Ejector Seats

[Gazman]

When aircraft are scrapped for whatever reason, where do the (inactive) ejector seats get sent to ?
I'd love to get hold of one if the price was right.

Gaz

[SSSETOWTF]

Could just be an urban myth, but I heard in a crewroom once that Martin Baker have some sort of lease arrangement with the end user - you effectively rent the seat from them and pay for it completely when you use it. Have absolutely no idea how true this is though...

[Tarnished]

Gazman,

MB, despite being the greatest company in the world ever.... being a two time user are not known for their cheapness,


before jimgriff gets to tell you look here

http://www.ejectorseats.co.uk

if you get a good deal, buy two and I'll buy one off you.

T

PS you could always try one of the "other" seat makers!!

[Milt]

Tarnished

Don't leave us hanging!!

Must be 2 good stories there.

Do you wear both caterpillers?

Still buying lottery tickets?

Sat in plenty - never had to use one.

Young Tom Stoney RAAF minding his own business in a Meteor 8 had his MB fire uncommanded. circa 1951.

Unmanned Meteor made a few passes at him before going someplace else.

[jimgriff]

Decommisioned seats are availible for sale.

Thanks to Tarnished for the plug. Both his ejection stories are on the website under "Ejection Stories"
If anyone has any more stories or tales of seat use i would be really interested in the story for web publication. I have asked before and I got a few responses, but it is always nice to have new stock.
Seat pics are always welcome.

I had al;so heard that MB "lease" the seats to airforces, but have never had this rumour confirmed. Anyone out there confirm or deny this?

Come on Guys and Gals....there must be tons of tales out there.

[Tarnished]

Milt,

My stories are here:

http://www.ejectorseats.co.uk/Lightningf6_1.html

http://www.ejectorseats.co.uk/ejection_from_hunter_g.htm


As jimgriff says there are many others on this site and I would encourage others to tell their stories to Jim too.

To answer your questions:

Only got one Caterpillar which is currently missing – must ask Irvine for a replacement

Got two nice certificates from MB, have 4 ties for some reason, given spares at Farnborough lunches.

Nice certificate from Beaufort enrolling me in their Porpoise Club

Tie from Grasby Electronics for using their SARBE

Oh, and a shed load of metal in my knee, elbow and spine!!

Texas lottery I have yet to win

T

[jimgriff]

So what u after Gazman?

[Milt]

Tarnished

It used to be the 'cool' thing to do to hang on to the D ring of a parachute on the way back to terra firma and to keep it as a souvenir of the event.

Is there something similar to take over from the D ring with the later seats/chutes?

And can you confirm that the opening shock of a chute at high altitude is because the canopy opens at TAS and not IAS even though the opened canopy support will be relative to IAS.?

[Navy_Adversary]

What height was Gary Powers at when he ejected from his U2?

Surely the highest flyer to 'Take to the Silk', guess his Spacesuit helped saved him as well.

[jimgriff]

The seat and 'chute that Gary Powers used were very early examples of the kit.
He would have had a barometric release for the parachute.

I believe that he stayed with the seat until a "safe" altitude was reached.

I'm led to believe that the highest ejection was from an RAF Canberra that was testing the thyokol rocket motor which "malfunctioned" and took out the rest of the aircraft. This happened at some 65,000 feet. I'll dig out the reference and post soonest.

[Tarnished]

Milt,

The equivalent of the D ring for ejectees tends to be the seat pan handle or the face blind. It tends to be a thing the armourers present after the event - a nicely mounted handle, couple of polished cartridges from the main gun and a plaque to commemorate the event. I tend to think it was done as much as in the success of the ejection as in relief that they had not slipped up.

In most of teh modern seats the handle stays firmly attached to the seat and try as you might there is now way you can or should hang on to a heavy seat on the way down!

The IAS/TAS question is largely taken care of by the workings of the seat. The seat incorprates a "g" stop and a barometric sensor which prevent the main chute from deploying until it is below a preset altitude (typically 10k ft) and below a preset deceleration (typically 4g). In this way some of the more extreme effects of opening shock are avoided.

Seats such as the Mk 16, NACES etc have processors onboard as opposed to the clockwork devices of the Mk 2 and Mk 4 which saved me. New seats are very very clever.

None-the-less it is as close to life threatening as it can be to ensure the best chance of survival. It is not a smooth roller coaster ride - but it is far better than the alternative....

Regards

Tarnished

[airborne_artist]

A stude on the course after mine (in '79) had to abandon his 'dog after an altercation with a thunderstorm. He'd done a few civvy static line jumps and took a perfect landing - the instructor hit the centre of the only slurry pit for miles...

Another who I last saw on 706 had already got his tie aged 17 on an RN acquaint course - pilot had over-cooked a torque turn, showing off to the would-be WAFU, and the Wasp met the briny. As a mere Midshipmite he used to get the odd funny look at Culdrose when wearing it.

[Gazman]

Thanks for your answers, I'm a little closer to getting hold of a MB mk10 now:ok:


Gaz

[Wicked Rebel]

Tarnished,

I've just read the account of your Lightning ejection and as it stirred some memories, I've just checked my log book.

I was on board the Nimrod that was returning from a Survex in the Baltic when we heard your beacon go off. At the time we were at high level and in contact with Eastern Radar on our way back to St Mawgan (not Kinloss) and all we said to them was words to the effect of "Make way, Nimrod aircraft going down for Search and Rescue", followed by a rapid descent.

We on-topped the ditch location which, as you described was a mass of "boiling water", marked the location and hung around to vector the helo.

I remember that at the time we were thinking that the poor chap (if still alive) wouldn't believe his luck at having a Nimrod on-top his position so soon after ejecting. Although from what you say, you may well have still been above us as well as your partner.

We did learn that you did indeed survive (it says "Pilot OK" in my log book) although until tonight I had never learned the full details.

Glad you made it OK.

Wicked Rebel

[mbga9pgf]

Navy, think that accolade goes to the pilot of a the SR-71 crew (twin stick trainer) that broke up at top whack at operating altitude. (not sure, but you can bet on alt greater than 90 grand!). THe only reason the pilot survived (instructor bought it unfortunately) was the lack of Dynamic pressure at that altitude, and the design of the pressure suit. I believe the pilot initiated ejection AFTER breakup of the cockpit. Apparently, the SR-71 pressure suit at that alt inflates like a giant balloon further reducing risk of harm from flailing. Not sure if you can find about it on the net, as the story came from a book.

MBGA

Sorry, was an A-12 (SR-71 forerunner) story is as follows....

6941/ #135M
M-21, Lost on 30 July 1966, near Midway Island, (some sources say Pt. Mugu, CA). While launching a D-21 drone, the drone was trapped in the shock wave of the aircraft, forcing the drone back into the M-21, causing the aircraft to break-up at Mach 3. The Lockheed Test Pilot Bill Park and the LCO (Launch Control Officer) Ray Torick ejected safely, but upon landing in the water Ray Torrick\'s suit, which became torn in the ejection, caused the suit to fill with water drowning Torrick. Bill Park was rescued safely. This crash prompted the end of the M-21/ D-21 program.

Cant imagine what it felt like banging out at that speed...
:yuk:


EDIT

Unbelievably, found another, very similar....

952/ #2003
Lost on 25 January 1966 near Tucumcari, NM. While in a 30 deg. bank at Mach 3 and 80,000 ft, the right engine had an unstart. Which caused the aircraft to desintegrate. The Lockheed RSO Jim Zwayer was killed in the bailout, while Lockheed Test Pilot Bill Weaver survived even though he never ejected, the aircraft desintegrated around him.

[willbav8r]

I believe the record for stepping out at high altitude is held by a sled driver and his RSO.

80,000+ ft, where at Mach 3+ they were "fortunate" that the air density being so low prevented them from being smashed to pulp. A pressure suit also helped of course....

And as for the lowest; was it that thunderbird chap last year?

[Trumpet_trousers]

...check your PM's...

TT

[Sunfish]

Anyone know a gentleman by the name of Tony Svensen? He was an exchange officer from the RAF to the RAAF in about 1962 from memory. He used to sail with my dad and I when I was a nipper.

He was a lightening pilot but he was the first to eject from a Mirage at Laverton near Melbourne Australia. The engine flamed out and he dived to try and get it to restart , eventually giving up and ejecting., apparently supersonic at low altitude.

I remember visiting him in Hospital. His boots were apparently laced up wrong or were not locked in and he broke both legs and arms.

[Milt]

Sunfish

Tony Svennson was one of my TPs at Laverton when he ejected.

Here is a snippet I posted on an older thread called Ejection Seats/Military Aircrew a while ago. If you want the full story - can post later.

High Speed Ejection

Does Tony Svennson still hold the record for the highest indicated air speed ejection when he departed from a Mirage III supersonic at around 10,000 ft in a near vertical spiral dive close by Avalon, Australia..circa 1965.

Flight test instrumentation had him at 850 Kts CAS.

Leg retraints were inadequate and he only just survived massive leg/thigh trauma.

Recovered enough to fly again and do some tutoring at ETPS.

Where are you now Tony?

[BOAC]

"It tends to be a thing the armourers present after the event - a nicely mounted handle, couple of polished cartridges from the main gun and a plaque to commemorate the event. I tend to think it was done as much as in the success of the ejection as in relief that they had not slipped up."

I have one of those from the armoury at Gutersloh - they had a crate of beer from me!

"In most of the modern seats the handle stays firmly attached to the seat and try as you might there is now way you can or should hang on to a heavy seat on the way down!

It was thought that I had pulled the (bottom) handle so hard that I broke it away from the seat and it took the BOI a while to find it - 30 feet up a tree! They reckoned I could have ejected using the pull force alone without a gun or rocket:D

[Samuel]

I've witnessed five ejections, from three aircraft, in three countries, but the most memorable was a double ejection from a Javelin at Tengah in 1966. It may have been from 64 Sqn; or 60! Both had a habit of losing aircraft.

From a perspective of about the Tower, aircraft used to turn on to finals somewhere in line of sight with the Officers' Mess, though obviously well beyond that, and on this occasion the aircraft was on final approach when [apparently] the throttle locks engaged preventing any application of power!

When you watch aircraft landing a lot, you are conditioned to normality, so when you're watching and you see the canopy fly off followed in quick succession by two seats, you tend not to accept what you are seeing!

The two crew landed safe and well, and the aircraft was surprisingly intact!

I don't suppose anyone recalls the pilot?

[Kolibear]

I've just finished reading the biography of Sir James Martin and its a fascinating read. The impression I gained was of a gentleman whose word was his bond, but who didn't suffer fools gladly. He was dedicated to his work, refusing to take holidays on the grounds that he enjoyerd it so much that every day was a holiday. His attitude to his product was that if he could improve a seat at any time, he would, without consulting the customer. He worked on the principle that any improvement would save a life so had to be incorporated into the design and bu66er the Quality Control and accountants.

If ever anyone should be nominated for the person who saved the most lives in avaition, then he must be near the top of the list.

(I seem to recall that the book was published by PSL in about 1996ish, if anyone is interested)

[jimgriff]

Sir James Martin by Sarah Sharman
Printed 1996 by Patrick Stephens Ltd RRP £19.99
ISBN 1 85260 551 0
Lib of Congress Card No 96 075168
All royalties to RAF Benevolent Fund

Currently out of Print

[Ivor Fynn]

Tarnished - Assume you are ok CP (as well as can be expected)
some photos of me at your last workplace of my MB letdown!!! few years ago now.

Ivor fynn;)

[Tarnished]

Ivor,

See your PMs, but I still see no photos

Tarnished

[Eagle 270]

Try Doddy Hays (former MB 'test pilot, vertical; for the use of') The Man in The Hot Seat.

A book handed down from my father. An enthralling read from a slightly different perspective. Doddy was PedO, para trained (Wartime) and came across an opportunity to work for MB, post war. He, I believe was the first chap to live test a rocket seat (encumbered with ammo boots and cravat). Shortly after, Mr Hay 'retired' due to most of his vital organs being moved a bit North then a bit South. Either way a fascinating book from a bygone age. (The chapter where he recounts a test firing from the rear seat of a Valiant to prove V force rear seats were viability is pure Ealing Comedy with hindsight….and a potential hornets nest, politically!).

[jimgriff]

Ivor
Please check your PM's

I agree that Doddy Hay's book is an enthralling read. Bloody hell, that man had more nerve than I could ever muster.
It's one thing to eject when you have to, but to do it on many an occasion for "work" ......:eek: