Aer Lingus to Orlando: Feb 05?

[akerosid]

There have been rumours over the past few days about EI flying to Orlando; apparently, the MCO website has this, but EI hasn't said anything.

These rumours have been persistent and today, I've come across a statement to the effect that the new route is to start in Feb 05, at 3 flights per week (Tu, Th, Sa).

So, what is the story. The EI business plan suggests that as a result of the stalemate in the EU/US bilateral, there is no scope for expansion, but I've heard elsewhere that "second line" cities like Orlando, San Jose can be added on the same basis as BWI, i.e. on the basis that they're underserved. (Orlando? Underserved?) Perhaps this is the way around it.

I wonder how far, before the EU/US deal is finally sorted, can they go on adding "second line" cities before the US objects? Also, if US goes under, will this make PIT and PHL "underserved" cities which can be added on the same basis as BWI as well?

[EI Elite]

HMM THINK IT MAY BE A 'SCHEDULED' CHARTER, WW IS GOOD AT FINDING THE BACKDOORS!

[positive]

EI starting Dublin - Orlando with x3 weekly in December!

Outbound: Tue, Thur, Sat


Flights are operated by Aer Lingus on a charter basis. View Terms and Conditions


From DUBLIN To ORLANDO/MCO

Flight Leaving From Arriving EUR

EI2003 DUBLIN Tue, dec 2 12:00 ORLANDO/MCO Tue, Jan 11, 15:55 152.00

From ORLANDO/MCO To DUBLIN

Flight Leaving From Arriving EUR

EI2002 ORLANDO/MCO Thu, dec 9, 18:15 DUBLIN Fri, Jan 21, 08:15 152.00

[Silver Tongued Cavalier]

Yes it is a cheeky "scheduled" charter!!! The SNN stop lobby must be choking on their bacon this morning!

Just checked out the website, initial fares Dublin-Orlando for 1 adult return is €354/£240/$431.

Not a bad price at all!!!!

[DUBXH]

About time really..... It's a sad state of affairs when you have to go via EWR/JFK/ATL/LHR and so on..... Plus it's better than that dodgy L 10 11 doing SFB this summer...

His still wrecking the airline though :o)

[akerosid]

I've been waiting for someone to "wreck" the airline like this for some time - flying more people to more places, more cheaply. That's the way airlines should be.

Why hold back from this aim.

The only obstacles to Aer Lingus's continued growth are regulatory. Interestingly, Goldman Sachs report on EI's future casts some doubts (according to the Sunday Business Post) on EI's t/a operations. It has pointed out that if Aer Lingus were in private hands, t/a routes would have been dumped after 9/11. However, it's not clear whether Aer Lingus will be of interest to investors if it remains under the yoke of government regulation.

Time to release them . . .

[DUBXH]

akerosid

WW is "wrecking" EI.... If you dont agree with my comment feel free to browse here (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=142392) and here (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=139981) if you want some justification for my comment.... :o)

[runawayedge]

DUB.....from where I'm sitting WW took EI down the only road possible. Any other road was certain failure. He is continuing to cut his cloth to measure, and good look to him. I think your two justifications hold no water. On the subject of the thread itself? He has skirted the bilateral, and EINN but is this an attempt at low cost on long haul? I somehow question the yield, even on three a week. Can't see too many in front of the curtain. Only time will tell!

[Shamrogue]

Morning,

In this morning's Irish Indo, a brief statement appears. The statement advises EI have paid up their bond and become a tour operator. This is returning back to their roots in the 80's when they had Aer Lingus holidays.
They are now offering, 7 nights hotel accomm, flights, and car hire for around 450-475 a skull.
This is now also biting the hand etc. American Holidays, Tour American and the Irish Travel Trade in General would developed the Irish- Florida market.
With the drop from One World, pulling out of Galileo and the general move away from the travel trade, the only way to get to Florida will be by using EI. Now the question is asked...........is this abuse of a dominant position??? BMI can only carry so many between DUB-LHR as a feeder route. From memory AF don't feed into MCO nor do KLM>.............course that route will vanish soon too. So it's down to CO via EWR or EI and DL via ATL. The problem being now, with EI on the route, CO and DL may not offer all that many seats via the hubs because of the low yield which will now result on this route.
A year ago you could visit Florida by BA/EI via LGW flying TA with VS or BA. Also EI-Man-Vs-MCO along with EI/BA LHR and VS/BA onwards.
So, whilst we've gained an FR mark 2. We've lost competition. Or will BA revamp their LGW-DUB service??? or will we another US carrier enter the market?

Sincerely,

Shamrogue

[runawayedge]

This is no doubt further confirmation of the Irish government's position ref EI. The desire to make EI attractive for offloading will no doubt impact on tourism, particularly outside DUB. The inability to connect through LHR will have traffic consequences. On the distribution side I heard recently EI were up to 50% and growing their on-line business, they won't be too worried about the travel industry.

[MarkD]

I can't see how it's "abuse of a dominant position" since a US charter operator could easily make a deal with US and Irish travel agencies for the same routes.

[Shamrogue]

Mark,

It is not only the question of the Charter Market. The market in Ireland is relatively small. It attracts, 2 US carriers, and EI.
By EI entering the market. It may weaken carriers such as DL/CO on their trans atlantic routes........all dependent on their onward traffic to Florida. But it has the potential to weaken 2 thin routes to a point where the airlines make look at pulling out. Certainly in the case of DL who have consistantly benefitted from MCO traffic.
I'm not worrying about the Irish Travel Trade. They as all travel agents should do, will use the internet to help rather than hinder their passengers. It's not the pulling away from agents that concerns me.
Simply put, 2 years ago, you could enter Ireland through just about all of Europes major hubs on one ticket. Now, you have perhaps 2/3 hubs. 2 US and 1 or 2 European which EI will let you tie in with. I know the US Tour operators are already finding the going tough, inbound. So, what I beleive the effect will be is. EI will restrict entry to Ireland to only the direct routes it serves. And then your left with a few smaller operators to do the rest.

Overall, I beleive the way EI is going is wonderful from a cost perspective and not so wonderful from a tourism inbound and outbound.

Cheerio

Shamrogue

PS. I'm not a member of the travel trade either in Ireland or anywhere else.

[EIDW Spotter]

Lookin at there booking agent on the website, It is possible to book "premier" cllss tickets on this flight also. I would say that once this is running for a while that they will set it up as scheduled on the days they are not serving Baltimore, and open the route using the same exception as they did with the BWI flights.

[MarkD]

Does anyone in the know know how much traffic there is from Ireland to Florida via NYC/ATL?

Oh and Shamrogue, you forgot US Airways in addition to DL and CO. A quick expedia search shows them to be among the cheapest DUB-MCO. (via PHL)

[Shamrogue]

Hi Mark.

No I have US Airways in mind. However, they are somewhat jittery. Then again DL is now too!!! US are seasonal.

So I beleive this helps the arguement.

Is Ireland Inc a reasonably profitable route for US/CO/DL?

If it's not it makes them very susceptible to departing Ireland. Which would leave us with a very limited travel potential. I'm off to the US next week. BA all the way DUB-LGW-MCO and returning PHX-LHR-DUB. With the new model trips of this nature will be gone. And likewise for inbound pax. A fair portion travel into Ireland back home from an alternate airport again this becomes a problem.

But anyways, harping on about it in here does bugger all good. And certainly writing to Minister Brennan will do even less.

Cheerio

Shamrogue

[akerosid]

The key obstacle, as far as I'm aware, is that the EU has to be informed - and give consent - to negotiations and the conclusion of negotiations - with third countries, if it is involved in negotiations with that country. That means that since the EU is involved in negotiations (even if they are stalled and the EU is making a pig's ear of them), we're stymied.

The problem is the lack of communications. Brennan - who is, as Shamrogue points out - appallingly bad at communicating - should set out the position. He has said, only this week, that he will be looking at the current bilateral to see if it permits more flights to regional airports (ORK, SNN); if he is being blamed for the apparent "all engines stop" on t/a access, why doesn't he say what the position is. The problem is that very few people seem to know what the position is - or how to work a way around it. I only found out this by writing to the EU and this raises another question: there are lots of people who want the stopover to end and if SB is not going to communicate, can he blame those who decide to bypass him?

Furthermore, if it's not possible to advance negotiations with the US, why not get a deal with Canada in time for next Summer? At least that would permit some new business; the bilateral arrangements between Ireland and Canada - two countries which SHOULD have a roaring trade in trade and tourism - is totally out of date and an obstacle. GET IT SORTED, SEAMUS!

[MarkD]

Virtually everybody I meet at work claims to have visited Ireland recently - pity we can't seem to market ourselves for winter flights since every twobit field in the UK seems to have winter canadian flights. Stopover again I guess!