Breach of the Armed Forces Code of Social Conduct?

[JessTheDog]

The "private" life of CinC STC has been splashed all over the Mail on Sunday. I know of a few people whose equally-harmless extra-marital dalliances have caused them to tread the AOC's carpet under a certain Queen's Regulation. The irony makes me smile...

Wouldn't it be nice if this nonsense was finally put to bed, so to speak? Dipping your wick (on an extra-marital basis) within the confines of the service (and particularly within the chain of command) is one thing, but if there is no-one else in uniform involved, it should attract the lack of interest it deserves!

Or am I being cynical in assuming that a "do as I say not as I do" attitude may prevail?

[BEagle]

An MoD spokesman said: "This is a personal matter and not one we would like to comment on."

[JessTheDog]

It gets worse...I thought the silly season was over! Mind you, extra-marital liaisons seem to be in vogue....Blunkett for example! Surely, given Buff's close relationship with the truth, his denials must be accepted as copper-bottomed?

From the Sunday Mirror

HOON & THE MOD GIRL Sep 12 2004


EXCLUSIVE Sinister smear campaign by spy chiefs

By Euan Stretch, Chief Reporter


CONTROVERSIAL Defence Secretary Geoff Hoon has become the victim of a sinister smear campaign.

The married Minister has been falsely accused of having a secret affair with a female MoD worker in a plot hatched by disgruntled security service officers.

In a series of anonymous phone calls to journalists, they have claimed Mr Hoon was besotted with Sarah Child while British troops risked their lives in Iraq. He was alleged to have met Ms Child, 35, in Pristina, Kosovo, in 2002 and continued their affair behind the back of loyal wife Elaine.

The smear campaign emerged as trouble-plagued Mr Hoon unexpectedly survived another Cabinet reshuffle.

It is believed the smear was started by British security service officials - possibly from MI5 - who are desperate for Mr Hoon to be sacked. The Minister is openly despised by many military and security service bosses for his handling of events running up to and during the Iraq War and the inquiry into Government scientist Dr David Kelly's death.

Last night Ms Child, who no longer works for the MoD, angrily dismissed allegations of a two-year affair.

She told the Sunday Mirror: "I categorically deny that I am having an affair with Mr Hoon. It's total nonsense. I've never even met him.

"Yes, I did work in Pristina in 2002 and there were visits from senior officials, including Mr Hoon, that year. But I was never part of them and talk of an affair is just nonsense." The Sunday Mirror was first contacted by a security source in the run-up to this week's Cabinet reshuffle.

The source first accused Mr Hoon, 49, of having an affair with an ex-MoD worker. He then provided us with Sarah Child's name, date of birth and details of her current employer. The caller also claimed Mr Hoon regularly took calls from Ms Child in front of his wife and had to pretend they were "sensitive" in order to leave the room. According to the source, Mr Hoon's security personnel were also becoming "fed up" with having to help "cover up his affair".

But inquiries by the Sunday Mirror quickly established that the allegations were false. When contacted, Ms Child was dumbfounded by the claims. She added: "I'm shocked that this is being said about me. I have no idea why my name is being brought up in all this. At first, I thought it was a wind-up." Mr Hoon has courted controversy ever since his appointment as Defence Secretary.

In March last year, he was attacked for going on a skiiing trip to the French Alps with his family as thousands of British soldiers headed for Iraq.

He was accused of putting the lives of British servicemen at risk because of chronic equipment shortages and failures. His department was later accused of leaking the name of arms expert Dr Kelly to the Press before he was found dead. During the Hutton inquiry, he infuriated security service chiefs by blaming them for blunders surrounding Dr Kelly's death.

Last night an MoD spokesman said: "The Secretary of State categorically denies any such affair. There is no truth in any of the allegations. As to the source of such information, we would not offer any comment on that."

[ppf]

Alas some WMD is found............Women of marriage destruction! :D

Quite and apt title for the article and fairly amusing but I do think that these things should be kept between the individuals involved and not splashed around all over the place :*

ppf :ok:

[The Gorilla]

Seems a lack of integrity is a pre-requisite to become an Air Officer!!
:yuk:

[J.A.F.O.]

Scum will rise to the top of the pond.

[Jackonicko]

"THE DESERT RAT
Sep 12 2004

EXCLUSIVE Gulf War II chief Sir Brian, 55, dumps his wife for blonde pilot, aged 33 As his men risked their lives in Iraq he was busy falling in love

By Alan Rimmer, Rupert Hamer And Justin Penrose
_

THE RAF commander who became the public face of British Forces in Iraq during the last Gulf War has been having a secret affair with a blonde pilot 22 years his junior.

Air Chief Marshal Sir Brian Burridge, 55, began to fall for Ellen Roberts while his men and women risked their lives in Iraq.

Yesterday his wife of 33 years Christine, 55, was reported to be "heartbroken" and preparing for a divorce.

The Sunday Mirror can reveal that the RAF chief and Ellen, a British Airways captain, admitted their feelings for each other at least three months before the war, during heightened security.

Sir Brian - famous for his TV briefings with US General Tommy Franks - was playing a major part in the run-up to the conflict.

Military officials launched an investigation into the relationship and concluded their affair did not actually start until after he returned home from his base in Qatar in May last year.

But last night a source revealed: "The early stages of the romance had been going on since at least January last year.

"This would have been a crucial stage for our intelligence services and armed forces as they prepared to invade Iraq. And Sir Brian would have been very involved.

Sir Brian first met Ellen, 33, at the Henley Regatta when she was 18 - but got back in touch with her years later.

He often stays at her £500,000 cottage near Wallingford, Oxon, and they have been seen out drinking together. The source added: "They are absolutely head over heels in love and are thinking about moving in together. They have known each other for years but now they're smitten."

One of Ellen's neighbours added: "Ellie's lived here for three or four years and he's been around for around 18 months. He never talks and really keeps himself to himself.

"I knew his name was Brian and that he was in the military, but I didn't know how high up. I heard he was in Iraq. I knew he was also a Sir.

"I'd often see his Mini Cooper parked on the drive and he effectively lived there really, on and off.

"I also saw him picked up by a chauffeur-driven car, so the military obviously knew where he was."

She added: "I suppose if you're going to do these things with somebody so high up you're bound to get caught. Especially as everybody around here seems to know about it."

Ellen, 33, earns £80,000-a-year flying Airbus 320s on short-haul flights from Heathrow.

She is one of BA's most highly- regarded pilots. Ironically, Sir Brian was once known for his opposition to female pilots flying Britain's fighter jets.

A friend of Ellen's said: "She's a fun-loving woman - very popular with lots of friends."

Sir Brian, the father of two grown-up children, is now the £130,000-a-year head of RAF Strike Command in High Wycombe, Bucks.

He is living in an MoD-owned mansion near the base, while his wife Christine is at the 17th Century cottage they jointly own in a village near Swindon, Wilts. There was no sign of her there last night.

A friend of Christine's said: "She is angry and heartbroken. She feels totally betrayed by Sir Brian.

"They've been married for 33 years and it is incredibly difficult for her to be able to just pick up the pieces and carry on.

"She's currently staying with friends so she can just get away from it all."

Sir Brian, a former Nimrod pilot, was awarded a KCB for his role in Operation Telic - the British effort in Gulf War II.

He played a defining part in the "shock and awe" campaign, which marked the first day of conflict, by persuading General Franks to halve the amount of bombs dropped.

But he made a gaffe a month later when he implied British troops had a better war than their American allies.

Sir Brian returned from the Gulf on May 10 last year. At the time he said: "I think the British forces were magnificent. The whole campaign was a stunning success...I am very proud."

A month later he embarrassed Defence Secretary Geoff Hoon by complaining that British troops were not being kitted out with the right boots. And he told how the arrival of Challenger II tanks was "a close thing" and that British communications systems were "inadequate".

Later, after it was announced he would become a Knight Commander of the Order of the Bath (KCB), he added: "The men and women who served their country and continue to do so have shown professionalism, courage and steadfastness of the highest order."

Yesterday he was in St Omer, France, unveiling a memorial to honour British airmen who died during the First World War.

Arriving by helicopter and looking strained and under pressure, the Air Chief Marshal declined to comment on his affair.

A close aide to Sir Brian later said: "He felt it was totally inappropriate to comment on his private life on such an occasion."

Ellen Roberts also refused to comment on their affair.

An MoD spokesman said: "This is a personal matter and not one we would like to comment on."

He said extra-marital affairs involving a senior figures are investigated on an "individual basis".

However other military sources said news of the affair could block Sir Brian's natural career progression to the next job up - RAF Chief of Staff."



What a shame. He seemed to me to be a bloody good bloke, and very approachable. On one level it does seem awful that someone's career should be destroyed by an affair, but on the other..... perhaps it shows that he's:
1) A bit of a pratt for getting caught.
2) Perhaps not ideally suited for a job in which judgement, discretion, honour and integrity are important.
I can't help but hope that the worst that happens to him is severe embarrassment, however.

[Melchett01]

So for Buffoon its Last night an MoD spokesman said: "The Secretary of State categorically denies any such affair. There is no truth in any of the allegations. As to the source of such information, we would not offer any comment on that"

And for CinC STC its An MoD spokesman said: "This is a personal matter and not one we would like to comment on.

Does that mean if I were hypothetically to get caught having an affair with an SAC from the neighbouring unit, so we were not in the same chain of command an not a disciplinary problem, I could use either of those excuses when I get a hats-on-no-coffee chat with the Staish??

Why do I think not, and why does this not suprise me in the slightest. I'd love to rant and rave, but the sheer hypocaracy and complete and utter contempt shown to the rest of the troops by those at the top of the greasy pole has for once left me speachless. If they had any balls at all, they go and get the Mess Webley and resign.

[jayteeto]

Its ok for Blunkett to do it and stay in the cabinet but a genuinely good leader may have his career path 'blocked'. What a great government we have.............yes, yes, yes.....NO!

[Scud-U-Like]

Frankly, I have no interest in what Buff, Burridge or anyone else gets up to in the sack, provided it's not illegal. The Sunday Mirror, like all the tabloid dross, is a joke. If they told me today was Monday, I'd be checking the calendar.

If the Burridge story has any basis in truth, it's a shame for Mrs B, but, s**t happens.

[Jackonicko]

It is a shame for Lady Burridge, and it's a shame that anyone who now hears him say: "You have my word on that....." may now wonder if his word is worth more or less than the solemn vows he made in Church. And some of those he commands may be old fashioned enough to think exactly that. I guess that's why it still matters in this day and age, and why people in more senior positions perhaps have to pay greater heed to otherwise outdated (?) social mores?

[Scud-U-Like]

You may be right, Jacko. But if everyone who had ever broken their marriage vows was branded a compulsive liar, 70% of the adult population would probably never be believed again. Most people trot up the ailse with the best of intentions, but to err is human.

[adr]

Well said, Jackonicko. The only time you can confidently gauge how much a person's word means to them is when they have everything to gain by breaking it, or everything to lose by keeping it. If they still keep their word in such circumstances, then their word truly is their bond.

If someone has taken a solemn oath of marital fidelity, but that oath takes second place to the urgings of the old trouser snake, how can they expect to retain any credibility on matters that rely on their trustworthiness?

It's bad enough in business. But when you rely, to do your job effectively, on people who report to you keeping faith with their commitments even at the hazard of their lives, well, it's even more essential that you demonstrate that neither the fear of harm nor the prospect of advantage will sway you from your word.

I'd say that the further up the chain of a command a person rises, the less slack they should be cut. And I'd recognise a difference between a momentary lapse under pressure and a persistent adulterous relationship.

Don't want ever to have to choose between risking your life and breaking your commitments? Don't join up. Don't want ever to have to choose between "following your heart" :rolleyes: and keeping your vows? Don't get married.

adr

[Red Line Entry]

IIRC, the guidance that came out a few years ago said that if an adulterous relationship involved a married servicemen and a civilian then the Service would not seek to get involved.

To my mind this seems the right approach. Accoding to www.divorcemag.com (amazing what Google finds!), 53% of UK marriages end in divorce. Bearing in mind that not all adulteres get divorced this means that the greater part of married people break their wedding vows. Are we honestly saying that these people are by definition not fit to be officers?????

adr says that "I'd say that the further up the chain of a command a person rises, the less slack they should be cut. "
So a flt lt should be allowed the odd shag, a sqn ldr can cop the odd grope and a wg cdr can have a kiss every other month? Come on... Considering the amount of complaining on this web site about there being one rule for senior officers and one rule for the rest, I hardly think a "tiered" blame culture is appropriate.

To my mind, there is a great deal of hypocracy over this issue. What happens in someone's private life should be exacly that, private. Only if the relationship is taking place within the command chain should the RAF seek to intervene. (My own view is that relationships between officers and enlisted personnel should also be allowed, as it is in some other air forces)

Leave the excitement over gossip for the tabloids; as professionals we should be more concerned as to how someone does his job, not what he gets up to at home!

[Jackonicko]

I don't think that being an adulterer automatically makes one unfit to be an officer (though it does sit uncomfortably with the notion that one should also be a gentleman!), and I don't hear anyone saying that. People are asking whether or not it is compatible with being a very senior officer.

Double standards? Certainly. Just as I'd expect a senior officer's drinking habits and dress standards to be different to what we might all tolerate from a young JO. And while your 'sliding scale' of hanky panky allowances is amusing, many of us would probably agree with the premise "that the further up the chain of a command a person rises, the less slack they should be cut" in all sorts of areas. If a young Flying Officer is an amoral 'Poodle Faker' it will be tolerated, and probably can't do much damage. Were CAS or CDS found to be the same, then morale might suffer and the reputation and public image of the service or services would be diminished. I am not as old fashioned as ADR, nor do I have such a clear sense of what is morally right. I'm inclined to agree with your statement that "we should be more concerned as to how someone does his job, not what he gets up to at home!" But in the case of a high profile figurehead, a public face for the RAF, it probably does affect how he can do that job.

Getting yourself picked up in an official car from your mistress' house (a few hundred yards from Benson's main gate, close to a pub used by service personnel) may also indicate a rather poor sense of judgement, if not of decorum, and infers an unrealistic degree of risk perception.

And ADR raises an interesting point as to whether there's a difference between "a momentary lapse under pressure and a persistent adulterous relationship." Crudely put, a drunken shag on the spur of the moment is one thing, but making the deliberate decision to continue with an affair, without 'putting one's marital status in order', entails making a deliberate decision to dissemble and deceive those closest to you, and it therefore may be quite another thing. That said, unless you've been there, I suspect that none of us would have much clue as to how complicated, difficult, upsetting and unsettling it might be to be in the adulterers shoes.

I don't pretend to have any answers, and I certainly have an instinctive sympathy for such an impressive and admirable officer, and hypocritically I do regret that he has been found out, but I do think that there are legitimate questions to be asked.

If only we were talking about an anonymous officer, this could be an interesting theoretical debate. As it is, it feels like trampling all over an unfortunate and messy personal tragedy.

Be warned, journos will be all over this, digging for details of any example of Sir BB having given a 'hat on' to anyone found to have been guilty of any similar lapses in behaviour.

[airborne_artist]

My own view is that relationships between officers and enlisted personnel should also be allowed, as it is in some other air forces

And was (is still?) allowed in the RN - there was a protocol for taking an enlisted Wren to Wardroom (Officers' Mess) ladies' nights, even. (Jenny was given a 30 minute knife and fork course by the senior Wren officer).

Very sensible, and resulted in many happy matches, and very little trouble.

[JessTheDog]

I think it is fair to say that this issue should attract no attention whatsoever unless the chain of command shafts other personnel in such a position. I know of people who have been hauled over the coals over similar instances and I hope they are laughing into their beer now!

[ScriBLee Dee]

At least it was a woman.........

[The Gorilla]

Jacko



----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Getting yourself picked up in an official car from your mistress' house (a few hundred yards from Benson's main gate, close to a pub used by service personnel) may also indicate a rather poor sense of judgement, if not of decorum, and infers an unrealistic degree of risk perception.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I disagree.. it isn't a poor sense of judgement at all!!

This just shows how arrogant these people are, misuse of a service vehicle is a punishable offence. Just like the carpets,curtains and mess silver man, he thinks he is above the law! And the worst thing about all this? Is that he is!! Have we not been down this road before when a previous Air Force CDS (I think he was) did something similar??

These a*rs*s sit in judgement day after day, applying an outdated 1955 set of rules which they have no intention of ever following.

You need to be able to trust those who have your life in their hands and I have to say that a large percentage of the absolute shower in charge at the moment have no idea of what honour and integrity mean.


Scribly

On this occasion, with this senior officer it was a woman!!

[polyglory]

Gorilla,

Well said , I totally agree.

[Red Line Entry]

Out of curiosity, and under the "No names, No pack-drill" principle, is anyone aware of a recent (ie within the last 3 years) incident whereby a married serviceman was formally or informally reprimanded for having an affair with a civilian who had NO service connections?

I'm not, but then again, it's not something that would be shouted from the rooftops!

[SirPeterHardingsLovechild]

Is the Station Commander's daughter a civilian? :E

[DuckDodgers]

Don't think his £130,000 a year is going too go far in this divorce case somehow, plus the loss of his pension as well....Oh well, i thought he had done a rather good job as CinC STC, guess it will be Torpy's turn now then?

[Spotting Bad Guys]

No, he has just taken up post as CJO.

[Hueymeister]

Hey..just prooves that even he's human....he aint the first..and he won't be the last...what the heck? Least he's not been wasting his dosh getting 'Gimped' for the last 20 years!!!!