you do your type rating. 3 weeks in Dublin (ground school), 2 weeks in Luton (sim), 1 day in sweden (base check)

You are guaranteed a job on completion of the TR. The TR costs the same as everywhere else - £20,000.

[Pilot Pete]

Facts as sent out in their contract of employment to a friend of mine;

1. Employment contract for 3 years, starting after your training and on your first 'duty day', extendable.
2. Salary RM3,500 (Ringgits) per month at roughly 7 to the pound, no mention in the contract of any increases during the three year period.
3. Non-compulsory EPF (Employee Provident fund) 11% employee contribution, 12% by company.
4. Allowances. Sector Meal Allowance only.
5. Company bonuses, at discretion of company. 50% held back for expats until completion of contract.
6. Share Options. Only after 3 years service.
7. Minimum Hours. You are required to complete 2000hrs minimum during your contract period.
8. Notice Period. You are required to give 6 months notice during and subsequent to the initial 3 year contract (provided you have completed 2000hrs). Company can give you only 3 months notice.
9. Uniforms provided.
10. Employer can change your base with 4 weeks notice.
11. Medical Expenses Allowance. RM600 per year.
12. Annual Leave. 28 days per year including Public Holidays, the company reserving the right to increase or decrease that number.
13. Employee required to have a land-line phone and a mobile at your cost to allow the company to contact you at ANY time.
14. Accommodation. Required to live within 60minutes of Flight Ops Centre.

Make your own choice as to whether you think these good enough or not.

PP

[Luke SkyToddler]

Hang on Pilot Pete that's only about £500 per month - that can't be right surely?

God help us all if it is :mad: :yuk: :mad:

[Puritan]

ROFLOL..... if these are indeed the terms & conditions, such employment is fit only for the truly desperate ( read, 'stupid' ) or the elsewise unemployable ! (imho).

I.e. putting it into perspective, UK based aircraft cleaners ( and a fine bunch of people they are too ) have better T&C's, and where indeed this is even less than many cabin crew ( where they, in turn, earn less than the cleaners - go figure :} ) !

[Number Cruncher]

Speechless.

I've just been to Malaysia/Thailand. The cost of a beer is more than here in London! Surely there must be something missing? Big sector pay??

This is supposed to be a respected profession. How are the pilots expected to go about their duties professionally when they are treated as such.

Then again, at the time I didn't complain at shedding out £16 inclusive on one of their flights. I guess a compromise is needed, but then again there are much more fare paying passengers than wannabe airline pilots out there....

[Phileas Fogg]

But the aeroplane takes 150 (ish) fare paying passengers but only 1 Captain & 1 Wannabee Pilot!

[Utrinque]

Including sector pay it is RM6500 a month - which is just short of £1000.

Not great but "c'est la vie" at the moment.

[jollypilot]

I would like to clarify;

The contract Pilot Pete talks of is not Parc's, but one offered to Oxford Graduates through a scheme with GECAT.

Parc guys (i believe) get paid $2000US a month.

The contract recieved at GECAT has NO mention of any allowances except meal allowance. The presentation given to Oxford graduates gave RM3000 a month as allowances, although I reiterate - the contract itself does not mention these allowances.

JP

[haughtney1]

"Including sector pay it is RM6500 a month - which is just short of £1000."

"Not great but "c'est la vie" at the moment"


Its funny...when I was offered a job...and informed that I was expected to contribute to my type-rating....I told them in the nicest possible way...to stick it:O ....and guess what I then got offered the job anyway (and no I didnt know anyone) earning over 3 times the above monthy figure...(on turbo-props)

So Utrinque as you say "c'est la vie"

moral of the story..? dont prostitute yourselves people.

Oh and I think it was Petes great CV job that got me the interview!


Cheers H

:ok:

[Phileas Fogg]

(You are guaranteed a job on completion of the TR)


Are you guaranteed, are you b*llocks!

Are you trying to say there is not a clause in the contract in the case of 'force majeure' let's say should an airline go tits-up?

Any company that tells you anything in aviation is guaranteed is, at best, being economical with the truth.

[Utrinque]

Air Asia has just placed an order for an extra 50 aircraft - boeing and airbus are fighting over the remaining 30 to make it 80 new aircraft. This airline is expanding and getting stronger. The LCC market in the far east is just beginning.

The job is there if you pass the Type Rating; there are no hidden clauses - I have seen the contract.

[Phileas Fogg]

So if there is no force majeure clause in the contract then you are clearly being misled.
What if AA and Parc have a major falling out, Parc have offered you a contract but AA wouldn't want to take any more Parc pilots. AA don't have a problem, they haven't signed a contract with you, Parc would have a problem but they'd probably terminate your training claiming force majeure or similar, you'd be the one with the problem.
And should 9/11 re-occur during your training but this time such an incident occur in Asia, do you really believe that a contract with Parc is a guaranteed job? Dream on!

[Utrinque]

All fairly negative stuff PF. If we all got out of bed wondering when and where the next 9/11 was going to happen it would be a depressing place!

Do you get in your car each morning wondering if you are going to survive the journey?

If it makes you sleep any better - a good deal of Asia is Moslem and therefore a 9/11 type attack there; while not impossible is a little less likely.

If AA and PARC fall out then yes it would be a drama - but given the amount of money invloved another 9/11 in Asia is more likely.

However if you wish to be pedantic about the 'guaranteed' you are right - nothing in life is ever guaranteed - but this is as close as you can get to it.

Sleep well whilst I dream on! :ok:

[Phileas Fogg]

Utrinque,
I speak the truth and I make no apologies if that offends. No, I do not get out of bed in the morning in a depressive state however I have been around this industry for some 25 years so I do know what goes on.
Air Asia are taking pilots from several agencies, not only Parc, if one particular agency were to provide below-par pilots then AA would simply terminate that agency and increase pilot input from the other agencies.
From what I've heard of the standard of training being provided by one particular agency, no name mentioned but you work it out, it would not surprise me at all if that agency found it's Air Asia contract being terminated.
The Malaysian CAA are paying very close attention to this operation, AA can't do anything without the CAA say-so and if pilots are arriving below-par, well watch this space. What 'amount of money involved' are you talking about, Parc charge for the type rating, take all the profits, there is no kick-back to AA, they simply provide the trained pilot to AA so in a monetary sense, why are AA so far supposedly in bed with Parc?
No, I am not trying to spread doom and gloom. Too many guys, perhaps through naivity use that word 'guaranteed' however it seems you agree that a job with Air Asia, through Parc, is not guaranteed.

[homerj]

We all know this.
When is is ever guaranteed

[PPRuNe Towers]

One other item of significant concern in buying a rating, especially considering the pay levels in the Far East, is discovering business plans have had to change. The company wants to expand, would take you on but there simply is no 737 or A320 airframe for you to fly.

Those higher up in the food chain have known this for a long time as the market shifts lease rates ever upward for these two types. 10/15% up so far this year and, sadly, shifting out of the sights of some startups and their business plans.

Far Eastern leasing companies and airlines have finally gone public on this. A critical shortage of aircraft and thus no seats for us to populate whatever our level of experience. The biggest leasing company out there estimates only 20 airframes being available for lease next year. Many companies are relying on a major US carrier to go bust but demand is so high some expect none or just very few of the airframes would leave the States.

This may all seem very dry, distant and remote from your enthusiastic desire to fly but at the end of the day you have to pay off loans or finance and make a living.

Caveat Emptor

Regards
Rob Lloyd