Doncaster/Finningley (Merged)

[DC10FAN]

I haven't seen many posts on here recently about DSA; any rumours about actual opening date and additional new services? I am aware of the new Thomsonfly services, based Britannia B757 and 2 x TCX w-flights?. What about other charters/locos?

[niknak]

I think opening day is set for the 13 or 14th March 2005.
Rumour, (and only rumour control) has it that they have been in intensive talks with Cathay about moving their freight operation from Manchester, and also have been talking to other large freight operators.
Don't know anything about scheduled services though.

[pwalhx]

Some time ago, I mentioned a work colleague had been told by the local development agency that Dragonair was opening some kind of operation at Finningley.

The only reply I saw was that KA were merely opening a receiving depot, I didnt bother to answer that at the time. However KA doesn't have a receiving depot anywhere else including at Manchester, so that was unlikely.

Maybe though they are trying to attract the Cargo operators ffrom Manchester to Finningley, if I was Manchester this would have been my fear more than pax flights.

So it could be CX or KA or maybe even both.

[garethjk22]

Robin Hood Airport will open on the 16th March 2005.

Currently, the TUI group comprising Britannia Airways and the low cost Thomsonfly.com will have a total of 5 based aircraft between them.

THe airport is, I beleive in discussions with a number of airlines and it's my guess that there will be more scheduled services announced later this year, the TUI announcement was very early, usually airlines announce around 2-3 months in advance, so end of the year, early next seems logical to me.

Dragonair have a receiving depot at Doncaster. Contrary to the earlier post, they have such facilities all over the county, otherwise you would end up with thousands of little ford transit vans descending on manchester airport and Stansted every day to feed the flights. Freight is collected at various locations throughout the UK and trunked into the aircraft departure airport. This is not uncommon, contrary to our friends earlier comment.

Early indications for sales from the airport are very positive and this will line the aiport up well for the future. It is not going to happen overnight, and my guess, for what it;s worth would be that 2006 will see a major step change from 2005, with 2005 being the year the airport opens, gets itself settled down and bedded in for growth.

DSA is an exciting opportunity for aviation in this country, and a rare opportunity at that, lets hope all the cynics out there welcome it and we can, for at least once on this site, be spared the incessent bashing that good news usually receives.

[pwalhx]

I worded my comments about receiving depots badly.

Being in the Cargo side myself I am well aware of the logistics of moving freight to the airport of departure from nationwide receiving points.

What I should have said is that Dragonair do not operate their own receiving shed's at Manchester or Stansted but use a handling agents, as do most airlines. They do not have their own transit shed.

If what my colleague was told and they were opening something themselves, this would be a departure from their current policy and an indication of future intentions maybe.

[wawkrk]

There has been a lot of talk about the so-called long runway at Finningley.However, I am not sure that 2791metres is long enough for unrestricted 747 cargo flights to Hong Kong for example. Does anyone know if what I am sying is correct?

[robbie d]

wawkrk - You are right. A fully loaded 747 could not depart on an ultra long haul route from that length of runway.

[pwalhx]

The 747F wouldn't necessarilly be fully loaded on departure. CX and KA stop in mainland Europe i.e. AMS, BRU and PAR so maybe 60 tonne of freight on departure from the UK.

[HOODED]

There's room to put in an extra 1000ft if required within the current airfield boundary.10,000ft would be enough as they operate from MAN with that length of runway.With all the other work going on at DSA at the moment I guess they think the runway is long enough for Peels requirements at the moment.

[garethjk22]

OK, a few points, Dragonair are indeed using a handling agent at DSA. It is the transit shed operator (which is standard practice) the agent is CHC - a new transit shed operator in the UK.

The runway at DSA is 2891 metres, not 2741 as previously states. This puts DSA on a par with EMA.

Brgds

[lez]

does anyone know why they are digging along side of the whole runway at DSA??

[HOODED]

New lighting or maybe improved drainage? They also have 2 trenches dug accross the runway one on the north end concrete and one halfway down. New approach lighting is going in at the north end too. Does anyone know if it will have ILS on both ends? Also how many stands will there be?

[OCEAN WUN ZERO]

I believe there will be about 6 stands at the terminal(734 size) and STACKS of remote space. One slight downer on the op is that the locals think that the airport will use 20 to land on and 02 to depart on.(subject to wind) A big operational restriction if the traffic offered is more than one at a time.:D

[lez]

why are they digging the runway up??,i know both thresholds need work doing to them but the rest is fine,it doesn't make any sense.if i remember rightly i think they was planning on makin the runway to 10,000ft ,anyone got any idea's coz you can't find any info anywhere on the net,peel don't seem to want to give imformation out for some reason.

[tickhill]

I watched a VC10 and a Meteor (G-LOSM I think) do a number of flypasts around lunchtime on September 15th. I know this was BoB day, but I struggled to find any other more specific connection. I think Meteors were based there at one time, but VC-10s? Was it a squadron thing (saying goodbye to Finningley one last time?). Who was there to see it?

It was interesting to see the two aircraft fly what looked like a typical down-wind leg prior to an overflight of the runway, as they passed right over my house. It'll be nice to see some traffic again.

Ian

[jumpseater]

Flypast
According to a thread on the Mil forum, a flypast at a funeral for one of the crewmembers of the recent Canberra accident

[lez]

yeah i think one of the airman lived in doncaster and served at RAF Finningley

everyone iswelcome to join http://groups.yahoo.com/group/donnyairport/

[tickhill]

Oh dear - yes that does all fit together now.

I was very sorry to hear about the accident and had noted that Paul was a local.

RIP

[garethjk22]

Hi all,
To answer some of the points above.

The trench is for new AGL lighting, as the old RAF was not to commercial standard, and needed replacing anyway.
Approach lighting is been added at both ends of the runway, and the runway will be painted with commercial runway markings, thresholds, TDZ's etc etc. Threshold at 02 end will be displaced due to rising ground to the west of the field (as I understand?!)

Trenches accross the runway are to provide services around the airfield such as water, electicity, and drainage.

ILS will operate on runway 20 only initially, but this will change as the operational needs of the airport become more apparant following the airport opening, all future proofs are included for this expansion(!) Runway 20 is preferred landing runway (and will be used even with a slight tailwind), with 02 the preferred departure runway. This is noise related.

The airport will have 8 terminal contact stands 4 x 767 and 4 x 737 (4 x code D, 4 x code C). 747's can park accross 2 stands.

At least 3 stands will be served by gate bridges (not air bridges) but for those who have visited liverpool, the gate bridges which drop you at the head of stand will be used. Again, if an airbridge requirment is realised, they can be added as necessary.

Remote parking is in abundance, and it is likely any frieghter aircraft will park remote to the terminal, as the transit shed will be in what was originally hangar 1.

Information is scarce at the moment in fairness, however a new website will be launched by the end of the year in preparation for the airport opening in March 05.

Any more for any more? Hope the above is of some use, and the above is correct, I can assure you I know!

Brgds

GJK22

[lez]

thank you gareth for the info ;) when you say "Threshold at 02 end will be displaced due to rising ground to the west of the field (as I understand?!)
displaced in which way,not using it??

[jumpseater]

The runway use should come out at around 70% Rwy20 and 30% 02. Can't see how 02 would be used primarily for departures whilst 20 would be used for landing. In the busier periods departing traffic would be launching directly into opposing landing traffic!. Also this tail wind departure preference (02) would require longer take off run, simplistically more power required, with corresponding lower altitudes on climb, and hence more noise, which doesnt make a lot of sense.

[garethjk22]

It makes perfect sense. To the north of the field there are a dozen houses if that for around 6-7 miles, allowing any aircraft to climb suffieciently to reduce the noise impact. To the south is the town of Bawtry ... hence the preference for 02 departures. It is quite common for an airport to use a runway even with a small tailwind, even LCY use approached over the city with a tailwind below around 5 knots!

Of course, if it is busy both go the same way ... i would have thought was to to be taken as read ....

The threshold displacement. This means, that rather than the threshold (the piano keys if you like) being at the end of the runway as you would expect, they will be moved further along the runway ... which is when you get the arrows at the start, then the piano keys etc. This does not effect take off as you start the take off roll at the start of the concrete, but if means that the landing zone is moved down the runway, so that as the aircraft come over the high ground they are higher and hence the ground is no longer considered to be an obstacle ... hope this makes sense.

Any more for any more?

[jumpseater]

G22 I'm quite familiar with the area, the outlaws are from there! Any way with the runway useage going to be 70/30 westerly/easterly to emphasise to the community so early on there will be a bias towards easterly departures is a poor move. They will take that as read, and will not understand the operational implications which will in due course alter that. Any likely change to undo this bias would be vehemently contested, make sure that bias isnt in any planning agreement or future development will come at a heavy price!. You are quite right regarding take off with tail wind component, however that is usually only a few knots, again something the public will not understand, and a few knots/wet runway may make all the difference for a departure even with the length of runway available.

A far better option will be an alter course off 20 at about 500ft by 20 degrees or so to take aircraft between Bawtry and Tickhill. It wont be perfect but operationally in the long term it will be preferable. By having this bias it also means south bound operators are potentially adding a significant track mileage to the departure route. That will be an interesting pitch to lo-cost airlines for example!

Any more for any more? Hope the above is of some use, and the above is correct, I can assure you I know! :ok:

[lez]

cheers for clearing the threshold displacement thing up :) but does it mean the runway will in fact be shortened? and will dsa have its own radar head?

[jumpseater]

The runway is in effect shorter for landings than takeoffs. landing you can not use the part before the piano keys, however for take off you can frequently start the take off roll on the section, (before the piano keys), not used for landing on. It does depend on the individual runway and its particular restrictions. Dunno about the radar feed though.

[garethjk22]

Ha ha, it is a preferred operational requirmenet, but nothing is stipulated that that is how it will be (as far as I am aware). Ultimately it will be wind dependant but the published op procedures state what I said above.

Minor point but the runway is north / south not east / west (sorry, just like to be precise from time to time). The departure routes do turn either east west depending to avoid bawtry anyway ... this has already been thought of!

I'm not operationally minded, and it's not my forte, but i'm into all that ... and I do have an idead of the thought processes involved and seen all the bits and pieces!

Going back to the displacement issue, the runway is not shorter, and it is quite common for runways to have a displaced threshold, runway 09 at LPL is displaced by around 150' as is 24R and 24L at MAN.

GJK

[jumpseater]

'Minor point but the runway is north / south not east / west (sorry, just like to be precise from time to time)'. Ha ha, well, with respect 02/20 is not north-south to be precise either!, is it?. Any way would be interested to know where the 'published' procedures are, perhaps as they are 'published' you would be kind enough to advise where?, I'd be interested to see them.

From your good self, 'the runway is not shorter'. Also from yourself, 'This does not effect take off as you start the take off roll at the start of the concrete, but if means that the landing zone is moved down the runway'. (Note you may not land on the runway in front of the piano keys, in normal circumstances). Therefore with a displaced landing threshold as you describe above, the runway is shorter for landing than it is for take off, correct?. Example for lez and to illustrate the above, taking off and landing in the same direction, same piece of tarmac:
total runway length 2000m
displaced landing threshold by 500m
landing runway available 1500m
take off runway available 2000m
do you concur gareth?

[garethjk22]

You get out of bed the wrong side?
No the runway is not north / south, but it is more north south than east west, but if you want to be funny about it, it's north north east / south south west. O, and for the sake of clarity, I was being flippant in my comment regarding being precise ... hence the from time to time comment (which by nature is not precise .... ) .........

I had taken the earlier comment of the runway being shorter to read that the section prior to the displacement was not to be used, which is not the case, but the LDA is of course less than the ASDA. Otherwise, why displace the threshold?

This is fun isn't it, not argued with any one on here before .... o joy, a little light in an otherwise boring day (although ABBA is on later ..... )

[jumpseater]

No I didn't, perhaps both you and I should use a few ;) :{ :uhoh: :E :ok: 's in our postings to assist!. I was hoping to clarify to lez in laymans (no ofence intended lez), terms what the implications of runway length/displacement might mean, in answer to his 'does it mean the runway will in fact be shortened?' question.

I would genuinely be interested in knowing where the published procedures you mention are, and of course, far more importantly, the blonde or the brunette one?:E

[garethjk22]

The airfield is not licensed and will not be until next year, so until then the procedures remain un published, but they are published in the sense that that is what is going into the airport manual!

Always happy to use pictures (I can't read you see) not quite mastered the art of those yet though!

Sorry, keep an eye on the UK AIP and they will appear then at the appropriate time!

GJK22

[Nice Jam]

For an airport in class G airspace, like DSA will be, there can be no 'published procedures' for departures surely? All the low level military activity (lots of it) and civvies from the nearby GA fields (Gamston, Netherthorpe, Sandtoft, Sherburn etc.) skirting the edge of the ATZ will require every departure to be considered seperately.

As I understand it, DSA will not have a radar head on the airfield. I believe they are using Waddingtons, which is 20 miles away. Whether this is a recipe for future joy and happiness remains to be seen.

[lez]

why use waddington??? they should have there own radar head!!:rolleyes:

[garethjk22]

Why should they have their own radar head?

Lots of airports use feeds from existing installations. Why throw money around for no reason? I seem to remember EMA not having their own until recently, in fact they may not have their own now?? Radar will be staffed via LPL, with a feed from the radar ... in exactly the same way as Swanick work before you start!

It is important to note that Aviation is a business, and business in here to make money, unless of course you are state supported!

GJK22

[almost professional]

NEMA has its own primary head-secondary is piped from claxby, I would have thought that using the primary from 20 miles away, with all the attendant loses in cover is going to be very fraught-especially in uncontrolled airspace in area of intense mil activity-something that SRG will be reluctant to approve I should think

[MAN777]

Runway lenght and alignment issues aside, isnt there the problem of taxiway and runway loading. Are Robin hoods hard bits strong enough for a fully loaded cargo 747 ??

[HOODED]

Fully laden Vulcans operated there no problem so I doubt PCN will be an issue. I've also seen a C5A Galaxy there mind you they spread the weight on many wheels so they can operate from unprepared strips. I believe ther was however, a problem with mining subsidence. A freind tells me they were having problems with opening the hangar doors due to this when the RAF were there.:(

[Nice Jam]

Why should they have their own radar head?

Because for an airport in busy uncontrolled airspace, like DSA, it is quite* helpful to be able to see the unknown microlite that is crossing your final approach 3 miles out at 1000', quite legitimately not talking to you, when you have a 767 or suchlike plodding down your ILS. Or the Tornado closing on it from behind doing 400kt at low level, for that matter.

(*this is sarcasm)

in exactly the same way as Swanick work before you start!

Not quite. Swanwick rarely work traffic down to ground level, or in uncontrolled airspace. They tend to work within full radar cover.

Anyone know where the DSA secondary feed is from, out of interest? The Scampton head?

[jumpseater]

Hmm.... if they have to co-ordinate each departure that'll make a runway bias promise difficult to keep, with the potential of unnecessary delays too. Just a thought but the topography around there might assist with a remote head for primary at Waddo, its all relatively level, so terrain masking may be limited, but I'm thinking along the same lines as NJ.

[niknak]

This has been said before, so sorry if I step on anyones toes.

Althought the primary radar signal is being derived from Waddington, it is utilising a new gismo, (devleoped by Flight refuelling I think), that is CAA approved, and allows primary and SSR radar coverage down to 150ft.

This will give nearly as good as coverage as you would get from having your own radar head on the airfield for a lot less expense.

It's just a question of deciding if the blip not equipped with SSR crossing the centreline 2miles and 1 ft, , from the airport may, or may not, be a real aeroplane - a judgement call that we all have to do on a day to day basis.

[MichaelJP59]

Threshold at 02 end will be displaced due to rising ground to the west of the field (as I understand?!)

Where's this high ground of which you speak? I thought it was as flat as a pancake around that area?

Or is it perhaps to keep the aircraft higher over Bawtry on the approach?

- Michael

[garethjk22]

Suggest you take a drive. The land is very flat as your rightly point out, however it is not totally flat, and does undulate slightly. The road which runs to the south of the runway descends from the A638 to A614. Immediately to the west of the threshold is rapidly rising ground which necessitates a threshold displacement.

Noting to do with keeping the aircraft an extra 100-200ft above the residents of bawtry ....

[lez]

why didn't the RAF need the runway displacement,i remember them using rw 02 alot

[coughing corner]

Just trawling after reading the other Finningly thread, just wondering from all the replys why this displaced threshold is now needed, if the vulcans didnt, anyone know?

[lez]

my thoughts excactly,the RAF didn't need it and some big aircraft have in the past used rw02,
but i have heard they are extending both ends of the runway

[Roidelstein]

What date to Thomsonfly start ops from Finningley? Do they expect the airport to be ready on time?

[lez]

they are in front with work at finningley,i think its march time they begin flights

[terrywilcox]

nice to see you on here gareth. met you sunday morning. have you been on finairweb. it is back on line now and busy. there is a great thirst for info

first flight 16th.march lez

[lez]

hehe i wasn't far off terry :P

[garethjk22]

O no, I've been spotted! :)

The reason for the runway displacment as I have said is that civil and military operating stardard are different, and civil is more stringent on these things.

Beleive me or not, the runway threshold will be displaced at the southern end of the strip.

The runway is also not been extended as such, merely a starter strip that was to be decommissioned is now to be resurfaced to allow it form part of the strip.

[terrywilcox]

Just for info. There is certainly no mining subsidence under the airport. A pillar was left in. I worked on the coal face at Armthorpe Colliery (markham main) and got as close as anyone to the airport,albeit 1/2 mile down. The other colliery working near the airport was Rossington,and the same statutory requirement existed for them (leave a pillar).

Don\'t worry about it Gareth. I will say no more lol

[phil_2405]

When are Thomsonfly flights going on sale? Havent they already announced the routes, or was that just rumours over what routes they will operate?

[garethjk22]

Flights will go on sale in December,

At the press announcement in April, they issued a list of routes that were under consideration, however these are subject to slots and then being able to schedule everything into the available capacity.

Following the IATA slot conference in November , they will know more and hence release the final schedule and the seats for sale in December.

Rgds

GJK

[flybe.com]

Hi Terry, this is the first time I've seen you on here, well done on all your efforts regarding the FLY campaign. I hope, like me, you're not going anywhere near DFS or any other Kirkham-linked businesses!

[terrywilcox]

Thanx fly.be. You gotta be joking about DFS. Plenty of other shops for Doncaster folk.

Just out of interest to all you aviation buffs,Ld.Kirkham,owner of DFS,tried to stop the development at Finningley. I would recommend Sofa king or anyone else for that matter. He knows my name and can sue if he wants.

[holidaymax]

Okay, so far announced we have

Thomson
Thomsonfly
Thomas Cook Airlines
Pegasus
Balkan
Excel Airways
Air Malta

Rumoured are

Easyjet
Ryanair
American
Continental

Can anyone add anything firm to the list?.

[jabird]

Terry,

Glad to hear about your efforts re: Finningley, and well done for a successful campaign.

I like your quote: "I am in favour of environmentally sustainable development and resent the fact that pressure groups pretend they have a monopoly of what is sustainable, or right."

I think that is very true! We must do all we can to expose nimbys for what they are, and not to pretend that they have any interest in the wider enviromental debate - I don't recall DFS being innovators in this field (compared for example to Ikea).

Having devoted a great deal of effort challenging the nimby attitudes here in Coventry, I too have had enough of the simplistic "planes bad, staying at home good" arguments these people like to espouse (however much they themselves all too often are very regular fliers - where does Kirkham go on his holidays?).

Looking forward to hearing of a successful start up at Finningley next year - looks like a nice airport from what I've seen so far.

JA

[terrywilcox]

Hi jabird,just out of interest,Kirkham has his own plane and helicopter. He has a place just 1/2 mile from me "Cantley Hall",where he entertains royalty from time to time. We know when he is entertaining,as he has massive firework displays (not very environmentally friendly). This occurs without warning,and despite the fact that there are several riding stables very close by.

Can't understand why folk use his business,as he funded objection by Fiends of the Earth (no spelling error there). This cost us local taxpayers close to one million pounds.




There is more,but another time eh.

Hello holidaymax, you can definitely add Portland Holidays to the list.

[jabird]

Terry,

Thanks to the likes of CAECA, we're going to have the same problem here - although aren't enquiries paid for by national government?

Perhaps the enquiry will be more welcome here, as Warwick District rejected the terminal application - at the end of the day, it does mean having the application dealt with by a professional planning inspector, rather than a bunch of amateurs on a planning committee.

I don't have a problem with genuine enviromental concerns - there is plenty of room for a legitimate debate on flying and the environment, but this should be lead by people with a broad understanding of the whole subject, not by the selfish nimby lobby.

From what you suggest, Kirkham sounds like one of the worst hypocrites out there. He is perhaps joined by:

Carol Barbone - of Stop Stansted Expansion, who commutes fortnightly to France.
Jamie Oliver - who buys a house near Stansted, and then complains about the 2nd runway plans (and how do all those fresh ingredients you advertise for Sainsbury's get to the shelves, Jamie?).
Archie Muir - spokesperson for CAECA, (also a regular flier from "proper" airports like Heathrow), who buys a house built within the last 2 years on greenbelt land, and then complains about Coventry's expansion plans.

Are there any greater worthies of the title of "biggest nimby hypocite" - perhaps every airport has one?

[HOODED]

How about the population of Scotland lane at LBA. The estate was built in the 1960s when LBA was operating EIN BAC1-11s and 732s from it's then 5400ft runway and then complained in the 1980s when the runway extension was applied for. LACAN was set up on the estate despite it being built well after the Airport. Perhaps they didn't notice the approach lighting stansions in their back gardens! :ok:

[terrywilcox]

Certainly had plenty to do with Carol Barbone on the Stansted forum. I went on there about 2 years ago. People like her have some kind of closed mind. Anyway they binned the forum about 2 weeks ago. There were some people on there with a genuine grouse,and I could talk with them,but Carol was one of a bunch who were totally unreasonable,and were unable to compete with what I thought was a rational argument. The trouble is some of the locals who may have genuine concerns,get taken over by Fiends of the Earth and their ilk,who feed them propaganda.

The National Airport Watch,which is fighting all aviation expansion,was formed out of the Finningley campaign,with some very unholy alliances. I know many of them. We also have some people from the CPRE(campaign for the protection of rural England).

There is a lot more,but another time.

Just for information,I am NOT an aviation buff,and am NOT a campaigner for expansion everywhere. Each situation is different. As far as Finningley is concerned my only motivation was jobs for following generations,and regeneration of our area,badly hit by loss of coal mines,and much more.

[flybe.com]

I heard yesterday, and I'm not sure how true this is, that Thomsonfly will not now be flying to Portugal, despite earlier claims by the PR machine that such flights were already fully booked for the first few months. Can anyone clarify this?

Secondly, despite the fact that I've admired Peel's dogged determination to stick with the project in spite of Kirkham's/McDonald's rentacrowd, Fat Boy Prescott, Fiends of The Earth etc. I still don't like the name they've given it.

[terrywilcox]

In reply to a previous comment,re the Finningley PI. It was not a govt inquiry,but came under local legislation. The same strength and format,but paid for out of local taxes. It cost our local authority in the region of £1.000.000,to be paid out of council tax.

[DC10FAN]

Holidaymax,

You mention the following airlines have been announced. Do you know where I can find the flight times and a/c types?
(excl Thomson/fly)

Thomson
Thomsonfly
Thomas Cook Airlines
Pegasus
Balkan
Excel Airways
Air Malta

Cheers

[holidaymax]

flybe.com, flights to Portugal were never said to be sold out. They were cut soon after hoilidays went on sale so that other destinations could be added. The best selling are the Spanish routes.

As far as timings and aircraft types, they are in the brochures for the respective operators.

[coasting]

I wonder how many of the original 18 or so "suggested" destinations by Thomsonfly, will actually happen, now they have opted for a base in Bournemouth as well. The five based TOM 737s look like they have shrunk to 2 because of this, and the based BAL 757 appears now to be a B737-800. Were their original plans a little too ambitious maybe, for the first year?
I believe Hapag-LLoyd Express are to announce flights into DSA, as they have done at Coventry. The airline being part of the TUI group will sell the flights as dual TOM/HLX flights on their respective websites.
Anyone heard who will be the handling agents at DSA when it opens? I heard that it was going to be Servisair, but I stress that was only heard as a rumour going round the industry.

[terrywilcox]

coaster,Servicair is a fact. I am checking on the rest.

[garethjk22]

The Charter programme will be operated by a 737-800. This is for operational reasons and not an indication of sales.

The Thomsonfly product is yet to be announced, but will be a fleet of 3-4 737 aircraft. Varient yet to be decided. Destinations, as has been said all along will be announced in December, following the IATA slot conference in November. The list of destinations for THOMSONFLY (not be confused with Thomson Holidays) issued at the press confernece in April was a 'target list' and it was always made clear this was not final.

With regards to the other operators, many charter airlines will be using the airport, and more scheduled carriers will be announced in the comning months.

Finally, the ground handling agent is Servisair/Globeground and the fuellers are Conaco.

Security and cleaning will decided over the next 4-6 weeks.

[lez]

hi gareth

hows the building work going on airport ie:runway,other building's????

[BombardierCR7]

This is for operational reasons and not an indication of sales

Rather vague, what specifically from an operational perspective? Can you clarify that. From an industry perspective it looks like a lack of "bums on seats"

[jumpseater]

From an operational perspective it looks like a 'bums on seats' issue. Hardly surprising with it being new airport/route, operationally you don't put a big expensive asset on it to start.

[flybe.com]

holidaymax - thanks for the Portugal answer.

Moving on... I wonder which freight operators might be interested. Wasn't it the case that the DHL hub was originally planned for Finningley? but changed to EMA because of the length of time it took to be given the go-ahead?

Terry - check your PMs.

[bundybear]

Hi all,
I'm sure one of you DCS experts will know the answer to this. Drove down to DCS on the weekend from the North. Came down the A1, then onto M18, only to find that although the field was virtually alongside the motorway, there was no exit for it. In fact then had to drive through Doncaster to get there.

Are my navigation skills totally lacking, is there a more direct route? Are there plans to construct a southerly off ramp at or around junction 3 of the M18
Would make a big difference in travel time for those from up my way working or travelling from DCS.

Aside from that, all looked very impressive.

[Localiser Green]

I understand one of the options is to construct a Junction 3A (between 3 and 4) on the M18, which would be right next to the airport where the A614 passes over.

As with all these things though, could be years off.

[almost professional]

Flybe-I do not think so, DHL have been operating from EMA almost from the word go, and the Hub was planned for us -subject to planning etc.
As for others, well all the integrators are tied up and why would any major freight outfit just up sticks and move because Finningley opens?

[garethjk22]

OK. It no particular order. The code is DSA not DCS.

The 737-800 is an INCREASE in what was originally contracted with the carrier. DSA is, and has been almost since launch one of the top 3 best selling airports for TUI for summer 2005. The reason it is not a 757 is a lack of 757 aircraft within the BY fleet and some other crewing issues .... hence operational reasons.

Now, time for a moan. Why are you 'professionals' always so bloody cynical about everything? The airport is proving to be popular with holidays makers, it it not impacting on other airports, it will generate an additional 1,000 next year in the Doncaster region. Moan over.

Access. New motorway link will be from the existing Junction 3, not a new junction, and will link the motorway with the A638 at Parrots Corner. A new junction from the A638 into the back of the new terminal will then be added. Completion in 2008/9.

Cargo, the airport is making sound progress with cargo carriers, and expects flowm cargo on both dedicated frieghters and belly cargo from opening.

FAO. yes the route was dropped for a variety of reasons, slot availability etc etc etc, but replaced with BJV.

The build programme is on schedule, in fact parts are ahead!

Now for the really exciting bit. The airfield will be open to private flights from 3rd Jan 2005. The airfield will at that stage be unlicensed and without RFFS. The airfield will have ATC cover however.

GJK22

[terrywilcox]

With all due respect,Gareth,the route of the link road is not yet decided,unfortunately. What is certain is that it will come from the existing junc.3.

Attention is being paid to a route south of Rossington,avoiding Parrots Corner (Rossington Bridge),with links at Rossington village,and Bawtry Road. This could then be taken either into High Common Lane or Hurst Lane,directly to the terminal.

Why access to the airport is not directly off High Common Lane,I do not understand,but.......

[flybe.com]

Bundybear - Unfortunately, until the new link is built from M18 jnc 3, it is a bit of a long way around. From the A1 southbound, you can either come off at jncs 38, 37 or 36 (they're all about the same timewise) and go through Doncaster, or come off at jnc 34 (Blythe) and effectively double-back on yourself via Bawtry.

[HOODED]

It will still be quicker to get to DSA than MAN from the south Leeds area even before the new road is put in, which it will be mark my words.

[Caslance]

But even quicker still to get to LBA, surely? :confused:

[HOODED]

Granted, but LBA does not have transatlantic routes whilst DSA at least has a runway capable of such flights. Also try and get a package to Greece ex LBA, MAN no problem, just watch DSA with TUI and Thomsonfly.

[Caslance]

Granted, but LBA does not have transatlantic routes whilst DSA at least has a runway capable of such flights. Passengers fly on aeroplanes, not on runways.

So far as I am aware, no operator has yet announced that they plan to operate transatlantic routes from Finningley, have they?

Some of you chaps do seem to be taking a fair bit for granted, if you don't mind me saying so.

[niknak]

No doubt that the first couple of years will be hard work for Robin Hood Donny Int, however, they are in a prime position to provide services as an expanding airport, whereas the likes of Leeds, Bumbleside and EMA are desperate to hang on to what they've got.
Leeds probably don't have a great deal to be concerned about, but EMA stand to lose a lot of freight traffic in the long term, and the current IT market that HUY serve so well could dissapear by the time next summers IT flights have been sorted out.

I dont have any interests in the area, but I am confident that Robin Hood will be successful not only to the detriment of their competitor airports, but will be innovative in a way that many regional airports have failed to be in the last 10 years.

[almost professional]

Niknak
and why is it that EMA will lose out pray tell-an established operator with proven experience, established facilities, and a runway long enough for all but 1% of ops against someone who might have cheapness going for it!
'prime position as an expanding airport'-how exactly does this give them an advantage?
how exactly is the money plowed in going to be repaid?
some of the posts about Finningley do display an amount of hope over common sense

[wawkrk]

Just out of interest, what is the maximum take off distance from EMA compared to RH?

[aeulad]

At present, there is a reduction scheduled for the HUY summer 2005 IT programme compared to this year, however, the only destination to go is Corfu. There is however a significant reduction in Palma flights, as outlined:

PALMA THU BY 737
PALMA SAT LTE 321
PALMA SAT JKK M83
PALMA SAT IWD 320
PALMA SUN BY 738
Down from 7 to 5 weekly departures, with Airtours reducing from 3 to 1 weekly flight. Thomson reducing capacity from 757 to 737 'W's from DSA.

MAHON FRI MYT 320
Down from 2 weekly departures this summer. Thomson having dropped their flight.

IBIZA FRI AEA 738
IBIZA SAT BY 738

TENERIFE TUE AEA 738
TENERIFE FRI AEA 738

LAS PALMAS SAT FUA 738

ARRECIFE THU AEA 738

FUERTEVENTURA WED IWD 320
New destination with First Choice.

ALICANTE SAT MYT 320
Down from 2 weekly departures this summer. Thomson having dropped their flight.

MALAGA SUN FUA 738

FARO THU FCA 752

HERAKLION TUE VIK M83

CORFU - no longer available, Thomson having dropped their successful flight:(

DALAMAN MON PGT 738
DALAMAN MON PGT 738
DALAMAN FRI PGT 738

BODRUM MON OHY M88

LARNACA WED HCY 738

BOURGAS TUE BGH TU5
BOURGAS SUN BGH 320

JERSEY SAT VG F50
JERSEY SAT VG F50

So the number of weekly flights has decreased from 30 to 26 weekly. The decrease is not that big and all in all, the same NUMBER of destinations will be available, however, this may just be the start of the decline, I sincerely hope not :{

Regards

Mike

[almost professional]

2893m, with 150m applied for, enough for fully loaded B747 on all but the hottest, stillest day (or so I'm told)

[terrywilcox]

Just as a matter of information,for those not familiar with the Doncaster area,viz aviation buffs from afar. Just 8 miles or so from the airport is the historic Mayflower area,home of William Bradford (one time governor of the American colony),and other Pilgrim Fathers. To the east of the airport,some 10 miles is the birthplace of John Wesley,founder of Methodism,very big in the US. His home still exists. I think when Americans catch on to this,we have an enormous potential for transatlantic tourism.

There are obviously other tourist attractions within easy reach of Doncaster,with excellent access. I think we are on a particular winner,as pax must be two way traffic to be really successful.

[garethjk22]

Runway at DSA.

Physical dimensions, 2,891 x 61 m
TODA: 3,289 m

the route for the M18 is off J3. Either north or south of Rossington (decision due within a week or so) it will still come from J3. The cost of buildinga new junction is horrendous, and not necessary as J3 is perfect for either route.

2005 will be a year of 'bedding' in for the airport, as to expected. 2006 is when the growth will start ... just you see!

[terrywilcox]

You have a pm flybe

[Monitorverticalspeed]

Initially thomson fly are going to have 3 733\'s and a 738 (to cope with the turkey's, greece and the canaries etc) at finningley for those of you that are interested.

[BombardierCR7]

There are currently issues with the worker council for TUI Nordic, where the 2x 738 are to be sourced from to add to the TUI UK fleet, (one for Doncaster and the other for Durham). If the issues are solved, there will be one 738 at Doncaster for the majority of the IT program of TUI UK.

No decision has been made as to the number of aicraft for the "scheduled" program of TUI UK out of Doncaster. It is expected to be either 3x 735's, or 2x 733's but the decision will not be made for at least 2 weeks.

[garethjk22]

Actually it is 4 x 735 or 3 x 733 .. the issue is more complex than your sweeping statement!

[Going loco]

Don't see any difference between Bombardier's statement and yours - what's your problem? He said no decision had been taken and you've just confirmed that.

Seems to me we can't have any sort of meaningful discussion on DSA developments (of which I am fully in favour of by the way) without you shouting down anyone who dares to suggest it won't be an unreserved success.

loco

[garethjk22]

You're entitled to your opinion, and that is fine, however, I wont be too upset by someone who can't spot the difference between 3 and 4 aircraft ....

To spell it simply for you, bombardier suggested 3 737-500's, whereas the TRUTH (not my opinion as you seem to suggest) is that it is 4 737-500's ... by my reckoning, a whole spanking aircraft difference.

Then, he suggested 2 737-300, whereas it is 3 737-300 - need I go on.

I do not shout people down, I don't understand the underlying negativie feeling towards DSA from certain individuals I will be honest, but like I say, all are entitled to their own opinion, I welcome a good debate .... O so long as you realise I am always right in the end ;) :ok:

[BombardierCR7]

I welcome a good debate .... O so long as you realise I am always right in the end
....that's an interesting concept.

I have had it confirmed again from 2 independent sources that my statement is correct "as it stands at the moment". A lot may happen in the next few weeks, we need to wait and see. You may claim you have the truth, it just happens to be different from what I have heard. Fine, it's called an opinion, I have no conceptual problem with opinions. That doesn't make me anti or negative about Doncaster, I haven't seen anyone on this thread who is. As Going Loco rightly points out there seems to be no debate about this airport as long as someone doesn't agree with your point of view. Some of us merely want to understand the "real potential" of DSA, not the Peel marketing perception. It's success/failure has an impact on certain peoples livelihoods, as I am sure it does yours.

[terrywilcox]

Gareth,As I mentioned earlier,we have met. I respect your opinion,but I am afraid you are alienating people on the board by your attitude.

Please bear in mind that I know where you are coming from,and I get no pleasure in saying what I have. Less arrogance please,there's a good chap.

[garethjk22]

Terry / All

Maybe I have an underlying aggressive tone, sorry it's my enthusiam. However, i would have thought a little light sarcasm and general making fun of myself would have been welcomed .... ? I'm not arrogant, just right! (joke people!)

To set the record straight, I have seen the contract and so am reasonably confident with what is in it.

GJK

[Monitorverticalspeed]

So i take it this is all wrong then?

http://www.jethros.i12.com/FLEETS/Listings/THOMSONFLY.htm

[holidaymax]

Monitorverticalspeed your source is not exactly the official guide to aircraft registrations. The only person I would believe in such a situation would be an "insider" not some rumours that are flying around.;)

[lez]

hi garethjk22

any idea wots been completed up at finningley and how things are progressing???

lez :)

[wawkrk]

Picked this up from the LBA spotters site:
An interesting article on BBC1 about Sheffield
Airport. Peel Holdings, who also own Finningley, during the last 2 years four operators have approached the airport about starting scheduled services and have been refused for various reasons by the airport. Peel have also submitted a planning application to SHORTEN the runway.
Apparently if Peel can prove the airfield is not profitable they have an option to buy the land for £1.00 at the end of 2007 for conversion to a business park, which no doubt would net them a fortune. Already some of the terminal has been converted to office space. A local pilot who has been campaigning to promote the airport has been given notice to remove his aircraft next January. They also interviewed local councillors who accused Peel of running down the airport so they can promote Finningley.

[EastCoaster]

Very interesting discussion. Anyone got any pics of the airport?

[terrywilcox]

Eastcoaster- try http://groups.yahoo.com/group/donnyairport/manage

[EastCoaster]

Thanks for that Terry, very impressive looking. Let's hope it takes off like it promises to (if you'll excuse the pun!!)

:} :ok:

[RPMcMurphy]

Hi GJK22
Now for the really exciting bit. The airfield will be open to private flights from 3rd Jan 2005. The airfield will at that stage be unlicensed and without RFFS. The airfield will have ATC cover however.

Just wondering what level of ATC cover will be in place then.
Ta

[niknak]

The word on the street that it will be a FISO service at Sheffield, not ATC service.

The Doncaster/Robin Hood ATZ was notamed as active from today (I think), active daylight hours only initially (that's from 10am to 2pm in Yorkshire :p ), callsign "Doncaster by eck Tower".

[RPMcMurphy]

I've been out of the scene for a while so I may be wrong, but I thought an airport had to be licensed in order to provide an AFISO service.

[ILS 119.5]

I think it will have to be licensed for any service even air/ground.
I've also heard the two atco's will be self training, and not providing a service, from january until the airport goes into full service in march and then providing full tower and approach procedural services.

[40 yearflyer]

Changing the subject 'how will the local population or the owners take to Flying Training Organisations wanting to 'muscle in on the facilities' and keep the ATC busy with their eternal circuits and ILS approaches not to mention the odd night flying? Or will the owners want them? There is a world of difference between the big shiny jets dropping in over Bawtry or Lindholme with one approach and the noisy pistons droning around for ever in the sky. I have a vested interest in the answer of course. Any airfield that will accept 'Flying Trainers' is in my book looking to the future and to refuse them is shortsighted. We all have to train somewhere and it is getting more and more difficult.

[HOODED]

I believe they are saying there will be no based flying club but they will accept private aircraft movements! What exactly this means is still to be seen but my guess is if you own a B200 or a C550 and are going to do one approach, land and pay parking/handling fees then you're ok. Time will tell but Peel have invested a lot of money here and it's primarily and Airport so don't expect it to be too freindly to your avearge PPL holder.

[niknak]

Not so Hooded.
There is a dedicated G/A building at the airport, next to the proposed FBO facility, which will handle all of the the non scheduled flights.
Whilst it's true that Peel seem to be only keen on one "Flying Training Organisation" being based at Robin Hood, they are encouraging as much G/A as capacity will permit, and make no secret of the fact that there may come a time when such movements may be severely restricted, but those who have made the commitment to establish and stay will have a unique opportunity.
Personally, I believe that that time is some time away, and those who get in now will be the ones who will reap the long term benefit.

As is often the case with UK businesses, it's a question of who has the balls to make a long term commitment - if this was the U.S., Peel would have been stampeded in the rush. :rolleyes:

[HOODED]

Thanks for clarifying that Niknak, I was told that there would be NO based flying club. If this is untrue then someone who went to a recent meeting with peel got the wrong end of the stick. I wonder if the future of Gamston is not too rosy now then? I know most local flying clubs/gliding clubs are very worried about future airspace expansion curtailing a lot of their activities. Time will tell but I think the place will be a success which will severely restrict private aviation in the future.

[terrywilcox]

I see light now. Many of us campaigners wondered about the motives of Lord Kirkham and Kevin MacDonald (of Polypipe),both of whom seriously funded opposition to Finningley.
I believe they are owners,or certainly have an interest in Gamston. Strangely they joined forces with Friends of the Earth,and others of that ilk. Self interest makes for odd bedfellows eh.

I just hope that Peel remember their friends and can I say enemies,in their future plans.

[flybe.com]

Terry - do you mean that you didn't know about their links with Gamston? They have ownership interests and aircraft based there. I too hope that Peel will remember their actions when they eventually want to move their aircraft to Finningley.

[terrywilcox]

Strong rumours re Virgin and an American airline interested in Finningley. Can anyone throw light on this please.

By the way,planes landing and taking off,from this Friday,testing lights etc,over 3 days.

[terrywilcox]

We have strong rumours that Virgin and an American airline are interested in flying from Finningley,Doncaster. Can anyone throw more light on this please. Also aircraft are landing and taking off from Finningley from this Friday,for 3 days,testing lights etc.

[no, no, no]

I presume you're talking Virgin Atlantic???

Would that really be a logical move for them? yes, they do have extra aircraft coming, but wouldn't they want somewhere which can sell from both ends, and it being a major airport/city etc? Why wouldn't they add to their MAN-Orlando service before Robin Hood Doncaster Sheffield somewhere-in-the-UK with many names airport?????

[terrywilcox]

I said it was a strong rumour,but it is a fact that people from Virgin were in talks with Peel 2 weeks ago.

Coming from London,yo may not know,but Yorkshire people generally do not like making the trek over the pennines. It may not look far on the map,but it can be an arduous journey.

[aeulad]

I really dislike the phrase 'strong rumour'. The word 'strong' is useless, and implies that that particular rumour is more likely than others, which is total rubbish. IF Virgin go into DSA, I will be VERY VERY surprised, likewise with AA.

Regards

Mike

[terrywilcox]

With all due respect,I regard the rumour as "strong",because of it's very reliable source. I appreciate what you say about the semantics,but I would not put,what I would call "unreliable" rumours on the site. It would be quite silly and unproductive.

[terrywilcox]

Just by the way. I did not say American Airlines (AA). I said "an" american airline.

[In trim]

As suggested by a previous post, VS only operate to 'large' airports which can support a route via a combination of Local business traffic, local Leisure traffic, and feed/connecting traffic.

The mix of these 3 will of course vary between airports and routes....MAN-Orlando will allways have a lot less connecting traffic than a LHR-Tokyo. However, I would be very surprised if they started operating to an airport where there is no connecting traffic altogether!!

If it did happen (say an Orlando service), how many services a week could it support?

[airhumberside]

Once or twice a week probably

[Buster the Bear]

How about a maintenance facility, acres of room?

http://whipsnade.co.uk/picturelibrary/jpeg150/br/brown_bear_120_wide.jpg

[terrywilcox]

800 acre site,with much adjacent land bought by Peel (the owners). Richard Branson made two visits to Finningley before Peel bought it,and had an interest in flying from there.

At least 5 million people within 1 hour,with excellent links to Mways,M1,M18,M62,A1M. East coast main line 4 miles away (Doncaster),with rail link practically to airport entrance. Plans for raiol link on site.

There is more,just ask.

[jabird]

He's always loved vertical integration, so GNER franchise + a base in the middle of the route - I would have thought the synergies were limited, but I would never say never, knowing how SRB's mind works.

But then again, by that logic, BHX would be much more likely, although I suppose they'd have problems getting those four engined heavies off the runway?

[airhumberside]

Doncaster is ripe for a maintenance facility but then Humberside gets one instead - I'm not complaining though :)

[Buster the Bear]

If Virgin Atlantic start scheduled trans-Atlantic services from Robin Hood, I will give up stealing sarnies from my visitors!

http://whipsnade.co.uk/picturelibrary/jpeg150/br/brown_bear_120_wide.jpg

[we_never_change]

An American airline, Continental perhaps?

As regards to Virgin, how about Virgin Express from & to Brussels. I understand that these are now part of the SN Brussels airline group.

WNC

[BombardierCR7]

Continental are looking for a new northern airport to operate to a US base from.... this is nothing new!!!...., best deal gets route.....LBA, NCL, LPL, DSA, MME, (and MAN for the 3xdaily to Newark) are in the bidding. I bet even Blackie will have a go..

As for Virgin ...is this not someone looking for "the" virgin in Doncaster?..sorry

[terrywilcox]

Bombardier, A matter of opinion is ok,but please,your tastless remarks about Doncaster,and in particular,our females,are not necessary or true. I have travelled widely in the UK,and have been a police officer. We are no different to any other town in the country. That is if you accept that all welsh people are not thieves,and Scotsmen are not mean. When did you last visit Doncaster ?

[Notsonew]

American Airline interested in Robin Hood?

I knew this would happen. Americans wanting to tour Robin Hood country will find themselves 40 miles North of Nottingham. Still, only a short coach ride. They could visit the Donny nightclubs and watch the natives dancing around their handbags! or take in the local dialect :- 'Turn reet at t' leets, go reet on and it's on yer reet' Yes I got that one once !

[DC10FAN]

I really hope that VS/CO/other do launch services from DSA. There is far too much Doncaster-bashing on this site. Fact is Manchester is not the hub of all life North of London and I suspect that many passengers using the services from MAN to the USA actually live in Yorkshire. Hence DSA would be more convenient for most of them. Regards connecting traffic; I doubt many passengers connect at MAN onto the VS service to Orlando hence imo the lack of connecting flights at DSA is not an issue. My money would go on a Continental service to Newark allowing many connections at that end; I'm sure there's demand and DSA has the longest runway in Yorkshire.

[gayrugbybloke]

From Hollywood to errr..Robin Hood, eh?!

Virgin on the ridiculous me thinks! Nice wind up though!!

VS are not even interested in expanding from the larhest UK airport outside London, i.e. Manchester, so I have no dount they wouldn't even know where Doncaster Robin Hood Sheffield South Yorkshire International thingy even is!

Perhaps you mean Virgin balloons?!

[Sliding member]

I believe the link road routing was decided a few weeks ago and will be to the north of Rossington joining Bawtry Road at Parrots Corner which will be nice given the amount of traffic at present in and out of Rosso. I understand this was not the facvoured route by locals, given the congestion alraedy on the junction and the fact that the new link will be through low lying ground and straight past nature areas, but they don't care:* .

[INKJET]

And watch the Barnsley lasses having a wazz stood up at the urinals...................and then there is all those bargins at the car boot sale and pirate DVD for movies that have not yet being made!! cheapest cigs and booze in Europe, and if your renting your auto mobile (to tour the historic sites and old mine working at cotton wood and manvers main) then make sure its a diesel can't beat red diesel at 22p a litre

Cheers

Burt

[Notsonew]

Terry Wilcox.
A doctor once told me when the 'leg pulling stops' then you should worry ! They are actually a sign of affection for the place admittedly mixed in with a few wanting to disparage the project.

Finningley has fantastic potential. As you say, an immediate catchment area of 5 million. (175,000 turned up for an RAF Battle of Britain day once) and the space available to improve already good road/rail links is something not usually available outside USA.

Those Airlines signing up now will get a 'good deal' in all senses of the phrase.

So, best of luck Robin Hood -you see- I already use the name in preference to the other handles. It has created a brand name that 'trips off the tongue'. Well done Peel Holdings.

[terrywilcox]

gayrugbybloke, I know the name is a mouthful,and an annoying joke to us. For whatever reason Branson IS interested. When he came here one of his statements was that it was an exciting prospect,having a "Blank sheet of paper" Whether it will actually happen,I have no idea. By the way,do you remember the little villages of Ringway,Stansted,Gatwick. Methinks Doncaster,with a population of 300.000 is a little larger. Finningley has the 5th.largest runway in the UK.

[garethjk22]

Re An American Carrier at DSA

First, can we please drop the name calling, just call it DSA in the same manner as every other airport is referred to.

OK, with regard to an American Airline at DSA, before you all scath at the Robin Hood link, what you all fail to forget are 3 very important facts:

1. Within a 1 hour dirve of the airport are over 400 US based companies ... lots of nice business traffic

2. The pilgrim fathers, founders of modern day America originated from about 2-3 miles from the Southern end of DSA's runway .. a major tourist attraction for the states (it is estimated several million Americans a year travel to Europe to research this history). THis also links strongly into the religious history of the US. here we have our inbound tourist traffic

3. The US remains one of the most popular destinations for UK holiday makers, or a transit point. Here we have out ourbound leisre.

So, is it any wonder that without a direct flight, the US managed to be the largest scheduled market from Yorkshire in 2003. Imagine the yield an airline could attract by offering a fligth direct from the region ...

[Porky Speedpig]

Not quite sure how it can be the 5th longest runway in the UK when 2 at LHR, 2 at MAN and 1 at LGW are all longer. Not to mention PIK etc.....

[terrywilcox]

Just to explain something to those people who don't really know the Doncaster area. The airport is 4 miles from Doncaster town,with excellent public transport. Some 8 miles from the airport is Pilgrim Father country (William Bradford,one time governor of the colony in New England) lived there,as did others. About 10 miles from the airport is the one time home of John Wesley,founder of Methodism. Methinks the americans may be interested.

Regarding the runway length,I am only quoting from people who know more than me. If I am wrong then I apologize.

It seems there is "some" interest in Doncaster Finningley. It has the 3rd. largest number of hits,after Manchester,and "will my travel go bust". I\'m not counting this thread,as no doubt the lead in is of interest in it\'s own right.

[ATNotts]

"An American carrier at DSA"

I don't doubt the facts regarding the potential interest by Americans in visiting South Yorkshire but unfortunately you have to face facts.

Americans are by and large very badly educated from a geographical standpoint. They know roughly a handful of places in the UK (London, Stratford upon Avon, Edinburgh, and at a push York). Ask them to put any of them on a map and they might get two out of four, assuming they know roughly where London is!

Given that US Travel Agents are probably no more worldly wise than the general population, how exactly is an airline going to get them to book customers to Doncaster ("is it near London?????!!!!").

I think you will find that BHX and MAN already have the same problem, with the majority of T/A traffic being UK originating.

It's a great idea, but I just don't buy it in the short term anyway.

[terrywilcox]

AT Notts,on the same theme. To an american,Doncaster is VERY close to London. 1 1/4 hours by train. We have had many messages from americans on the "finairweb" site expressing interest. Incidentally,Doncaster is signposted 75 miles south on the A1,not much less than halfway to London.

I would guess that our airport is pretty well know by now. The "Robin Hood" title certainly aroused some publicity,for whatever reason.

[terrywilcox]

Anyone interested in the Doncaster Finningley Airport (DSA),there is a link (no connection with Peel-owners of the airport). Just an independent forum,but you will find stats - http://www.finairweb.co.uk/welcome.htm

[garethjk22]

I totally agree that there is a problem in educating the Americans into knowning the geography. However, it is an opportunity, and when an American carrier is looking at the UK market, which if you beleive this forum it would appear at least 2 are at the moment, then when assessing potential UK points, surely you must agree Doncaster will rate highly.

For example, bristol, got the CO service on the back of the US based industry around. DSA has the same wealth of incumbent travel, but also has everything outlined above. BRS doesn't, at least not to the same extent.

When a US carrier looks at the UK, they look at DSA and see a tick in every box. The point here is not about how DSA, or BRS, or MAN, or LPL or any other airport is percieved with the American public,it is about how DSA rates in comparison with other UK airports that the airlines are considering ... after all the airlines know that if it is not london they are going to struggle with the i/b pax. My very waffly point here is that DSA has a higher chance than other UK regionals of attracting I/B pax because of it's unique heritage.

[symphonyangel]

The name is no more a mouthful than Leonardo da Vinci Rome Fuimincino Airport or Konrad Adenheur Cologne Bonn Airport, and with 27 destinations already announced in its first summer, it seems to be only helping raise the profile of the Doncaster Sheffield area by including the Robin Hood branding.

People will use probably use the location name (Doncaster Sheffield) as they do with Rome Fuimincino and Cologne Bonn, but the brand name (Robin Hood) adds value to the overseas market none the less.

In Cologne Bonn though, the name Bonn seems to be less used over time, e.g. easyjet rarely use it now. So over here it will be interesting to see which of Doncaster or Sheffield is more used by overseas travellers. Alternatively they could both be used as in Leeds Bradford, we'll have to wait and see.

I guess it might be fun to handle the first flight from Robin Hood Doncaster Sheffield Airport to Don Quixote Madrid Ciudad Real Airport, also due to be opening soon!

[terrywilcox]

sliding member,looks like a public inquiry over the route of the link road. Veryu great anger over choice of route. By the way,the runway IS being tested this weekend. Saw flights am today.

[INKJET]

I see its now listed on the met office TAF&METAR Northern section, it will be interesting to see how the traffic inter reacts with Manchester and Leeds traffic?

Cheers

Burt

[Monitorverticalspeed]

Anyone know the routes that Excel will be flying??

[terrywilcox]

The rumour re Virgin and an american airline is firming up folks.

As far as I know monitor,Excel are not flying from Doncaster. Just been on their web site and Doncaster is not listed. Are they part of TUI,or do you have other info.

[airhumberside]

Excel used to be owned by Libra but it is now owned by the owners of Air Atlanta and Islandflug, Avion. They still do flights for Libra though, who now own Helios

[terrywilcox]

Fair enough airhumberside,but I can find no info re excel flying from Finningley.

[terrywilcox]

One of the contributors on "Finairweb",has shown Excel as flying from Doncaster,but I have been on the Excel site,and Doncaster is not listed. Not yet anyway.

[airhumberside]

Looking at Libra's brochure they list no Doncaster Flights and it would most likely be (at least partly) for them any XLA charter flight

[P-T-Gamekeeper]

Just out of interest, does anybody know about the subsidence under the runway at Finningly.

Saw a report when doing some work for the airforce a while back, showing serious subsidence rings under the runway, and under the old gymnasium building.

This, I believe is all due to mining tunels under the airfield collapsing.

I wonder how this will be affected by heavy 747F's crunching in!!!

[we_never_change]

First movement occured over this weekend, a Beech 200 King Air calibrating various Navaids.

WNC

[terrywilcox]

P-T. Shouldn't be mining subsidence. We left a pillar in. I worked on the coal face,albeit more than 1/2 mile down,right up to airport. We just were not allowed. Finningley is not that fa fom pea bogs and wetlands.

[jetpipe john]

niknak,
a while ago you descibed Finningley as having FISO radar service and not ATC, I understand what you mean by ATC, but what's FISO?. Please try to keep it simple.

[Legs11]

A Flight Information Service Officer provides information and assistance to aircraft, not instructions or control.

[Squadgy]

JJ - CAP410B covers FISO operations at airfields. To complicate things slightly from Legs11's reply, FISOs can issue instructions to aircraft and vehicles on the manouvering area of an airfield, but only information to aircraft in flight of passed the hold of an active runway.

AFAIK Doncaster has never employed FISOs and are about to start full ATC operations (Tower/Appr) in Jan.

You can find CAP410B here :

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP410__PartB.pdf

In Niknak's previous post here was talking about Sheffield Airport (different place further South down the M1). This was full ATC, then FISO and is now an A/G service. FISOs however never provide any radar services.

[Monitorverticalspeed]

for those that are interested:-


http://www.airliners.net/open.file/737923/L/

[terrywilcox]

I understand there are now two air bridges at Finningley.

[GrahamK]

Very small terminal and apron it has to be said :ouch:

[HOODED]

Not that small really, it's the size of one of the hangars and is easilly extendable both in a Northerly and Southerly direction.The latter is the most likley from what I've seen of the place. It looks also from the picture like they have extended the runway at the northern end as where the eastern and western parallel taxyways meet look like what used to be the old runway end. Can anyone confirm the new declared distances?

[holidaymax]

For a new airport I think it looks great, see for yourselves!

http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=737923&WxsIERv=LQ%3D%3D&WdsYXMg=LQ%3D%3D&QtODMg=RG9uY2FzdGVyIC8gU2hlZmZpZWxkIC0gUm9iaW4gSG9vZCAoLSBGa W5uaW5nbGV5KShEU0EgLyBFR0NOKQ%3D%3D&ERDLTkt=VUsgLSBFbmdsYW5k&ktODMp=RGVjZW1iZXIgMTksIDIwMDQ%3D&BP=0&WNEb25u=QW5keSBNYXJ0aW4gLSBBaXJUZWFtSW1hZ2Vz&xsIERvdWdsY=&MgTUQtODMgKE=VGhlIFUuSydzIG5ld2VzdCBhaXJwb3J0IGlzIG5vdyByZWF sbHkgdGFraW5nIHNoYXBlLiBTaW5jZSBteSBsYXN0IHBob3RvZ3JhcGggdGF rZW4gaW4gTWF5LCB0aGUgdGVybWluYWwgaGFzIGxhcmdlbHkgYmVlbiBjb21 wbGV0ZWQsIHRoZSBtYWluIGFwcm9uIChyYW1wKSBoYXMgYmVlbiBmaW5pc2h lZCwgdGhlIGNhciBwYXJrcyBhcmUgZG93biBhbmQgcGFydGx5IG1hcmtlZCw gYW5kIHRoZSBydW53YXkgaGFzIGdvdCBpdHMgbWFya2luZ3MgYmFjayBhZ2F pbi4gU3RpbGwgc29tZSB3b3JrIHRvIGRvLCBidXQgb3BlbmluZyBkYXkgaXM gbm93IG9ubHkgYWJvdXQgZm91ciBtb250aHMgYXdheSE%3D&YXMgTUQtODMgKERD=MjY5NA%3D%3D&NEb25uZWxs=MjAwNC0xMi0yMA%3D%3D&ODJ9dvCE=&O89Dcjdg=&static=yes&sok=V0hFUkUgIChNQVRDSCAoYWlyY3JhZnQsYWlybGluZSxwbGFjZSxwaG90 b19kYXRlLGNvdW50cnkscmVtYXJrLHBob3RvZ3JhcGhlcixlbWFpbCx5ZWFy LHJlZyxhaXJjcmFmdF9nZW5lcmljLGNuLGNvZGUpIEFHQUlOU1QgKCcrInJv YmluIiArImhvb2QiICsiYWlycG9ydCInIElOIEJPT0xFQU4gTU9ERSkpICBP UkRFUiBCWSBwaG90b19pZCBERVND&photo_nr=1

[EastMids]

Check out my previous picture...

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/590155/L/

As far as "extending" the runway is concerned, they may have set down a small starter strip with a turning point, giving slightly more length for departures but not for landings as the newest pic clearly shows a displaced threshold. What surprised me is how much of the old hard-standings have been dug up - all the old Vulcan QRA pads besides the threshold have gone, as have quite a few other formerly hard areas.

Anyway, the ATZ gets established early next year, so more aerial pics are probably going to be harder to come by from now on.

Andy

[garethjk22]

Runway dimensoins are:

Physical dimensions: 2,891 m x 61 m (TORA length I beleive)

TODA: 3,181 m

Terminal. The terminal is slightly smaller than Liverpool but does not have the ponch points of Liverpool (there due to building around an old terminal). Also, the apron looks small as does the terminal, but bear in mind, DSA is an extremely large site, the oeprational areas are almost twice that of Liverpool (880 acres vs about 500 acres) and that will of course make everything look smaller ... also the runway is 35% wider than most UK runways (MAN, LHR are 46m I think) which again when you are used to looking at ariel photographs can distort your impression!

The starter strip is actually a strengthening of what was there initially but decommissioned. It is for take off length, but then the original 2741m is more than sufficient for landing.

[terrywilcox]

Jusy been told by a friend,that he saw an ad on tv last night,for hols from Doncaster,from 6th.Jan,2005. Can anyone confirm please.

[symphonyangel]

Can't be right Terry, first known flights are towards the end of April. If your friend can't recall the specifics of who and where to then i think he has misheard it.

[terrywilcox]

I tend to agree with you,but a second person has confirmed that he saw the ad. I have checked what sites I can and can find no mention. In any case they have training flights from very early Jan (training staff). Highly unlikely that it is true,but I know the people concerned would not DELIBERATELY lie to me.

[LBA]

Saw the advert - Pretty sure it said April.

[simonwa]

The advert definitely said from April 2005 at the bottom of the screen in small letters.

[TSR22]

Hi Guys!

JUst for your interest, I visited Finningley yesterday to see how things were progressing. There is lots of work outside the airfield such as the removal of foliage and the old main gate (in place are a roundabout and link road to the terminal). In addition there is some upgrading of the road to the west of the airfield. A noise barrier has been erected to the eastern edge of the airfield but there are still lots of places where the view is excellent.

I made my first flight from Finningley some years back (and I like airfield architecture - try looking at the Airfield Research Group if you are interested:8 ) so I fully support the airfield.

At least if you are nosey like me, you will soon be able to drive right onto the site via the link road and not have to beg the security guards for a pass!!!!
:E

[flybe.com]

I understand that Peel wanted to replace the entire main entrance, but after listening to the views of various interested parties, the original main gates will be preserved. The entrance has already been widened, but the gates will be left in situ as an historical reminder, nice touch that. :ok:

[timmcat]

Just spent a few hundred quid on some tickets from Doncaster to Alicante next summer.

Bit of a feelgood factor for once in buying flights!

[simonwa]

I see the airport's website is now up and running:

http://www.robinhoodairport.com/

28th April 2005 is the first flight!

[Indicating Full]

Sorry if its already been asked! There have been rumours for months at our local flying club that the airfield will be open with free landing fees and approaches to GA traffic to enable the controllers to get their tickets before it opens officially. Is this true and if so where can I get airfield info.

IF

[terrywilcox]

does anyone on the site remember Mary Wilcox. She worked at Finningley for 18 years,until the base closed.

[Charley]

IF,

You'll probably want to refer to AIC 108/2004 (Yellow 156) (http://www.ais.org.uk/aes/pubs/aip/pdf/aic/4Y156.PDF) for which you'll need to have login credentials for the AIS website.

I cannot vouch for whether or not the approaches are free but the contact details are on the AIC and I did hear similar rumours myself.

You'll also need the approach plates. As these have so far not been promulgated by AIRAC you will probably get these faxed to you when you get your PPR and briefing. Alternatively, if you are based at a large airfield, you may find that they have been made available to the Flight Planning office there. I am led to believe that this has occured at one nearby commercial airport with a couple of based FTO's. The IAP's consist of ILS/DME to 20 and NDB/DME to 02.

I'm not sure how many approaches EGCN will need to facilitate before they can apply for their licence, presumably the rumoured free approaches will not be courted after this time. However, the high winds in the area so far this week may have kept the number of movements down.

Best of luck. Let us know how you find the field if you get in there. ;)

[Jinkster]

Robin Hood bash coming soon?

Anyone up for it.

Jinkster

[Dash-7 lover]

What happened to the last new airport to open in the UK ie Sheffield City Airport...............Now that we'll soon have Robin Hood Doncaster Finningley Sheffield North of England and anywhere else we can think of.....airport???? No doubt the loco carriers will end up calling it Leeds-South!!

[terrywilcox]

"Dash-7 lover".

Must confess I don't see the point of your message.

1. Are you comparing Finningley to Sheffield City Airport.

2. The name of our "Doncaster" airport is of no consequence. It is now an old chestnut that has served it's time. It seems that both Robin Hood and Sheffield have been dropped from common usage (as expected).

Can you please explain your point,or points.

[Dash-7 lover]

Dear Terry,

My point was a humerous one? I was trying to make light of the fact that yet again we have another new airport within the UK that isn't that far from the last new airport to open in the UK (Sheffield City Airport). Obviously from a marketing point of view the original long name was to encompass and highlight surrounding towns and cities eg Nottingham/East Midlands Airport. I was having a friendly dig!! Im now waiting for Ozzy Osbourne/Wolverhampton/Tipton/Dudley International to open............good luck.

ps. If it's not called Robin Hood, Finningley or Doncaster/Sheffield
what will it be......?

[terrywilcox]

The correct title is still Robin Hood Airport Doncaster Sheffield. Can you believe it. We are in Yorkshire and 32 miles from Sheffield. Too long winded for general usage,even Thomsonfly refer to it as Doncaster Airport. That will do for me.

Terry

[jabird]

Dash-7,

Finningley and Sheffield City are chalk and cheese as far aircraft types go, and Sheffield was presumably too close to London to warrant an LCY service?

Didn't KLM have a go SZE to AMS? Does anyone know if they might have looked at DSA - possibly a switch from HUY - as there must be enough demand in the region for a feeder to somewhere, and AMS would be the logical starting point, especially as TOM haven't gone in there. There might also be some point to point with KLMs latest discounts.

Terry, do you know if Flybe have looked at DSA or SZE? There must be demand for EDI, GLA, BHD, etc, and even EXT?

[terrywilcox]

jabird,all I know is that flybe have looked at the Aberdeen - Norwich-Southampton route,swapping HUY for Doncaster. Monopoly for Eastern at the moment, with very high fares.

Many oilworkers live around Doncaster. I will be surprised if there is no Amsterdam route opened. Still waiting for news about Easyjet. The airport is open for business on 16th.March,and so far,earliest flight is 28th.April.

[symphonyangel]

The name Leonardo da Vinci Rome Fiumicino Airport hasn't done Fiumicino's airport any harm neither has Konrad Adenauer Cologne Bonn Airport's name done it any harm so don't worry about the word Sheffield being in your airports name. Credit it or not, Sheffield will mean something to someone overseas that Doncaster doesn't and therefore another visitor to fill up your planes, so its all adding to benefit the Doncastrians in one way or another. Good luck with the opening.

[terrywilcox]

"symphonyangel" . Point is the name is too long for general usage. Even the travel companies and advertisers are calling it Doncaster Airport,so it obviously does not matter about the Sheffield or Robin Hood tag. Thomsonfly went to Bournemouth without any name change so .......

[topjet330]

are there any departure and arrival plans relased yet, i want to see if these planes are coming near my house.

[holidaymax]

Try below for a rough guide to what charters are happening, or get hold of one of the many brochures in your local travel agents for detailed timings.

http://www.robinhoodairport.com/page_flight_timetable_28.html

For Thomsonfly flights just go onto the timetable on their website.

[terrywilcox]

Saw on the site about a week ago that some private flyers were planning a "bash" at Finningley. Anyone know when it will be.

[GK430]

Anyone know what the published runway TODA will be? Thanks

[terrywilcox]

The definitive answer to the TODA,you will find if you scroll back to a message by Gareth. About 3000 metres.

[jabird]

Terry,

Do you know the reason why Thomsonfly announced Amsterdam flights from DSA, but then didn't confirm this in their final programme, despite offering it as a destination from CVT and BOH? Was this down to slots / timings, or is there another explanation?

Would KLM be looking at this route, which would give Finningley a much needed feeder to other European and long haul destinations? Surely, of all possible airlines to offer a hub connection, they are in the strongest position to do so, although no doubt London has been discussed too, with all the usual slot / rail arguments.

Any more rumours from Flybe or Easy?

[terrywilcox]

Can't understand it myself jabird. The airport is open for business on 16th.March,but no flights until 28th.April.

I have heard nothing new,but closing date for Easyjet on 13 slots at Manchester is 31st.Jan.

Just amazed that Amsterdam is not featured,as I now understand it is a vital link.

A Peel boss told me years ago now that they wanted Finningley to become a hub airport. It certainly has the potential.

I just wonder if Manchester Airport Group had any input. Bournemouth is owned by them,as you probably know,and there certainly were dirty tricks played by Man during the campaign.

[Jinkster]

Any ideas when the open days for the airport will be?

Jinkster

[DarkDog]

I believe that SZE-AMS load factors were very good but the low capacity Fokker Props meant that the AMS slots were more valuable at BHX with higher capacity aircraft that SZE couldn't handle.

DSA would definitely value a link to AMS but the loco carriers rightly don't wanna know if you "unfortunately" don't make a connection at AMS because of their late arrival.
After all, remember - they aren't taking your "connection cash"

Maybe KL/SN/SK/AF/LH might take a look at DSA ???

[Jinkster]

I didnt realise there were as many South Yorkshire ppruners as there are.

Perhaps, a DSA bash would be appropriate.

Jinkster

[terrywilcox]

You probably know that Finningley was a very big RAF base,and proved a popular posting. Many ex RAF decided to settle here after finishing their service,including pilots navigators and other profs. I know many of them. Added to this,the re-opening of the airport is very popular with locals who proved this with massive support during the campaign. This is true even of people living very close to the runway. The local pubs were almost RAF pubs in culture. Residents and military always got on very well,and there were many marriages as a result lol.

[terrywilcox]

Please see new thread on Ryanair flights from Finningley. Will probably be merged shortly.

[holidaymax]

Two interesting things came out of a local t.v interview with David Ryall last night whilst they were reporting on the Ryanair flights.

1. Talks are ongoing with carriers for tansatlantic routes, but those routes will not open until 2006

2. The airlines involved in the talks are both West and East bound carriers. i.e not necessarily American or British carriers.

[airhumberside]

Could it be PIA transferring some services from MAN

[TSR22]

Hi Guys,

Visited Finningley yesterday during the afternoon. Happy to see that all of the runway lights were working and the tower was manned. There were a couple of light twins sitting on the tarmac and the place is really beginning to look like a real airfield again!

Great stuff..

The bad news for the historians is that one of the main gate posts has now been removed. At least the demolition of buildings has not spread too far!

Good viewing if you live near the old road that runs down the side of the airfield! :E :8

[terrywilcox]

Does anyone have more details re the meeting at Sheffield shortly. I understand 35 carriers are involved,including 10 locos

[holidaymax]

Here you go Terry.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/south_yorkshire/4218115.stm

[Caslance]

I think you'll find that it's 35 French regional airports and 10 lo-cost carriers, not 35 carriers including 10 lo-costs, Terry. :ok:

[airhumberside]

How well are the Charter and Scheduled flights doing in terms of advanced sales?

Thanks

[nclairportfan]

Thomsonfly are saying it's excellent from DSA.

[terrywilcox]

Thomsonfly have just announced that they are flying from Finningley - Faro, from 24th.March,2005

[Friio4]

Are you sure?
Cant find any reference anywhere to this.
They are starting Bournemouth/Faro on that day.
All Doncaster services start on 28/4 as far as I am aware.

[symphonyangel]

Thomsonfly website confirms - new flights commencement dates as follows : -

Doncaster Sheffield - Malaga, Palma, Faro, Alicante, Prague, Jersey , Dublin - Thursday, 28th April 2005

Doncaster Sheffield - Valencia, Paris, Pisa - Friday 20th May 2005

Doncaster Sheffield - Ibiza - Friday 10th June 2005

I would be careful with your source Terry, they have mislead you.

[ukwannabe]

On a non operational note.
Am starting at 'Doncaster International' in June for Thomsonfly/Britannia. I'll be looking for accomadation, and/or digs somewhere. The misses is staying South, and she will be giving me the minimum in pocket money. Or alternatively any one else in a similar situation, would like to consider a house share or such. The internet sites for renting around here are next to useless...or so I've found.
Apologies, but no spell checker.

[terrywilcox]

I am registered with Thomsonfly,and get regular email updates on offers etc.
Got one yesterday,and it clearly states flying to Faro Portugal from Doncaster,Coventry and Bournemouth on 24th.March.
I will try to book a flight to verify.

ukwannabe, I live just 2 miles from airport and will try to assist. Just give me some details on ur budget etc. Cannot promise,but I am pretty confident I can find something. I am purely unprofessional re housing,so nothing in it for me.

[Bundanoon]

UKWannabe,

Best place to find information on renting can be found in the local rag which is the Doncaster Free Press.

Don't quote me on this but it's published weekly usually on a Thursday and costs 50p.

Any other info you require on SDA then let me know,

Airport website : www.robinhoodairport.com

Cheers, Bundanoon :ok:

[EastCoaster]

Like UKWannaBe, I too will be starting @ DSA shortly, and will be looking for accomodation for one initially, eventually two (plus a mut). Haven't been able to find much info so far re what's available in the area, nor what sort of rent would be considered the norm. Any info/help would be gratefully appreciated. Please PM me if anything at all useful becomes available. Thanks in advance.

P.S. Do any of the local publications have web addresses?

[lakeside84]

To avoid any confusion, TOM's 11 low cost destinations from DSA are, Alicante, Dublin, Faro, Ibiza, Jersey, Malaga, Palma, Paris CDG, Pisa, Prague & Valencia.

Add these to the charter destinations; DSA will currently serve 26 destinations in its first year of operation. Not bad eh?!

Bet Humberside are quaking in their boots.

[Hotel Uniform Yankee]

Humberside is getting all it deserves, NOTHING. The management spent years turning away Low Cost airlines. Now they are begging them to operate from HUY, quite rightly they are all declining. Ryan Air published today they WILL NOT be operating from HUY. But will operate from 10 new airports.

[airhumberside]

Looking in the Sunset(part of Thomas Cook group) winter 2005/06 brochure it lists no flights from DSA. Will they be back there in 2006 or have they already turned their back on the airport?

[holidaymax]

airhumberside you seem to post quite a lot and reckon you know a thing or two about the industry...................well what happens in winter?

The holiday trade takes a dip as not as many people take their holidays at that time of year, consequently Thomas Cook will not be flying during the winter at DSA.

They will however be back in Summer 2006 with an even bigger summer programme.

[airhumberside]

The reason I asked was because I do not know of many airports completely dropped by one of the major tour operators in winter. I am aware they see reductions but not normally no flights at all.

What will their new destinations be for Summer 2006?

[holidaymax]

TCX will fly to only Turkey, Tunisia and share on Ibiza and Gran Canaria thats hardly a major tour operator.

We all know that Thomson are the main tour operator at DSA and it reflects in the fact that they will be running charters in the winter.

As for next year Florida is almost certain with Thomson, and Lanzarote and Fuertaventura are on the cards. As always nothing is set in stone until it is officially announced later this year.

We know you love HUY but don't try to put down DSA before it has even opened.

[airhumberside]

I called Thomas Cook a major tour operator because they are one of the UK's biggest tour operators. I wasnt refering to how big their range of flights at DSA was

Florida flights are good news - its not like they would work from HUY or LBA

[HOODED]

Why would Florida not work from LBA/HUY? If you mean from LBA/HUYs runways then maybe you have a point. If you are talking bums on seats from the local cathment areas then LBA would win hands down. I believe LBA has already had some Florida flights operated by BY 767s in the past albeit not direct due runway constraints but with a favourable wind off 14 direct would be possible they do it from NCL with a whole 120ft more TORA. DSA will most likely get a Florida as at the moment all Yorkshire to Florida pax have to go from MAN and DSA will be easier to get to for the majority of Yorkies.

[airhumberside]

I was refering to runway length

[aeulad]

Thomson Holidays operated non-stop flights from both LBA and HUY to Orlando and the Dominican Republic a few years back. Runway length at HUY or LBA is not a problem. HUY was actually the most successful out of LBA, MME and NWI for the several-per-season Florida flights.

Florida would only work from DSA. HUY or LBA at a push fortnightly.

Flybe are currently examining HUY and DSA, but I have it officially that they are unsure as yet as to which airport will offer the greatest potential. They WILL operate from either HUY or DSA.

Regards

Mike

[airhumberside]

How often did these Orlando/Dominican Republic flights operate and why did they stop?

When are BE likely to decide which airport to use. They are HUY's best chance, in my opinion of gettting a low cost airline

[aeulad]

I think it was in either 1997 or 1998 that the Florida and Dom rep flights operated. HUY got about 4 or 5 departures over the summer season. 767 a/c.

BE will decide where to go after they have established Norwich and Southend operations. They are very aware of the fact that their network is lacking on the East Coast from NCL down to NWI.
There are more route options from HUY, however, DSA would offer more traffic to the likes of EDI, GLA and BHD. I would'nt expect any announcements in time for the summer. POSSIBLY something for winter 05/06, but more likely summer 2006.

Regards

Mike

[Bundanoon]

Some of you asked for website addresses for the local rags so here goes :

www.propertiestoday.co.uk

www.doncastertoday.co.uk

Cheers Bundanoon :ok:

[terrywilcox]

Does anyone know what time this a/c will arrive (approx will do). Also on another site,NOT official I read that the airport will NOT be ready. Anyone any info,as last time I heard that contractors were well ahead of schedule

[airhumberside]

If the airport is not ready, which is unlikely will the flights be moved elsewhere or cancelled all together?

[terrywilcox]

The truth is,it is the retail outlets thay MAY not be ready. All the flights to and from Finningley will be as advertised,from 28th.April,2005

Also learned that the fire station will be on red alert from 6am 01.03.05. It is thought,and only thought,that the a/c will not arrive before 9am. Any more accurate info wouldf be very welcome.

[squibbler]

Don't know about the Airport being ready on time but the Radar service from Liverpool definately WONT be!!

[lez]

a 737 thomsonfly G-THOA has been at finningley today,looks like your sources where right terry..the plane came about 06.45am this morning.

[symphonyangel]

The Thomsonfly aircraft was part of the CAA certification process and was primarily to test out the emergency services. The first commercial flights are on April 28th.

[terrywilcox]

sqibbler, whether the radar is ready or not at Liverpool,will not affect the Finningley flights.

[lez]

I thought waddington radar head was controlling finningleys airspace???

[ILS 119.5]

sqibbler, whether the radar is ready or not at Liverpool,will not affect the Finningley flights.

So who will vector the inbounds onto the ILS and provide radar services outside CAS?

[Friio4]

He didnt say it would affect Doncaster flights.
It will be a procedural service provided at Doncaster when radar is not available.
The only "airspace" Doncaster has is an ATZ.
Waddingtons primary and Scamptons secondary will be used at Liverpool to provide radar.

[ILS 119.5]

I think you will find that certain operators will not accept any less than a RAS outside CAS. I certainly wouldn't. I think that you will also find that certain smaller operators such as Eastern Airways cannot accept anything less than a RAS outside CAS, so I'm certain that any jet a/c operator will only accept a minimum of a RAS outside CAS. Therefore if there is nobody providing a RAS then inbounds will be affected. possibly Waddington could provide a RAS, but sounds a bit too much if an a/c is carrying out a procedural approach and then given avoiding action to break off and then re position.

[terrywilcox]

Just want to say "HELLO" to mr.n mrs Ridley. Duggie spoke t me n gave me ur names. can't find the bit of paper. My email address [email protected]

Please come to our nest meeting 1st Wed in month 8pm at airp[ort . Sorry moderator.

[lez]

are you drunk my friend lol...:p

[niknak]

More nonsense and bollox from ILS.

If a radar service isn't available, a procedural approach control service is provided at Doncaster/Finningly, regardless of the type of radar service in the FIR any particular airline would like to receive, the landing interval may increase, but no one is going to divert because of it.

By the way, Eastern's minimum requirement is a RIS, not RAS.

[bigflesh2005]

Having been a long time visitor to Pprune, I thought it about time I got registered!

I have a question re DCA:

I am keen to understand the likley flight routings for IB & OB aircraft to/from DCA. I will try to explain with my somewhat limited/general understanding of ATC, however I understand that departing ad arriving a/c are usually vectored to the nearest reporting points in the area before hand off to area ATC/National ATC or indeed approach control.

In Doncaster/Sheffields case....

1. Would a southerly arrival routing Daventry to Trent beacons be asked to fly direct DCA on leaving Trent?

3. Would an easterly arr. routing under the control of London ATC to Ottringham and Goles, be allowed direct DCA from Goles?

4. Would a westerly/Northerly arrival routing Deans Cross to Pole Hill/Upton be allowed a Direct to 8 mile final from POL or Upton?

If not, what would be classed as a standard routing? (I understand SID's and STAR's are not yet in place)

and would any of the above become routine/business as usual?

Thanks in advance!

[jetpipe john]

Bigflesh,
I wish yo point out to you, that Doncaster Sheffield Airport ( FINNINGLEY ) is DSA not DCA.
However apart from the small error you have made, you seem to know what you are talking about, looking forward to constructive issues from you.

[jabird]

In Doncaster/Sheffields case....

1. Would a southerly arrival routing Daventry to Trent beacons be asked to fly direct DCA on leaving Trent?

Does this mean more for the nimbys round here to start complaining about from 28th April? After all, the planes will be blue and marked Thomsonfly all over them? Leicestershire CC are sticking their oar in on the CVT inquiry (despite just one complaint going to the inspectorate from within their boundaries). Will this have more people in these areas mistaking DSA traffic for CVT, just like they already mistake much of BHX traffic as going into CVT. I know the person who bought our old house in Leamington seems to think Emirates fly into CVT - I wish ;-)

BTW, how much shareholding in NEMA do LCC have?

And yes, DCA = Washington Reagan National, I think they'd have difficulty sending anything too far east due to local regs restricting destinations served!

[almost professional]

LCC have no stake in NEMA-we are a wholly owned subsidary of MAG group, though quite rightly I believe LCC should have a say in any inquiry over cov traffic-many of the complaints aimed at NEMA from south of leicester can be placed at the door of Cov inbounds-now being vectored over parts of SW leics that never had that level of traffic before

[DONNYRADAR]

MAN,LPL and LBA inbounds from AMS,etc fly over Doncaster routing via OTBED and GOLES,presumably DSA traffic from this direction will route similarly.Traffic from Spain etc into HUY comes in from the west,i believe from STOCK instead of from TNT,again will DSA traffic come in this way as a direct from TNT takes them outside controlled airspace does it not.Also will use be made of the GAMSTON VOR it's only just to the south.Will there be SIDs and STARs as noise abatement will be a big issue around the airport.Finally if the radar controller is situated at LPL,will there
be a transmitter at DSA to relay his instructions,ie will i be able to pick him up on my scanner ? We will of course get the answers to these questions and more when the flights actually start.

[DONNYRADAR]

i heard a rumour that some of the first flights have been cancelled and aircraft and/or pax moved to NEMA and MAN and in one instance LGW (!),anyone else heard anything ?

[jabird]

DonnyR,

Can you elaborate? I was wanting to book down to AGP on the first day.

AP,

"LCC have no stake in NEMA-we are a wholly owned subsidary of MAG group"

So no councils have any stake in NEMA now, except those in & around MAN which own MAG?

"though quite rightly I believe LCC should have a say in any inquiry"

Having a say is fine, if there are significant volumes of complaints from people living close by. So far, just one household has written in to the CVT IPF inquiry from Leicestershire. This is hardly a mandate to spend £000s of LCC tax payers' money on legal fees to represent this person.

[squibbler]

Inbound / Outbound routings are not yet finalised, they will be published shortly.

DSA is situated in Class G airspace with only an ATZ so all inbounds will have to leave CAS to get there. Also, no CAS = no SID's. There will be standard Airways Joining Agreements with Manchester ACC.

DONNYRADAR....
Finally if the radar controller is situated at LPL,will there
be a transmitter at DSA to relay his instructions,ie will i be able to pick him up on my scanner
:D Ha ha ha, of course there will be - never fear your ears will hear.........:}