Air Wales and RAF Valley

[FEBA]

Question
Are Air Wales operating into Valley. If not is there still potential and are the WDA still involved?

[sugarbird]

Air wales are not operating into RAF Valley on a scheduled basis.
There is, we're told, "a latent demand" for passenger services from North west wales to places like Cardiff. Bert the local MP is trying to drum up support for a service to London - would beat the train surely
The WDA are possibly still involved but likely hiding behind several layers.

and why are you asking?

[MAN777]

I would have thought EU Jet would be an ideal airline to use Valley, a route here would effectively tie two sea ferry ports together, give North Wales folk (and irish via ferry) access to the South East of England, Eurostar, and the rest of EU Jets route network.

Just a thought, any comments.

[FEBA]

I heard that this was a fantastic opportunity to get regional air travel going in Wales. It would also vindicate the Hop idea, yet it all seems to have gone quiet.
FEBA

[WHBM]

The fascination with a service connecting North and South Wales has gone on for any years, mainly by idealistic politicians who do not realise there is virtually no demand for such a service.

There was a public-money supported coach service. A complete failure.

There was a public-money supported railway service (which inevitably had to go round by Shrewsbury and Newport). A complete failure.

Someone attempted an air service a long while ago with a light type. The same result.

And if there was to be such a service, shouldn't it serve the largest town in North Wales, which is Wrexham. And that's a long, long way from Valley.

[skyrabbit]

I would tend to agree with some of the comments made by WHBM, however times have changed and since devolution and the establishment of a Welsh assembly (which I think is a complete waste of public funds) a greater demand has been created for links between Cardiff and the Welsh regions.

Due to the topography of the Principality surface transport links are poor, which makes air transport an attractive proposition.

Whilst RAF Valley has first class facilities, such as radar, ILS, fire cover etc.....it is situated on the far North West corner of Anglesey which is very sparsely populated.

If a North - South link were to work then I think Hawarden on the Cheshire border would be the obvious choice as North East Wales is the most populous region of Wales after the South East. Hawarden too has first class facilities and has excellent road links to the rest of North Wales and the North West of England.

Rabbs :)

[TwinAisle]

Whilst I normally agree 110% with Rabbit (he's got a better right hook than me!), I have to take a little issue...

I think he's right about Valley. There just aren't enough people at the North end of that route, and the only reason to go to Valley for the bulk of people will be to catch the ferry to Ireland. And if you're going to Irleland, why not use Air Wales direct from Cardiff in fraction of the time (and with great service I should add!)

Again, Rabbit is, I think, correct in saying that the bulk of the pax on this route will be NW Wales AMs, and there aren't many, they are a waste of money, and they won't make for a viable route.

Now the difference.... If Chester-Cardiff would be such a great idea, why not do it direct to Liverpool? AW didn't get this quite right last time; but it has to make sense to connect two proper airports rather than a proper airport and a factory, especially when that factory is owned by people who don't want commercial traffic....

TA

[skyrabbit]

Actually TA......Hawarden is far more convenient for North Wales than LPL as it is located on the A55 trunk road which runs from one end of North Wales to the other....ie from the border at Chester all the way to Holyhead. LPL, while not geographically far from North Wales is not so handy as a journey to this airport involves either a trip up the Wirral to one of the Mersey tunnels and through Liverpool City Centre or along the M56 to Runcorn and over the bridge. Journey time by road Wrexham to Hawarden 20 mins, Wxm to LPL at least 1 hour.

Also.....if you park at LPL, what are the chances of your car still being there on your return? :ooh:

[TwinAisle]

Happy to be corrected.... Rabbit's knowledge of that part of the world is much better than mine! Perhaps it may work after all, if Airbus let you in.

Re: LPL - bet the car will be there. Radio and wheels, not so sure about! :}

TA

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

But if you've already driven from say Caernarfon to Wrexham why don't you then just motor on down the A5 round the Shrewsbury bypass and onto the M54, M5, M4 to Cardiff? Its dual carriageway/motorway all the way from Wrexham/Hawarden.

By the time you park, check in, clear security, wait for the 20min delayed inbound, taxi, fly, taxi in, deplane, wait for luggage and then clear the terminal and grab a taxi you will have save all of half an hour at best. And you won't have your car with you.

And you've introduced the risk of an aircraft going tech or diverting. And you've spent more money on flying than you would have on petrol. And they probably only offer two rotations a day so you have little flexibility in what time you go back up North. And it will be a light turboprop and some people don't like flying in those. And you can't use your phone.

The only people interested in this service are QANGO and Assembly 'members' who don't like the long well expensed drive to 'work'. Who the hell else in North Wales wants or needs to go to Cardiff and Swansea on any kind of regular basis?!?

A Welsh domestic service is a lovely notion that doesn't stand up to proper scrutiny. On a wet wednesday in February I gaurantee there wouldn't be a single pax. Maybe it will work in the decades ahead as the new class of diesel twins change the economics of Air Taxis. Thats probably the future - not a scheduled airline service.

Cheers

WWW

[FEBA]

This thread seems to appeal to a limited few although many have read it. From what I read, most of you support the notion of regional air travel, so why has it all died down. Is this to remove creditable alternative to rail? What is the near airfield in Wales to wrexham?
FEBA

[TwinAisle]

FEBA - the nearest field to Wrexham is Hawarden, the Airbus UK site. As Rabbit said, it's right on the A55, the main artery connecting right across North Wales.

WWW - good points. Particularly:

Who the hell else in North Wales wants or needs to go to Cardiff and Swansea on any kind of regular basis?!?

Given that it is currently very tough to do this currently (change at Crewe by train, long drive down the motorway) and the lack of impetus to improve the current situation - it tends to suggest that WWW is correct that no-one will use it in serious numbers. I always think that North Wales and South Wales feel like two very distinct areas, is there much need to travel between them?

TA

[PPRuNe Pop]

Don't knock Liverpool!

Parking is a problem everywhere - I know - I had a set of alloys nicked off my car by the time I got back to LTN one time.

But..........each service that has operated out of CWL to Harwarden or LPL were short lived. The routes are not viable. Never have been. Never will be. The ideas are always good, but to whom? They were never supported. (I know that too - to my cost!)